Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 ... Have you read " The Butterfly Garden " by Chip St. Clair? It's a memoir of abuse...physical for sure, but also mental. It might be interesting to you, if that's the stuff you're reading now. He's also gone on to work as an advocate for abused children and to try to step up awareness/reporting of it. He lives in my state (Michigan) and currently...the state has mandated reporter laws but NO requirement that mandated reporters get any kind of training in recognizing child abuse OR in how/when to report. Crazy, no? Chip is working to make that training required. It's pretty awesome work. Ninera > > Subject: Re: stalking bpd-ers > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 12:22 PM > I totally agree with everything > you've said here,Annie.I'd also bet that " Cluster B " has > multiple causes--probably even an unfortunate sequence of > genetic/biological/physical events that result in an > individual being " born that way " . > >     I've been reading case after case > of child abuse/neglect--and yes,they are hard to read--but > what I am seeing is that far from me and my own case being > an aberation that made little sense,I am part of a > widespread societal problem that has its own tragic > reasons--and that only when we as a society wake up to the > fact that this is happening and why and what allows it to > continue,can we ever come up with solutions.Extreme child > abuse cases that end in the death of the child tend to be > reported in a piecemeal,sensationalistic fashion in the > media like they're some sort of one-off horror show--the > reality is that they are not; they are happening all the > time,every day.As are the cases of children who are enduring > horrors at home that never make the news because the child > survives.We need something of a Marshall Plan for abused > children,which we don't have just now,because the system as > it is currently is not working. > >       Funny thing is,I > started out in therapy a few months ago presenting with > severe Depersonalization Disorder as just one of the > problems that was plaguing me and in the past month since > I've been reading these cases and taking it all in as a > reality construct (which also comprises MY reality) rather > than as some incomprehensible evil that swoops down > periodically like a pox on isolated children that can't be > prevented,my symptoms of Depersonalization are *gone*.It's > thought to be usually a chronic disorder,but it has been > weeks now that I haven't felt depersonalized at all,like it > has lifted.I think a big part of what caused it in the first > place was finding myself in the surreal situation of me > knowing what was real (really happening) and everyone else > around me being the ones who were in denial of REALITY and > their being unreal about it making *me* feel unreal. > >       Child abuse is a > real,pervasive phenomenon and denial in its many forms isn't > going to make it go away. > >        > > > > > > Really, really well put. Your explanation RE why > society/culture/the neighbors/teachers can be invalidating > to the child victims of abuse makes sense to me. > > > > And RE survival, to me, the fact that those of us who > post here are not either dead or criminals is not just a > blessing, it also has a lot to say about individual > differences: the ability to survive abusive parenting and > other adversities is very likely inherent to the > individual. > > > > What I mean by this is that some individuals must be > born with more resilience and without the handicap of > specific temperamental factors (hyper-emotional-sensitivity) > or brain dysfunction (perhaps the parts of the brain that > regulate incoming and outgoing emotion just stop developing > at a certain early point) that allows that particular > individual to overcome an adverse, invalidating, > life-threatening or toxic growing-up period and survive it > without becoming destructive and toxic themselves. We > survivors sustain damage to some degree for sure (some of > the damage can be life-altering) but we all survived, *and > without developing Cluster B disorders.*   > > > > The more personal stories I read posted by those who > suffered great abuse and neglect in childhood (some at the > hands of Cluster B parents) without " turning into " Cluster > Bs themselves, validates that theory for me. > > > > That, plus reading the personal stories of bewildered > and heart-broken parents whose small child is evidencing > bizarrely extreme, hostile, toxic (Cluster behaviors for > no discernable reason, particularly when these parents have > other children who are just regular happy and normal > kids. (Such was the case with my own mother, the only > one of three sibs with a pd, and the only one in her rather > boringly normal extended family with a pd.) > > > > It just seems so clear to me that it has to be > something inherent to the individual, something they are > born with or acquire in some as-yet unknown way (like > in-utero exposure to chemicals, hormones, antibodies or > bacteria, or some recessive genetic program that shuts down > the development of oxytocin receptors, or some kind of > traumatic brain injury that goes unrecognized either before, > during, or after birth, during the child's pre-verbal stage > of development.) > > > > Only continuing research will be able to figure out > why Cluster B pds happen, and I'm now betting there is more > than one cause, and that in at least some cases, a person is > simply " born that way. " > > > > -Annie > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thank you,Annie There are people in the child protection/child welfare field who are working on programs that do exactly what you mentioned,that engage the greater community and empower them to be involved,or as you said " nosy " --and there are people doing studies as to what does work and there are initiatives that *do* reduce the rate of incidence.It certainly isn't all hopeless--there are definitely solutions; it's more a matter of getting the whole of a society on board and making prevention/intervention more of a priority. > > , I think that is just wonderful that your depersonalization symptoms are gone! That is just freaking great! It really is so validating and healing to take in the knowledge that " its not just me " although it is genuinely tragic that severe child abuse is so pervasive in our society. You're right, we only hear about the most over-the-top severe cases in the news, but those are just the tiny tip of a gigantic iceberg, I'm afraid. > > I think what its going to take is for more neighbors to decide that they are willing to be " nosy. " We're such a fiercely freedom-loving, privacy-loving and individual-rights-defending society, and that's really good, but only to the point where freedom and privacy are not used to commit crimes such as child abuse. Allowing child abuse go deliberately ignored and unreported out of a feeling that " That's not my business " is part of the problem. > > I think things won't change until most people feel that " If a child is being systematically brutalized, tortured, raped or neglected in my neighborhood, it IS my business. " > > -Annie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Thanks for the recommendation Ninera,I'll put that on my to-read list That's the next stage of my " exposure therapy " ,to move on to what is being done/can be done about the problem.This one sounds like a must read! Definitely awesome work--the lack of training doesn't surprise me--the lack of microinformation or directing information along with child welfare systems that vary widely from state to state is a common theme I'm discovering.There's a whole lot of craziness going on and it's not all coming from the ones who are actually doing the abusing... > > ... > > Have you read " The Butterfly Garden " by Chip St. Clair? It's a memoir of abuse...physical for sure, but also mental. It might be interesting to you, if that's the stuff you're reading now. He's also gone on to work as an advocate for abused children and to try to step up awareness/reporting of it. He lives in my state (Michigan) and currently...the state has mandated reporter laws but NO requirement that mandated reporters get any kind of training in recognizing child abuse OR in how/when to report. Crazy, no? Chip is working to make that training required. It's pretty awesome work. > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 , I'm not sure where the post is that your depersonalization symptoms are gone but I saw Annie respond downthread - that is AWESOME. Very happy for you. > > > > , I think that is just wonderful that your depersonalization symptoms are gone! That is just freaking great! It really is so validating and healing to take in the knowledge that " its not just me " although it is genuinely tragic that severe child abuse is so pervasive in our society. You're right, we only hear about the most over-the-top severe cases in the news, but those are just the tiny tip of a gigantic iceberg, I'm afraid. > > > > I think what its going to take is for more neighbors to decide that they are willing to be " nosy. " We're such a fiercely freedom-loving, privacy-loving and individual-rights-defending society, and that's really good, but only to the point where freedom and privacy are not used to commit crimes such as child abuse. Allowing child abuse go deliberately ignored and unreported out of a feeling that " That's not my business " is part of the problem. > > > > I think things won't change until most people feel that " If a child is being systematically brutalized, tortured, raped or neglected in my neighborhood, it IS my business. " > > > > -Annie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 , what can I say - it means more than I can say to hear another person say what you are saying. It's actually been very hard for me to find anyone who understands or acknowledges that reality, even in therapy. Like you say we end up being solitary truth-bearers. Much more I'd like to respond to - I will add more later once my verbal brain kicks into a high gear. > > > > Thanks , crazy after all these years but yes it really helps to hear you say it was " wrong " . I guess I felt like the whole world around me sanctioned it at the time and I was the only one who thought it was wrong. Oh yes the guidance counselor was useless - I went specifically for help with the bullying. I also spoke to more than one of my teachers who also were willing to do nothing other than change where I sat which I was pathetically grateful for. That Nietzsche quote always gives me a chill. I stared in two directions down into the abyss and up to God. Without my faith which developed spontaneously when I was pre-school age - nada did not encourage it - I'm not sure what would have happened very likely suicide. > > > > You know I often think about what a miracle it is that all of us are here on this board. Most of us growing up with nowhere to turn raised by at least one crazy parent, no way out. No buffer or protection against the outer world and inner family world of dysfunction. Really I think we should give ourselves credit every day that we aren't criminals or dead. There's a cheery thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 You're welcome. One of the craziest things to me...at least where I live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of my college roommates works for such an organization and we had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* be, thus the training. So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools and other facilities don't take advantage of that. Ninera > > Subject: Re: stalking bpd-ers > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 1:47 AM > Thanks for the recommendation > Ninera,I'll put that on my to-read list That's the next > stage of my " exposure therapy " ,to move on to what is being > done/can be done about the problem.This one sounds like a > must read! Definitely awesome work--the lack of training > doesn't surprise me--the lack of microinformation or > directing information along with child welfare systems that > vary widely from state to state is a common theme I'm > discovering.There's a whole lot of craziness going on and > it's not all coming from the ones who are actually doing the > abusing... > >    > > > > > > ... > > > > Have you read " The Butterfly Garden " by Chip St. > Clair? It's a memoir of abuse...physical for sure, but > also mental. It might be interesting to you, if that's > the stuff you're reading now. He's also gone on to > work as an advocate for abused children and to try to step > up awareness/reporting of it. He lives in my state > (Michigan) and currently...the state has mandated reporter > laws but NO requirement that mandated reporters get any kind > of training in recognizing child abuse OR in how/when to > report. Crazy, no? Chip is working to make that > training required. It's pretty awesome work. > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > help at @... > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > Respond ON THE > > > GROUP. > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > Eggshells, " call > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > also refer to > > > “Understanding the Borderline > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > (Roth) which you can > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > community! > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > Community > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thank you, I'm very grateful to have found something that worked--which really is the validation of reality as I see it and know it,something so seemingly simple yet so hard to find--I'll probably experience symptoms under big stress but not feeling like that most of the time is like the difference between night and day. > > , I'm not sure where the post is that your depersonalization symptoms are gone but I saw Annie respond downthread - that is AWESOME. Very happy for you. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 ,I'm just so glad this has been helpful to you.I do understand how it feels to be bullied--bullying is bullying--and although I did fight back when I could,I was also badly bullied by both nada and fada; by the teacher and the principal; by the boys who raped me before that.It's all about power and the misuse of power--and I know from my own experience that people in groups can behave VERY badly indeed,often in ways they wouldn't do on their own.One person being ganged up on is always wrong and should never be allowed or sanctioned because it just feeds off of itself.The only exception I can think of is a group of people banding together/using strength in numbers to escort a protesting dangerous criminal to the nearest jail/brig/stockade etc. But in your case,as in mine,the bullies were a band of cowards behaving badly--and they should have been stopped. > > , what can I say - it means more than I can say to hear another person say what you are saying. It's actually been very hard for me to find anyone who understands or acknowledges that reality, even in therapy. Like you say we end up being solitary truth-bearers. > > Much more I'd like to respond to - I will add more later once my verbal brain kicks into a high gear. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Ninera,first of all that's great that you and your friend organized a training session for nannies--yes they *should* be mandated reporters since they're in a very good position to see abuse if it happens. It sounds like the state of Michigan passed a mandated reporting law as a " feel good measure " /so many words on paper but nobody with the authority to enforce it by having it actually mean something in real terms is doing so? Can a mandated reporter be held liable for failing to report? Another question,out of curiosity,do you know if any of these organizations have tried to form some kind of liason/alliance with local PTA groups? Do you know what kind of outreach/marketing of their services they do? I can see where private entities like preschools/schools or daycares wouldn't want to touch something like that with a ten foot pole,having their employees trained to report so that they then have no real excuse if they don't: money--they wouldn't want to alienate their paying costumers...money does weird weird things to peoples' priorities...but in the case of public schools,why are they not inviting these organizations in to enable the law to be truly enforced? Could it be that they don't want the hassle/nobody wants to be the fall guy if something goes wrong/a victim slips through the cracks? Just conjecturing but it's good to know there are people like Chip St Clair and these orgs ( and you and your friend playing your part!) trying to get something DONE. I have alot to learn about this whole thing.Thank you for sharing your thoughts/perspective/experience > > You're welcome. > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of my college roommates works for such an organization and we had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* be, thus the training. > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > Ninera > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > > help at @ > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > > Respond ON THE > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > Eggshells, " call > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > > also refer to > > > >  " Understanding the Borderline > > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > > (Roth) which you can > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > > community! > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > > Community > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 You are exactly right...and that story is so sad. I was a foster parent and a mandatory reporter. I have only reported 2 people to CPS in my entire life. One, I had to go to court over and the other was the foster parent who originally had my daughter. They placed her with me after my complaint and as it turned out, I was not the only one who had made a complaint against them but they apparently didn't listen to anyone else. Grrr. CPS had " trouble " with older kids they placed with this same foster mother and decided " maybe she would be better with younger kids. " How does that make sense? They then put children who CAN'T TALK in her home. Anyway, the foster mother who was abusing my (now) daughter when she was in her care, grabbed onto the CPS worker's sideview mirror of her SUV and screamed and cried and acted like an idiot as they pulled away. She was making my daughter (at 2 years old!) stand on her tippy toes with a magnet high up on the refrigerator and put her nose on the magnet! Then she told me!! As if it was an okay punishment!! I was mortified. She also once grabbed my daughter by the shoulders and slung her onto the couch, causing her to hit her chin against the wood. My daughter didn't even so much as shed a tear and I know it had to have hurt like crazy. I was also disturbed when we went to a birthday party they had for her and my daughter didn't smile, talk, or so much as get a drop of food on her the entire time. She sat with her little plate with cake on the floor, ate, then silently put it on the counter, walked back into the room and sat, silent. It was her birthday party. She was 24 months old..... I can't even think about it without wanting to go kick that woman's butt either!!! >( In addition to that, when my daughter was placed with me, this foster mother refused to return any clothes or toys that were given to her at the birthday party. I didn't even get back what *I* bought her for her birthday. CPS told me to let it go because they didn't want a big fight ensuing. I still feel like they'll be a special place in hell for those stupid people who took their own anger out on a 2 year old little girl who had already been in 3 foster homes and been through who knows what with her birth family. So sad. In a message dated 2/24/2010 2:00:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ninera73@... writes: ... Yep, mandated reporters here CAN be held legally liable for failing to report. In fact, a few years ago there was a widely publicized case of a toddler who was killed by her foster mother. The toddler had also been in daycare and her teachers/caregivers there had...multiple times...reported their suspicions of abuse to the director. Unfortunately, the center policy was to report it to the director and let the director handle it...even though the LAW states that the mandated reporter (all childcare/daycare employees are mandated reporters here) has to make the call to CPS on their own. The employees would have been prosecuted, except that the center policy was in writing in several places (nationwide chain). The center director, however, served time in jail for misdemeanor level manslaughter because she failed to call CPS. The friend who helped me set up the nanny training is a nanny now...but she was an employee of that center at that time, although not in direct care of the child who was killed. There's a list of people who are mandated reporters...There's a list of people who are mandated reporters...<WBR>and they are required by law to report even the SUSPICION of abuse. They don't have to know the name/relationship of the abuser, they don't have to have seen abuse, they don't have to be able to detail incidents. They simply have to suspect abuse based on the child's behaviour, appearance, and/or developmental levels. (the primary legal standard here is that the care/lack The mandated reporter has 24 hours from suspicion/awarenessThe mandated reporter has 24 hours from suspicion/awareness<WBR>/witnessing of abuse to report it by phone, and then 72 hours to file the written report. Once you have been a mandated reporter in the state you are ALWAYS held to that standard (thus, legally liable for failure to report). You are also held to that responsibility even outside your job...if you see it/suspect it happening when you are at the park or store or in your friend's home...you have to report it even if you aren't " on working duty " . Which means you sometimes have to file a report without even knowing a name (you have to tr And, even mandated reporters can make the call...it is just that if you are a mandated reporter you are legally responsible to make the call. Once you make a call...if you are just a concerned person you don't even have to give your name or contact information, but if you do your identity is fully protected under the Child Protection Act. If your identity is revealed by CPS, you're gonna be pretty rich as a result! People who report abuse/suspicion of abuse are also protected from prosecution for reporting it. Thus, if you're talking about liability for preschools/daycaresOnce you make a call...if you are just a concerned person you don't even have to give your name or contact information, but if y Sorry...long winded and I'm really passionate about it. I have a friend who is a state legislator and we are working on amending the list of mandated reporters to include nannies. Ninera > From: christine.depizan <_christine.depizan@christine_ (mailto:christine.depizan@...) > > Subject: Re: stalking bpd-ers > To: _WTOAdultChildren1@WTOAdultChilWTO_ (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ) > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 12:26 PM > Ninera,first of all that's great that > you and your friend organized a training session for > nannies--yes they *should* be mandated reporters since > they're in a very good position to see abuse if it happens. > > It sounds like the state of Michigan > passed a mandated reporting law as a " feel good measure " /so > many words on paper but nobody with the authority to enforce > it by having it actually mean something in real terms is > doing so? Can a mandated reporter be held liable for failing > to report? > > Another question,out of > curiosity,do you know if any of these organizations have > tried to form some kind of liason/alliance with local PTA > groups? Do you know what kind of outreach/marketing of their > services they do? > > I can see where private > entities like preschools/schools or daycares wouldn't want > to touch something like that with a ten foot pole,having > their employees trained to report so that they then have no > real excuse if they don't: money--they wouldn't want to > alienate their paying costumers... alienate their pa > things to peoples' priorities.. things to peoples' pr > schools,why are they not inviting these organizations in to > enable the law to be truly enforced? Could it be that they > don't want the hassle/nobody wants to be the fall guy if > something goes wrong/a victim slips through the cracks? Just > conjecturing but it's good to know there are people like > Chip St Clair and these orgs ( and you and your friend > playing your part!) trying to get something DONE. > > I have alot to learn about > this whole thing.Thank you for sharing your > thoughts/perspectiv thoughts/p > > > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > be, thus the training. > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager > for > > > help at @ > > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO > NOT > > > Respond ON THE > > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > > Eggshells, " call > > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your > copy. We > > > also refer to > > > > >  " Understanding the > Borderline > > > Mother� (Lawson) and > > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline > Parent,� > > > (Roth) which you can > > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the > WTO > > > community! > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, > WTO Online > > > Community > > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE > Workbook.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   _WTOAdultChildren1-WTOAdultChildWTOAdultChilWTO_ (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > help at @... > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > Respond ON THE > > > GROUP. > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > Eggshells, " call > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > also refer to > > > “Understanding the Borderline > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > (Roth) which you can > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > community! > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > Community > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > >   _WTOAdultChildren1-WTOAdultChildWTOAdultChilWTO_ (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at _@..._ (mailto:@...) . > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 ... Yep, mandated reporters here CAN be held legally liable for failing to report. In fact, a few years ago there was a widely publicized case of a toddler who was killed by her foster mother. The toddler had also been in daycare and her teachers/caregivers there had...multiple times...reported their suspicions of abuse to the director. Unfortunately, the center policy was to report it to the director and let the director handle it...even though the LAW states that the mandated reporter (all childcare/daycare employees are mandated reporters here) has to make the call to CPS on their own. The employees would have been prosecuted, except that the center policy was in writing in several places (nationwide chain). The center director, however, served time in jail for misdemeanor level manslaughter because she failed to call CPS. The friend who helped me set up the nanny training is a nanny now...but she was an employee of that center at that time, although not in direct care of the child who was killed. There's a list of people who are mandated reporters...and they are required by law to report even the SUSPICION of abuse. They don't have to know the name/relationship of the abuser, they don't have to have seen abuse, they don't have to be able to detail incidents. They simply have to suspect abuse based on the child's behaviour, appearance, and/or developmental levels. (the primary legal standard here is that the care/lack of care causes either injury or developmental delay). The mandated reporter has 24 hours from suspicion/awareness/witnessing of abuse to report it by phone, and then 72 hours to file the written report. Once you have been a mandated reporter in the state you are ALWAYS held to that standard (thus, legally liable for failure to report). You are also held to that responsibility even outside your job...if you see it/suspect it happening when you are at the park or store or in your friend's home...you have to report it even if you aren't " on working duty " . Which means you sometimes have to file a report without even knowing a name (you have to try and give as many details as possible about appearances, etc). And, even mandated reporters can make the call...it is just that if you are a mandated reporter you are legally responsible to make the call. Once you make a call...if you are just a concerned person you don't even have to give your name or contact information, but if you do your identity is fully protected under the Child Protection Act. If your identity is revealed by CPS, you're gonna be pretty rich as a result! People who report abuse/suspicion of abuse are also protected from prosecution for reporting it. Thus, if you're talking about liability for preschools/daycares/etc, there is NO liability for reporting but HUGE liability for NOT...which means it is in their best interest to train staff! Sorry...long winded and I'm really passionate about it. I have a friend who is a state legislator and we are working on amending the list of mandated reporters to include nannies. Ninera > > Subject: Re: stalking bpd-ers > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 12:26 PM > Ninera,first of all that's great that > you and your friend organized a training session for > nannies--yes they *should* be mandated reporters since > they're in a very good position to see abuse if it happens. > >    It sounds like the state of Michigan > passed a mandated reporting law as a " feel good measure " /so > many words on paper but nobody with the authority to enforce > it by having it actually mean something in real terms is > doing so? Can a mandated reporter be held liable for failing > to report? > >     Another question,out of > curiosity,do you know if any of these organizations have > tried to form some kind of liason/alliance with local PTA > groups? Do you know what kind of outreach/marketing of their > services they do? > >     I can see where private > entities like preschools/schools or daycares wouldn't want > to touch something like that with a ten foot pole,having > their employees trained to report so that they then have no > real excuse if they don't: money--they wouldn't want to > alienate their paying costumers...money does weird weird > things to peoples' priorities...but in the case of public > schools,why are they not inviting these organizations in to > enable the law to be truly enforced? Could it be that they > don't want the hassle/nobody wants to be the fall guy if > something goes wrong/a victim slips through the cracks? Just > conjecturing but it's good to know there are people like > Chip St Clair and these orgs ( and you and your friend > playing your part!) trying to get something DONE. > >      I have alot to learn about > this whole thing.Thank you for sharing your > thoughts/perspective/experience > >      > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > be, thus the training. > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager > for > > > help at @ > > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO > NOT > > > Respond ON THE > > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > > Eggshells, " call > > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your > copy. We > > > also refer to > > > > >  " Understanding the > Borderline > > > Mother� (Lawson) and > > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline > Parent,� > > > (Roth) which you can > > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the > WTO > > > community! > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, > WTO Online > > > Community > > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE > Workbook.Yahoo! > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > help at @... > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > Respond ON THE > > > GROUP. > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > Eggshells, " call > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > also refer to > > > “Understanding the Borderline > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > (Roth) which you can > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > community! > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > Community > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 , got the brain half-awake so I'll give this a go. In hindsight the most damaging thing about bullying wasn't even what the individual bullies did but the sanction of all those who witnessed it. And all those who later heard about it if I shared any piece of it. Like you say some might say it was " wrong " but not WRONG. What I wanted was for someone to get angry on my behalf, actually personally angry. Let's just say that was a very very rare reaction. And I hope you know that I do get very angry on your behalf for all of the incredible abuse you've suffered as well. It is wonderful that you have found a good therapist and are sharing your journey of healing with us - it is helpful to me and I bet to many others too. To see it is possible and your courage in doing it. To me the bullying always brings to mind what Annie posted about those poor monkeys that got attached to a fake wire mother. Then they went out to be with normal monkeys their age and we're driven out or killed. Sometimes I wonder if that's what bullying is and why everyone stands by and does nothing, because they want the odd one driven out far away from the main group. People can be " odd " for a lot of reasons and I think it can be a loss to society for this to happen. Usually the guy that goes crazy and is the secret serial killer is seen by his neighbors as *normal* and no one would have ever suspected it! About the immersion therapy...whew you are brave! I have at times been tempted to read such things, but I think I would just be overcome by the horror of it. Still, your therapist sounds smart that seeing proof that this is part of our reality and people do cover it up - not just for us - seems healing. I don't know if this is a problem just in the US or not, but this sense of forced optimism covers up a lot - have you heard about the book Brightsided by Barbara Ehrenrich (spelling probably off). This need to pretend that things are okay and that bad things don't happen sweeps so much under the run. Optimism can be powerful used the right way, but can also just be a way of turning away. As for the spiritual side, I think I was simply blessed in that particular way. It provided a counterbalance and a sense of invisible support that was crucial growing up. And also - conveniently! - God is so big that he/she trumps the authority of any human being so that helped me have a little perspective ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 That is awesome! It is so heartening to read that reporting suspected child abuse is becoming mandated in so many ways now. Thanks for sharing that, and keep up the good work! -Annie > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > > be, thus the training. > > > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager > > for > > > > help at @ > > > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO > > NOT > > > > Respond ON THE > > > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > > > Eggshells, " call > > > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your > > copy. We > > > > also refer to > > > > > >  " Understanding the > > Borderline > > > > Mother� (Lawson) and > > > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline > > Parent,� > > > > (Roth) which you can > > > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the > > WTO > > > > community! > > > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, > > WTO Online > > > > Community > > > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE > > Workbook.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > > help at @ > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > > Respond ON THE > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > Eggshells, " call > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > > also refer to > > > >  " Understanding the Borderline > > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > > (Roth) which you can > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > > community! > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > > Community > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Kudos to you for reporting abuse and rescuing an abused child, Hummingbird. Yes, I agree: hopefully there is a special place waiting in Hell for those who physically and emotionally torture tiny children who can't possibly fight back or tell anyone about it. -Annie > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > > be, thus the training. > > > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager > > for > > > > help at @ > > > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO > > NOT > > > > Respond ON THE > > > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > > > Eggshells, " call > > > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your > > copy. We > > > > also refer to > > > > > >  " Understanding the > > Borderline > > > > Mother� (Lawson) and > > > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline > > Parent,� > > > > (Roth) which you can > > > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the > > WTO > > > > community! > > > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, > > WTO Online > > > > Community > > > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE > > Workbook.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   _WTOAdultChildren1-WTOAdultChildWTOAdultChilWTO_ > (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > > help at @ > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > > Respond ON THE > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > Eggshells, " call > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > > also refer to > > > >  " Understanding the Borderline > > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > > (Roth) which you can > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > > community! > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > > Community > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >   _WTOAdultChildren1-WTOAdultChildWTOAdultChilWTO_ > (mailto:WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ ---- ---- - > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at > _@..._ (mailto:@...) . > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 I understand how you feel, Ninera. I have had to make calls to CPS on a few friends, and that was the hardest thing anyone has to do is call CPS whether you know the person/children or not. CPS around here is a joke though. I hate to put it that way, but it's true. My " friend " still has her children, and her ex husband, who has decided to restart the relationship with her, even though she abused/abuses him too, has custody of the children after they divorced, but now she's around them. The oldest girl has begun to act like her mother, thinking she can get her way by manipulation, then throwing tantrums until she gets what she wants. The son, he's 16, and I hate to say it, but it's too late for him. Only God can help this teenager now, because he has been through too much. His mother and stepfather (the man who has custody of him now) made me raise his two younger sisters. At ten years old, he was changing their diapers. They were two and three and should have been learning to be potty trained whether they wanted to or not. He was bathing them too. My " friend's " excuse was that she had raised her children. And I looked at her and said, " But your son wasn't the one who had sex and got pregnant, or did I miss something here? " She didn't approve of my comment, but I just couldn't believe what I was witnessing. I stayed in the friendship way too long to try to be a constant source of stability for the children, but the woman had spread rumors about me at my church, saying that I was sleeping with her husband after we smiled at each other at church and said, " Hello, " as we passed each other, so once they got divorced, I stayed away. I had no choice. Too much drama. I miss the children terribly, but they're not mine. The oldest son said, " I wish you were my mother. " And I had to turn away so he wouldn't see the tears in my eyes. I just hugged him and said that for some reason, God didn't see fit to give me him as a son, but He (God) has a plan and a purpose, a future and a hope for him. And sadly, this boy was told by his mother that he was not wanted. She told him that he was a product of rape. Unfortunately, the woman is known for being a pathological liar. She said she gave birth to him when she was 16, but in 2004, he was eleven and she was 31, which made her twenty. Ever since she told her son that he was a product of rape, he has been a mess. He is even stealing now, hanging with the wrong crowd, and he's headed toward a pretty scary future. I also have another friend whose brother has serious mental problems. He had two sons taken from him in 2005, and he and his new wife just had another son. They are taking care of the baby, but due to this man's mental issues and past, they will probably take the baby. I know that's in the baby's best interest, but my friend (his sister) is going to be crushed when it happens. I say " when " because it's just a given. If you knew this man, you would know why. He killed his own sister's dog a few weeks ago. The grandmother (parent of the brother, also has mental problems) has threatened to kill CPS agents if they come and take this baby. (I'm pretty sure the grandmother has BPD, and probably schizophrenia. Her son has schizophrenia.) Her son, (the father of the baby) has threatened to blow up the church I attend. I wouldn't take it seriously if he hadn't killed his sister's dog. The man was arrested a few nights ago, and the wife got him out of jail. He will more than likely get away with it due to a technicality on the part of the police. All I know is that we need better CPS workers in this area. We also need better APS workers too. e > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > > be, thus the training. > > > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > > > Ninera > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager > > for > > > > help at @ > > > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO > > NOT > > > > Respond ON THE > > > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > > > Eggshells, " call > > > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your > > copy. We > > > > also refer to > > > > > >  " Understanding the > > Borderline > > > > Mother� (Lawson) and > > > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline > > Parent,� > > > > (Roth) which you can > > > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the > > WTO > > > > community! > > > > > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, > > WTO Online > > > > Community > > > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE > > Workbook.Yahoo! > > > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > > help at @ > > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > > Respond ON THE > > > > GROUP. > > > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > > Eggshells, " call > > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > > also refer to > > > >  " Understanding the Borderline > > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > >  " Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > > (Roth) which you can > > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > > community! > > > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > > Community > > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > > Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 ,I think you must be a bit more than just " mildly psychic " because this is the second time you've directed me to reading material that I could really benefit from at this exact time-- " Brightsided " sounds PERFECT for my present state of mind and as a matter of fact,is precisely what I've been thinking about lately.I read Ehrenreich's " Nickel and Dimed " and really appreciated the debate she was trying to begin with it...You must have a gift.Have you ever considered becoming a professional bookseller/dealer? I know what you mean about the sanction of witnesses being in a way even more damaging than the abuse itself.I feel that way,too.When I saw you put wrong in quotes in one of your posts as " wrong " I was like,no way ! It was WRONG.What you shared broke my heart,it was so vile for those kids to treat you like that. I feel like I can relate to what Annie posted about that horrible monkey experiment,too.I find myself being mindful of that potential dynamic in my life even now,because I know that I am different and I know what can happen to people who are different.I hate to have to " fake belonging " but often I do,esp. at work.Being different isn't necessarily akin to being dangerous,but the " laws " of group cohesion can make it appear so--and then you get the wacko-on-the-quiet who goes postal,like you mentioned. I'm happy for you that you have been able to maintain a sense of sustaining faith--it's humbling to me how you perceive god,from a position of true strength.I am weaker than that and don't have that kind of wise surrender to a higher power.I often think about why we are all here and to what purpose and I do think I am a spiritual person but I wrestle alot with doubt and cynicism.And admit to projecting nada onto the entire universe even though I know that's not IT or what all of it really is or really is about. As to the immersion therapy...my therapist knows what she's doing,she's very skilled thank god and this was the right time to do it.In the past I would have definitely been flooded with horror reading stuff about child abuse but what it is right now is a sort of collecting myself/grounding myself in reality...not as a ghoulish voyeurism into other peoples' tragedies but as a way to find my place within the greater scope of humanity.I think about child abuse so much,I want to understand why it happens--it hurts to read about children who have suffered and died yet it also soldifies my resolve to be part of the solution.I'm not sure,actually,how to explain it.I feel a responsibilty as an abuse survivor who did in fact survive--I know that I have issues as a result of that--I want to do something--but I also want to do something right and to be more and more honest as a way to both heal myself and to contribute to healing in society.Knowledge is power,they say.I seem to be in a " gathering phase " ,the gathering of knowledge and power.I want to come out swinging,but in a contributive,positive way.Like you said,forced optimism doesn't solve the problem.I guess on a personal level I am attempting to remove the scales from my eyes since it is only by being as clear sighted as I can that I could possibly make a difference,if a difference can be made.Which remains to be seen,as it were...At any rate I am certainly getting an education. Thank you again for the reading tip.And I thank you for sharing your thoughts--it's more than nice when we can help eachother out like this.It's great when what we share on this board is mutually beneficial. --- > > , got the brain half-awake so I'll give this a go. In hindsight the most damaging thing about bullying wasn't even what the individual bullies did but the sanction of all those who witnessed it. And all those who later heard about it if I shared any piece of it. Like you say some might say it was " wrong " but not WRONG. What I wanted was for someone to get angry on my behalf, actually personally angry. Let's just say that was a very very rare reaction. And I hope you know that I do get very angry on your behalf for all of the incredible abuse you've suffered as well. It is wonderful that you have found a good therapist and are sharing your journey of healing with us - it is helpful to me and I bet to many others too. To see it is possible and your courage in doing it. > > To me the bullying always brings to mind what Annie posted about those poor monkeys that got attached to a fake wire mother. Then they went out to be with normal monkeys their age and we're driven out or killed. Sometimes I wonder if that's what bullying is and why everyone stands by and does nothing, because they want the odd one driven out far away from the main group. People can be " odd " for a lot of reasons and I think it can be a loss to society for this to happen. Usually the guy that goes crazy and is the secret serial killer is seen by his neighbors as *normal* and no one would have ever suspected it! > > About the immersion therapy...whew you are brave! I have at times been tempted to read such things, but I think I would just be overcome by the horror of it. Still, your therapist sounds smart that seeing proof that this is part of our reality and people do cover it up - not just for us - seems healing. I don't know if this is a problem just in the US or not, but this sense of forced optimism covers up a lot - have you heard about the book Brightsided by Barbara Ehrenrich (spelling probably off). This need to pretend that things are okay and that bad things don't happen sweeps so much under the run. Optimism can be powerful used the right way, but can also just be a way of turning away. > > As for the spiritual side, I think I was simply blessed in that particular way. It provided a counterbalance and a sense of invisible support that was crucial growing up. And also - conveniently! - God is so big that he/she trumps the authority of any human being so that helped me have a little perspective ;-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 Ninera,I know what a mandated reporter is and does,but thank you for clarifying that for those here who might not know. Maybe it wasn't clear in my post,but what I was responding to was what you were saying about mandated reporters beng required by law in Michigan for example to report abuse yet not being *required* to have training in how and when to report.And that you are baffled as to why they don't avail themselves of the free training that is available. DHS,for example,also has free training available but expects interested parties to contact THEM to receive it.My question to you was,since you know someone who is involved with one of the orgs that do training: Does the org do outreach to entities such as schools etc that need the mandated reporter training? What kind of outreach do they do? How do they market their training services in the community? Do they offer to *come* to them to do this training? And if they do engage in outreach/advertisement of the mandated reporter training,why do you think it is that these entities aren't lining up to get it? I know that a mandated reporter wouldn't be liable for reporting abuse.I was wondering,however,why it is that places like schools etc aren't filling in the gap by getting their staff trained to adequately report.I was also wondering why it is that there is a law that requires mandated reporters but doesn't require that they be trained.I doubt that the reasons why there is a disconnect are baffling.There are surely reasons for it--and what I was trying to say is that a law that requires mandated reporters but doesn't empower them to fulfill their function by ensuring that they are trained to do so amounts merely to a " feel good measure " because it is a law with no teeth.Expecting people to report merely because it is in their best interests to do so otherwise they would be punished doesn't really take into account the weirdnesses of human nature and its tendency to focus more on the end of their own noses and not some abstract potential punishment--your example of the non-reporting preschool director being a case in point: she was balancing the books (not reporting a paying costumer) instead of considering the big picture (abstract ethical issue of ensuring the protection of a child who might be in danger).The end result is that a child died--but a tragic case example is not going to be enough of a deterrant to prevent it from happening again. I agree that legislation to make the mandated reporter training itself part of the law,with consequences if the training is not provided,is a better solution.It is also preferable when people who would not otherwise act can sort of take refuge in the law,as in: I *have* to do this because it is the law,which absolves me from having to take full responsibility for my actions and that my actions don't depend only on my own initiative but on the stated law.I also think if all mandated reporters received training in when and how to report that this kind of micro-managament/micro-information would empower them--and that it would take an amendment to the mandated reporter law to also require training to make sure the mandated reporter law actually has teeth. I also feel passionately about this since I almost died from the mandated reporters in my case not doing what they were supposed to do.My second grade teacher who I asked to intervene when I was being repeatedly gang raped was a mandated reporter.She laughed at me when I disclosed and asked me if I'd seen " that on tv " .The principal of my grade school was a mandated reporter when I went to him several times to ask him to intervene with my sixth grade teacher who was molesting me.He hollered at me never to say those horrible things about the teacher ever again,the pedophile teacher also being a mandated reporter.The therapist I saw with my " family " was also a mandated reporter--when I told her that my teacher was a " pervert " and was " bothering " me,she said we didn't have anything to talk about until I told her the " real reason " why I was so angry. If these mandated reporters had been required to receive training by law,not just expected to seek it out of their own volition,they might have had the knowledge they needed to report my disclosures.For me this is very personal--and it is also almost more than I can bear to know that other children in situations like the ones I was in might get shafted like I was because some mandated reporters aren't doing what they are supposed to do.Does that mean that all mandated reporters don't take their responsibility seriously and do what they are supposed to do? NO.Of course not.But I want to know what happens when they don't and why.And how failures to report can be avoided--for example I think that my principal didn't report my allegations because he feared being held liable for not having reported that teacher before then.I'm sure I wasn't his first victim--he knew exactly what he was doing.If the law had included training of mandated reporters to thoroughly empower them to report with all the necessary micro-information,maybe he would have reported the teacher before I ended up in his class--or at the very least I would have been his last victim. I also wish that reporting child abuse was enough.Often it isn't,too often.I want to know the ways in which the system isn't working and how to fix it.I don't want other children to have to suffer needlessly as I did. -- > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least where I > > live, there are many organizations that offer the mandated > > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to take > > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. One of > > my college roommates works for such an organization and we > > had her do a training for a group of nannies...even though > > nannies (in this state) are not technically mandated > > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we *should* > > be, thus the training. > > > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and preschools > > and other facilities don't take advantage of that. > > > > > > Ninera > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > > GROUP. > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I was primarily responding to your comments about private schools, etc, not availing themselves of training because of increased liability...that they'd have no excuse for not reporting. That simply wouldn't be the case since they can be prosecuted for NOT reporting...they'd lessen their liability if they trained their staff. > > Subject: Re: stalking bpd-ers > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Friday, February 26, 2010, 12:49 PM > Ninera,I know what a mandated > reporter is and does,but thank you for clarifying that for > those here who might not know. > >   Maybe it wasn't clear in my post,but what I > was responding to was what you were saying about mandated > reporters beng required by law in Michigan for example to > report abuse yet not being *required* to have training in > how and when to report.And that you are baffled as to why > they don't avail themselves of the free training that is > available. > >    DHS,for example,also has free training > available but expects interested parties to contact THEM to > receive it.My question to you was,since you know someone who > is involved with one of the orgs that do training: Does the > org do outreach to entities such as schools etc that need > the mandated reporter training? What kind of outreach do > they do? How do they market their training services in the > community? Do they offer to *come* to them to do this > training? > >      And if they do engage in > outreach/advertisement of the mandated reporter training,why > do you think it is that these entities aren't lining up to > get it? > >      I know that a mandated > reporter wouldn't be liable for reporting abuse.I was > wondering,however,why it is that places like schools etc > aren't filling in the gap by getting their staff trained to > adequately report.I was also wondering why it is that there > is a law that requires mandated reporters but doesn't > require that they be trained.I doubt that the reasons why > there is a disconnect are baffling.There are surely reasons > for it--and what I was trying to say is that a law that > requires mandated reporters but doesn't empower them to > fulfill their function by ensuring that they are trained to > do so amounts merely to a " feel good measure " because it is > a law with no teeth.Expecting people to report merely > because it is in their best interests to do so otherwise > they would be punished doesn't really take into account the > weirdnesses of human nature and its tendency to focus more > on the end of their own noses and not some abstract > potential punishment--your example of the non-reporting > preschool director being a case in point: she was balancing > the books (not reporting a paying costumer) instead of > considering the big picture (abstract ethical issue of > ensuring the protection of a child who might be in > danger).The end result is that a child died--but a tragic > case example is not going to be enough of a deterrant to > prevent it from happening again. > >       I agree that > legislation to make the mandated reporter training itself > part of the law,with consequences if the training is not > provided,is a better solution.It is also preferable when > people who would not otherwise act can sort of take refuge > in the law,as in: I *have* to do this because it is the > law,which absolves me from having to take full > responsibility for my actions and that my actions don't > depend only on my own initiative but on the stated law.I > also think if all mandated reporters received training in > when and how to report that this kind of > micro-managament/micro-information would empower them--and > that it would take an amendment to the mandated reporter law > to also require training to make sure the mandated reporter > law actually has teeth. > >     I also feel passionately about > this since I almost died from the mandated reporters in my > case not doing what they were supposed to do.My second grade > teacher who I asked to intervene when I was being repeatedly > gang raped was a mandated reporter.She laughed at me when I > disclosed and asked me if I'd seen " that on tv " .The > principal of my grade school was a mandated reporter when I > went to him several times to ask him to intervene with my > sixth grade teacher who was molesting me.He hollered at me > never to say those horrible things about the teacher ever > again,the pedophile teacher also being a mandated > reporter.The therapist I saw with my " family " was also a > mandated reporter--when I told her that my teacher was a > " pervert " and was " bothering " me,she said we didn't have > anything to talk about until I told her the " real reason " > why I was so angry. > >    If these mandated reporters had been > required to receive training by law,not just expected to > seek it out of their own volition,they might have had the > knowledge they needed to report my disclosures.For me this > is very personal--and it is also almost more than I can bear > to know that other children in situations like the ones I > was in might get shafted like I was because some mandated > reporters aren't doing what they are supposed to do.Does > that mean that all mandated reporters don't take their > responsibility seriously and do what they are supposed to > do? NO.Of course not.But I want to know what happens when > they don't and why.And how failures to report can be > avoided--for example I think that my principal didn't report > my allegations because he feared being held liable for not > having reported that teacher before then.I'm sure I wasn't > his first victim--he knew exactly what he was doing.If the > law had included training of mandated reporters to > thoroughly empower them to report with all the necessary > micro-information,maybe he would have reported the teacher > before I ended up in his class--or at the very least I would > have been his last victim. > >       I also wish that > reporting child abuse was enough.Often it isn't,too often.I > want to know the ways in which the system isn't working and > how to fix it.I don't want other children to have to suffer > needlessly as I did. > >     -- > > > > > > > > > > You're welcome. > > > > > > > > One of the craziest things to me...at least > where I > > > live, there are many organizations that offer the > mandated > > > reporter training for FREE to ANYONE who wants to > take > > > it. They'll even come TO you/your group. > One of > > > my college roommates works for such an > organization and we > > > had her do a training for a group of > nannies...even though > > > nannies (in this state) are not technically > mandated > > > reporters, most of us feel very strongly that we > *should* > > > be, thus the training. > > > > > > > > So it BAFFLES me why school districts and > preschools > > > and other facilities don't take advantage of > that. > > > > > > > > Ninera > > > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for > help at @... > > > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT > Respond ON THE > > > GROUP. > > > > > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on > Eggshells, " call > > > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We > also refer to > > > “Understanding the Borderline > Motherâ€� (Lawson) and > > > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,â€� > (Roth) which you can > > > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO > community! > > > > > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online > Community > > > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.Yahoo! > Groups Links > > > > > > > > >   WTOAdultChildren1-fullfeatured > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 , I'm so glad the book sounds like such a good fit for where you are at. I can't claim psychism on that one though - just reading what you wrote brought it to mind. Talking about psychic stuff though, it has made it tricky in getting the right kind of help - most therapists don't " do " psychic issues and most woo-woo people don't have deep psychological knowledge and training. About faith please don't think of it as weak/strong. I think having crazy parents and growing up in a culture which equates God with a parental figure is a hard set up to deal with. I've always found looking to my direct spiritual experiences has helped the most - be your own authority! And it sounds like your gathering stage is leading to some wonderful things...I have faith in that > > ,I think you must be a bit more than just " mildly psychic " because this is the second time you've directed me to reading material that I could really benefit from at this exact time-- " Brightsided " sounds PERFECT for my present state of mind and as a matter of fact,is precisely what I've been thinking about lately.I read Ehrenreich's " Nickel and Dimed " and really appreciated the debate she was trying to begin with it...You must have a gift.Have you ever considered becoming a professional bookseller/dealer? > > I know what you mean about the sanction of witnesses being in a way even more damaging than the abuse itself.I feel that way,too.When I saw you put wrong in quotes in one of your posts as " wrong " I was like,no way ! It was WRONG.What you shared broke my heart,it was so vile for those kids to treat you like that. > > I feel like I can relate to what Annie posted about that horrible monkey experiment,too.I find myself being mindful of that potential dynamic in my life even now,because I know that I am different and I know what can happen to people who are different.I hate to have to " fake belonging " but often I do,esp. at work.Being different isn't necessarily akin to being dangerous,but the " laws " of group cohesion can make it appear so--and then you get the wacko-on-the-quiet who goes postal,like you mentioned. > > I'm happy for you that you have been able to maintain a sense of sustaining faith--it's humbling to me how you perceive god,from a position of true strength.I am weaker than that and don't have that kind of wise surrender to a higher power.I often think about why we are all here and to what purpose and I do think I am a spiritual person but I wrestle alot with doubt and cynicism.And admit to projecting nada onto the entire universe even though I know that's not IT or what all of it really is or really is about. > > As to the immersion therapy...my therapist knows what she's doing,she's very skilled thank god and this was the right time to do it.In the past I would have definitely been flooded with horror reading stuff about child abuse but what it is right now is a sort of collecting myself/grounding myself in reality...not as a ghoulish voyeurism into other peoples' tragedies but as a way to find my place within the greater scope of humanity.I think about child abuse so much,I want to understand why it happens--it hurts to read about children who have suffered and died yet it also soldifies my resolve to be part of the solution.I'm not sure,actually,how to explain it.I feel a responsibilty as an abuse survivor who did in fact survive--I know that I have issues as a result of that--I want to do something--but I also want to do something right and to be more and more honest as a way to both heal myself and to contribute to healing in society.Knowledge is power,they say.I seem to be in a " gathering phase " ,the gathering of knowledge and power.I want to come out swinging,but in a contributive,positive way.Like you said,forced optimism doesn't solve the problem.I guess on a personal level I am attempting to remove the scales from my eyes since it is only by being as clear sighted as I can that I could possibly make a difference,if a difference can be made.Which remains to be seen,as it were...At any rate I am certainly getting an education. > > Thank you again for the reading tip.And I thank you for sharing your thoughts--it's more than nice when we can help eachother out like this.It's great when what we share on this board is mutually beneficial. > > > --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Thank you,...I agree with you that faith should be beyond dichotomies of weak/strong.I feel most at peace when focusing more on the one-ness of being,all of us part of a greater whole--doubt seeps in when I am considering my own personal pain and that can feel like weakness as in a weakening of my own faith in the rightfulness of existence itself. I can see where having psychic issues related to traumatic things that happened to you might pose a dilemma when seeking therapeutic treatment: if it's important to explaining your experience but a therapist doesn't get that part,that could make you feel very invalidated and alone.And on the other hand,if other kinds of healers don't have the deep psychological knowledge and training to get the trauma aspect of your experience,that would make you feel invalidated and alone,too. I think that's sort of a depth of feeling issue that is hard to get understanding and validation from others unless they have experienced the same thing and really know where you're coming from.And not many will and it can hurt to have to walk alone with our knowingness. Thank you so much for expressing faith in the good that can come from the " gathering stage " I'm in,that's really a shot in the arm.I totally appreciate your saying that!!!!! Blessings to you,.... > > , I'm so glad the book sounds like such a good fit for where you are at. I can't claim psychism on that one though - just reading what you wrote brought it to mind. Talking about psychic stuff though, it has made it tricky in getting the right kind of help - most therapists don't " do " psychic issues and most woo-woo people don't have deep psychological knowledge and training. About faith please don't think of it as weak/strong. I think having crazy parents and growing up in a culture which equates God with a parental figure is a hard set up to deal with. I've always found looking to my direct spiritual experiences has helped the most - be your own authority! And it sounds like your gathering stage is leading to some wonderful things...I have faith in that > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 OMG . Not only a devastatingly sick person, a cruel one as well. The death penatly would have been my vote. They killed Aristotle for less. Diane > > > > I wondered if you all feel stalked by your bpd parents. I know I did by my > > mother as she couldn't go more than 5 hours without calling me and if I > > didn't answer she literally hunted me down. Then some of you said that you > > feared for your lives sometimes from your bpd parents. Did you know ted bundy > > was dx as bpd? Just thought that was interesting. > > > > I wonder if some of you can ask your therapists their experiences with > > bpd's because I asked mine. > > > > One therapist told me she had a bpd client she eventually had to get a > > restraining order against. The woman cut herself and wrote in blood on her car > > door (the therapist's car door). She called her house and harrassed her > > children (who were teens at the time). > > > > My current therapist told me a more terrifying experience. > > > > She had a bpd client find out where she lived. She lived in a gated > > community and the woman couldn't get in. I don't know how she caught her but the > > woman admitted it-- freaky. Scares me FOR HER. > > > > The same client broke into her email. I don't know how it all came about > > either, but supposedly she got suspicious someone was deleting her emails and > > somehow figured it out. I have her email address too and she said she > > actually has an email she set up just for clients, separate from her personal > > email. This woman somehow got the password and was deleting emails from > > other clients....oh.my.heavens!!! She also got her personal email and broke > > into it too. This was way before I was a client...thank God. I would freak out > > if I thought anyone read my emails to my therapist!!! > > She made a fake name on myspace (or facebook or some similar thing like > > that) and befriended her (the therapist's) adult daughter, pretending to be > > someone else. > > She would refuse to leave when her appointments ended, always finding > > reasons to stay longer, acting out or whatever she had to do to make the > > appointments last and then would take 20 minutes trying to apologize for her > > behavior. > > Joined an online group my therapist was a member of as a fake person. > > Would spiral out of control if she went on vacation, cancelled the appt., > > or was even 5 minutes late. > > Would sit in the parking lot after her appointments watching her clients > > go in and out and then accuse her of seeing some clients longer than her. > > OMG...just weird and kinda makes me paranoid to see who's watching me when I > > go in and out. > > And she said she'd ride by the office on days she didn't have appts... we > > did laugh about that because I thought it was so pathetic and sad....I also > > commented that that in and of itself would never prove I didn't have bpd, > > because I already drive 1.5 hours to go see her and I certainly was not > > driving over on days I didn't see her just to ride by and see her car in front > > of building. LOL > > > > I asked her how she got away from the woman and ended it and she said...we > > moved across the country. LOL....she didn't move for that reason, but it > > was a perk, I guess. > > > > There was more, but this was the jist of it. Now, I couldn't see my mother > > doing things like this. I could see her getting jealous of other people, > > but I never knew of her to do things like this to anyone except my sister, me > > or my dad. > > > > This is just messed up!!! > > > > s > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Not only did my nada stalk me, she contrived this story that some gangsters were trying to kill me during my senior year of high school. Yep. They were supposed to be stalking me over drugs (I didn't even smoke pot) and the principal felt so sorry for my crazy mother she let her follow me from class to class during the last two weeks of high school. My nada actually carried a notepad and books and took notes and asked questions in class. I was so traumatized by graduation, the principal let me finish my year at home. My nada ran to school to get assignments and bring them to me. On graduation night my love of life boyfriend dangled his new car keys to me and she dragged me out of the auditorium. for the...family celebration. I cried myself to sleep very early hearing my bf drive by honking his horn at me all night. As an adult, she walks into my house and starts raging at me. Stalk? Is that the word for it? > > I wondered if you all feel stalked by your bpd parents. I know I did by my > mother as she couldn't go more than 5 hours without calling me and if I > didn't answer she literally hunted me down. Then some of you said that you > feared for your lives sometimes from your bpd parents. Did you know ted bundy > was dx as bpd? Just thought that was interesting. > > I wonder if some of you can ask your therapists their experiences with > bpd's because I asked mine. > > One therapist told me she had a bpd client she eventually had to get a > restraining order against. The woman cut herself and wrote in blood on her car > door (the therapist's car door). She called her house and harrassed her > children (who were teens at the time). > > My current therapist told me a more terrifying experience. > > She had a bpd client find out where she lived. She lived in a gated > community and the woman couldn't get in. I don't know how she caught her but the > woman admitted it-- freaky. Scares me FOR HER. > > The same client broke into her email. I don't know how it all came about > either, but supposedly she got suspicious someone was deleting her emails and > somehow figured it out. I have her email address too and she said she > actually has an email she set up just for clients, separate from her personal > email. This woman somehow got the password and was deleting emails from > other clients....oh.my.heavens!!! She also got her personal email and broke > into it too. This was way before I was a client...thank God. I would freak out > if I thought anyone read my emails to my therapist!!! > She made a fake name on myspace (or facebook or some similar thing like > that) and befriended her (the therapist's) adult daughter, pretending to be > someone else. > She would refuse to leave when her appointments ended, always finding > reasons to stay longer, acting out or whatever she had to do to make the > appointments last and then would take 20 minutes trying to apologize for her > behavior. > Joined an online group my therapist was a member of as a fake person. > Would spiral out of control if she went on vacation, cancelled the appt., > or was even 5 minutes late. > Would sit in the parking lot after her appointments watching her clients > go in and out and then accuse her of seeing some clients longer than her. > OMG...just weird and kinda makes me paranoid to see who's watching me when I > go in and out. > And she said she'd ride by the office on days she didn't have appts... we > did laugh about that because I thought it was so pathetic and sad....I also > commented that that in and of itself would never prove I didn't have bpd, > because I already drive 1.5 hours to go see her and I certainly was not > driving over on days I didn't see her just to ride by and see her car in front > of building. LOL > > I asked her how she got away from the woman and ended it and she said...we > moved across the country. LOL....she didn't move for that reason, but it > was a perk, I guess. > > There was more, but this was the jist of it. Now, I couldn't see my mother > doing things like this. I could see her getting jealous of other people, > but I never knew of her to do things like this to anyone except my sister, me > or my dad. > > This is just messed up!!! > > s > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 When I was church organist, my mother decided to join the choir. She'd sit there and critique my playing, or make comments about how bad something I played sounded. I gave up and left the church entirely. Is there anything I have ever done she didn't screw? no. The validation in this group is mesmerizing. Diane > > Stalking, but not to that degree! Subtle stalking, mostly...and from a competitive angle with my nada. I joined the church choir...all of a sudden she had this burning desire to sing, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Hi, Freefroggy - I think the word for it is " nuts. " It sounds like you need some good, strong deadbolts. Really - I know she's your mom, but as a adult, you don't have to let anybody into your home. I know it's harder than it sounds - I actually told my mom she couldn't come in once (she showed up after attending an event in my town and wanted to visit with my son - who was in bed, because it was after 10 on a school night, duh). I stood there in the driveway and told her she'd have to go home because it was too late for a visit - and as I was saying the words, I could NOT believe they were coming out of my mouth, and I wasn't sure what she'd do - but she left! She sulked and told her friends how awful I am, but that's OK. There's an entire group of elderly ladies in her town who think I am Satan, but at least she doesn't show up at my house any more. I can live with it. I know some of these Nadas are crazier and wilder than others, and mine is pretty subtle (manipulative, denigrating & whiny, rather than raging) - but really... when somebody starts invading YOUR home, that YOU pay for, and screaming at you - that's waaaay over the line. > > > > I wondered if you all feel stalked by your bpd parents. I know I did > by my > > mother as she couldn't go more than 5 hours without calling me and if > I > > didn't answer she literally hunted me down. Then some of you said > that you > > feared for your lives sometimes from your bpd parents. Did you know > ted bundy > > was dx as bpd? Just thought that was interesting. > > > > I wonder if some of you can ask your therapists their experiences with > > bpd's because I asked mine. > > > > One therapist told me she had a bpd client she eventually had to get a > > restraining order against. The woman cut herself and wrote in blood on > her car > > door (the therapist's car door). She called her house and harrassed > her > > children (who were teens at the time). > > > > My current therapist told me a more terrifying experience. > > > > She had a bpd client find out where she lived. She lived in a gated > > community and the woman couldn't get in. I don't know how she caught > her but the > > woman admitted it-- freaky. Scares me FOR HER. > > > > The same client broke into her email. I don't know how it all came > about > > either, but supposedly she got suspicious someone was deleting her > emails and > > somehow figured it out. I have her email address too and she said she > > actually has an email she set up just for clients, separate from her > personal > > email. This woman somehow got the password and was deleting emails > from > > other clients....oh.my.heavens!!! She also got her personal email and > broke > > into it too. This was way before I was a client...thank God. I would > freak out > > if I thought anyone read my emails to my therapist!!! > > She made a fake name on myspace (or facebook or some similar thing > like > > that) and befriended her (the therapist's) adult daughter, pretending > to be > > someone else. > > She would refuse to leave when her appointments ended, always finding > > reasons to stay longer, acting out or whatever she had to do to make > the > > appointments last and then would take 20 minutes trying to apologize > for her > > behavior. > > Joined an online group my therapist was a member of as a fake person. > > Would spiral out of control if she went on vacation, cancelled the > appt., > > or was even 5 minutes late. > > Would sit in the parking lot after her appointments watching her > clients > > go in and out and then accuse her of seeing some clients longer than > her. > > OMG...just weird and kinda makes me paranoid to see who's watching me > when I > > go in and out. > > And she said she'd ride by the office on days she didn't have appts... > we > > did laugh about that because I thought it was so pathetic and sad....I > also > > commented that that in and of itself would never prove I didn't have > bpd, > > because I already drive 1.5 hours to go see her and I certainly was > not > > driving over on days I didn't see her just to ride by and see her car > in front > > of building. LOL > > > > I asked her how she got away from the woman and ended it and she > said...we > > moved across the country. LOL....she didn't move for that reason, but > it > > was a perk, I guess. > > > > There was more, but this was the jist of it. Now, I couldn't see my > mother > > doing things like this. I could see her getting jealous of other > people, > > but I never knew of her to do things like this to anyone except my > sister, me > > or my dad. > > > > This is just messed up!!! > > > > s > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 2, 2010 Report Share Posted March 2, 2010 Hi, Freefroggy - I think the word for it is " nuts. " It sounds like you need some good, strong deadbolts. Really - I know she's your mom, but as a adult, you don't have to let anybody into your home. I know it's harder than it sounds - I actually told my mom she couldn't come in once (she showed up after attending an event in my town and wanted to visit with my son - who was in bed, because it was after 10 on a school night, duh). I stood there in the driveway and told her she'd have to go home because it was too late for a visit - and as I was saying the words, I could NOT believe they were coming out of my mouth, and I wasn't sure what she'd do - but she left! She sulked and told her friends how awful I am, but that's OK. There's an entire group of elderly ladies in her town who think I am Satan, but at least she doesn't show up at my house any more. I can live with it. I know some of these Nadas are crazier and wilder than others, and mine is pretty subtle (manipulative, denigrating & whiny, rather than raging) - but really... when somebody starts invading YOUR home, that YOU pay for, and screaming at you - that's waaaay over the line. > > > > I wondered if you all feel stalked by your bpd parents. I know I did > by my > > mother as she couldn't go more than 5 hours without calling me and if > I > > didn't answer she literally hunted me down. Then some of you said > that you > > feared for your lives sometimes from your bpd parents. Did you know > ted bundy > > was dx as bpd? Just thought that was interesting. > > > > I wonder if some of you can ask your therapists their experiences with > > bpd's because I asked mine. > > > > One therapist told me she had a bpd client she eventually had to get a > > restraining order against. The woman cut herself and wrote in blood on > her car > > door (the therapist's car door). She called her house and harrassed > her > > children (who were teens at the time). > > > > My current therapist told me a more terrifying experience. > > > > She had a bpd client find out where she lived. She lived in a gated > > community and the woman couldn't get in. I don't know how she caught > her but the > > woman admitted it-- freaky. Scares me FOR HER. > > > > The same client broke into her email. I don't know how it all came > about > > either, but supposedly she got suspicious someone was deleting her > emails and > > somehow figured it out. I have her email address too and she said she > > actually has an email she set up just for clients, separate from her > personal > > email. This woman somehow got the password and was deleting emails > from > > other clients....oh.my.heavens!!! She also got her personal email and > broke > > into it too. This was way before I was a client...thank God. I would > freak out > > if I thought anyone read my emails to my therapist!!! > > She made a fake name on myspace (or facebook or some similar thing > like > > that) and befriended her (the therapist's) adult daughter, pretending > to be > > someone else. > > She would refuse to leave when her appointments ended, always finding > > reasons to stay longer, acting out or whatever she had to do to make > the > > appointments last and then would take 20 minutes trying to apologize > for her > > behavior. > > Joined an online group my therapist was a member of as a fake person. > > Would spiral out of control if she went on vacation, cancelled the > appt., > > or was even 5 minutes late. > > Would sit in the parking lot after her appointments watching her > clients > > go in and out and then accuse her of seeing some clients longer than > her. > > OMG...just weird and kinda makes me paranoid to see who's watching me > when I > > go in and out. > > And she said she'd ride by the office on days she didn't have appts... > we > > did laugh about that because I thought it was so pathetic and sad....I > also > > commented that that in and of itself would never prove I didn't have > bpd, > > because I already drive 1.5 hours to go see her and I certainly was > not > > driving over on days I didn't see her just to ride by and see her car > in front > > of building. LOL > > > > I asked her how she got away from the woman and ended it and she > said...we > > moved across the country. LOL....she didn't move for that reason, but > it > > was a perk, I guess. > > > > There was more, but this was the jist of it. Now, I couldn't see my > mother > > doing things like this. I could see her getting jealous of other > people, > > but I never knew of her to do things like this to anyone except my > sister, me > > or my dad. > > > > This is just messed up!!! > > > > s > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.