Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 , I can't even tell you how much I relate to this post. Isn't it just the way that when BP's are angry, suddenly any weaknesses/failings that you have (that they were understanding about when you were doing what THEY wanted you to do) are brought up and they abuse you with them. The first few times that happened with nada I was really upset. I was thinking, " So she was lying all that time and THIS is what she really thinks of me. " Then I realized it was just a tool to make me agree with her. Then we go out into the world, and attract and attract and attract people just like this. I've attracted them all my life. It sucks. And talk about being bullied in school...I have this theory that kids who are being abused in home somehow learn to carry themselves in such a way that other kids who need to bully and abuse weaker kids are just draw to them like bees to honey. It's like the BP parent sends you out to school with a " kick me " sign on your back. So you get abused and abused and abused at home, and then you're abused and abused and abused at school. In your case, add to that the natural put-downs and criticism the ADD child receives from teachers, etc., because they don't learn the way other kids do, and you just weren't getting any support at all. In my case, at least I could make good grades. I think the good opinion of my teachers gave me at least a smidgeon of self-worth. Then there was the sad phenomenon of " falling in love with the teacher, " which happened to me over and over and over until my early twenties. I think it had a lot to do with being raked over the coals so mercilessly at home all the time. I want to know, how many of the rest of us KO's took a hazing in school?? --. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Hi , You know, my mom would mostly do 'waify' things *to* me. For example, I had a b-day party for when I was around 11 or so, and since my situation was tenuous at school and socially (strangely I was 'best friends' with a girl who constantly betrayed me and initiated targeted behavior towards me; she was from a big family and I think she was jealous of what I had in my small family), when my 'friends' began to rip down the decorations my mom had put up (paper streamers sort of thing); I couldn't stop them. Really what was I to do? My dad called me to the top of the stairs and there is my mom crying about the decorations being pulled down, all the work she put into it (which she did) and to make it worse, her nose was bleeding (I don't know why). It was horrible. I felt like the wrongest person alive because of her. My ex-husband does different behavior (bullying, judging, put-downs, nastiness when HE feels attacked) but the feeling I get is the same...like I am the wrongest dumbest person alive. That I should have known better (for whatever) that whatever he says is true. He made me doubt myself for 20 years. (and like I said he has that good-guy side to him too that I think he clings to as his identity). My mother's behavior of course made me a target; I was unable to feel stable and secure at home and so at school it was worse. My ex's behavior made it really hard for me to cope with my ADD (that I did not know I had) and he would judge me horribly for things I did or didn't do that were caused by it). Over the years it chipped away at my self esteem. I didn't feel capable enough to leave him and support myself, especially when I had a baby. Grrr...I get so mad when I think of it. As far as ADD in school, mostly I did well in school because I liked the activity. I might have spaced out here and there but I was also hyper vigilant because of the bullying and that probably helped me be alert. Oh well..it is a huge topic. thanks for your thoughts ~patricia Re: bullying , I can't even tell you how much I relate to this post. Isn't it just the way that when BP's are angry, suddenly any weaknesses/failings that you have (that they were understanding about when you were doing what THEY wanted you to do) are brought up and they abuse you with them. The first few times that happened with nada I was really upset. I was thinking, " So she was lying all that time and THIS is what she really thinks of me. " Then I realized it was just a tool to make me agree with her. Then we go out into the world, and attract and attract and attract people just like this. I've attracted them all my life. It sucks. And talk about being bullied in school...I have this theory that kids who are being abused in home somehow learn to carry themselves in such a way that other kids who need to bully and abuse weaker kids are just draw to them like bees to honey. It's like the BP parent sends you out to school with a " kick me " sign on your back. So you get abused and abused and abused at home, and then you're abused and abused and abused at school. In your case, add to that the natural put-downs and criticism the ADD child receives from teachers, etc., because they don't learn the way other kids do, and you just weren't getting any support at all. In my case, at least I could make good grades. I think the good opinion of my teachers gave me at least a smidgeon of self-worth. Then there was the sad phenomenon of " falling in love with the teacher, " which happened to me over and over and over until my early twenties. I think it had a lot to do with being raked over the coals so mercilessly at home all the time. I want to know, how many of the rest of us KO's took a hazing in school?? --. ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES I often wondered " Why me? That girl over there is fatter, that girl is uglier, that girl is dorkier, why me? " I think you are answering that question! Deanna > I have this theory that kids who are being abused in home somehow learn to carry themselves in such a way that other kids who need to bully and abuse weaker kids are just draw to them like bees to honey. It's like the BP parent sends you out to school with a " kick me " sign on your back. So you get abused and abused and abused at home, and then you're abused and abused and abused at school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 I do know ...I still question myself sometimes , and usually ask my husband if he thinks I'm over reacting or not reacting enough. if I'm confused.. Jackie Hey Jackie, thanks for the validation..you know how it is..not being sure of one's self, and then at least for me, I try to make it 'okay' because of the 'nice' side of the person. My brother was a super d*** to me last winter over me wanting my mom to re-do a co-signing so I could refinance. Bullying...that's how he was to me when I was young. It hurt and stressed me so much I vowed to never forgive him. (My mom was in no danger of any problems btw with the re-fi, in fact it would put her in a better situation but of course no one could 'get' that). Since then, I have mellowed but, still carry a somewhat bitter feeling. Not the usual *me* but maybe stuff I gotta work through in order to have peace. thanks again patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Hi Deanna, I had the same kinds of thoughts as well. Though I knew those other kids got targeted too, I think that I may have gotten more of it and I don't know why. I remember consciously thinking at a very young age that I had to do that 'fly under the radar' thing. Keep myself un-noticeable. ~patricia Re: bullying YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES I often wondered " Why me? That girl over there is fatter, that girl is uglier, that girl is dorkier, why me? " I think you are answering that question! Deanna > I have this theory that kids who are being abused in home somehow learn to carry themselves in such a way that other kids who need to bully and abuse weaker kids are just draw to them like bees to honey. It's like the BP parent sends you out to school with a " kick me " sign on your back. So you get abused and abused and abused at home, and then you're abused and abused and abused at school. ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2010 Report Share Posted February 14, 2010 Hi Ninera, What this teacher did is unbelievable! I just cannot imagine doing that to a child. What a bitch. One thing value I always had was to remember what it was like to be a child. I decided that at a young age and kept to it. No..You are not who *they* told you you were....You are so much more! ~patricia Re: bullying > To: WTOAdultChildren1 > Date: Sunday, February 14, 2010, 3:30 PM > , > > I can't even tell you how much I relate to this post. > Isn't it just the way that when BP's are angry, suddenly any > weaknesses/failings that you have (that they were > understanding about when you were doing what THEY wanted you > to do) are brought up and they abuse you with them. > The first few times that happened with nada I was really > upset. I was thinking, " So she was lying all that time > and THIS is what she really thinks of me. " Then I > realized it was just a tool to make me agree with her. > > > Then we go out into the world, and attract and attract and > attract people just like this. > > I've attracted them all my life. It sucks. And > talk about being bullied in school...I have this theory that > kids who are being abused in home somehow learn to carry > themselves in such a way that other kids who need to bully > and abuse weaker kids are just draw to them like bees to > honey. It's like the BP parent sends you out to school > with a " kick me " sign on your back. So you get abused > and abused and abused at home, and then you're abused and > abused and abused at school. > > In your case, add to that the natural put-downs and > criticism the ADD child receives from teachers, etc., > because they don't learn the way other kids do, and you just > weren't getting any support at all. In my case, at > least I could make good grades. I think the good > opinion of my teachers gave me at least a smidgeon of > self-worth. Then there was the sad phenomenon of > " falling in love with the teacher, " which happened to me > over and over and over until my early twenties. I > think it had a lot to do with being raked over the coals so > mercilessly at home all the time. > > I want to know, how many of the rest of us KO's took a > hazing in school?? > > --. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... > SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE > GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call > 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to > “Understanding the Borderline Mother†(Lawson) and > “Surviving the Borderline Parent,†(Roth) which you can > find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community > and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I used to be like this too and I hate confrontation, but lately, I have decided I will stand up if I believe something to be wrong. Especially if it involves my kids....I am much better to stand up for them than I am for myself. In a message dated 2/15/2010 12:57:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, vegdeanna@... writes: I should clarify this: I get very angry as well (perhaps not as much as others here), but I always, always just stuff it. I almost never stand up for myself. Deanna > > I'm envious that I haven't been able to stick up for myself the way the two of you have. I cower over the dumbest things. > > On a lighter note, Ashana, when you get frustrated from working with materials, do you ever do this? I know I have!: > > _http://www.hulu.http://wwwhttp://wwwhttp://wwhttp://wwhttp://ww_ (http://www.hulu.com/watch/45112/the-simpsons-building-a-bbq-pit) > > Deanna > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 All of these bullying at school and by " friends " stories are heart breaking.What a terrible,sickening vicious circle to be caught in... Bullying at school was something I could *not* stand.I wasn't one of the kids who got bullied.Nor was I one of the bullies.I wonder if anyone else did what I did,which was to go overboard in the other direction? I still struggle with how to direct my anger in an effective way so that I am simply setting or stating a boundary without going overboard--esp in a situation that seems like it could escalate--and if ever something does escalate I literally have to request a time out or literally just walk away if that isn't given.I'm still at the " walking away " point as an alternative to fighting back when I'm seriously angry and the other person isn't backing down because when that happens,I just get on too much of a roll and I go into this " zone " of cold rage. When I was a kid if anyone my own age tried any crap with me they got it good the first time they did it.Boom.I've always been skilled at physical fighting or skilled at intimidating someone in that way.I never lost a fight--not that I ever sought one out,just woe betide any kid who messed with me--because I knew the value of the overwhelming lightning strike.These " fights " were always over within seconds and what I was doing was so much like how nada treated me that it spooks me.Like,I never called attention to the fight like doing it in the open on the playground: I waited for the right moment and got them back in a corner somewhere,behind a tree,in the bathroom or the cloakroom.With the simple message,just between us: Don't you ever do that again. That is also what nada did: if there was even a hint from me that I might try to stand up to her,she delivered the paralyzing blow of telling me she wished I was dead/she wanted me dead/she would kill me...she went overboard and she was very cold and I have that same deliberate coldness *if* I allow myself to strike back and it spooks me so much I prefer not to even go there.I never learned how to properly own my power to defend myself,so for me doing so feels like a flea or worse.It doesn't feel " right " . The times I quickly dispatched an erstwhile bully didn't make me feel victorious,it made me feel like I had this ugliness in me--way too much pent up rage that was dangerous.And I did have so much pent up rage from being assaulted by people who were bigger and stronger than me and when I got my chance for a more even fight all of that rage coalesced in the moment and I remember seeing the terror in my " victim's " eyes because they could also feel it--and at that precise moment I didn't care.Afterward,it made me feel sick that I could see that terror and not care.Like,what just happened to me? I know that it's going to happen,so I try not to let it happen since once it does I'm in this zone.The angrier I am,the worse it is.Like with my sixth grade pervert teacher,once I decided to fight back,I couldn't stop because he wasn't getting it and desisting right away (again,this is what nada did with me)--and since he hadn't gotten the message right away,I kept doing it to make sure he wouldn't start up his crap again.I couldn't stop.I learned that year that this kind of revenge is a vicious cycle for me and it's best if I don't even start it. One day late in the school year he made some denigrating comment to me (earlier in the year,he had teased me,for example,in front of the entire class about me stuffing my bra with toilet paper,which I didn't do and he knew it--and the fact that he knew that made it like a double dig),when I had thought he had learned by then not to.This so enraged me that I went into the zone without even trying to hold back.I waited for a moment when I could steal the big stapler off his desk and hid it in mine. When he was sitting at his desk writing something and the class was quiet,I took it out and whizzed it very close past his head.It smashed into the blackboard behind him and cracked it.He looked up with terror in his eyes as the stapler went very close past his head and jumped when it hit the blackboard. I said, " Now,what was that you said to me earlier? Because if you say anything like that again,the next time I WILL make sure I don't miss. " His face had gone very white.He sort of whispered, " You could have killed me.... " I told him, " I'd like to kill you.You're lucky I'm not that impulsive,you're a goddamned pervert,you deserve to be dead. " He tried to say something but I went on and on,in this zone of cold rage,detailing what he had done to me all year and that this was truly it and if he dared to try to have me punished for throwing the stapler at him that I swore I would tell the police and if one of us was going to jail,it was going to be him,not me. Once I got home that day and cooled off,I was terrified that he'd report the incident to the police,but he didn't.But more than that,I was terrified to think of how coldly I'd plotted throwing that stapler and of how when I did it,although I purposefully aimed it past his head,that at that exact moment I really had wanted to kill him.That I was actually capable of killing him and not caring at that exact moment--and thought, " He was right.I could have killed him " and that I could never let that happen again,never let myself indulge that feeling again. Poor F,the abused kid I mentioned in another post,thought I was some kind of a hero for doing what I did that day and when we were snow sledding on a hill in our neighborhood and another kid butted in line ahead of me or something he teased them, " Watch out! Don't mess with --you should've seen what she did to Mr P,he was shitting in his pants ha ha ha... " I just don't think that it's right for me to have people " shitting in their pants " .I understand that in that situation I was pushed to an extreme but I am afraid of the power of my own anger.And nowadays when someone is really pushing it with me I walk away,but it's not turning the other cheek--it's just because I won't allow myself to go into the zone. Sorry for the long post,again.I'm confused.I think this is the inverse of being bullied because it's still not knowing how to direct your own power or not knowing how to use it in a healthy way that keeps you both safe and out of trouble. I hope you guys don't think I'm a complete psycho now.That's what being that pissed off feels like for me,like my inner psycho nada possesses me.I know there is who can control it but I haven't figured out yet how to transform it from a spectre that needs to be kept under control into just me reasonably refusing to be mistreated. One last thing: at work in the department I used to be in I had a coworker who was considered by all to be fairly ridiculous because she whined pointlessly about stuff.When I was new,she tried to get an edge over me by saying to someone above us that I'd improperly stored some files when we both knew that wasn't true.I confronted her in private and said to her, " In the future if you have a concern about my work,you need to tell me directly yourself instead of going to Blank and if you think you've discovered a mistake I made,I want to hear it from YOU,not from Blank--and you need to make sure you're right before you open your mouth because you know as well as I do that nothing was wrong with those files. " I was seriously annoyed with her since I absolutely hate being accused of doing something I didn't do,but I was trying very hard not to raise my voice,to not show how really angry I was although I wanted her to know that I was in fact annoyed,mostly I just wanted to state my case reasonably. True to form--and I know this is just what she was like--she told another coworker that I had confronted her about " some issue " and that I had been " scary " ; that " her eyes are really scary when she gets angry " and that she had been " scared " of me.When that got back to me,even though the coworker was laughing about it,this coworker being ridiculous again,I felt damned. Like the worst thing that I can be is " scary " ,that this damns me to being nada.Even when I'm *trying* to simply stand up for myself,nada somehow rears her ugly head.Like,if she saw something in my eyes that was " scary " ,no matter how ridiculous she is,what does that make *me*? Like said,it makes me feel like " the wrongest person alive " . Can anyone who has read this far relate to any of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 , I can completely and utterly relate to your post. I have not really ever harmed anyone, but I have the same cold rage when I'm very angry and I think it *is* scary to other people. I don't feel it's always bad to be scary. If someone is about to harm you, they *should* feel scared to do it. Being scary is a good protection against harm. It's much better than actually needing to hit someone. It protected me as a child against my mother, and it has also protected my students at times from one another, because it made them stop doing something to one another that would cause harm. I think some of what you describe feeling is what parents feel when someone tries to harm their children. It's not such a bad thing. I think we all have the capacity for murderous behavior. Feeling you could have killed your 6th grade teacher doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.  It doesn't make you a bad, evil, scary person like nada. It is about being knowing how to contain it. Nada used had a lot of rage and she used it for power. And, maybe you do have a repository of rage and anger you can draw on to protect yourself that comes from your experiences with nada, but it's not necessarily the same thing. The feeling may be the same, but it doesn't have to be allowed the same full rein or to be used for the same purposes. I had to learn to walk away when I was angry, also. I started doing that as a kid not so much with people, but with things, because I made things a lot and if you get really frustrated and angry when you are working with materials, you end up breaking them. From there, it carried over to how I dealt with people. But my time-outs are generally a lot shorter now, and I can generally calm down within a minute or two without literally walking away, by just kind of going into my head for a minute. For me, it comes down to calming autonomic reflexes--breathing, heart-rate, and so on. And then I'm able to think clearly again. Take care, Ashana Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I'm envious that I haven't been able to stick up for myself the way the two of you have. I cower over the dumbest things. On a lighter note, Ashana, when you get frustrated from working with materials, do you ever do this? I know I have!: http://www.hulu.com/watch/45112/the-simpsons-building-a-bbq-pit Deanna > > , > > I can completely and utterly relate to your post. I have not really ever harmed anyone, but I have the same cold rage when I'm very angry and I think it *is* scary to other people. I don't feel it's always bad to be scary. If someone is about to harm you, they *should* feel scared to do it. Being scary is a good protection against harm. It's much better than actually needing to hit someone. It protected me as a child against my mother, and it has also protected my students at times from one another, because it made them stop doing something to one another that would cause harm. I think some of what you describe feeling is what parents feel when someone tries to harm their children. It's not such a bad thing. > > I think we all have the capacity for murderous behavior. Feeling you could have killed your 6th grade teacher doesn't seem so unreasonable to me. It doesn't make you a bad, evil, scary person like nada. It is about being knowing how to contain it. Nada used had a lot of rage and she used it for power. And, maybe you do have a repository of rage and anger you can draw on to protect yourself that comes from your experiences with nada, but it's not necessarily the same thing. The feeling may be the same, but it doesn't have to be allowed the same full rein or to be used for the same purposes. > > I had to learn to walk away when I was angry, also. I started doing that as a kid not so much with people, but with things, because I made things a lot and if you get really frustrated and angry when you are working with materials, you end up breaking them. From there, it carried over to how I dealt with people. But my time-outs are generally a lot shorter now, and I can generally calm down within a minute or two without literally walking away, by just kind of going into my head for a minute. For me, it comes down to calming autonomic reflexes--breathing, heart-rate, and so on. And then I'm able to think clearly again. > > Take care, > Ashana > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I should clarify this: I get very angry as well (perhaps not as much as others here), but I always, always just stuff it. I almost never stand up for myself. Deanna > > I'm envious that I haven't been able to stick up for myself the way the two of you have. I cower over the dumbest things. > > On a lighter note, Ashana, when you get frustrated from working with materials, do you ever do this? I know I have!: > > http://www.hulu.com/watch/45112/the-simpsons-building-a-bbq-pit > > Deanna > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Right on, Dan!! Get on with your angry self!! You deserve to be angry--good to know you are emotionally defending yourself with some well-deserved anger. Thanks for the " symbolic amputations " concept--that is very helpful to me in my current healing path. > > Bullying pretty well defined school for me. It has defined a large > part of the working world, too. I was sometimes the teacher's pet, > and that made the bullying much worse. Any time I got praised in > class or got a good grade I could count on being beaten during recess > or after school. I eventually started making a point of doing poorly > on my school work, and reducing the literacy level of my spoken > English. It helped some. These are some of the symbolic amputations > I am learning about in therapy. > > I think when you start out being bullied at home, you have " VICTIM " > written all over you and the bullies gather like flies on rotten meat. > > I am feeling very angry right now. Let's gather up all the bullies, > throw them in a room together, and let them reduce each other to > paste. > > - Dan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 Hi , I understand how this behavior of yours affects you so please don't get me wrong, but I wish I had just maybe a tenth of that in me, I really do. I fear and avoid conflict and never say things that I should. And I wish when I was younger I had gotten into the zone and terrorized some kids that were terrorizing me. That being said! I get what you are saying; it feels out of control to you and feels icky; like a malignancy in you. Of course you learned a powerful way to protect yourself; it is pure warrior energy. I think getting warrior training, (if you haven't) like in martial arts, boxing..whatever requires you to go the zone " on purpose " so that you can use that energy, and learn to love it as part of yourself. Learn to play with it, and use it on different degrees of power. ANY kind of extreme of our behaviors can be modulated so they are useful to us. But it takes practice. Of course you need a safe space to practice and learn. You may even need emotional support before/after/during. But please don't through this power away into the: I am just like nada file! None of us can help gaining traits from our parents. Being aware is great though...it gives you a lot of power over it and a lot to work with. Me...I suck it up and hold my feelings in. I began, in my sister's last years, to fight back with her (because I felt sometimes that she was like a bully in our conversations and it pissed me off). I kind of wish now that I didn't do that because she is dead; or rather I wish we had more time to develop our relationship in this way (though we were really close too). I never got in a physical fight, maybe once at school where I got punched by a boy and once I tackled my 'best friend' for being a bitch to me. And once I got into it with my sister, but I never hit anyone....couldn't bring myself to do it. Let me know what you think~ ~patricia Re: bullying All of these bullying at school and by " friends " stories are heart breaking.What a terrible,sickening vicious circle to be caught in... Bullying at school was something I could *not* stand.I wasn't one of the kids who got bullied.Nor was I one of the bullies.I wonder if anyone else did what I did,which was to go overboard in the other direction? I still struggle with how to direct my anger in an effective way so that I am simply setting or stating a boundary without going overboard--esp in a situation that seems like it could escalate--and if ever something does escalate I literally have to request a time out or literally just walk away if that isn't given.I'm still at the " walking away " point as an alternative to fighting back when I'm seriously angry and the other person isn't backing down because when that happens,I just get on too much of a roll and I go into this " zone " of cold rage. When I was a kid if anyone my own age tried any crap with me they got it good the first time they did it.Boom.I've always been skilled at physical fighting or skilled at intimidating someone in that way.I never lost a fight--not that I ever sought one out,just woe betide any kid who messed with me--because I knew the value of the overwhelming lightning strike.These " fights " were always over within seconds and what I was doing was so much like how nada treated me that it spooks me.Like,I never called attention to the fight like doing it in the open on the playground: I waited for the right moment and got them back in a corner somewhere,behind a tree,in the bathroom or the cloakroom.With the simple message,just between us: Don't you ever do that again. That is also what nada did: if there was even a hint from me that I might try to stand up to her,she delivered the paralyzing blow of telling me she wished I was dead/she wanted me dead/she would kill me...she went overboard and she was very cold and I have that same deliberate coldness *if* I allow myself to strike back and it spooks me so much I prefer not to even go there.I never learned how to properly own my power to defend myself,so for me doing so feels like a flea or worse.It doesn't feel " right " . The times I quickly dispatched an erstwhile bully didn't make me feel victorious,it made me feel like I had this ugliness in me--way too much pent up rage that was dangerous.And I did have so much pent up rage from being assaulted by people who were bigger and stronger than me and when I got my chance for a more even fight all of that rage coalesced in the moment and I remember seeing the terror in my " victim's " eyes because they could also feel it--and at that precise moment I didn't care.Afterward,it made me feel sick that I could see that terror and not care.Like,what just happened to me? I know that it's going to happen,so I try not to let it happen since once it does I'm in this zone.The angrier I am,the worse it is.Like with my sixth grade pervert teacher,once I decided to fight back,I couldn't stop because he wasn't getting it and desisting right away (again,this is what nada did with me)--and since he hadn't gotten the message right away,I kept doing it to make sure he wouldn't start up his crap again.I couldn't stop.I learned that year that this kind of revenge is a vicious cycle for me and it's best if I don't even start it. One day late in the school year he made some denigrating comment to me (earlier in the year,he had teased me,for example,in front of the entire class about me stuffing my bra with toilet paper,which I didn't do and he knew it--and the fact that he knew that made it like a double dig),when I had thought he had learned by then not to.This so enraged me that I went into the zone without even trying to hold back.I waited for a moment when I could steal the big stapler off his desk and hid it in mine. When he was sitting at his desk writing something and the class was quiet,I took it out and whizzed it very close past his head.It smashed into the blackboard behind him and cracked it.He looked up with terror in his eyes as the stapler went very close past his head and jumped when it hit the blackboard. I said, " Now,what was that you said to me earlier? Because if you say anything like that again,the next time I WILL make sure I don't miss. " His face had gone very white.He sort of whispered, " You could have killed me.... " I told him, " I'd like to kill you.You're lucky I'm not that impulsive,you're a goddamned pervert,you deserve to be dead. " He tried to say something but I went on and on,in this zone of cold rage,detailing what he had done to me all year and that this was truly it and if he dared to try to have me punished for throwing the stapler at him that I swore I would tell the police and if one of us was going to jail,it was going to be him,not me. Once I got home that day and cooled off,I was terrified that he'd report the incident to the police,but he didn't.But more than that,I was terrified to think of how coldly I'd plotted throwing that stapler and of how when I did it,although I purposefully aimed it past his head,that at that exact moment I really had wanted to kill him.That I was actually capable of killing him and not caring at that exact moment--and thought, " He was right.I could have killed him " and that I could never let that happen again,never let myself indulge that feeling again. Poor F,the abused kid I mentioned in another post,thought I was some kind of a hero for doing what I did that day and when we were snow sledding on a hill in our neighborhood and another kid butted in line ahead of me or something he teased them, " Watch out! Don't mess with --you should've seen what she did to Mr P,he was shitting in his pants ha ha ha... " I just don't think that it's right for me to have people " shitting in their pants " .I understand that in that situation I was pushed to an extreme but I am afraid of the power of my own anger.And nowadays when someone is really pushing it with me I walk away,but it's not turning the other cheek--it's just because I won't allow myself to go into the zone. Sorry for the long post,again.I'm confused.I think this is the inverse of being bullied because it's still not knowing how to direct your own power or not knowing how to use it in a healthy way that keeps you both safe and out of trouble. I hope you guys don't think I'm a complete psycho now.That's what being that pissed off feels like for me,like my inner psycho nada possesses me.I know there is who can control it but I haven't figured out yet how to transform it from a spectre that needs to be kept under control into just me reasonably refusing to be mistreated. One last thing: at work in the department I used to be in I had a coworker who was considered by all to be fairly ridiculous because she whined pointlessly about stuff.When I was new,she tried to get an edge over me by saying to someone above us that I'd improperly stored some files when we both knew that wasn't true.I confronted her in private and said to her, " In the future if you have a concern about my work,you need to tell me directly yourself instead of going to Blank and if you think you've discovered a mistake I made,I want to hear it from YOU,not from Blank--and you need to make sure you're right before you open your mouth because you know as well as I do that nothing was wrong with those files. " I was seriously annoyed with her since I absolutely hate being accused of doing something I didn't do,but I was trying very hard not to raise my voice,to not show how really angry I was although I wanted her to know that I was in fact annoyed,mostly I just wanted to state my case reasonably. True to form--and I know this is just what she was like--she told another coworker that I had confronted her about " some issue " and that I had been " scary " ; that " her eyes are really scary when she gets angry " and that she had been " scared " of me.When that got back to me,even though the coworker was laughing about it,this coworker being ridiculous again,I felt damned. Like the worst thing that I can be is " scary " ,that this damns me to being nada.Even when I'm *trying* to simply stand up for myself,nada somehow rears her ugly head.Like,if she saw something in my eyes that was " scary " ,no matter how ridiculous she is,what does that make *me*? Like said,it makes me feel like " the wrongest person alive " . Can anyone who has read this far relate to any of this? ------------------------------------ Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @.... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I'm with here, I wish I had even a tenth of that. I've been bullied, people have tried to use me, people have tried to force me into relationships (see my recent post) all because I can't summon that up. Perfect strangers have told me I come off like a doormat and it's humiliating. I will say on very rare occasions when pushed extremely far I will feel and act in anger and was told that I was scary. So I guess I've got a little bit of that way deep down, too deep down. I can understand though that being like your nada in a way that was harmful to you is upsetting no matter how useful it is to you. The last thing any of us want is to be like our nadas. All I can say is that's one flea that has probably protected you your whole life - maybe doing therapeutic work designed to make friends with your " shadow side " might be the way to go. > > Hi , > I understand how this behavior of yours affects you so please don't get me wrong, but I wish I had just maybe a tenth of that in me, I really do. I fear and avoid conflict and never say things that I should. And I wish when I was younger I had gotten into the zone and terrorized some kids that were terrorizing me. > That being said! I get what you are saying; it feels out of control to you and feels icky; like a malignancy in you. > Of course you learned a powerful way to protect yourself; it is pure warrior energy. I think getting warrior training, (if you haven't) like in martial arts, boxing..whatever requires you to go the zone " on purpose " so that you can use that energy, and learn to love it as part of yourself. Learn to play with it, and use it on different degrees of power. ANY kind of extreme of our behaviors can be modulated so they are useful to us. But it takes practice. Of course you need a safe space to practice and learn. You may even need emotional support before/after/during. But please don't through this power away into the: I am just like nada file! None of us can help gaining traits from our parents. Being aware is great though...it gives you a lot of power over it and a lot to work with. > > Me...I suck it up and hold my feelings in. I began, in my sister's last years, to fight back with her (because I felt sometimes that she was like a bully in our conversations and it pissed me off). I kind of wish now that I didn't do that because she is dead; or rather I wish we had more time to develop our relationship in this way (though we were really close too). I never got in a physical fight, maybe once at school where I got punched by a boy and once I tackled my 'best friend' for being a bitch to me. And once I got into it with my sister, but I never hit anyone....couldn't bring myself to do it. > Let me know what you think~ > ~patricia > Re: bullying > > > All of these bullying at school and by " friends " stories are heart breaking.What a terrible,sickening vicious circle to be caught in... > > Bullying at school was something I could *not* stand.I wasn't one of the kids who got bullied.Nor was I one of the bullies.I wonder if anyone else did what I did,which was to go overboard in the other direction? I still struggle with how to direct my anger in an effective way so that I am simply setting or stating a boundary without going overboard--esp in a situation that seems like it could escalate--and if ever something does escalate I literally have to request a time out or literally just walk away if that isn't given.I'm still at the " walking away " point as an alternative to fighting back when I'm seriously angry and the other person isn't backing down because when that happens,I just get on too much of a roll and I go into this " zone " of cold rage. > > When I was a kid if anyone my own age tried any crap with me they got it good the first time they did it.Boom.I've always been skilled at physical fighting or skilled at intimidating someone in that way.I never lost a fight--not that I ever sought one out,just woe betide any kid who messed with me--because I knew the value of the overwhelming lightning strike.These " fights " were always over within seconds and what I was doing was so much like how nada treated me that it spooks me.Like,I never called attention to the fight like doing it in the open on the playground: I waited for the right moment and got them back in a corner somewhere,behind a tree,in the bathroom or the cloakroom.With the simple message,just between us: Don't you ever do that again. > > That is also what nada did: if there was even a hint from me that I might try to stand up to her,she delivered the paralyzing blow of telling me she wished I was dead/she wanted me dead/she would kill me...she went overboard and she was very cold and I have that same deliberate coldness *if* I allow myself to strike back and it spooks me so much I prefer not to even go there.I never learned how to properly own my power to defend myself,so for me doing so feels like a flea or worse.It doesn't feel " right " . > > The times I quickly dispatched an erstwhile bully didn't make me feel victorious,it made me feel like I had this ugliness in me--way too much pent up rage that was dangerous.And I did have so much pent up rage from being assaulted by people who were bigger and stronger than me and when I got my chance for a more even fight all of that rage coalesced in the moment and I remember seeing the terror in my " victim's " eyes because they could also feel it--and at that precise moment I didn't care.Afterward,it made me feel sick that I could see that terror and not care.Like,what just happened to me? > > I know that it's going to happen,so I try not to let it happen since once it does I'm in this zone.The angrier I am,the worse it is.Like with my sixth grade pervert teacher,once I decided to fight back,I couldn't stop because he wasn't getting it and desisting right away (again,this is what nada did with me)--and since he hadn't gotten the message right away,I kept doing it to make sure he wouldn't start up his crap again.I couldn't stop.I learned that year that this kind of revenge is a vicious cycle for me and it's best if I don't even start it. > > One day late in the school year he made some denigrating comment to me (earlier in the year,he had teased me,for example,in front of the entire class about me stuffing my bra with toilet paper,which I didn't do and he knew it--and the fact that he knew that made it like a double dig),when I had thought he had learned by then not to.This so enraged me that I went into the zone without even trying to hold back.I waited for a moment when I could steal the big stapler off his desk and hid it in mine. > > When he was sitting at his desk writing something and the class was quiet,I took it out and whizzed it very close past his head.It smashed into the blackboard behind him and cracked it.He looked up with terror in his eyes as the stapler went very close past his head and jumped when it hit the blackboard. > > I said, " Now,what was that you said to me earlier? Because if you say anything like that again,the next time I WILL make sure I don't miss. " > > His face had gone very white.He sort of whispered, " You could have killed me.... " > > I told him, " I'd like to kill you.You're lucky I'm not that impulsive,you're a goddamned pervert,you deserve to be dead. " > > He tried to say something but I went on and on,in this zone of cold rage,detailing what he had done to me all year and that this was truly it and if he dared to try to have me punished for throwing the stapler at him that I swore I would tell the police and if one of us was going to jail,it was going to be him,not me. > > Once I got home that day and cooled off,I was terrified that he'd report the incident to the police,but he didn't.But more than that,I was terrified to think of how coldly I'd plotted throwing that stapler and of how when I did it,although I purposefully aimed it past his head,that at that exact moment I really had wanted to kill him.That I was actually capable of killing him and not caring at that exact moment--and thought, " He was right.I could have killed him " and that I could never let that happen again,never let myself indulge that feeling again. > > Poor F,the abused kid I mentioned in another post,thought I was some kind of a hero for doing what I did that day and when we were snow sledding on a hill in our neighborhood and another kid butted in line ahead of me or something he teased them, " Watch out! Don't mess with --you should've seen what she did to Mr P,he was shitting in his pants ha ha ha... " > > I just don't think that it's right for me to have people " shitting in their pants " .I understand that in that situation I was pushed to an extreme but I am afraid of the power of my own anger.And nowadays when someone is really pushing it with me I walk away,but it's not turning the other cheek--it's just because I won't allow myself to go into the zone. > > Sorry for the long post,again.I'm confused.I think this is the inverse of being bullied because it's still not knowing how to direct your own power or not knowing how to use it in a healthy way that keeps you both safe and out of trouble. > > I hope you guys don't think I'm a complete psycho now.That's what being that pissed off feels like for me,like my inner psycho nada possesses me.I know there is who can control it but I haven't figured out yet how to transform it from a spectre that needs to be kept under control into just me reasonably refusing to be mistreated. > > One last thing: at work in the department I used to be in I had a coworker who was considered by all to be fairly ridiculous because she whined pointlessly about stuff.When I was new,she tried to get an edge over me by saying to someone above us that I'd improperly stored some files when we both knew that wasn't true.I confronted her in private and said to her, " In the future if you have a concern about my work,you need to tell me directly yourself instead of going to Blank and if you think you've discovered a mistake I made,I want to hear it from YOU,not from Blank--and you need to make sure you're right before you open your mouth because you know as well as I do that nothing was wrong with those files. " > > I was seriously annoyed with her since I absolutely hate being accused of doing something I didn't do,but I was trying very hard not to raise my voice,to not show how really angry I was although I wanted her to know that I was in fact annoyed,mostly I just wanted to state my case reasonably. > > True to form--and I know this is just what she was like--she told another coworker that I had confronted her about " some issue " and that I had been " scary " ; that " her eyes are really scary when she gets angry " and that she had been " scared " of me.When that got back to me,even though the coworker was laughing about it,this coworker being ridiculous again,I felt damned. > > Like the worst thing that I can be is " scary " ,that this damns me to being nada.Even when I'm *trying* to simply stand up for myself,nada somehow rears her ugly head.Like,if she saw something in my eyes that was " scary " ,no matter how ridiculous she is,what does that make *me*? Like said,it makes me feel like " the wrongest person alive " . > > Can anyone who has read this far relate to any of this? > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2010 Report Share Posted February 15, 2010 I agree with here...doing some work with the shadow side is a good idea. I was heavily involved with shadow work a few years ago; and probably still would be but had so many things to deal with that I sort of dropped out of it. If you think about it..the thing you hate the most, despise in others (to which I am referring to BPD stuff) will naturally occupy space in our Shadow. The part of ourselves we disown. It's unavoidable. That's why whenever we feel we are like *her* we freak out and then try to go in the opposite direction; sometimes almost mimicking *her* behavior. For example, if I find myself ragging on my son that was like how my mom did it, I then find myself apologizing to him, which she did as well. The only difference is that I will do it calmly and from a place of an adult individualized person. I will also talk to him about HIS behavior too. Yet, during that time in-between....I get upset with myself acting like *her*. As a child, I felt like my waif-mom would absorb me. While a child wants to please her parents, I guess instinct is first and I wanted to preserve my individuality first. And so I kept distance. It has definitely caused me problems with intimacy, revealing myself to those close to me, and parenting. My ex-husband was a lot like my mom in the way that I felt he wanted to absorb me. He had a cold mother who criticized and was worried about appearances and performance (dad too). And so my sweet, feminine, care-free nature appealed to him. And I then rejected him a lot because he would get too close in what I felt was an icky way. He would then do what his mom did to him, to me. Judge and criticize. Instead of breaking out of this pattern, I was stuck in it for almost 20 years! Now that I have been free of that for almost six years now, I feel more like an individual. Though a lonesome one. My boyfriend keeps the parameters of our relationship and I am sort of a doormat to that (as my close friend keeps telling me, though she does not need to!). If I did not love him so much I would not put up with it. I sort of think that I will always have these traits and that my partner in life will trigger me in certain ways and the question is whether or not we can work them through. I feel that my boyfriend and I have worked through things without actually WORKING THROUGH THINGS. Meaning, overdoing the relationship therapy/counseling thing. Sorry, I am rambling. Shadow side....I think it is really a good thing to look at. I think that doing so will release one from the fear of being like *her* (or *him*). Or at least give you a tool to deal with what comes up. ~patricia Re: bullying > > > All of these bullying at school and by " friends " stories are heart breaking.What a terrible,sickening vicious circle to be caught in... > > Bullying at school was something I could *not* stand.I wasn't one of the kids who got bullied.Nor was I one of the bullies.I wonder if anyone else did what I did,which was to go overboard in the other direction? I still struggle with how to direct my anger in an effective way so that I am simply setting or stating a boundary without going overboard--esp in a situation that seems like it could escalate--and if ever something does escalate I literally have to request a time out or literally just walk away if that isn't given.I'm still at the " walking away " point as an alternative to fighting back when I'm seriously angry and the other person isn't backing down because when that happens,I just get on too much of a roll and I go into this " zone " of cold rage. > > When I was a kid if anyone my own age tried any crap with me they got it good the first time they did it.Boom.I've always been skilled at physical fighting or skilled at intimidating someone in that way.I never lost a fight--not that I ever sought one out,just woe betide any kid who messed with me--because I knew the value of the overwhelming lightning strike.These " fights " were always over within seconds and what I was doing was so much like how nada treated me that it spooks me.Like,I never called attention to the fight like doing it in the open on the playground: I waited for the right moment and got them back in a corner somewhere,behind a tree,in the bathroom or the cloakroom.With the simple message,just between us: Don't you ever do that again. > > That is also what nada did: if there was even a hint from me that I might try to stand up to her,she delivered the paralyzing blow of telling me she wished I was dead/she wanted me dead/she would kill me...she went overboard and she was very cold and I have that same deliberate coldness *if* I allow myself to strike back and it spooks me so much I prefer not to even go there.I never learned how to properly own my power to defend myself,so for me doing so feels like a flea or worse.It doesn't feel " right " . > > The times I quickly dispatched an erstwhile bully didn't make me feel victorious,it made me feel like I had this ugliness in me--way too much pent up rage that was dangerous.And I did have so much pent up rage from being assaulted by people who were bigger and stronger than me and when I got my chance for a more even fight all of that rage coalesced in the moment and I remember seeing the terror in my " victim's " eyes because they could also feel it--and at that precise moment I didn't care.Afterward,it made me feel sick that I could see that terror and not care.Like,what just happened to me? > > I know that it's going to happen,so I try not to let it happen since once it does I'm in this zone.The angrier I am,the worse it is.Like with my sixth grade pervert teacher,once I decided to fight back,I couldn't stop because he wasn't getting it and desisting right away (again,this is what nada did with me)--and since he hadn't gotten the message right away,I kept doing it to make sure he wouldn't start up his crap again.I couldn't stop.I learned that year that this kind of revenge is a vicious cycle for me and it's best if I don't even start it. > > One day late in the school year he made some denigrating comment to me (earlier in the year,he had teased me,for example,in front of the entire class about me stuffing my bra with toilet paper,which I didn't do and he knew it--and the fact that he knew that made it like a double dig),when I had thought he had learned by then not to.This so enraged me that I went into the zone without even trying to hold back.I waited for a moment when I could steal the big stapler off his desk and hid it in mine. > > When he was sitting at his desk writing something and the class was quiet,I took it out and whizzed it very close past his head.It smashed into the blackboard behind him and cracked it.He looked up with terror in his eyes as the stapler went very close past his head and jumped when it hit the blackboard. > > I said, " Now,what was that you said to me earlier? Because if you say anything like that again,the next time I WILL make sure I don't miss. " > > His face had gone very white.He sort of whispered, " You could have killed me.... " > > I told him, " I'd like to kill you.You're lucky I'm not that impulsive,you're a goddamned pervert,you deserve to be dead. " > > He tried to say something but I went on and on,in this zone of cold rage,detailing what he had done to me all year and that this was truly it and if he dared to try to have me punished for throwing the stapler at him that I swore I would tell the police and if one of us was going to jail,it was going to be him,not me. > > Once I got home that day and cooled off,I was terrified that he'd report the incident to the police,but he didn't.But more than that,I was terrified to think of how coldly I'd plotted throwing that stapler and of how when I did it,although I purposefully aimed it past his head,that at that exact moment I really had wanted to kill him.That I was actually capable of killing him and not caring at that exact moment--and thought, " He was right.I could have killed him " and that I could never let that happen again,never let myself indulge that feeling again. > > Poor F,the abused kid I mentioned in another post,thought I was some kind of a hero for doing what I did that day and when we were snow sledding on a hill in our neighborhood and another kid butted in line ahead of me or something he teased them, " Watch out! Don't mess with --you should've seen what she did to Mr P,he was shitting in his pants ha ha ha... " > > I just don't think that it's right for me to have people " shitting in their pants " .I understand that in that situation I was pushed to an extreme but I am afraid of the power of my own anger.And nowadays when someone is really pushing it with me I walk away,but it's not turning the other cheek--it's just because I won't allow myself to go into the zone. > > Sorry for the long post,again.I'm confused.I think this is the inverse of being bullied because it's still not knowing how to direct your own power or not knowing how to use it in a healthy way that keeps you both safe and out of trouble. > > I hope you guys don't think I'm a complete psycho now.That's what being that pissed off feels like for me,like my inner psycho nada possesses me.I know there is who can control it but I haven't figured out yet how to transform it from a spectre that needs to be kept under control into just me reasonably refusing to be mistreated. > > One last thing: at work in the department I used to be in I had a coworker who was considered by all to be fairly ridiculous because she whined pointlessly about stuff.When I was new,she tried to get an edge over me by saying to someone above us that I'd improperly stored some files when we both knew that wasn't true.I confronted her in private and said to her, " In the future if you have a concern about my work,you need to tell me directly yourself instead of going to Blank and if you think you've discovered a mistake I made,I want to hear it from YOU,not from Blank--and you need to make sure you're right before you open your mouth because you know as well as I do that nothing was wrong with those files. " > > I was seriously annoyed with her since I absolutely hate being accused of doing something I didn't do,but I was trying very hard not to raise my voice,to not show how really angry I was although I wanted her to know that I was in fact annoyed,mostly I just wanted to state my case reasonably. > > True to form--and I know this is just what she was like--she told another coworker that I had confronted her about " some issue " and that I had been " scary " ; that " her eyes are really scary when she gets angry " and that she had been " scared " of me.When that got back to me,even though the coworker was laughing about it,this coworker being ridiculous again,I felt damned. > > Like the worst thing that I can be is " scary " ,that this damns me to being nada.Even when I'm *trying* to simply stand up for myself,nada somehow rears her ugly head.Like,if she saw something in my eyes that was " scary " ,no matter how ridiculous she is,what does that make *me*? Like said,it makes me feel like " the wrongest person alive " . > > Can anyone who has read this far relate to any of this? > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ashana,thanks.I'm glad you were able to use your " scary " to protect yourself from your nada--with mine that only made it worse since she had convinced herself I was pure evil---scary AND evil would have been a bit much...but I get what you're saying about using my " scary " to protect myself out in the world,protect myself from harm and I do when necessary and I also think it's a good thing if I'm in a situation that might harm me or others.With strangers that's not a big deal,but in more personal scenarios I'd like to just be an effective boundary setter. I like what you mentioned about how some of what I feel is how a parent would feel if someone tried to harm their children.I've thought that before,that fada should have felt outrage instead of indifference that another man was molesting his daughter--and I can imagine a father wanting to kill the man who did that to his kid.I was feeling that in a sort of vaccuum of every adult I knew,it seemed,telling me what a horrible person *I* was--but that is still what the feeling was--and it helps alot to have that seconded by someone else. Thanks again > > , > > I can completely and utterly relate to your post. I have not really ever harmed anyone, but I have the same cold rage when I'm very angry and I think it *is* scary to other people. I don't feel it's always bad to be scary. If someone is about to harm you, they *should* feel scared to do it. Being scary is a good protection against harm. It's much better than actually needing to hit someone. It protected me as a child against my mother, and it has also protected my students at times from one another, because it made them stop doing something to one another that would cause harm. I think some of what you describe feeling is what parents feel when someone tries to harm their children. It's not such a bad thing. > > I think we all have the capacity for murderous behavior. Feeling you could have killed your 6th grade teacher doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.  It doesn't make you a bad, evil, scary person like nada. It is about being knowing how to contain it. Nada used had a lot of rage and she used it for power. And, maybe you do have a repository of rage and anger you can draw on to protect yourself that comes from your experiences with nada, but it's not necessarily the same thing. The feeling may be the same, but it doesn't have to be allowed the same full rein or to be used for the same purposes. > > I had to learn to walk away when I was angry, also. I started doing that as a kid not so much with people, but with things, because I made things a lot and if you get really frustrated and angry when you are working with materials, you end up breaking them. From there, it carried over to how I dealt with people. But my time-outs are generally a lot shorter now, and I can generally calm down within a minute or two without literally walking away, by just kind of going into my head for a minute. For me, it comes down to calming autonomic reflexes--breathing, heart-rate, and so on. And then I'm able to think clearly again. > > Take care, > Ashana > > > Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW! http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 ,your " pure warrior energy " idea is really great I agree that's what it is and I need to get in contact with it in a better way.I wish you had gotten into the zone,too: those kids sounded like they needed a little taste of their own medicine. I've thought of doing some form of martial arts.I've just been concerned about how I'd handle any conflict or fighting like scenario for fear that,well,I'd go into the zone.Although actually training myself in a discipline would probably go some way,like you say,towards learning how to direct it.I also like the meditative/spiritual aspect of the martial arts.I'd need to find someone I could explain my issue to,though,someone who wouldn't be put off by it.Or who would take it seriously: I'm small and slight and if it's a guy he might be like,Oh sure mmm hmmm,that won't be a problem little lady...You know,I've traveled around quite a bit on my own and there were a couple of times when men decided to attack me I suppose based on my size but they found out very quickly that that had been a very stupid idea--and in fact my size is an advantage since it affords me a total element of surprise,they aren't expecting a fight at all and that gave me precious seconds to catch THEM offguard and keep THEM there-ha. But when you think of it,there is a tradition of women in the martial arts,like in Chinese movies such as " Hidden Tiger/Crouching Dragon " which I loved...I don't know of any martial arts place around here that's just for women.But you're right,I do need to look into it finally. And,oh,this was in another post of yours,but I thought what your son said to you about not having to hit below the belt was really cute. Thanks again for your support and insight,it's very much appreciated by me > > Hi , > I understand how this behavior of yours affects you so please don't get me wrong, but I wish I had just maybe a tenth of that in me, I really do. I fear and avoid conflict and never say things that I should. And I wish when I was younger I had gotten into the zone and terrorized some kids that were terrorizing me. > That being said! I get what you are saying; it feels out of control to you and feels icky; like a malignancy in you. > Of course you learned a powerful way to protect yourself; it is pure warrior energy. I think getting warrior training, (if you haven't) like in martial arts, boxing..whatever requires you to go the zone " on purpose " so that you can use that energy, and learn to love it as part of yourself. Learn to play with it, and use it on different degrees of power. ANY kind of extreme of our behaviors can be modulated so they are useful to us. But it takes practice. Of course you need a safe space to practice and learn. You may even need emotional support before/after/during. But please don't through this power away into the: I am just like nada file! None of us can help gaining traits from our parents. Being aware is great though...it gives you a lot of power over it and a lot to work with. > > Me...I suck it up and hold my feelings in. I began, in my sister's last years, to fight back with her (because I felt sometimes that she was like a bully in our conversations and it pissed me off). I kind of wish now that I didn't do that because she is dead; or rather I wish we had more time to develop our relationship in this way (though we were really close too). I never got in a physical fight, maybe once at school where I got punched by a boy and once I tackled my 'best friend' for being a bitch to me. And once I got into it with my sister, but I never hit anyone....couldn't bring myself to do it. > Let me know what you think~ > ~patricia > > > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP. > > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL () for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community! > > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and the SWOE Workbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2010 Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 Exactly! And that's what I'm trying to now teach myself--appropriate standing up for myself. Right now, I most need to work on the timing....seems like I come up with the thing to say several minutes after the episode. -lisa > > > > > > TOTALLY!! I didn't have it quite as severely as you describe, but yes, bullied > > in elementary school. I have a theory about this, because I do feel like > > there's something I somehow exude to let people know that if they get > > aggressive/confrontational, I'll back down. Like a big " kick me " sign. Kind of > > like how dogs know when people are afraid of them. It happens all the time to > > me in subtle and not so subtle ways. > > Or, because you grew up in a family where the parent did this to you, and did not teach you by example to stand up for yourself, as you were supposed to have been taught. I have never seen the sign-but noticed when I got an assertiveness textbook, and used it in self defense, people stopped. It wasn't due to a sign, it was due to a lack of skills and understanding about my having a right to exist independent of other people's opinions about me. > > Even Jesus said you can fight back. And he didn't put up with much when he was able to say something to the pharisees. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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