Re: OK, Janie needs your input on HER problem

[Guest guest]

OK, Janie needs your input on HER problem

> Now it's my turn to get ideas from all of you!!

> For the last few months, I have been getting late afternoon

> depression and a slighty achy fatigue. On January 10th, I tested my

> testosterone, Estradiol and Progesterone, plus my free's. I also got

> my Ferritin tested.

Is the severity of these symptoms approximately the same on every day

of the week?

Are they the same on the weekend?

> My Ferritin had dropped from 42 (Aug. of 2003) to 32. Too low. It

> needs to be closer to 70. So I've been supplementing with ferrous

> sulfate since then, and added Vitamin C in high quantity to the mix

> just over a week ago.

> My estrogen was low at 43 (she wants to see it at 80-90), so I've

> been supplementing with that (1 mg daily). I am probably peri-meno.

Type of estrogen and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

> My progesterone was 1.7, which is low, and I've been supplementing

> with that (25 mgs daily).

Type of progesterone and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

> My DHEA was low at 34 (range: 26-200), so I've been supplementing

> with that!! We are guessing that the stress of my store raised my

> cortisol, which lowered my DHEA.

Did your doctor measure your pregnenolone level?

> My free's were wonderful and my free T3 was over the range.

> NONE of the supplementation above has changed a thing. I still get

> late afternoon low-grade depression which lasts until I go to bed,

> and that slightly achey run-down fatigue.

How often do you take the thyroid?

Have you tried taking it every 3 hours from arising till evening?

If you only take it once or twice a day, you could be crashing from

the drop in your T3 blood level.

> I had originally surmissed that my female hormones were the culprit.

> I had gotten off of ALL hormones late last Fall. But there has been

> no progress since I've been back on female hormones.

> A low DHEA causes depression. So I had been supplementing with that.

> Nothing. Maybe I need more?? And what about the slight achiness I

> get in the late afternoon?

> Maybe my iron is STILL not high enough? But after 2 months of

> supplementation?? I've always leaned towards believing this is a

> low iron situation, but no progress after 2 months of

> supplementation??

> I tried Isocort last year and into January, but didn't feel like it

> did a thing.

Have you had any adrenal testing?

Have you tried taking a small dose of Cortef (e.g., 5-10 mg) taken in

a tapered multi-dose schedule (i.e., largest dose in the morning,

smallest dose in the late afternoon or early evening)?

> I take plenty of B vitamins and C, minerals, etc.

But you need to be sure that those supplements are well-balanced.

Otherwise, you risk creating toxicities or deficiencies.

What form of B do you take?

Do you take a co-enzyme form of B-complex, such as the one made by

Jarrow ( http://jarrow.com/products/BRIGHT.htm )? Some people have a

problem converting the B-vitamins to the active, co-enzyme forms.

For me, the co-enzyme forms of B-vitamins that helped the most with

fatigue were pyridoxal-5-phosphate (many brands available) and TTFD

(thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) (Ecological Formulas brand). I

also found sublingual B12 (as methylcobalamin) energizing. I take the

1000 mcg sublingual tablet made by Jarrow (

http://jarrow.com/products/Methylcobalamin.htm# ).

> I will appreciate any stabs or ideas!!!!

Do you drink coffee or espresso?

Could it be a food allergy? Do you eat the same thing for breakfast

or lunch every day? Have you tried skipping breakfast and/or lunch to

see what happens?

Neurotransmitter deficiency? Try adding (1) 5-HTP and/or (2) tyrosine

phenylalanine, or DL-phenylalanine.

> Janie )

[Guest guest]

> Is the severity of these symptoms approximately the same on every

day of the week?

Same every day. The depression will start in the mid afternoon. The

achiness/sleepiness will hit around 4-5 pm, sometimes later. I'll

lay on the couch, getting sleepier and sleepier, and more achy. I'll

sleep, and still wake up achy. After a few hours, I'll feel a little

better, but I can still tell something is there. It's all like a

severe drop in the mid-to-late afternoon, and a pickup by 8 pm.

> Type of estrogen and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

I am taking Oestragel from France. 1 mg. at night.

> Type of progesterone and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

I've been erratic with my progesterone, but it's troche's twice a

day, 12.5 mg each. I usually only get one done daily though. Again,

last Jan. my estrogen was 40 and my progesterone was 1.7, mid cycle.

> Did your doctor measure your pregnenolone level?

No. Should she?

> How often do you take the thyroid?

I'm not sure my Armour is the problem. I do sublingual. First amount

is 1 3/4 grain around 10 am. Second one grain dose is around 2 pm.

That has always served me well......no crashing. (I seemed to start

a progression towards this afternoon crashing after I stopped all

female hormones last Fall, but it's remained even being back on.)

The last two days I tried one grain in AM, one grain around noon,

and another grain by 2:30. Same fatigue/achiness around 5 pm, and in

fact, worse than normal...

> Have you had any adrenal testing?

1989. Normal. But of course, that was a long time ago, and I haven't

noticed adrenal issues. I did try Isocort off and on the past year---

noticed nothing. I have even wondered if my adrenal output is

becoming pitiful in the late afternoon.......in early evening, my

heart pounds, though not fast for me. 86 BPM, but I have MVP, so

that's normal.

> What form of B do you take?

I take two capsules of Vitamin Cottage POWER B HI POTENCY B COMPLEX

WITH C every morning.

> For me, the co-enzyme forms of B-vitamins that helped the most with

> fatigue were pyridoxal-5-phosphate (many brands available) and TTFD

> (thiamine tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) (Ecological Formulas >

>brand). I also found sublingual B12 (as methylcobalamin)

>energizing. I take the 1000 mcg sublingual tablet made by Jarrow (

> http://jarrow.com/products/Methylcobalamin.htm# ).

Sounds interesting. I'll look into it.

> Do you drink coffee or espresso? Could it be a food allergy?

I don't notice any connection to food. And my decaf coffee

consumption is only one cup a day, if even that.

> Neurotransmitter deficiency? Try adding (1) 5-HTP and/or (2)

>tyrosine phenylalanine, or DL-phenylalanine.

Could that happen suddenly, like this has to me over the past 4

months??

Janie

[Guest guest]

Hi, Janie,

I get this " droopiness " thing from time to time, too. Since I now have

that extra 1/4 grain of armour to play with, I use that to overcome the

" droopies " by taking it about an hour after lunch. Apparently I needed the

extra " boost " from the T3 because I rarely have more than a few minutes

(read as less than 30 minutes) of the " droopies " now.

Since I am also on the Hypoglycemic side, I have concentrated on getting

more protein than carbs in my lunches. Since I cannot always do that, I

still have the " let down " in the afternoons when I have eaten too high on

carbs at lunchtime.

Just tossing some thoughts your way....

Dianne

[Guest guest]

Hi Dianne. I sure appreciate your willingness to throw some ideas my

way!! Right now, I don't think it's not enough Armour, or the way I

eat. I eat a high protein breakfast and lunch, and I am on a great

amount of Armour with a high fT3.

Sigh. Something else is wrong here. I can pinpoint some definite

issues though, which I can't figure out are related or not (the low

estrogen, the fair progesterone but low, the low DHEA, the low

Ferritin). But, I've been supplementing all of those the past two

months, to no avail. Today, for example, I did comfortable relaxing

activities, and I still crashed around 4 p.m, sleepy tired, achy--

which waxed and waned all evening. I'll wake up feeling pretty good

and will stay that way.........until mid-to-late afternoon.

Geez.

Janie

> I get this " droopiness " thing from time to time, too. Since I now

>have that extra 1/4 grain of armour to play with, I use that to

>overcome the " droopies " by taking it about an hour after lunch.

>Apparently I needed the extra " boost " from the T3 because I rarely

>have more than a few minutes (read as less than 30 minutes) of

>the " droopies " now.

>

> Since I am also on the Hypoglycemic side, I have concentrated on

>getting more protein than carbs in my lunches.

[Guest guest]

Hi there ,

You have so much covered and I am new at most of this , but look up these web

sites...you might read someting that you like...

www.holisticonline.com/remedies/Arthritis/arth_DLPA.htm

www.pinnacleplus.com/product_information/dl-phenylalanine.html

www.madman-bbs.dyndns.org/mirrors/healing%20Tools?healingtools.tripod.com/dlpa.h\

tml

loboshe wrote:

Now it's my turn to get ideas from all of you!!

For the last few months, I have been getting late afternoon

depression and a slighty achy fatigue. On January 10th, I tested my

testosterone, Estradiol and Progesterone, plus my free's. I also got

my Ferritin tested.

My Ferritin had dropped from 42 (Aug. of 2003) to 32. Too low. It

needs to be closer to 70. So I've been supplementing with ferrous

sulfate since then, and added Vitamin C in high quantity to the mix

just over a week ago.

My estrogen was low at 43 (she wants to see it at 80-90), so I've

been supplementing with that (1 mg daily). I am probably peri-meno.

My progesterone was 1.7, which is low, and I've been supplementing

with that (25 mgs daily).

My DHEA was low at 34 (range: 26-200), so I've been supplementing

with that!! We are guessing that the stress of my store raised my

cortisol, which lowered my DHEA.

My free's were wonderful and my free T3 was over the range.

NONE of the supplementation above has changed a thing. I still get

late afternoon low-grade depression which lasts until I go to bed,

and that slightly achey run-down fatigue.

I had originally surmissed that my female hormones were the culprit.

I had gotten off of ALL hormones late last Fall. But there has been

no progress since I've been back on female hormones.

A low DHEA causes depression. So I had been supplementing with that.

Nothing. Maybe I need more?? And what about the slight achiness I

get in the late afternoon?

Maybe my iron is STILL not high enough? But after 2 months of

supplementation?? I've always leaned towards believing this is a

low iron situation, but no progress after 2 months of

supplementation??

I tried Isocort last year and into January, but didn't feel like it

did a thing.

I take plenty of B vitamins and C, minerals, etc.

I will appreciate any stabs or ideas!!!!

Janie )

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Janie: I can understand your frustration. I tend to run low in those areas and

often because of the many chemical imbalances have been depressed. I do know

that excess fatigue can bring on depression. Also it took me a very long time

to come to grips with the fact that never ever again in life will I have the

same energy flow that I had prior to thyroid disease. Iron levels do take time

to raise and keep consistent. When my iron is down I suffer from mental

confusion, fatigue, and depression.

Because my depression caused me to experience sleeplessness I took Trazadone for

a time. It was an antidepressant and sedative combo. Just keep checking your

levels and see what changes and what symptoms fall into what area of lack. This

disease requires a lot of patience cause it usually takes at least 3 months to

get results. Hope and pray that all is brought into line for you. Please just

be patient and keep trying.

and :Thank you very much for the information on Nature Thyroid

Hormone and for writing. Have a Blessed Day!

john and christina barry wrote:

Hi there ,

You have so much covered and I am new at most of this , but look up these web

sites...you might read someting that you like...

www.holisticonline.com/remedies/Arthritis/arth_DLPA.htm

www.pinnacleplus.com/product_information/dl-phenylalanine.html

www.madman-bbs.dyndns.org/mirrors/healing%20Tools?healingtools.tripod.com/dlpa.h\

tml

loboshe wrote:

Now it's my turn to get ideas from all of you!!

For the last few months, I have been getting late afternoon

depression and a slighty achy fatigue. On January 10th, I tested my

testosterone, Estradiol and Progesterone, plus my free's. I also got

my Ferritin tested.

My Ferritin had dropped from 42 (Aug. of 2003) to 32. Too low. It

needs to be closer to 70. So I've been supplementing with ferrous

sulfate since then, and added Vitamin C in high quantity to the mix

just over a week ago.

My estrogen was low at 43 (she wants to see it at 80-90), so I've

been supplementing with that (1 mg daily). I am probably peri-meno.

My progesterone was 1.7, which is low, and I've been supplementing

with that (25 mgs daily).

My DHEA was low at 34 (range: 26-200), so I've been supplementing

with that!! We are guessing that the stress of my store raised my

cortisol, which lowered my DHEA.

My free's were wonderful and my free T3 was over the range.

NONE of the supplementation above has changed a thing. I still get

late afternoon low-grade depression which lasts until I go to bed,

and that slightly achey run-down fatigue.

I had originally surmissed that my female hormones were the culprit.

I had gotten off of ALL hormones late last Fall. But there has been

no progress since I've been back on female hormones.

A low DHEA causes depression. So I had been supplementing with that.

Nothing. Maybe I need more?? And what about the slight achiness I

get in the late afternoon?

Maybe my iron is STILL not high enough? But after 2 months of

supplementation?? I've always leaned towards believing this is a

low iron situation, but no progress after 2 months of

supplementation??

I tried Isocort last year and into January, but didn't feel like it

did a thing.

I take plenty of B vitamins and C, minerals, etc.

I will appreciate any stabs or ideas!!!!

Janie )

---------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Re: OK, Janie needs your input on HER problem

>> Is the severity of these symptoms approximately the same on every

> day of the week?

> Same every day. The depression will start in the mid afternoon. The

> achiness/sleepiness will hit around 4-5 pm, sometimes later. I'll

> lay on the couch, getting sleepier and sleepier, and more achy. I'll

> sleep, and still wake up achy. After a few hours, I'll feel a little

> better, but I can still tell something is there. It's all like a

> severe drop in the mid-to-late afternoon, and a pickup by 8 pm.

>> Type of estrogen and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

> I am taking Oestragel from France. 1 mg. at night.

Have you tried taking this in the morning? Or try taking it

in a multi-dose manner throughout the day.

>> Type of progesterone and delivery mode (oral, sublingual, patch)?

> I've been erratic with my progesterone, but it's troche's twice a

> day, 12.5 mg each. I usually only get one done daily though. Again,

> last Jan. my estrogen was 40 and my progesterone was 1.7, mid cycle.

Do you take one dose right before bedtime? To reduce fatigue, estrogen

should be taken during the day and progesterone at night.

>> Did your doctor measure your pregnenolone level?

> No. Should she?

You may need additional pregnenolone if it is low.

>> How often do you take the thyroid?

> I'm not sure my Armour is the problem. I do sublingual. First amount

> is 1 3/4 grain around 10 am. Second one grain dose is around 2 pm.

> That has always served me well......no crashing. (I seemed to start

> a progression towards this afternoon crashing after I stopped all

> female hormones last Fall, but it's remained even being back on.)

> The last two days I tried one grain in AM, one grain around noon,

> and another grain by 2:30. Same fatigue/achiness around 5 pm, and in

> fact, worse than normal...

Try taking one-half grain every 3 hours, 5 times a day. You won't

know if this might help unless you do it.

[Guest guest]

> Do you take one dose right before bedtime? To reduce fatigue,

>estrogen should be taken during the day and progesterone at night.

, that is interesting. Can you give us more info to explain why

that would be the case?

Janie