Guest guest Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 So, I'm feeling somewhat frustrated...and confused. :/ I was diagnosed with CD a little over two years ago and have been gluten-free ever since--and feeling great!! I feel that I've really adapted to the GF lifestyle. Ever since I was first diagnosed I've tried really hard to keep up with the latest news, recipes, etc, and I really try to let people know that CD is out there (without seeming pushy or anything, of course). I'm also very clear about the fact that this is an intolerance, not an allergy (even though my roommate still does not seem to understand the difference after 2+ years, and my family sometimes doesn't get it). Anyhow...we always read that it's a gluten intolerance vs an allergy. So, now the confusion... Ever since I was diagnosed, I've been trying to get my family to get tested. But they are all stubborn, despite the fact that my mother, my brother and one of my little sisters all seem to have some sort of a GI disorder. Now, two years later, my little sister is finally getting tested. Her blood tests came back positive, so her doctor sent her down to University of MD, where she just had her first appt with one of the TOP CD doctors. And he had some interesting things to say... He told my parents that very few people actually have CD. In fact, he told my parents that he could almost guarantee them that I do not actually have the disease (after my parents told him all of my extreme symptoms I had prior to going GF and the symptoms I have if I accidently ingest gluten). He says that what all of us claiming to have CD really have is an allergy to gluten. (He said that the test to determine whether or not one really has CD or not is outrageously expensive) He told my parents that if I really did have CD, my body would not show any symptoms/I would not react to accidently eating gluten. Rather, it would be a slow process and, eventually, symptoms would show up and it would be apparent that I had ingested gluten. The doctor told my parents that those of us with these types of symptoms actually are allergic to gluten (that's why we have the symptoms if we accidently eat it) and are not truly intolerant to it. The doctor insists that with this " gluten allergy, " we could, in fact, out-grown our sensitivity and be able to eat gluten once again. The thing is--who really wants to try this intentionally? (The doctor himself admitted this). So, my parents obviously told him everything that I had told them from my " research " after being diagnosed (how it's an intolerance vs an allergy, my symptoms, etc) and the doctor now wants to meet with ME and talk with me. And I'm just really confused about all the stuff he is saying. To go along with that... The daughter of a close family friend was diagnosed as having " gluten sensitivity " and has been GF for the past 6 years. She just recently re-introduced gluten into her diet and is completely fine! The doctor told her that her sensitivity was caused by stress, and she can now eat gluten again. My parents feel that this case supports the " gluten allergy " belief/thought. I'm just really confused because everything this TOP doctor is saying seems to contradict everything I thought I knew about CD. I'm really perfectly fine being GF because I know that I'm healthy now! But this just throws me for a loop! Can someone help? Has anyone else heard this? I'd appreciate any comments on this! Sincerely, Gaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 ita- My sister actually saw Swati Gadewar (a female dr). During their visit, Karoly Horvath (a male doctor) came in to speak with my sister and parents and told them everything I shared in my email. Gadewar was in agreement with Horvath, who is the doctor who said it isn't even worth it to get the genetic test done to see whether or not you have CD b/c, as he says, he would bet money that you don't ( " you " meaning me, you, anyone with CD).Dr. Horvath is also the doctor who said he would like to see me and he actually recommended that I see Dr. Fasano, too. He seemed to give the impression that the whole group of doctors-Fasano included- " preach the same thing. " I appreciated your response, ita--exactly what I was thinking! When my parents told me about their little excursion down to Univ. of MD, I immediately went into a frenzy, going off about how they saw one of those " bad " CD doctors who don't really understand, or even believe in, CD! Aaagghhh! I'm so confused! - > Who was this " Top " doctor at the University of MD? Dr. Alessio Fasano is > the TOP doctor at University of MD and he would NEVER say those things. > > ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 First, I am not a doctor, but this is the way I understand it. (I am a biopsy and serologically diagnosed celiac.) Celiac disease and gluten allergies are discovered by different tests. Allergies are generally tested via " IgE " testing - classic allergy testing. There are some who believe that IgG testing may further give information to an " intolerance " that causes symptoms, but NO ongoing damage. Celiac disease is investigated through anti-tissue transglutaminase IgA testing (and anit-endomysial testing), and a small bowel biopsy showing flattened villi and an increase in intraepethelial lymphocytes, and sometime crypt hypoplasia. While allergies can cause GI symptoms, they are not widely known to cause the specific intestinal damage that is associated with CD. I have 1 daughter who is not celiac, but is gluten intolerant. (Her blood work for celiac came back negative, and her biopsy was negative - she is not IgA deficient.) She may grow out of this some day, but for now she reacts quite negatively to any amount of gluten. I would hesitate to allow her to try it again for some time. My other daughter and I are celiac. You can get good informationm from the University of Chicago Celiac Disease Program. I am sure they would be happy to provide you with some excellent sources of good, reliable information that is up to date. You can do your own search on www.pubmed.com, and hopefully find some info to help educate this Doctor, who is living in the dark ages of celiac disease. Good luck to you. Suzie in AZ Intolerance? Allergy? Can someone help clear this up? > > > So, I'm feeling somewhat frustrated...and confused. :/ > I was diagnosed with CD a little over two years ago and have been > gluten-free ever since--and feeling great!! I feel that I've really > adapted to the GF lifestyle. Ever since I was first diagnosed I've > tried really hard to keep up with the latest news, recipes, etc, and > I really try to let people know that CD is out there (without > seeming pushy or anything, of course). I'm also very clear about the > fact that this is an intolerance, not an allergy (even though my > roommate still does not seem to understand the difference after 2+ > years, and my family sometimes doesn't get it). Anyhow...we always > read that it's a gluten intolerance vs an allergy. So, now the > confusion... > > Ever since I was diagnosed, I've been trying to get my family to get > tested. But they are all stubborn, despite the fact that my mother, > my brother and one of my little sisters all seem to have some sort > of a GI disorder. Now, two years later, my little sister is finally > getting tested. Her blood tests came back positive, so her doctor > sent her down to University of MD, where she just had her first appt > with one of the TOP CD doctors. And he had some interesting things > to say... > He told my parents that very few people actually have CD. In fact, > he told my parents that he could almost guarantee them that I do not > actually have the disease (after my parents told him all of my > extreme symptoms I had prior to going GF and the symptoms I have if > I accidently ingest gluten). He says that what all of us claiming to > have CD really have is an allergy to gluten. (He said that the test > to determine whether or not one really has CD or not is outrageously > expensive) He told my parents that if I really did have CD, my body > would not show any symptoms/I would not react to accidently eating > gluten. Rather, it would be a slow process and, eventually, symptoms > would show up and it would be apparent that I had ingested gluten. > The doctor told my parents that those of us with these types of > symptoms actually are allergic to gluten (that's why we have the > symptoms if we accidently eat it) and are not truly intolerant to > it. The doctor insists that with this " gluten allergy, " we could, in > fact, out-grown our sensitivity and be able to eat gluten once > again. The thing is--who really wants to try this intentionally? > (The doctor himself admitted this). So, my parents obviously told > him everything that I had told them from my " research " after being > diagnosed (how it's an intolerance vs an allergy, my symptoms, etc) > and the doctor now wants to meet with ME and talk with me. And I'm > just really confused about all the stuff he is saying. > > To go along with that... > The daughter of a close family friend was diagnosed as > having " gluten sensitivity " and has been GF for the past 6 years. > She just recently re-introduced gluten into her diet and is > completely fine! The doctor told her that her sensitivity was caused > by stress, and she can now eat gluten again. My parents feel that > this case supports the " gluten allergy " belief/thought. > > I'm just really confused because everything this TOP doctor is > saying seems to contradict everything I thought I knew about CD. I'm > really perfectly fine being GF because I know that I'm healthy now! > But this just throws me for a loop! Can someone help? Has anyone > else heard this? > > I'd appreciate any comments on this! > > Sincerely, > Gaines > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 20, 2005 Report Share Posted February 20, 2005 i would take them up on their offer to see Dr. Fasano, then I'd question him up and down...funny, they sell those CD bracelets for research. What are they doing with the money if they don't believe in it?? ;-) I have to agree about the gene test, even if you have the gene it doesn't mean you'll have CD. It just means you COULD get CD. Bridget ________________________________ From: jjangel_23 Sent: Sun 2/20/2005 1:08 PM To: SillyYaks Subject: Re: Intolerance? Allergy? Can someone help clear this up? ita- My sister actually saw Swati Gadewar (a female dr). During their visit, Karoly Horvath (a male doctor) came in to speak with my sister and parents and told them everything I shared in my email. Gadewar was in agreement with Horvath, who is the doctor who said it isn't even worth it to get the genetic test done to see whether or not you have CD b/c, as he says, he would bet money that you don't ( " you " meaning me, you, anyone with CD).Dr. Horvath is also the doctor who said he would like to see me and he actually recommended that I see Dr. Fasano, too. He seemed to give the impression that the whole group of doctors-Fasano included- " preach the same thing. " I appreciated your response, ita--exactly what I was thinking! When my parents told me about their little excursion down to Univ. of MD, I immediately went into a frenzy, going off about how they saw one of those " bad " CD doctors who don't really understand, or even believe in, CD! Aaagghhh! I'm so confused! - > Who was this " Top " doctor at the University of MD? Dr. Alessio Fasano is > the TOP doctor at University of MD and he would NEVER say those things. > > ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 > I read that a true allergy is where you have severe, life- threatening results if you eat the food you are allergic to, and that an intolerance means you can tolerate a small amount without getting sick. Also, I met someone who " had " celiac disease and is now fine and can eat whatever she wants. Who knows??? > An intolerance is a reactivity to a food in which some non-immune chemsitry is involved. For example Phenylketouriacs are intolerant to phenylalanine, Lactose intolerance means you lack a factors for metabolizing lactose (whereas the bacteria in your gut do not, and they go hog wild with the windfall of milk sugar -> CO2 -> Gas). The intolerance of CD is the result of the reactivity of gliadin with tTG therefore altering the nature of gliadin and the immunogenicity of tTG. Why tTG misbehaves toward gliadin is unclear, but it has something to do with intestinal damage. CD is perpetuated by the gliadin/ tTG reaction cycle in DQ2.3 and DQ8 individuals via an immune process. Therefore 1. The Immune system is a mediator 2. tTG is a mediator. 3. DQ molecules mediate 4. Unknown factors mediate. For other food allergies it appears that #2 tTG is not a mediator. Therefore CD is an allergy with other added components that transform the downstream responses to gluten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2005 Report Share Posted February 21, 2005 > First, I am not a doctor, but this is the way I understand it. (I am a > biopsy and serologically diagnosed celiac.) > > Celiac disease and gluten allergies are discovered by different tests. > Allergies are generally tested via " IgE " testing - classic allergy testing. > There are some who believe that IgG testing may further give information to > an " intolerance " that causes symptoms, but NO ongoing damage. Celiac > disease is investigated through anti-tissue transglutaminase IgA testing > (and anit-endomysial testing), and a small bowel biopsy showing flattened > villi and an increase in intraepethelial lymphocytes, and sometime crypt > hypoplasia. While allergies can cause GI symptoms, they are not widely > known to cause the specific intestinal damage that is associated with CD. I > have 1 daughter who is not celiac, but is gluten intolerant. (Her blood > work for celiac came back negative, and her biopsy was negative - she is not > IgA deficient.) She may grow out of this some day, but for now she reacts > quite negatively to any amount of gluten. I would hesitate to allow her to > try it again for some time. My other daughter and I are celiac. > > You can get good informationm from the University of Chicago Celiac Disease > Program. I am sure they would be happy to provide you with some excellent > sources of good, reliable information that is up to date. You can do your > own search on www.pubmed.com, and hopefully find some info to help educate > this Doctor, who is living in the dark ages of celiac disease. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 My personal feeling is that there is no difference in the "allergic reaction to gluten" and gluten intolerance or celiac. I think it is just a problem with diagnosis of celiac. I went through the same song and dance and was never properly diagnosed by the endoscopy, but after having it done after being on the diet. Also, maybe the endoscopy was done incorrectly. According to Dr. Fasano, they need to go deeper into the small bowel and take 6 - 8 snips. My doctor forgot to do it the first time and then put me on the diet and later on did it again and only took 2 snips. Then there is the problem with the pathologist not being familiar with what they are looking at and misdiagnosing it. I really think the "allergy" "intolerance" is all one and the same but misdiagnosed. I have personally asked Dr. Fasano what is the difference in the long-term effect on the small bowel with the "allergy" and "celiac" and he says they do not know yet. It could be just as damaging with the allergy as with diagnosed celiac. Again, I think they are all celiac, just misdiagnosed. One day we will know. Dr. Fasano will be speaking at our support group meeting in Rockville, MD. on March 5th. That would be a good Q & A at the end. ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 Yes, it is open to anyone who wants to come. You can go to our website: www.dcceliacs.com and get the date, time, address, etc. ita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 > > I actually agree with the " allergy " theory. It just goes to show > that even the medical community is not in agreement about Celiac, so > why should we be? I think we're years away from a definitive test to > say someone is Celiac, or just gluten intolorent, or even just > allergic. > > My own case seems to point to allergy. > > I was a perfectly healthy child and young adult. Normal height and > weight, appetite and GI function. Suddenly at age 26 I began to have > problems. > > When I started gluten free diet, I felt better, but I never had a > test. The natural health store (run by a U of MD pharmacist) I went > to suggested I " temporarily " stop eating gluten. The idea being I > could eventually re-introduce wheat into my diet. > > I plan to do that this weekend. I've been gluten free for 6 months, > and feel fine, but I want to test my own body. I know it may sound > suicidal to some of you, but I don't trust the medical community to > diagnose things anymore. I will just listen to what my body tells me. > > I'll keep you posted. Gluten challenge was a diagnostic methodology once applied to CD, up and until it was found that CD was a caustive agent of other autoimmune diseases and lymphomas. In a recent review it was questioned whether gluten challenge was an intelligent thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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