Oregon Live: 10-21-00 Trying to understand a child's suicide (fwd)

[Guest guest]

The story about a little girl.

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:53:48 -0800 (PST)

Hello Dear Group,

Another message you may want to delete unread....a story from the Portland

paper about the little girl I told you about in an earlier message. I

think I'm hoping that if you read about her, you will understand why I

feel so intensely that I must do whatever I can to figure this out.

The woman who suicided Tuesday morning at Salem was 35 years old. It

happened at 3AM. Tuesday evening a man, only described as a juvenile,

jumped from the top of a guardrail onto Oregon Highway 99W near Circle,

in front of a tractor-trailer rig. I live off Circle Blvd....Highway 99W

is the nearest crossroad.

Please be kind to yourselves. I'm not sure what is going on right now....

it seems to be rather grim.

My best love,

---------- Forwarded message ----------

Trying to understand a child's suicide

The death of Kimberlee Ann Palmer, 10, stuns her family; experts say

it's a tragic reminder depression can grip even the very young

Saturday, October 21, 2000

______________________________________________________________________

By Kate of The Oregonian staff

The world often looked gray and sad to Kimberlee Ann Palmer. She

worried about bad things happening to the people she loved. Schoolyard

teasing sent her into deep crying spells. When she was depressed --

and she often was -- she said she wanted to be with her father in

heaven.

On Tuesday, the 10-year-old shot herself in the head with her

brother's .22-caliber rifle. The death stunned her school and

community and left her family scouring the events of past weeks for

signs that Kimberlee had been considering suicide.

As shocking as Kimberlee's death was to her family and friends, it

underscored what health professionals ask the public to recognize:

Children, too, suffer depression, even very young children. Rarely

does it lead to suicide, however. Kimberlee's was the fourth suicide

death in Oregon of children 10 and younger since 1987.

While teachers and counselors at Chief ph Elementary School tried

to comfort grieving students, experts called for parental vigilance

for children affected by depression.

" She was fragile. But I never saw this coming, " said her mother,

Palmer, 37, sitting numbly on her daughter's narrow bed. " I

wish I had done more. I would have died for Kimberlee. "

Suicide is seldom the result of a single factor or event but rather

the complex interaction of many factors, said Ron Bloodworth, youth

suicide prevention coordinator for Oregon. Children who take their

lives already are vulnerable because of depression, he said.

Depressed children " see the world through very dark, gloomy glasses, "

said Dr. Bob McKelvey, director of child and adolescent psychiatry at

Oregon Health Sciences University. " You already feel terrible about

yourself. So when somebody calls you 'four-eyes' " -- as Kimberlee

sometimes was -- " it is a very painful incident. "

It's vital that parents know and recognize signs that their children

are in trouble, Bloodworth said.

Marked changes in behavior, dramatic ups and downs and depressed

behavior are all red flags, said Joan Schweizer Hoff, associate

director of the Dougy Center, which serves children in grief. " If you

even have a question, don't wait, " she said. " Have it checked by a

professional. Depression can be treated. "

Palmer, holding the hand of her 15-year-old daughter, Randi Feneide,

said Kimberlee was deeply affected by her father's suicide.

Palmer, who is pictured riding a carousel with Kimberlee in a

snapshot tacked to the wall above Kimberlee's bed, hanged himself in

his parents' garage six years ago.

Kimberlee talked about him frequently, clung to memories of good times

with him and asked her mother whether he had loved her and why he had

left.

After her father's suicide, Kimberlee saw counselors for two years at

the Dougy Center. Later, she talked to school counselors. Kimberlee

was reluctant to speak about her problems with anyone outside the

family, Palmer said.

On Tuesday, Kimberlee's suicide note explained that she felt

overwhelmed by the hurt she was feeling.

" Dear Mom,

The reason I did this is because of (name), (name), and the world was

to mutch. (sic) Burn my stuff, or you get the first pick of my stuff.

I will always love you.

Kimberlee. "

Below, Kimberlee drew an angel, with glasses and a gunshot wound to

her head.

For Palmer, the discovery of her daughter's death brought back the

agony she had felt six years earlier when Kimberlee's father killed

himself.

She last talked to her daughter at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday on the telephone.

Kimberlee's voice was excited. She told her mother some of the new

words she had learned in Spanish class that day.

" She said she had the best day at school, " Palmer said, sitting in

Kimberlee's bedroom. " She said she would tell me more when I got

home. "

When Palmer arrived at her North Portland home, the rooms were dark.

Nobody answered when she called. When she walked into Kimberlee's

bedroom, she found the girl lying on the floor.

Beside her was her brother's rifle, untouched for years in a closet.

Palmer thought the gun had been taken to a relative's house long ago.

She said she was deeply confused by her daughter's death and in part

blamed the child's father.

" Her father made a message that said, 'Yes, this world is hard and you

don't have to be in it,' " Palmer said. " I've been so mad at him " the

past few days.

At the same time, the girl's family is wishing they could have helped.

" I gave her a lot of advice about how to deal " with teasing at school,

said Randi, sitting with her mother and brother, Feneide, 19.

" I told her to just try to be the bigger person, just ignore it.

Sometimes it worked. But I should have done more. "

In Randi's hands was one of Kimberlee's journals, opened to a page

that held a photograph of their mother and an entry: " I fear so much

that my mother will die. She is a great person to live with. She is

supportive. "

In the past few days, Palmer has spent many hours in her little

girl's room, looking through scraps of papers, searching for clues.

At school, her classmates put yellow chrysanthemums on Kimberlee's

desk and colored pictures of her.

" We're providing a lot of nurturing, " said Kathleen Jaffe, principal

of the 320-student school, which Kimberlee had attended since first

grade.

Family, friends and teachers remembered Kimberlee as bright and

outgoing, a girl who won awards and liked helping other people.

While Palmer prepared for her daughter's funeral Friday, she said she

and her daughter Randi have promised to honor Kimberlee by always

coming to each other when they are feeling bad.

" We're not going to let this kind of thing ever happen again, " said

Palmer, her voice breaking. " We're going to talk every day. We're

going to make sure things aren't just 'fine.' I want to know

everything now. "

_________________________________________________________________

You can reach Kate at or by e-mail at

katetaylor@....

Copyright 2000 Oregon Live. All rights reserved. This material may not

be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Guest guest]

---

I just remembered, some research lately(I will try to find the sources

again) is saying that depression in the very young (children) is indicative

of thyroid disease!!!!!

ThyroFeisty(Feisty)

Oregon Live: 10-21-00 Trying to understand

a child's suicide (fwd)

> The story about a little girl.

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:53:48 -0800 (PST)

>

> Hello Dear Group,

> Another message you may want to delete unread....a story from the Portland

> paper about the little girl I told you about in an earlier message. I

> think I'm hoping that if you read about her, you will understand why I

> feel so intensely that I must do whatever I can to figure this out.

>

> The woman who suicided Tuesday morning at Salem was 35 years old. It

> happened at 3AM. Tuesday evening a man, only described as a juvenile,

> jumped from the top of a guardrail onto Oregon Highway 99W near Circle,

> in front of a tractor-trailer rig. I live off Circle Blvd....Highway 99W

> is the nearest crossroad.

>

> Please be kind to yourselves. I'm not sure what is going on right now....

> it seems to be rather grim.

>

> My best love,

>

>

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------

>

> Trying to understand a child's suicide

>

> The death of Kimberlee Ann Palmer, 10, stuns her family; experts say

> it's a tragic reminder depression can grip even the very young

>

> Saturday, October 21, 2000

> ______________________________________________________________________

>

> By Kate of The Oregonian staff

>

> The world often looked gray and sad to Kimberlee Ann Palmer. She

> worried about bad things happening to the people she loved. Schoolyard

> teasing sent her into deep crying spells. When she was depressed --

> and she often was -- she said she wanted to be with her father in

> heaven.

>

> On Tuesday, the 10-year-old shot herself in the head with her

> brother's .22-caliber rifle. The death stunned her school and

> community and left her family scouring the events of past weeks for

> signs that Kimberlee had been considering suicide.

>

> As shocking as Kimberlee's death was to her family and friends, it

> underscored what health professionals ask the public to recognize:

> Children, too, suffer depression, even very young children. Rarely

> does it lead to suicide, however. Kimberlee's was the fourth suicide

> death in Oregon of children 10 and younger since 1987.

>

> While teachers and counselors at Chief ph Elementary School tried

> to comfort grieving students, experts called for parental vigilance

> for children affected by depression.

>

> " She was fragile. But I never saw this coming, " said her mother,

> Palmer, 37, sitting numbly on her daughter's narrow bed. " I

> wish I had done more. I would have died for Kimberlee. "

>

> Suicide is seldom the result of a single factor or event but rather

> the complex interaction of many factors, said Ron Bloodworth, youth

> suicide prevention coordinator for Oregon. Children who take their

> lives already are vulnerable because of depression, he said.

>

> Depressed children " see the world through very dark, gloomy glasses, "

> said Dr. Bob McKelvey, director of child and adolescent psychiatry at

> Oregon Health Sciences University. " You already feel terrible about

> yourself. So when somebody calls you 'four-eyes' " -- as Kimberlee

> sometimes was -- " it is a very painful incident. "

>

> It's vital that parents know and recognize signs that their children

> are in trouble, Bloodworth said.

>

> Marked changes in behavior, dramatic ups and downs and depressed

> behavior are all red flags, said Joan Schweizer Hoff, associate

> director of the Dougy Center, which serves children in grief. " If you

> even have a question, don't wait, " she said. " Have it checked by a

> professional. Depression can be treated. "

>

> Palmer, holding the hand of her 15-year-old daughter, Randi Feneide,

> said Kimberlee was deeply affected by her father's suicide.

>

> Palmer, who is pictured riding a carousel with Kimberlee in a

> snapshot tacked to the wall above Kimberlee's bed, hanged himself in

> his parents' garage six years ago.

>

> Kimberlee talked about him frequently, clung to memories of good times

> with him and asked her mother whether he had loved her and why he had

> left.

>

> After her father's suicide, Kimberlee saw counselors for two years at

> the Dougy Center. Later, she talked to school counselors. Kimberlee

> was reluctant to speak about her problems with anyone outside the

> family, Palmer said.

>

> On Tuesday, Kimberlee's suicide note explained that she felt

> overwhelmed by the hurt she was feeling.

>

> " Dear Mom,

>

> The reason I did this is because of (name), (name), and the world was

> to mutch. (sic) Burn my stuff, or you get the first pick of my stuff.

> I will always love you.

>

> Kimberlee. "

>

> Below, Kimberlee drew an angel, with glasses and a gunshot wound to

> her head.

>

> For Palmer, the discovery of her daughter's death brought back the

> agony she had felt six years earlier when Kimberlee's father killed

> himself.

>

> She last talked to her daughter at 2:30 p.m. Tuesday on the telephone.

> Kimberlee's voice was excited. She told her mother some of the new

> words she had learned in Spanish class that day.

>

> " She said she had the best day at school, " Palmer said, sitting in

> Kimberlee's bedroom. " She said she would tell me more when I got

> home. "

>

> When Palmer arrived at her North Portland home, the rooms were dark.

>

> Nobody answered when she called. When she walked into Kimberlee's

> bedroom, she found the girl lying on the floor.

>

> Beside her was her brother's rifle, untouched for years in a closet.

> Palmer thought the gun had been taken to a relative's house long ago.

>

> She said she was deeply confused by her daughter's death and in part

> blamed the child's father.

>

> " Her father made a message that said, 'Yes, this world is hard and you

> don't have to be in it,' " Palmer said. " I've been so mad at him " the

> past few days.

>

> At the same time, the girl's family is wishing they could have helped.

>

> " I gave her a lot of advice about how to deal " with teasing at school,

> said Randi, sitting with her mother and brother, Feneide, 19.

> " I told her to just try to be the bigger person, just ignore it.

> Sometimes it worked. But I should have done more. "

>

> In Randi's hands was one of Kimberlee's journals, opened to a page

> that held a photograph of their mother and an entry: " I fear so much

> that my mother will die. She is a great person to live with. She is

> supportive. "

>

> In the past few days, Palmer has spent many hours in her little

> girl's room, looking through scraps of papers, searching for clues.

>

> At school, her classmates put yellow chrysanthemums on Kimberlee's

> desk and colored pictures of her.

>

> " We're providing a lot of nurturing, " said Kathleen Jaffe, principal

> of the 320-student school, which Kimberlee had attended since first

> grade.

>

> Family, friends and teachers remembered Kimberlee as bright and

> outgoing, a girl who won awards and liked helping other people.

>

> While Palmer prepared for her daughter's funeral Friday, she said she

> and her daughter Randi have promised to honor Kimberlee by always

> coming to each other when they are feeling bad.

>

> " We're not going to let this kind of thing ever happen again, " said

> Palmer, her voice breaking. " We're going to talk every day. We're

> going to make sure things aren't just 'fine.' I want to know

> everything now. "

> _________________________________________________________________

>

> You can reach Kate at or by e-mail at

> katetaylor@....

>

>

> Copyright 2000 Oregon Live. All rights reserved. This material may not

> be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My thought exactly, . And from my own personal experience! I feel I've

been

depressed for as long as I can remember, wayyyy back as a child.

Antidepressants

didn't do what they should have when I finally started taking them in my 30s.

The

ONLY THING that took it away was the addition of T3. Synthroid alone didn't do

it.

But after I started on T3, I can remember distinctly thinking one day, " Hey, I

haven't

felt depressed for awhile now. " Perhaps it's been my thyroid all along. My

whole life

I've tended to be over weight, low energy, isolative, etc. And with the

difficulty in

getting treated when one is " subclinical, " why would it be any different for a

child

such as Kimberlee? Something sent her over the edge that day and she found the

means to accomplish the task (the rifle.) I don't think people who've never

been

suicidal realize that when the time comes for the suicidal person to " do the

deed "

there's just nothing that will change the fact/behavior. It will get done. I

know it's

natural for the remaining loved ones to feel guilty and search and search for

the

" clues " that they feel they missed. But having been way too close to " doing the

deed "

myself, sometimes there just won't be any. When I was as close to suicide as I

was in

January, I actually had a DEFINITE plan and it gave me such peace. It actually

lightened the despair I was feeling. If I had talked to anyone that day, they

may have

told people I was in a really good state of mind, just as Kimberlee seemed to be

to

her mother.

I guess my point to all this is that suicide is a lot deeper to the person

contemplating it than to those who have never been in that state of mind. And

with

the medical community the way it is re: thyroid issues, it's no wonder people

give up

and finally go through with their plans. That's the despair. I know there are

true

instances of clinical depression where antidepressants work very well, but I

would bet

huge amounts of money that a great majority of today's depression is thyroid

based

and therefore, antidepressants are just a band-aid for doctors who are

frustrated and

lazy and unwilling to learn about thyroid disease. Pharmaceutical and insurance

companies (i.e. $$$$) are just as much to blame.

I also believe 's theories and research into EMFs, seismic activity, etc.,

are all a

part of the thyroid problem. Look what happens to people in areas where there

has

been radioactive fallout.

Just my opinions.

Janet

-- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " Feisty\(ThyroFeisty\) "

<thyrofeisty@g...> wrote:

> ---

> I just remembered, some research lately(I will try to find the sources

> again) is saying that depression in the very young (children) is indicative

> of thyroid disease!!!!!

> ThyroFeisty(Feisty)

> Oregon Live: 10-21-00 Trying to understand

> a child's suicide (fwd)

>

>

> > The story about a little girl.

> >

> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------

> > Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 00:53:48 -0800 (PST)

> >

> > Hello Dear Group,

> > Another message you may want to delete unread....a story from the Portland

> > paper about the little girl I told you about in an earlier message. I

> > think I'm hoping that if you read about her, you will understand why I

> > feel so intensely that I must do whatever I can to figure this out.

> >

[Guest guest]

And very good opinions, I believe!

-----Original Message-----

From: whitecap89

Just my opinions.

Janet