Re: anyone remember?

[Guest guest]

I read a biography about her before I heard the term " BPD " and it was the first

time I could say: Like THIS, my mom is like THIS except for the killing part.

>

>

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/california.betty.broderick.parole/index.html

>

> Remember Betty Broderick? I watch these shows on these types of murderers and

always think of

> these women has having characteristics that my mother does. I don't think my

mom would go as far as

> murder, but these people most definitely have these personality disorders.

And it's amazing that

> jury members fall for it. But then again, I have been exposed to it for a

lifetime.

> ~patricia

> ps..perhaps Judy Garland too, she reminds me of my mother.

>

>

[Guest guest]

PD, there have been times I have thought that if my nada were more familiar with

guns she would have killed us all. She didn't, obviously, but Betty was very

similar in how she portrayed herself in the victim role.

In the book I read (it's been too long to remember the name) her husband

realized how off she was on their honeymoon and was ripped up about it...but

there was nothing he could do because of his religion. They didn't believe in

divorce. So right from the beginning their relationship was strained.

[Guest guest]

Now how to we KNOW our nadas didnt kill someone, bury the body, and

gaslight about it. We d NEVER know. What seemed like a normal life, took

a turn for the bizarre, as we found ourselves in

The Twilight Zone.

Ever think about that? Huh? Huh? Huh?

( you ll have to inject the music yourself, guys. )

Doug

> >

> >

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/california.betty.broderick.parole/in\

dex.html

> >

> > Remember Betty Broderick? I watch these shows on these types of

murderers and always think of

> > these women has having characteristics that my mother does. I don't

think my mom would go as far as

> > murder, but these people most definitely have these personality

disorders. And it's amazing that

> > jury members fall for it. But then again, I have been exposed to it

for a lifetime.

> > ~patricia

> > ps..perhaps Judy Garland too, she reminds me of my mother.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I remember in a few of her rages that she might have felt a twinge of

guilt, but then she would come back with, " why do you think you deserve

anything? nobody ever gave me anything! "

In a message dated 1/30/2010 12:29:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

sleddog@... writes:

and like my nada, I'm sure she meant it !! what a terrifying thing for a

child to hear repeatedly !!

Jackie

My mother used to say to me, " do you know I could just kill you right now

and there is nothing you can do about it. "

Ugh.

[Guest guest]

Oh my...I know! I heard that alot. Or the " you'll be sorry when I'm dead! "

Or " you'll feel bad guilty when I die! "

In a message dated 1/30/2010 12:38:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

sleddog@... writes:

same with my nada...she never attempted it, but would say she would because

we werent paying her enough attention, or not doing what she

wanted...she'we

yell " I may as well go out and kill myself, no one would miss me " we all

know she'd never do it...she is such a drama queen

Jackie

My mother never attempted to kill herself, but would threaten it

constantly. She had such a manipulative hold on everyone in the family

with

her

suicidality.

[Guest guest]

and like my nada, I'm sure she meant it !! what a terrifying thing for a

child to hear repeatedly !!

Jackie

My mother used to say to me, " do you know I could just kill you right now

and there is nothing you can do about it. "

Ugh.

[Guest guest]

same with my nada...she never attempted it, but would say she would because

we werent paying her enough attention, or not doing what she wanted...she'd

yell " I may as well go out and kill myself, no one would miss me " we all

know she'd never do it...she is such a drama queen

Jackie

My mother never attempted to kill herself, but would threaten it

constantly. She had such a manipulative hold on everyone in the family with

her

suicidality.

[Guest guest]

Disa, the book you read was: " Until the Twelfth of Never: Deadly Divorce of Dan

and Betty Broderick "

Deanna

>

>

> PD, there have been times I have thought that if my nada were more familiar

with guns she would have killed us all. She didn't, obviously, but Betty was

very similar in how she portrayed herself in the victim role.

>

> In the book I read (it's been too long to remember the name) her husband

realized how off she was on their honeymoon and was ripped up about it...but

there was nothing he could do because of his religion. They didn't believe in

divorce. So right from the beginning their relationship was strained.

>

[Guest guest]

" I'm not sure if I WILL feel guilty. Let's give it a try and see. "

>

> Oh my...I know! I heard that alot. Or the " you'll be sorry when I'm dead! "

> Or " you'll feel bad guilty when I die! "

>

>

> In a message dated 1/30/2010 12:38:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> same with my nada...she never attempted it, but would say she would because

>

> we werent paying her enough attention, or not doing what she

> wanted...she'we

> yell " I may as well go out and kill myself, no one would miss me " we all

> know she'd never do it...she is such a drama queen

>

> Jackie

>

> My mother never attempted to kill herself, but would threaten it

> constantly. She had such a manipulative hold on everyone in the family

> with

> her

> suicidality.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if it is a by product of life with nada that makes us all such

smartasses?

> > >

> > >

>

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/california.betty.broderick.parole/in\

\

> dex.html

> > >

> > > Remember Betty Broderick? I watch these shows on these types of

> murderers and always think of

> > > these women has having characteristics that my mother does. I

don't

> think my mom would go as far as

> > > murder, but these people most definitely have these personality

> disorders. And it's amazing that

> > > jury members fall for it. But then again, I have been exposed to

it

> for a lifetime.

> > > ~patricia

> > > ps..perhaps Judy Garland too, she reminds me of my mother.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

My nada was very verbal and hystrionic about suicidal ideations. Once,

when I was about 14, and she and my dad were in the process of

splitting up, she left a confrontation with him, with me in the car, and

, screaming hysterically, pointed the car at a bridge abuttment and

floored it. Of course, we were some distance from it, but at that

moment I feared for my life and took the wheel and turned off the key.

At this point, she screamed at me, in a high , shrill sound like a dying

animal, her face blood red, telling me NEVER to do that again, did I

know how dangerous it was to grab the wheel when someone was driving a

car? You could have got us killed! ( Now one who understands BPD will

nod sadly, and say, uh huh, but for a 14 yo kid, aside from the absolute

terror of the moment, was the thought WTF? What did YOU just try to do.

)

She used suicide attempts, always timed so that it was when it was just

her and her teen aged son around, so I had to wrestle knives away from

her, or pills, or whatever was at hand, and then assure her of my love

through snot bubbles and sobs. She did this for years, and always when

it was just us around to witness it.

I often wondered, what would happen if I called her bluff?

I finally found out. About 6 years before her death, she pulled "

nervous breakdown " at her Dr s office, crying uncontrollably, and making

suicidal ideations. They called me to come and take her to the hospital,

and the instant we were outside his office the crying ceased. Some

nervous breakdown, huh?

A few months later, she tried it again, and this time the Family

Practicioner came into the room, and got her psychiatrist on the phone,

and they told her in view of her suicidal comments, unless she agreed to

go into the hospital, in the psych ward, they would do a mental hygiene

petition and have her committed. She was mad at them the rest of her

life for that, but she went.

And never mentioned suicide again.

It took 30 years, though.

Doug

>

> My mother never attempted to kill herself, but would threaten it

> constantly. She had such a manipulative hold on everyone in the family

with her

> suicidality.

>

>

> In a message dated 1/30/2010 11:51:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> coyotesun1@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> Oh, that is horrible; I can't imagine what that must have done to you.

My

> mother used to try to

> kill herself and I know how bad that was. I'm sorry you had that

> experience.

> ~patricia

> Re: Re: anyone remember?

>

> My mother used to say to me, " do you know I could just kill you right

now

> and there is nothing you can do about it. "

>

> Ugh.

>

>

> In a message dated 1/30/2010 11:25:28 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> _sleddog@..._ (mailto:sleddog@...) writes:

>

> that could very well be, Doug...my nada threatened to kill us many

> times..maybe I had an older sister/brother I never knew about because

she

> killed them !! and since we moved several times during my childhood,

it

> could have happened several times !!

>

> Jackie

>

> Now how to we KNOW our nadas didnt kill someone, bury the body, and

> gaslight about it. We d NEVER know. What seemed like a normal life,

took

> a turn for the bizarre, as we found ourselves in

>

> The Twilight Zone.

>

> Ever think about that? Huh? Huh? Huh?

>

> ( you ll have to inject the music yourself, guys. )

>

> Doug

>

>

[Guest guest]

OK you may be tongue in cheek here, but I think that, yes, it is a byproduct of

being a KO that one becomes a smartass.

Basically, not being allowed to have feelings, being shamed for crying, being

laughed at when you're hurting, and just being treated *unfairly* all the time,

makes us feel such learned helplessness, that the only way to stand up for

ourselves, even just a little, is to make passive-aggressive comments.

I do this myself, but I do make an effort to not do it during arguments, because

my goal in an argument is to come to an agreement whilst being considerate of

others' feelings.

With my family, I have been passive-aggressive a lot because it was often the

only safe way to convey my feelings.

Deanna

> > > >

> > > >

> >

> http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/california.betty.broderick.parole/in\

> \

> > dex.html

> > > >

> > > > Remember Betty Broderick? I watch these shows on these types of

> > murderers and always think of

> > > > these women has having characteristics that my mother does. I

> don't

> > think my mom would go as far as

> > > > murder, but these people most definitely have these personality

> > disorders. And it's amazing that

> > > > jury members fall for it. But then again, I have been exposed to

> it

> > for a lifetime.

> > > > ~patricia

> > > > ps..perhaps Judy Garland too, she reminds me of my mother.

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

I'm curious about something:

Jackie, were you the eldest child?

, were you the youngest or not the eldest? I'm the youngest of two

daughters and your words could have been coming out of my mouth! I recently

told my sister how much I worshiped her the day she smacked nada back (we were

in high school at the time). Interestingly, sister had virtually no

recollection of it, but time slowed for me watching it--I remember every detail

of it. (One of the early working titles of my autobiography was, " Hitting

Mom " --that's how profound it was for me.) Standing up for myself or retaliation

<gasp> was completely out of the question for me--wayyyy too terrified.

HOWEVER, interestingly enough, when sister smacked nada, nada crumbled like a

house of cards. " How could you?! " followed by sobbing and running off to her

bedroom. Kinda funny in hindsight (actually, kinda comical at the time too.

hey, you gotta grab humor where you can in a BPD house

BTW, I mean in no way to minimize the original thread topic, which is, as so

many BPD words and actions, tragic--nobody should ever be subject to such a

statement. I don't recall nada ever saying *that* to us--that would be far too

assertive for her, I think. she just used to say repeatedly, " I wish I never

had kids " or some variant like " I never should have had kids. "

-lisa

>

> Hi , I paid dearly for my " smartass " ways, though, and I wonder if

> your sister did as well. Nada was ALWAYS mad at me, even if I didn't say/do

> anything..I learned a long time ago there was no pleasing her so I mostly

> stropped trying, and started making my own little digs back at her....but I

> was always getting grounded for 2 weeks for this or that, when my siblings

> if they did the same thing, were just yelled at...plus other things...my

> siblings were allowed much more freedom that I ever was, so that was my way

> of rebelling.. my sisters curfew was 11 on week days and 1 on weekends..I

> wasn't allowed out on week days, and my curfew was 10 on weekends...even

> when I was older then the age my sister was at when she could stay out

> later. I never did anything wrong when out.. I wasn't a wild kid, and I was

> NOT rebellious or a smartass to anyone except nada..

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Hi Jackie,

> You remind me of my sister~ she was able to fight with my mom and give it

> all

> right back to her. I used to get mad at her, when I was younger, but then I

> was glad,

> because I could never do it. I thought she was brave that way. She stood

> up to what I

> think is almost the scariest thing there is....a raging hair-trigger nada!

> ~patricia

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I was the middle child. I have an older brother and my sister was the youngest.

She just had a braveness about her; maybe not socially but towards my mom she

did. I am afraid of confrontation and was teased and bullied in school;

betrayed by friends. My brother teased me a lot too. If I complained to my

mom, she would say something like: I don't want to hear you kids fighting;

implying that if we fought, it would upset her. And because I did not want her

upset I gave in and gave up in the sibling fights. I always kept somewhat of a

physical and emotional distance from my mom. My sister was the youngest and I

think my mom was more physical with her (affectionate) and they were more like

each other (temperament). Which is why I think my sister could react back to

her. When my sister was a teen, she rebelled big time. My mom would act like

it was all upsetting to herself and would get in my sister's face, and one time

my sister slapped her. So that's interesting that your sister did too!

In later years when my mom would call my dad's 'mistress' an adulterer (because

she likes to use dramatic terms) my sister would tell her she was no better

because there was a time when my mom was seeing a married man (I think his wife

was sick or something so that was the excuse). I always liked when she would do

that.

My nonconfrontational ways and fear of conflict have created difficult

situations for me. I try to get my way without doing that, and sometimes it

works but lately it doesn't seem to ;p I'm sort of a push over.

~patricia

Re: anyone remember?

I'm curious about something:

Jackie, were you the eldest child?

, were you the youngest or not the eldest? I'm the youngest of two

daughters and your words could have been coming out of my mouth! I recently

told my sister how much I worshiped her the day she smacked nada back (we were

in high school at the time). Interestingly, sister had virtually no

recollection of it, but time slowed for me watching it--I remember every detail

of it. (One of the early working titles of my autobiography was, " Hitting

Mom " --that's how profound it was for me.) Standing up for myself or retaliation

<gasp> was completely out of the question for me--wayyyy too terrified.

HOWEVER, interestingly enough, when sister smacked nada, nada crumbled like a

house of cards. " How could you?! " followed by sobbing and running off to her

bedroom. Kinda funny in hindsight (actually, kinda comical at the time too.

hey, you gotta grab humor where you can in a BPD house

BTW, I mean in no way to minimize the original thread topic, which is, as so

many BPD words and actions, tragic--nobody should ever be subject to such a

statement. I don't recall nada ever saying *that* to us--that would be far too

assertive for her, I think. she just used to say repeatedly, " I wish I never

had kids " or some variant like " I never should have had kids. "

-lisa

>

> Hi , I paid dearly for my " smartass " ways, though, and I wonder if

> your sister did as well. Nada was ALWAYS mad at me, even if I didn't say/do

> anything..I learned a long time ago there was no pleasing her so I mostly

> stropped trying, and started making my own little digs back at her....but I

> was always getting grounded for 2 weeks for this or that, when my siblings

> if they did the same thing, were just yelled at...plus other things...my

> siblings were allowed much more freedom that I ever was, so that was my way

> of rebelling.. my sisters curfew was 11 on week days and 1 on weekends..I

> wasn't allowed out on week days, and my curfew was 10 on weekends...even

> when I was older then the age my sister was at when she could stay out

> later. I never did anything wrong when out.. I wasn't a wild kid, and I was

> NOT rebellious or a smartass to anyone except nada..

>

>

> Jackie

>

>

> Hi Jackie,

> You remind me of my sister~ she was able to fight with my mom and give it

> all

> right back to her. I used to get mad at her, when I was younger, but then I

> was glad,

> because I could never do it. I thought she was brave that way. She stood

> up to what I

> think is almost the scariest thing there is....a raging hair-trigger nada!

> ~patricia

>

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

I wrote this in my reply to ; but I am afraid of confrontation too. It

scares me and I avoid it

to my detriment. I don't want people mad at me and I fear that they might

be mad at me but not

tell me the truth... (another things that scares me)

~p

Re: Re: anyone remember?

I got to the point where I dont want any one mad at me, but if they are,

then I'll deal with it if they ever tell me...

my main thing is I dont like confrontation and will do almost anything to

avoid it...

Jackie

I was always in trouble and someone mad at me too. unfortunately, now it

makes me always wonder who's mad at me and I drive my therapist nuts

thinking

she's mad about something.

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

I am sure you did pay dearly; I am sorry it was so difficult; I know these

things really get into

us deeply and affect our adult lives. My parents didn't really give us curfews

or ground us. Pretty

much we did what we want. My brother and I never really got into trouble,

though I smoked a lot of

pot, as did he. My sister rebelled and got into trouble at school and did major

drugs and drinking.

That whole time period affected her entire adult life. She got pregnant at 17

and she stopped doing

drugs then and began to raise children, but her life was still troubled with

addiction on and off.

Ultimately on.

~p

Re: Re: anyone remember?

Hi , I paid dearly for my " smartass " ways, though, and I wonder if

your sister did as well. Nada was ALWAYS mad at me, even if I didn't say/do

anything..I learned a long time ago there was no pleasing her so I mostly

stropped trying, and started making my own little digs back at her....but I

was always getting grounded for 2 weeks for this or that, when my siblings

if they did the same thing, were just yelled at...plus other things...my

siblings were allowed much more freedom that I ever was, so that was my way

of rebelling.. my sisters curfew was 11 on week days and 1 on weekends..I

wasn't allowed out on week days, and my curfew was 10 on weekends...even

when I was older then the age my sister was at when she could stay out

later. I never did anything wrong when out.. I wasn't a wild kid, and I was

NOT rebellious or a smartass to anyone except nada..

Jackie

Hi Jackie,

You remind me of my sister~ she was able to fight with my mom and give it

all

right back to her. I used to get mad at her, when I was younger, but then I

was glad,

because I could never do it. I thought she was brave that way. She stood

up to what I

think is almost the scariest thing there is....a raging hair-trigger nada!

~patricia

------------------------------------

Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @....

SEND HER ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to �Understanding the Borderline

Mother� (Lawson) and �Surviving the Borderline Parent,� (Roth) which you

can find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Wow, Everything has always been my fault in my nada's view. But I finally

realize at 52 that is not the truth. After my daughter and I being the subject

of one of her rages in December, I vow that I will never subject myself or my

daughter (she's 21 and that was her first experience with her like that) to that

again. She has a safety plan that she uses when she visits, but I am very

minimal contact. Having made that decision and seeing the situation with a

fresh and healthy perspective, I feel happy and at ease for the first time.

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sat, January 30, 2010 3:53:16 PM

Subject: Re: Re: anyone remember?

not my nada...it was always our fault she went into a rage, we " made her "

do it !! yes, I remember well holding a gun to her head and saying " rage at

us or I'll blow your brains out!! "

Jackie

I remember in a few of her rages that she might have felt a twinge of

guilt, but then she would come back with, " why do you think you deserve

anything? nobody ever gave me anything! "

[Guest guest]

nope, I'm the youngest of 5.

Jackie

I'm curious about something:

Jackie, were you the eldest child?

, were you the youngest or not the eldest? I'm the youngest of two

daughters and your words could have been coming out of my mouth! I recently

told my sister how much I worshiped her the day she smacked nada back (we

were in high school at the time). Interestingly, sister had virtually no

recollection of it, but time slowed for me watching it--I remember every

detail of it. (One of the early working titles of my autobiography was,

" Hitting Mom " --that's how profound it was for me.) Standing up for myself

or retaliation <gasp> was completely out of the question for me--wayyyy too

terrified. HOWEVER, interestingly enough, when sister smacked nada, nada

crumbled like a house of cards. " How could you?! " followed by sobbing and

running off to her bedroom. Kinda funny in hindsight (actually, kinda

comical at the time too. hey, you gotta grab humor where you can in a BPD

house

[Guest guest]

oh, yes !! punishment would be really long and harsh if I were late by 5

minutes or if I was messing around in the house and broke something

Jackie

And everything was over-the-top dramatic too. It could be natural childhood

thing you've done wrong and nada would act like it was

the.end.of.the.freaking.world. I felt like my punishments never ended. If I

told a lie, I was

reminded for weeks, MONTHS, even years with some things, about what I had

done.

[Guest guest]

it sure is :-(

Jackie

I agree. They thrive on the drama and high emotions they elicit on everyone

around them. It's so destructive, their behavior.

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah...or making too much noise or not moving fast enough or moving too fast

or chewing too loud or laughing too loud or not laughing in the right moment or

crying over something....it never ended.

Re: Re: anyone remember?

oh, yes !! punishment would be really long and harsh if I were late by 5

minutes or if I was messing around in the house and broke something

Jackie

And everything was over-the-top dramatic too. It could be natural childhood

thing you've done wrong and nada would act like it was

the.end.of.the.freaking.world. I felt like my punishments never ended. If I

told a lie, I was

reminded for weeks, MONTHS, even years with some things, about what I had

done.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Okay, so birth order is irrelevant-or at least maybe not primary.

I think you're onto something--perhaps it's more related to the pigeonholing of

good child/no-good child. which terms, by the way, I think are kind of

misleading--they sent me down a wrong path when I first started reflecting on

them. I was taking them too literally, I think. I thought I was the Good

child--and I *was* the good child; I was the perfect child, but I was not the

Preferred Child wrt Nada. my sister, who was actually quite not-good, was the

Preferred Child, the golden child. My sister lied consistently, was rebellious,

sneaky, greedy, sloppy, kind of mean, really, and in general, not Good. She

was, however, nada's favorite. And, as I think about it, she does, like your

sister, share nada's temperament. So yeah, I think you're right: that little

tiny pearl of <some kind of> validation is maybe what gave our sisters the

strength and ability to stand separately from our nadas and fight back.

I am so with you on confrontation avoidance and being bullied when I was

younger. I still sort of feel like I have an invisible target on me that

somehow projects " Bully Me " . I'm actively working on this because it's gotten

to be a serious impediment in my life. My natural predisposition is to

immediately believe someone else is right and I'm wrong--total pushover!

And we had the same dynamic where nada would have nothing of any fighting--we

were shushed. And yep, the underlying directive for me was: whatever you do,

don't waken the sleeping giant, The Rage. Were you shy as a child? I was

painfully shy; sister, not at all.

-l

> >

> > Hi , I paid dearly for my " smartass " ways, though, and I wonder if

> > your sister did as well. Nada was ALWAYS mad at me, even if I didn't

say/do

> > anything..I learned a long time ago there was no pleasing her so I mostly

> > stropped trying, and started making my own little digs back at her....but

I

> > was always getting grounded for 2 weeks for this or that, when my siblings

> > if they did the same thing, were just yelled at...plus other things...my

> > siblings were allowed much more freedom that I ever was, so that was my

way

> > of rebelling.. my sisters curfew was 11 on week days and 1 on

weekends..I

> > wasn't allowed out on week days, and my curfew was 10 on weekends...even

> > when I was older then the age my sister was at when she could stay out

> > later. I never did anything wrong when out.. I wasn't a wild kid, and I

was

> > NOT rebellious or a smartass to anyone except nada..

> >

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > Hi Jackie,

> > You remind me of my sister~ she was able to fight with my mom and give it

> > all

> > right back to her. I used to get mad at her, when I was younger, but then

I

> > was glad,

> > because I could never do it. I thought she was brave that way. She stood

> > up to what I

> > think is almost the scariest thing there is....a raging hair-trigger nada!

> > ~patricia

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What you wrote made me remember how I always thought of myself as the *good*

child. The one who would always keep the peace and

do the *right* thing. I did well in school and went to college, I never fought

with my parents. I didn't have a tv in my room and so I would

hang out with them. I kept them *company* (even if they didn't know it). My

brother would go up in his room and isolate himself (he was

the *artist* so he would draw and feel special and superior; he had this great

room when we moved into a bigger house, it was like a third

floor and huge). My sister of course rebelled and did drugs and fought with my

mom.

It took me a long time to get past all that. To understand what was going on.

What I made myself believe. Actually I am not past it all.

I understand my sister's behavior. But I still resent my brother. That's

probably because we have never really bonded (except for a

short time when I would go visit him in Maine and go hiking with him). He

doesn't show a lot of insight to his behavior. How he treated me

when we were growing up. But I see how we were set up and in a lot of ways kept

from caring for each other AS children. My sister and

I came to that more as adults.

My sister was the preferred child when we were really young and my brother when

we were older. I was always *too serious* or *like

my dad*. Though my mom always confided in me and made me like her parent, but

then would get mad at me for *being like her parent*!

I was shy and super self conscious as a child. I was bullied and teased. But I

tried to go under the radar. I would fake confidence when

I could, or act like I didn't care. It escalated until 7th grade when one day

on the bus the boys were throwing things at me. I remember

a teacher came to my locker (I guess someone told him) and he was angry. I

thought he was mad at ME! But he was mad what happened. And

he asked me about it. I think I was crying at my locker...I did not usually do

that; let anyone see me crack. Then we moved and I had a chance

to re-invent myself which I think I did okay with. My sister had a hard time at

that point and so her downhill spiral.

As an adult, I am pretty social and though I might have times of self

consciousness, I am not very shy. Just reserved until I know what the

deal is. My sister, though rebellious, was also a shy trusting person. She hid

her vulnerability.

You know, I look at families that seem *normal* (there is that word again) and I

feel a loneliness. I always did. I never felt enfolded in love

amongst my family. I still don't (what is left of it). It's a different kind

of love. I wonder if I will ever have that feeling....I felt that

way with my boyfriend over the summer and I was like: what is this feeling? And

I realized it was love and happiness. It was a really good

feeling~

Ah well...this is long and beyond your questions!

~patricia

Re: anyone remember?

Hi ,

Okay, so birth order is irrelevant-or at least maybe not primary.

I think you're onto something--perhaps it's more related to the pigeonholing

of good child/no-good child. which terms, by the way, I think are kind of

misleading--they sent me down a wrong path when I first started reflecting on

them. I was taking them too literally, I think. I thought I was the Good

child--and I *was* the good child; I was the perfect child, but I was not the

Preferred Child wrt Nada. my sister, who was actually quite not-good, was the

Preferred Child, the golden child. My sister lied consistently, was rebellious,

sneaky, greedy, sloppy, kind of mean, really, and in general, not Good. She

was, however, nada's favorite. And, as I think about it, she does, like your

sister, share nada's temperament. So yeah, I think you're right: that little

tiny pearl of <some kind of> validation is maybe what gave our sisters the

strength and ability to stand separately from our nadas and fight back.

I am so with you on confrontation avoidance and being bullied when I was

younger. I still sort of feel like I have an invisible target on me that

somehow projects " Bully Me " . I'm actively working on this because it's gotten

to be a serious impediment in my life. My natural predisposition is to

immediately believe someone else is right and I'm wrong--total pushover!

And we had the same dynamic where nada would have nothing of any fighting--we

were shushed. And yep, the underlying directive for me was: whatever you do,

don't waken the sleeping giant, The Rage. Were you shy as a child? I was

painfully shy; sister, not at all.

-l

> >

> > Hi , I paid dearly for my " smartass " ways, though, and I wonder

if

> > your sister did as well. Nada was ALWAYS mad at me, even if I didn't

say/do

> > anything..I learned a long time ago there was no pleasing her so I

mostly

> > stropped trying, and started making my own little digs back at

her....but I

> > was always getting grounded for 2 weeks for this or that, when my

siblings

> > if they did the same thing, were just yelled at...plus other things...my

> > siblings were allowed much more freedom that I ever was, so that was my

way

> > of rebelling.. my sisters curfew was 11 on week days and 1 on

weekends..I

> > wasn't allowed out on week days, and my curfew was 10 on weekends...even

> > when I was older then the age my sister was at when she could stay out

> > later. I never did anything wrong when out.. I wasn't a wild kid, and I

was

> > NOT rebellious or a smartass to anyone except nada..

> >

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> > Hi Jackie,

> > You remind me of my sister~ she was able to fight with my mom and give

it

> > all

> > right back to her. I used to get mad at her, when I was younger, but

then I

> > was glad,

> > because I could never do it. I thought she was brave that way. She

stood

> > up to what I

> > think is almost the scariest thing there is....a raging hair-trigger

nada!

> > ~patricia

> >

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Wow, what a horrible experience regarding your nada trying to crash the car!

What a surprise that she gave no thought to the life of the child also in

the car. Good on the doctors for finally doing something.

After my nada's many threats of suicide, at one point it just got old. You

folks are probably the only ones who will understand taking the risk to call

their bluff. I was still living at home in my early twenties (The

consequences for even thinking of moving were cruelly dramatic.) when she

pulled the last suicide scene. My role was to break down the bathroom door

and wrestle the .357 from her, while telling her how much I love her.

Instead, I walked away. I thought, " Go ahead then. I'm not getting shot. "

She didn't follow through.

Now, I wondered for years whether I took the right risk. I never told anyone

because I sound so horrible. Years later, my mother figure BP ex would die

of a self-inflicted gunshot wound while holed up in my house.

Intellectually, I know I'm not responsible, especially since my ex planned

to kill me first. Yet I keep thinking I *should* feel responsible and that I

would have been responsible if my nada had killed herself. After all of

this, I still don't trust myself and wonder if others who don't know the

whole of both stories have the more correct opinion of my fault.

B.

_____

From: WTOAdultChildren1

[mailto:WTOAdultChildren1 ] On Behalf Of doug883@...

Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 2:29 PM

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Subject: Re: anyone remember?

My nada was very verbal and hystrionic about suicidal ideations. Once,

when I was about 14, and she and my dad were in the process of

splitting up, she left a confrontation with him, with me in the car, and

, screaming hysterically, pointed the car at a bridge abuttment and

floored it. Of course, we were some distance from it, but at that

moment I feared for my life and took the wheel and turned off the key.

At this point, she screamed at me, in a high , shrill sound like a dying

animal, her face blood red, telling me NEVER to do that again, did I

know how dangerous it was to grab the wheel when someone was driving a

car? You could have got us killed! ( Now one who understands BPD will

nod sadly, and say, uh huh, but for a 14 yo kid, aside from the absolute

terror of the moment, was the thought WTF? What did YOU just try to do.

)

She used suicide attempts, always timed so that it was when it was just

her and her teen aged son around, so I had to wrestle knives away from

her, or pills, or whatever was at hand, and then assure her of my love

through snot bubbles and sobs. She did this for years, and always when

it was just us around to witness it.

I often wondered, what would happen if I called her bluff?

I finally found out. About 6 years before her death, she pulled "

nervous breakdown " at her Dr s office, crying uncontrollably, and making

suicidal ideations. They called me to come and take her to the hospital,

and the instant we were outside his office the crying ceased. Some

nervous breakdown, huh?

A few months later, she tried it again, and this time the Family

Practicioner came into the room, and got her psychiatrist on the phone,

and they told her in view of her suicidal comments, unless she agreed to

go into the hospital, in the psych ward, they would do a mental hygiene

petition and have her committed. She was mad at them the rest of her

life for that, but she went.

And never mentioned suicide again.

It took 30 years, though.

Doug

[Guest guest]

Yes, my Nada would also remind me of mistakes or minor deviances if you could

even call them that. some of the accusations make no sense what so ever. She

omits different details and truths and it becomes even more distorted in her

favor. As long as she has a total lack of responsibility and role playing in

order to dump situations on others as much as she can.

-Joy

>

> And everything was over-the-top dramatic too. It could be natural childhood

> thing you've done wrong and nada would act like it was

> the.end.of.the.freaking.world. I felt like my punishments never ended. If I

told a lie, I was

> reminded for weeks, MONTHS, even years with some things, about what I had

> done.

>

>

> In a message dated 1/30/2010 5:02:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> sleddog@... writes:

>

>

>

>

> yup, same here...it was always someone who MADE her react ....I once told

> her she gets mad because she LIKES to be mad..otherwise she would try to

> control herself...oooh.control herself...oooh.<WBR>..wrong thing to

> say...anoth

> for my mouth washed out with ivory soap...

>

> Jackie

>

> my mother always made me responsible for her emotions...she always, always,

> always blamed other people for how she felt and reacted.

>

>

>

>

>

>