As conversations often go...

[Guest guest]

I was in the shower this morning remembering a conversation that always had me

confused when it came to my mother. I'd walk away feeling as if I had done

something wrong or was being too hard on her (for those who don't know, she died

in 2007 at 62 years old).

Anyway, I remembered how I used to always tell her that she crossed boundaries

with me and didn't know where she ended and I began and I remembered one of the

last conversations we had over her 'psycho-calling.' This is where she

repeatedly called every few seconds alternating between my home phone and my

cell and my husband's work and his cell, and very often some of my neighbors.

This was not because she couldn't get hold of me for DAYS. This was mere hours,

sometimes even 30 minutes was enough for her to go into a full fledged meltdown.

So here is how it went...I wonder if you all can relate.

Me: Mom, you have to stop repeatedly calling. LEAVE me a message and I will call

you back but you have to give me time when I am busy.

Mom: No, no. It's fine. You never have time for me. I'm the last on your list.

I'm not important to you.

Me: That's not true. I just have other things I have to do too. Contrary to what

you think, I have a life.

Mom: Oh, I know that ALL TO WELL...YOU have a life and I am not included. ,

I don't ask much of you. I just want to be part of your life. (insert whining

and crying now).

Me: Mother, you are part of my life, but I have a husband, a child, and I have

things I have to do and it doesn't warrant psycho-calling. This is not normal.

Mom: You say I'm not normal?! You're the one who's not normal! Betty's kids call

her every day, all throughout the day and check on her. Her kids CARE about her.

Me: Betty has 5 kids who live in the same town and no husband. You have Dad

sitting right next to you. I live 280 miles away.

Mom: You don't love me, you never have.

Me: I do love you. I just want you to be normal.

Mom: Oh, oh, oh, you don't understand. I'm not the one who isn't normal,

dear.... (insert nasty tone here)....all I need to know is if you and my

grandson are okay (now insert crying again)....

.....and this is generally how our conversations went. I'd semi confront her

about some of her behaviors (ie, psycho-calling), but it never did any good. She

had a way of manipulating me. I'd usually end up apologizing.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jackie. Funny story: seems to be better since I stopped forcing myself

to talk to nada for an hour a day. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Deanna

>

> LOL bet you dont do that any more :-) hopefully you got the endometriosis

> under control !

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie, that was 10 years ago. I am older and wiser now, and so are you! I

> forgot to mention how I told her that we would obviously not agree, so I

> wanted to just drop it, and she wouldn't. Instead, I had to spend the next

> hour consoling her about my impending death. HA!

>

> Deanna

>

[Guest guest]

I feel no guilt either. I feel some pity for my nada, but no sense of

responsibility for her being mentally ill.

Regarding why bpds/npds can apparently choose to behave nicely to other people

but act out badly toward their spouse and children (and sometimes toward other

specific individuals,) a poster " scrambled 75 " at the WTO Transitions Group made

this observation that I find very interesting:

" ..(this)is something I read in Skerritt's book 'Meaning from Madness'.

Basically, borderlines and narcissists live in great fear of being

negatively judged by others so they project an image they feel will be

acceptable (i.e. mirroring). But they will only do this so long as you fall

outside their definition of 'self'. Once you fall within their definition of

'self' (i.e. through marriage or the like) they are no longer motivated to

impress you, but to control you so that you ALSO project that image to those

outside. All perceived flaws must be eradicated.

I don't think it is a case of them consciously choosing when to be nice and when

to be nasty. In general, they will appear to be nice so long as you are on the

outside. "

So, because the bpd has no boundaries and perceives her children as being

undifferentiated from herself, she believes she has the right to treat

herself/her child any way she wants to. If she feels happy with herself at the

moment, she is happy with her child. If she is full of self-loathing at the

moment, then she loathes her child. In her bpd mind we are her, and she is us:

total enmeshment. I think that's why my bpd/npd mom felt it was OK to beat my

little Sister and me with a belt; if we hadn't been handily right there in front

of her nada probably would have been cutting herself. Beating us was the same

thing as hurting herself, in her disordered bpd brain.

-Annie

>

> not me. , no guilt here.....I didnt ask for her to be so abusive to me,

> I didnt ask for her to bully me, ...and since she is NOT abusive to anyone

> but her husband and kids, she CAN control it, and chooses to be a nasty

> bully towards her family...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> I do feel some guilt because BPD is a horrible illness that I don't think

> anyone asks to have.

>

[Guest guest]

LOL hey, do what works..if not talking to nada makes you feel beter, than

dont talk to her excpt when you want to :-) Stress can manifest itself in

many ways !

Jackie

Thanks Jackie. Funny story: seems to be better since I stopped forcing

myself to talk to nada for an hour a day. I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

Deanna

[Guest guest]

hm...interesting concept...but why, once we all left home, does nada then

NOT beat herself, or cut herself or do any kind of damage to herself ? I

have seen nada almost go into a rage, then drag us by the arm and leave the

store quickly , get to the car, drive away a little bit, then let loose

with her rage on us....

Jackie

I feel no guilt either. I feel some pity for my nada, but no sense of

responsibility for her being mentally ill.

Regarding why bpds/npds can apparently choose to behave nicely to other

people but act out badly toward their spouse and children (and sometimes

toward other specific individuals,) a poster " scrambled 75 " at the WTO

Transitions Group made this observation that I find very interesting:

" ..(this)is something I read in Skerritt's book 'Meaning from

Madness'.

Basically, borderlines and narcissists live in great fear of being

negatively judged by others so they project an image they feel will be

acceptable (i.e. mirroring). But they will only do this so long as you fall

outside their definition of 'self'. Once you fall within their definition of

'self' (i.e. through marriage or the like) they are no longer motivated to

impress you, but to control you so that you ALSO project that image to those

outside. All perceived flaws must be eradicated.

I don't think it is a case of them consciously choosing when to be nice and

when to be nasty. In general, they will appear to be nice so long as you are

on the outside. "

So, because the bpd has no boundaries and perceives her children as being

undifferentiated from herself, she believes she has the right to treat

herself/her child any way she wants to. If she feels happy with herself at

the moment, she is happy with her child. If she is full of self-loathing at

the moment, then she loathes her child. In her bpd mind we are her, and she

is us: total enmeshment. I think that's why my bpd/npd mom felt it was OK

to beat my little Sister and me with a belt; if we hadn't been handily right

there in front of her nada probably would have been cutting herself.

Beating us was the same thing as hurting herself, in her disordered bpd

brain.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

OMG - Deanna, this is the same type of conversation my nada would have with me

10 years ago (I too have gotten older and wiser :-)! Then it would be followed

by several phone calls and emails where she would have the names and phone

numbers of some " specialist " who is " the best in that field " . Sometimes she

would even make the darn appointment for me to go see them (argh!) without

asking. Most of the time her " expert " was referred by a friend of a friends

cousins uncle - after she had gone and told EVERYONE about *my* (private!)

medical condition like it was hers! Ugh!

After a while, I just stopped telling her when I had a medical problem unless it

was absolutely necessary.

Ironically, nada consults regularly with an " energy healer " who she swears has

cured her of all kinds of things. This woman waves little vials of stuff around

her aura and she is magically cured. I'm pretty open-minded, but when nada

criticizes my use of acupuncture or physical therapy, I just remember the time

the energy healer was waving her little magic vials around the perimeter of

nada's house, attempting to get rid of the " bad energy " from the copper pipes

that run under her bedroom. LOL!!

Oh, I don't think it worked. She is still a nada :-)

-

> >

> > wow, Deanna, you and are so patient with your nadas!! I would have

> > lost my patience with my nada long before we got 1/2 way through the

> > conversation. My nada is the witch/queen, and I only take so much crap from

> > her...I know where it's going, I know what is implied, I know her real

> > feelings about me...and I cant let it go on...I either would change the

> > subject or have to suddenly go...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Here's one of mine:

> >

> > Me: Mom, I have great news. I found a naturopath who says she can help me

> > with my endometriosis. I don't feel like a victim anymore. I have a lot of

> > hope that I can feel better!

> >

> > Her: Well she's not a real doctor!

> >

> > Me: (Explains how she is licensed by the state to practice medicine and how

> > she has a PhD and a bachelor's degree plus 5 years of medical school)

> >

> > Her: Well that can't be right

> >

> > Me: Well it is

> >

> > Her: Well how much did she charge you?

> >

> > Me: This much

> >

> > Her: Well that's a lot of money. She is ripping you off!

> >

> > Me: Well she gave me a discount

> >

> > Her: A discount???!?!?!?!?! Well that can't be good.

> >

> > Me: Look, I'm really happy because it feels like a partnership and she

> > thinks she can help me. I'm taking this Chinese tea...

> >

> > Her: Chinese tea? I saw that on TV. It's going to kill you! It kills

> > people!

> >

> > Me: You saw Laci Le Beau's Super Dieter's Tea. That is not the same thing.

> > Chinese tea is 2000 years old. It is perfectly safe.

> >

> > Her: You're going to die! This tea will kill you! This woman is going to

> > kill you!

> >

> > Me: The tea is safe. The endo is hurting me. This can help.

> >

> > Her: You're going to die! I should have some say in what kind of doctor you

> > see. I want you to see a REAL doctor.

> >

> > Me: Western medicine can't help me with this problem.

> >

> > Her: You're going to DIE!

> >

> > Me: Endo is NOT FATAL.

> >

> > Her: sob sob whah whah sniff sniff I SHOULD HAVE A SAY IN WHAT YOU DO TO

> > YOUR BODY.

> >

> > Me: I AM 29 YEARS OLD AND IT IS *MY BODY*. IT BELONGS TO ME.

> >

> > Her: But I am your mother boo hoo whah sob whine cry whah You're going to

> > DIE.

> >

> > Me: (regretting sharing my HAPPY news with her)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hummingbird- they just don't get it, do they?!

One of the defining moments in my life, when I began to realize there was

something really wrong with my nada, happened when I was 24. I was diagnosed

with cancer, while living 3000 miles away from my family. Nada went ballistic

(fear of abandonment issues, you think?!). She threatened to sue my primary

care doctor if he didn't set me up with the best lymphoma specialist in my area

- so my primary care doc made some calls and pulled the expert out of his

sabbatical to take on my case. Nada then started calling the expert (this is

the guy who invented the treatment for the type of cancer I had!) regularly and

questioning every decision he was making in regards to my care (ie. " why aren't

you doing THIS or THAT? " ). He got so irritated with her that he stopped talking

to her. He said I was an adult, and his patient, and he would talk to me

directly. So she found out where he lived, and somehow tracked down his next

door neighbor and worked on the neighbor to try and get him to talk to her!

That didn't go so well either.

SO she and my dad called me and told me that if I didn't get my doctor to talk

to them whenever they wanted, they could not support me through my treatment.

Can you imagine, 24 years old and faced with a life-threatening illness and a

gruesome treatment, and your parents who are supposed to love and support you

basically threatening to cut you off because they aren't getting their way? I

still get so angry when I think about this - I have forgiven a lot of sh*t that

nada has done over the years, but I haven't been able to forgive this one. For

years I've told people that the hardest part of having cancer was dealing with

my " mother " .

Thank goodness I had a wonderful social worker (my guardian angel) who looked

out for me and took care of me and even dealt with my parents for me so I could

get through treatment. Of course, nada accused her of " brainwashing " me.

Thanks for letting me vent this one. Nada has taught me a lot about what NOT to

do with my own kids.

-

>

> I started seeing a psychologist for an eating disorder when I was 18. My

mother threatened to call my therapist and find out what I was saying - she even

told me she could get a judge to MAKE my therapist release my records when I

told her it was confidential and I was over 18. She tried to tell me I wasn't

legally an adult until I was 21. LOL It went on and on and on. If I had had the

willpower, I'd have run away from home.

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: As conversations often go...

>

>

>

>

> OMG - Deanna, this is the same type of conversation my nada would have with me

10 years ago (I too have gotten older and wiser :-)! Then it would be followed

by several phone calls and emails where she would have the names and phone

numbers of some " specialist " who is " the best in that field " . Sometimes she

would even make the darn appointment for me to go see them (argh!) without

asking. Most of the time her " expert " was referred by a friend of a friends

cousins uncle - after she had gone and told EVERYONE about *my* (private!)

medical condition like it was hers! Ugh!

>

> After a while, I just stopped telling her when I had a medical problem unless

it was absolutely necessary.

>

> Ironically, nada consults regularly with an " energy healer " who she swears has

cured her of all kinds of things. This woman waves little vials of stuff around

her aura and she is magically cured. I'm pretty open-minded, but when nada

criticizes my use of acupuncture or physical therapy, I just remember the time

the energy healer was waving her little magic vials around the perimeter of

nada's house, attempting to get rid of the " bad energy " from the copper pipes

that run under her bedroom. LOL!!

>

> Oh, I don't think it worked. She is still a nada :-)

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

oh, , that is just so sad...how sick they are to treat you so horribly

when you needed them toeh most !! what spoiled brats !! I'm so sorry you

had to go through that...

Jackie

Hummingbird- they just don't get it, do they?!

One of the defining moments in my life, when I began to realize there was

something really wrong with my nada, happened when I was 24. I was

diagnosed with cancer, while living 3000 miles away from my family. Nada

went ballistic (fear of abandonment issues, you think?!). She threatened to

sue my primary care doctor if he didn't set me up with the best lymphoma

specialist in my area - so my primary care doc made some calls and pulled

the expert out of his sabbatical to take on my case. Nada then started

calling the expert (this is the guy who invented the treatment for the type

of cancer I had!) regularly and questioning every decision he was making in

regards to my care (ie. " why aren't you doing THIS or THAT? " ). He got so

irritated with her that he stopped talking to her. He said I was an adult,

and his patient, and he would talk to me directly. So she found out where

he lived, and somehow tracked down his next door neighbor and worked on the

neighbor to try and get him to talk to her! That didn't go so well either.

SO she and my dad called me and told me that if I didn't get my doctor to

talk to them whenever they wanted, they could not support me through my

treatment.

Can you imagine, 24 years old and faced with a life-threatening illness and

a gruesome treatment, and your parents who are supposed to love and support

you basically threatening to cut you off because they aren't getting their

way? I still get so angry when I think about this - I have forgiven a lot

of sh*t that nada has done over the years, but I haven't been able to

forgive this one. For years I've told people that the hardest part of

having cancer was dealing with my " mother " .

Thank goodness I had a wonderful social worker (my guardian angel) who

looked out for me and took care of me and even dealt with my parents for me

so I could get through treatment. Of course, nada accused her of

" brainwashing " me.

Thanks for letting me vent this one. Nada has taught me a lot about what

NOT to do with my own kids.

-

[Guest guest]

and everyone who's responded to this thread,

I cannot tell you how my jaw drops so often when I read an experience others

have had that are identical to my own.

The conversation with your mother...that's me. Totally. I used to initiate those

kind of talks with her to see if THIS time she would give me the

validation/approval I was so eager for. Never got it. Never will.

It reminded me of a conversation I had with her in which I was telling her about

a job I had been offered. She said, basically, " do you think you'll know what

you're doing? " She may as well have said, " you'll never amount to anything,

loser. "

I rarely share anything anymore with her. When she brings stuff up now, I change

the subject. or just lie.

The other day she said, as she often does, " " You and your brother tell me

nothing. You ask me something about me and I tell you EVERYthing. "

I don't know who said it on this thread, that they used to force themselves to

talk to their mother an hour a day.Oy, me too. I used to force myself to brace

through it, and pretend to have a conversation. It was unbearable and I wasn't

doing her any favors by pretending to have a relationship with her.

My quality of life has gotten so much better since I gave up her daily

monologue. At least if it was on a different subject each day, it'd be

different. But the same broken record... We still talk once a day but it's about

3 minutes, tops. Lovely. I feel so hateful saying that, but who wants to be

someone else's mute toilet for their verbal vomit?

I hated, absolutely hated knowing when I came home from work that at some point

my mother would be calling me and if I 1) didn't pick up right away she would be

pissed and 2) if I didn't stay on long enough she would be pissed, and 3) if I

tried to speak, that is, take part in the " conversation, " she would be pissed,

and 4) if anyone, ANYone interrupted--a child with poop hanging out of their

butt, my husband wanting to know where something was, she would be pissed. My

stomach was constantly in knots.

And I do know what you feel about feeling alone. This support board has been an

incredible blessing to me. My friends will listen to me but they really don't

get it. You guys get it.

> >

> > LOL bet you dont do that any more :-) hopefully you got the endometriosis

> > under control !

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > Jackie, that was 10 years ago. I am older and wiser now, and so are you! I

> > forgot to mention how I told her that we would obviously not agree, so I

> > wanted to just drop it, and she wouldn't. Instead, I had to spend the next

> > hour consoling her about my impending death. HA!

> >

> > Deanna

> >

>

[Guest guest]

My mom always says this kind of thing too. And I get mad because I think: then

why do you

act like the child? And plus, we are all adults, it's not like you get to do

the: I am the Mother

thing now...

~p

Re: Re: As conversations often go...

my nada thought because she was my mother that meant instant respect and

love from me....didn't happen that way !!

Jackie

I remember that too!! Weird!! I remember my dad telling my mom that she had

to earn respect to get it from us (my sister and I) and she'd say " NO! They

will respect me because I am TEHIR MOTHER!! "

As if a person is just entitled to it.

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

I agree..I told my mother when I was around 37 and she tried the " but I'm

your mother... " on me...I told her that card expired when I got married and

moved out!! that made her mad and she said she'll always be my mother...I

said fine, but I dont need a mommy ( which I never had one anyway) and that

I am an adult and expect to be treated like an adult and not like a 9 year

old....didn't work...she still treated me as a 9 year old even though I'm

over 50 now !

Jackie

My mom always says this kind of thing too. And I get mad because I think:

then why do you

act like the child? And plus, we are all adults, it's not like you get to

do the: I am the Mother

thing now...

~p

[Guest guest]

My mother has used this " I'm the mother " as a reason not to listen to anybody's

complaints

or emotions. If I look at the diagnostic criteria, I can see how these things

might threaten her

self identity or cause her discomfort; I'm not sure what it is. But as someone

who does not engage

in this type of behavior (I am refraining from using the word *normal*) it is

disorienting to say the

least. It's like I am always being told I am *wrong* (which is why I suppose I

get defensive when

people tell me I am wrong or infer it or disagree with something I've done).

Yesterday I talked with my mom about the situation with my sister's one daughter

who is living

with her. She is 14. Her dad is living with my mom now too. In order to get

social security payments

for the girl, my mom would have to prove custody/guardianship. But that would

be impossible I think,

because her dad is right there. I told my mom I wanted to set up a joint

account with the dad so that I

can oversee and distribute the money as *I* see fit. (Since I am the only one

who can maintain some

boundaries and follow through on things, and though it might sound like I am

being dictator-ish, it is because

the father does not give my mom cash, which my mom needs, and my mom won't push

the issue, and instead

feels sorry for him).

Anyway, I was explaining to her about how I don't trust the dad to do what needs

to be done. And my mom

got into defending him, and shutting me down with the: I don't want to hear this

(too stressful for HER).

And usually I give in this method she has always used. I was thinking: oh just

like when we were kids.

But instead of letting her do it, I got angry and said really firm: You know, I

am doing all this work getting

the social security for (my sister) and Sage (her daughter) (and then I

said, oh yeah, and YOU). Not

for the dad. And no one appreciates it. I went on for a bit. But it is not

that I want to shut HER down,

but I am feeling angry about how this whole thing is going down and I have an

interest in my sister's

kids. I don't want to put up with her shutting me down so that the right thing

won't happen.

It was a good feeling. I didn't even feel guilty...haha.

~patricia

Re: Re: As conversations often go...

I agree..I told my mother when I was around 37 and she tried the " but I'm

your mother... " on me...I told her that card expired when I got married and

moved out!! that made her mad and she said she'll always be my mother...I

said fine, but I dont need a mommy ( which I never had one anyway) and that

I am an adult and expect to be treated like an adult and not like a 9 year

old....didn't work...she still treated me as a 9 year old even though I'm

over 50 now !

Jackie

My mom always says this kind of thing too. And I get mad because I think:

then why do you

act like the child? And plus, we are all adults, it's not like you get to

do the: I am the Mother

thing now...

~p

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Oh, Dear God, Doug. I'm having a hard time breathing now--

As soon as I read you/my mother's quote, I could hear her voice: " I'm the

mother! " was her favorite power play. If she owns a tagline, that's it.

And yes, I had the same laundry problem. Only I had 3 shirts to wear to school,

because my nada blocked any attempts by my father or anyone else to get me

clothes. This was when I was 11, and went to a school in the 2nd richest county

of the nation at the time.

Wow. Makes me want to vomit remembering.

Glad I'm not alone, but I wish I were--that would mean only one of us would have

had to go through that.

> > >

> > > not me. , no guilt here.....I didnt ask for her to be so

> abusive to me,

> > > I didnt ask for her to bully me, ...and since she is NOT abusive to

> anyone

> > > but her husband and kids, she CAN control it, and chooses to be a

> nasty

> > > bully towards her family...

> > >

> > > Jackie

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > I do feel some guilt because BPD is a horrible illness that I don't

> think

> > > anyone asks to have.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

- can you get yourself named as the " representative payee " for your

niece? The check will almost certainly go to the dad unless you establish

somebody else as payee. If it's too much of a hassle to fight about custody (or

would involve court expenses), maybe you could get them to agree that you will

ONLY go on doing the paperwork if they agree not to contest you being rep payee.

Then the check would come to you, you can put it in an account for your niece,

and give your mom an allowance every month for the niece's expenses. If they

won't agree, tell them they'll have to do the paperwork themselves. I know that

sounds immature, and that you're doing this to help the girl - but it sounds

like you're concerned that Dad will blow through the money and the girl won't be

cared for. Surely they will agree to operate out of enlightened self-interest -

money under your control is better than no money at all - and as Rep Payee I

believe you have to provide an accounting for all funds, so it will be clear to

both Dad and your mom that the money is being spent appropriately.

>

> My mother has used this " I'm the mother " as a reason not to listen to

anybody's complaints

> or emotions. If I look at the diagnostic criteria, I can see how these things

might threaten her

> self identity or cause her discomfort; I'm not sure what it is. But as

someone who does not engage

> in this type of behavior (I am refraining from using the word *normal*) it is

disorienting to say the

> least. It's like I am always being told I am *wrong* (which is why I suppose

I get defensive when

> people tell me I am wrong or infer it or disagree with something I've done).

>

> Yesterday I talked with my mom about the situation with my sister's one

daughter who is living

> with her. She is 14. Her dad is living with my mom now too. In order to get

social security payments

> for the girl, my mom would have to prove custody/guardianship. But that would

be impossible I think,

> because her dad is right there. I told my mom I wanted to set up a joint

account with the dad so that I

> can oversee and distribute the money as *I* see fit. (Since I am the only one

who can maintain some

> boundaries and follow through on things, and though it might sound like I am

being dictator-ish, it is because

> the father does not give my mom cash, which my mom needs, and my mom won't

push the issue, and instead

> feels sorry for him).

>

> Anyway, I was explaining to her about how I don't trust the dad to do what

needs to be done. And my mom

> got into defending him, and shutting me down with the: I don't want to hear

this (too stressful for HER).

> And usually I give in this method she has always used. I was thinking: oh

just like when we were kids.

> But instead of letting her do it, I got angry and said really firm: You know,

I am doing all this work getting

> the social security for (my sister) and Sage (her daughter) (and then I

said, oh yeah, and YOU). Not

> for the dad. And no one appreciates it. I went on for a bit. But it is not

that I want to shut HER down,

> but I am feeling angry about how this whole thing is going down and I have an

interest in my sister's

> kids. I don't want to put up with her shutting me down so that the right

thing won't happen.

> It was a good feeling. I didn't even feel guilty...haha.

> ~patricia

> Re: Re: As conversations often go...

>

> I agree..I told my mother when I was around 37 and she tried the " but I'm

> your mother... " on me...I told her that card expired when I got married and

> moved out!! that made her mad and she said she'll always be my mother...I

> said fine, but I dont need a mommy ( which I never had one anyway) and that

> I am an adult and expect to be treated like an adult and not like a 9 year

> old....didn't work...she still treated me as a 9 year old even though I'm

> over 50 now !

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> My mom always says this kind of thing too. And I get mad because I think:

> then why do you

> act like the child? And plus, we are all adults, it's not like you get to

> do the: I am the Mother

> thing now...

> ~p

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Jackie - The niece's Dad can file for money as the parent of a minor child, and

may be entitled to claim SS survivor's benefits as a spouse as well. He doesn't

have to report to anybody about the money he receives for himself, but he has a

fiduciary duty to handle the daughter's benefits in such a way that the money is

spent on her shelter, food, clothes, medical care, etc. If there's enough to

live on, that can include a college savings account, savings account for her to

take when she's of age, etc. But he can't just take her check and blow it on

beer and cigarettes. (Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but he's not

supposed to do it.)

>

> I dont think the dad gets SS because his wife died.....I think it only goes

> to her kids..that makes a lot of sense what you want...maybe your mother and

> the dad can have a joint account...that way your mother has access to the

> funds..

>

> hang in there, I think you're doing a great job !! and it shows you're

> starting to get free of the depression since you're focusing on other

> things, like your niece :-)

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> Hey Jackie,

> The SS money has to go into an adult's bank account; and I want a certain

> amount

> to go to my mom to help pay for taking care of my niece and then the

> majority

> of it to go into a separate account for my niece.

> Also, the dad will probably get a SS check as well, and that is what I want

> also

> to have some cash to go to my mom (for housing his children and I mean ALL

> his children

> over the years, both my sister's teenaged children lived with my mom for

> years) to

> help my mom pay her property taxes (she needs to put aside 300 a month for

> that

> but she never does, then complains about it).

>

> So yeah...I am pushing into it, but I feel pretty miserable most of the time

> (grief) and

> angry (probably some of it is projected anger ....anger at myself for

> certain things...

> maybe the misguided belief I could have helped my sister more than I did).

> Anyway...someone has to apply for the SS and make it all happen. I just

> don't want

> the dad to have control over the money.

> thanks~

> ~patricia

>

[Guest guest]

thanks for the info, , I didnt know a spouse could get SS..well, thats

dumb, I should have known because my MIL gets part of my FIL SS since he

died...

Jackie

Jackie - The niece's Dad can file for money as the parent of a minor child,

and may be entitled to claim SS survivor's benefits as a spouse as well. He

doesn't have to report to anybody about the money he receives for himself,

but he has a fiduciary duty to handle the daughter's benefits in such a way

that the money is spent on her shelter, food, clothes, medical care, etc.

If there's enough to live on, that can include a college savings account,

savings account for her to take when she's of age, etc. But he can't just

take her check and blow it on beer and cigarettes. (Doesn't mean that it

doesn't happen, but he's not supposed to do it.)

[Guest guest]

oh gosh, me too. I had so few clothes to wear. Nada would buy me clothes that

looked terrible on my body type. So I wore 2, 3 outfits my entire freshman

year. I still struggle with my clothign image..... I do not deserve nice

things ....... ick

may we all heal

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The check has to go to the person with whom Sage lives. She is living with my

mom and when I called to get an interview set up (a phone interview) the woman

said my mom would need proof of custody.

My mom sent me my sister's SS papers and it mentioned spousal benefits. That

really burns me as I feel he helped to kill her (literally; he left her

abandoned with no car, and would bring her alcohol and food, he contributed in a

major way to her depression that led her to drink as she did; he blamed her for

a relationship and bad turn of events that happened when they were getting

divorced; my sister let her boyfriend influence her to do crack and heroin, and

so she was a bad parent for about two years; however her husband was NEVER a

good parent and was an alcoholic himself).

He and I have always had this conflict because my sister would complain to me

about him. He would act like I talked her into being upset with him. I gave

his children (four of them) vacations, reprieves, camp opportunities, job

internships. When their car was broken I would go and pick him up and drive him

to work far away and then me to college. I guess that was not good enough for

him to respect me. Plus he has an intense learning disability (I think) and can

be impossible to communicate with, as he doesn't understand a certain flow of

conversation.

So I am not sure what will happen. I just can't believe after he killed my

sister he gets money every month when he let her go without for so freaking

long, while she was raising his four children.

Anyway, I do appreciate your information. Hopefully it will work out as I want.

~patricia

Re: Re: As conversations often go...

>

> I agree..I told my mother when I was around 37 and she tried the " but

I'm

> your mother... " on me...I told her that card expired when I got married

and

> moved out!! that made her mad and she said she'll always be my mother...I

> said fine, but I dont need a mommy ( which I never had one anyway) and

that

> I am an adult and expect to be treated like an adult and not like a 9 year

> old....didn't work...she still treated me as a 9 year old even though I'm

> over 50 now !

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> My mom always says this kind of thing too. And I get mad because I think:

> then why do you

> act like the child? And plus, we are all adults, it's not like you get to

> do the: I am the Mother

> thing now...

> ~p

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

Thanks for your email and encouragement. I do not feel like I am doing a great

job

but I guess that I am not laying in bed depressed like my mom did is a good

thing.

I've actually had a very bad couple of weeks....intense sadness and grief, but

focusing

on other things is like a distraction.

I don't want my mom on the joint account because she just gets flustered with

managing

things like this and she is a pushover when it comes to this sort of thing. Not

saying the dad

would do anything not right, but I want to make sure. In my opinion he does not

have a good

track record.

thanks again~

patricia

Re: Re: As conversations often go...

I dont think the dad gets SS because his wife died.....I think it only goes

to her kids..that makes a lot of sense what you want...maybe your mother and

the dad can have a joint account...that way your mother has access to the

funds..

hang in there, I think you're doing a great job !! and it shows you're

starting to get free of the depression since you're focusing on other

things, like your niece :-)

Jackie

Hey Jackie,

The SS money has to go into an adult's bank account; and I want a certain

amount

to go to my mom to help pay for taking care of my niece and then the

majority

of it to go into a separate account for my niece.

Also, the dad will probably get a SS check as well, and that is what I want

also

to have some cash to go to my mom (for housing his children and I mean ALL

his children

over the years, both my sister's teenaged children lived with my mom for

years) to

help my mom pay her property taxes (she needs to put aside 300 a month for

that

but she never does, then complains about it).

So yeah...I am pushing into it, but I feel pretty miserable most of the time

(grief) and

angry (probably some of it is projected anger ....anger at myself for

certain things...

maybe the misguided belief I could have helped my sister more than I did).

Anyway...someone has to apply for the SS and make it all happen. I just

don't want

the dad to have control over the money.

thanks~

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.