Re: New to Navigating boundaries w/Nada

[Guest guest]

Hi Jess, I agree with everything Ashana said, but would like to add that I've

had better luck with limited contact, as opposed to no contact. Most of us love

our Nadas despite all the pain, and most adhere to a belief system that tells us

to honor our parents...so with the " no contact " option we actually end up

hurting ourselves.

I'd suggest setting a strict limit on the number of phone calls and visits, and

the length of time alotted for these. E-mails should be brief and warm -- they

do not work well for hashing out problems. Also it's good to develop a set of

acceptable topics (ie health, family news, weather, food, movies) leaving out

the topics that stir up intense emotions. For anything else, just kindly say " I

don't want to go into that mom. It's too upsetting for us when we get into it, "

and hold your ground or if necessary hang up saying, " I'm sorry mom, but this is

too upsetting for me. I have to go. I'll call you back later (or next week,

etc). I love you. "

Even if you have to choke out the " I love you " it's worth it. This solution

balances kindness and honor to Nada with kindness and honor to yourself. You

don't say if you have children, but if you do, this sets an example for them --

and you surely DO want them saying " I love you " at the end of every phone call

you ever have with them!

It was also a big relief for me when I stopped hoping to change Nada and

accepted that she is sick and emotionally disabled, it's not my fault, it's not

her fault, and it is sad, but I won't wallow in self-pity and I can deal with

it. This is a boundary that makes sense -- when you find yourself wanting to

get her to change, back off.

I'm 57 years old and have been LC since I was 17 -- I've had a good life, a

great husband, a beautiful family, good friends, and a reasonably clear

conscience. Is the struggle with Nada a dark spot in that life? Yes. But Nada

(plus lots of therapy) also made me stronger and more compassionate to others

than I might have been. She gave me life and did her best. There have been

moments when I have glimpsed the " real " mom she might have been. I pray that

science continues to find answers to treat and prevent this problem! Imagine a

world where all the Nadas became a powerful force for good...

Blessings to you -

>

> Hey Everyone,

>

> I recently drew a line with my nada via email. I explained to her that the

reason I haven't been returning her phone calls was because I did not like the

way she spoke to me the last time we spoke (before Christmas). I told her I felt

during that phone call like she was attacking me and I didn't know why. I also

said that if she is angry with me about something, I'm open to hearing about it,

but that I don't want to be berated or judged for being quiet when I'm trying to

listen and be helpful. I also told her that I had felt she was attacking me

during a lot of my last visit to her in November. I stopped short of saying

" I've felt attacked by you for much of the last 35 years and THAT's why I'm

upset " .

>

> Anyway, her response contained a lot of what I've come to understand as

typical BPD bs - complaining that she can't possibly articulate herself in " a

format as impersonal as email " (this despite the fact that she originally

reached out to me over email to say she was upset that our relationship seemed

to be deteriorating). She also denied that she spoke to me in an angry way,

throwing it back on me, saying it's my fault for being too secretive and touchy

about my personal life. She seems to think I owe it to her as a daughter to

share my innermost thoughts all the time (enmeshment?) The saddest part was that

she said that she's not really under all that much stress and she's " embarassed "

that I would think she needed me to help her - this is after watching her and my

stepdad argue about his declining health/doctor visits when I visited, and

hearing her talk non-stop about how tight things are money-wise. Oh man, she

doesn't make any sense. It makes incredibly sad to see this is how she deals

with my attempt to start healing our relationship.

>

> Anyway, I'm not sure what to do now. I haven't responded to her email. I

guess I'm still in the 'acceptance' phase of grieving the loss of my childhood

and the mother she never was and never will be. I have a lot of other stresses

in my life right now - my father (who divorced her when I was 4 - I now know

that this was because of her BPD) is dying of ALS, I have my own $ worries, and

my boyfriend has needed to be alone the last few months to get over a serious

depression. Crazy times, and I don't want to make them crazier by engaging with

someone who behaves like such a loose cannon. Oh, and I forgot to mention, she

also has a very hard time being happy for me when things are going well. She

picks apart everything I say I'm doing, trying to find the flaw in my logic. My

career in particular has been a big point of contention - my work really feeds

my soul, and I think that's inconceivable to her. I guess that's typical BPD

behavior too. God forbid I should threaten her hold on me by finding my own

happiness. It's so sad.

>

> Anyway, thanks for listening. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts about how

they decided whether to go NC or not. Although it's hard for me to imagine

actually telling her I don't want contact, it's sure been nice to draw a line

and know that I am in charge of my own boundaries. It's also been nice not to

talk to her. I miss the 'good' times, but I don't miss feeling knots in my

stomach wondering when she'll explode next.

>

> Peace,

>

> Jess

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Doug,

Thank you for putting this so clearly and bluntly. It is true. Takes many

years sometimes

to really come to this realization. When you say: not a child to be nurtured,

loved, cherished...that is

the really strange and painful part.

Grieving is such an odd process; it's not something we can *do* but something

that happens within us,

once we let go of *something*. And healing I think is the same way. We can

provoke those things, offer

ourselves to them, yet the organic process is so unusual to our thinking minds.

~patricia

Re: New to Navigating boundaries w/Nada

The hard thing, the brutal truth, about LC or NC, is accepting the awful

pain that our own mothers will hold on to their disease and

manipulations and defenses even at the cost of us, their children.

The truth, so painful, is that we didnt have a mother. We had a Not a

Mother, nada. And for nada, we are not a child to be nurtured, loved ,

and cherished, we are a prize to show off, a possession to use, a

scapegoat to vent , but never, ever that cherished, loved, and known

child.

It hurts badly that we must establish bounderies in order to have any

sort of tolerable, let alone healthy, relationship with our mother. But

it is the truth. Once we accept that truth, and grieve that loss, we can

begin to heal.

May we all heal.

Doug

> >

> > Hey Everyone,

> >

> > I recently drew a line with my nada via email. I explained to her

that the reason I haven't been returning her phone calls was because I

did not like the way she spoke to me the last time we spoke (before

Christmas). I told her I felt during that phone call like she was

attacking me and I didn't know why. I also said that if she is angry

with me about something, I'm open to hearing about it, but that I don't

want to be berated or judged for being quiet when I'm trying to listen

and be helpful. I also told her that I had felt she was attacking me

during a lot of my last visit to her in November. I stopped short of

saying " I've felt attacked by you for much of the last 35 years and

THAT's why I'm upset " .

> >

> > Anyway, her response contained a lot of what I've come to understand

as typical BPD bs - complaining that she can't possibly articulate

herself in " a format as impersonal as email " (this despite the fact that

she originally reached out to me over email to say she was upset that

our relationship seemed to be deteriorating). She also denied that she

spoke to me in an angry way, throwing it back on me, saying it's my

fault for being too secretive and touchy about my personal life. She

seems to think I owe it to her as a daughter to share my innermost

thoughts all the time (enmeshment?) The saddest part was that she said

that she's not really under all that much stress and she's " embarassed "

that I would think she needed me to help her - this is after watching

her and my stepdad argue about his declining health/doctor visits when I

visited, and hearing her talk non-stop about how tight things are

money-wise. Oh man, she doesn't make any sense. It makes incredibly sad

to see this is how she deals with my attempt to start healing our

relationship.

> >

> > Anyway, I'm not sure what to do now. I haven't responded to her

email. I guess I'm still in the 'acceptance' phase of grieving the loss

of my childhood and the mother she never was and never will be. I have a

lot of other stresses in my life right now - my father (who divorced her

when I was 4 - I now know that this was because of her BPD) is dying of

ALS, I have my own $ worries, and my boyfriend has needed to be alone

the last few months to get over a serious depression. Crazy times, and I

don't want to make them crazier by engaging with someone who behaves

like such a loose cannon. Oh, and I forgot to mention, she also has a

very hard time being happy for me when things are going well. She picks

apart everything I say I'm doing, trying to find the flaw in my logic.

My career in particular has been a big point of contention - my work

really feeds my soul, and I think that's inconceivable to her. I guess

that's typical BPD behavior too. God forbid I should threaten her hold

on me by finding my own happiness. It's so sad.

> >

> > Anyway, thanks for listening. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts

about how they decided whether to go NC or not. Although it's hard for

me to imagine actually telling her I don't want contact, it's sure been

nice to draw a line and know that I am in charge of my own boundaries.

It's also been nice not to talk to her. I miss the 'good' times, but I

don't miss feeling knots in my stomach wondering when she'll explode

next.

> >

> > Peace,

> >

> > Jess

> >

>

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From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE and

the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

At one time, I said in all seriousness, a crappy family is better than

no family. After many years, and a great deal of help from a wise,

compassionate, and Godly T, I came to a revised but better conclusion.

A family with the bounderies it takes for me to be healthy, a family

that I forgive, so that I m not eaten up with bitterness that hurts no

one but me, a family from whom I take the little good and loving time

that I can have, is better than bitterly choosing no family at all.

A crappy family is not better than no family. A family in which I can

have some family, even though I have to do all the work, I have to set

all the bounderies, I have to forever be the only adult, is for me,

better than no family at all.

Always in front of me is the reality that unless I do the work, no

family is the choice. Always in front of me is the reality that if I

chose to let it go because my bounderies were not respected, no one

would come to seek me out. I m faced with the truth that I can only

have what I m willing to work hard for, and it will be far less than

what normal families would have.

It s sad. But, I can choose it. And have a bit of family.

Knowing that at any time, without my choice, it could move to the place

I become an orphan again.

I ll take that little I can have, for as long as I have. Is it any

wonder , that if we heal, and when we heal, we are so remarkably strong?

My friends, my siblings in spirit, my fellow sojourners, may we all

heal. May we find family in each other.

Doug

> > > >

> > > > Hey Everyone,

> > > >

> > > > I recently drew a line with my nada via email. I explained to

her

> > that the reason I haven't been returning her phone calls was because

I

> > did not like the way she spoke to me the last time we spoke (before

> > Christmas). I told her I felt during that phone call like she was

> > attacking me and I didn't know why. I also said that if she is angry

> > with me about something, I'm open to hearing about it, but that I

don't

> > want to be berated or judged for being quiet when I'm trying to

listen

> > and be helpful. I also told her that I had felt she was attacking me

> > during a lot of my last visit to her in November. I stopped short of

> > saying " I've felt attacked by you for much of the last 35 years and

> > THAT's why I'm upset " .

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, her response contained a lot of what I've come to

understand

> > as typical BPD bs - complaining that she can't possibly articulate

> > herself in " a format as impersonal as email " (this despite the fact

that

> > she originally reached out to me over email to say she was upset

that

> > our relationship seemed to be deteriorating). She also denied that

she

> > spoke to me in an angry way, throwing it back on me, saying it's my

> > fault for being too secretive and touchy about my personal life. She

> > seems to think I owe it to her as a daughter to share my innermost

> > thoughts all the time (enmeshment?) The saddest part was that she

said

> > that she's not really under all that much stress and she's

" embarassed "

> > that I would think she needed me to help her - this is after

watching

> > her and my stepdad argue about his declining health/doctor visits

when I

> > visited, and hearing her talk non-stop about how tight things are

> > money-wise. Oh man, she doesn't make any sense. It makes incredibly

sad

> > to see this is how she deals with my attempt to start healing our

> > relationship.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, I'm not sure what to do now. I haven't responded to her

> > email. I guess I'm still in the 'acceptance' phase of grieving the

loss

> > of my childhood and the mother she never was and never will be. I

have a

> > lot of other stresses in my life right now - my father (who divorced

her

> > when I was 4 - I now know that this was because of her BPD) is dying

of

> > ALS, I have my own $ worries, and my boyfriend has needed to be

alone

> > the last few months to get over a serious depression. Crazy times,

and I

> > don't want to make them crazier by engaging with someone who behaves

> > like such a loose cannon. Oh, and I forgot to mention, she also has

a

> > very hard time being happy for me when things are going well. She

picks

> > apart everything I say I'm doing, trying to find the flaw in my

logic.

> > My career in particular has been a big point of contention - my work

> > really feeds my soul, and I think that's inconceivable to her. I

guess

> > that's typical BPD behavior too. God forbid I should threaten her

hold

> > on me by finding my own happiness. It's so sad.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, thanks for listening. I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts

> > about how they decided whether to go NC or not. Although it's hard

for

> > me to imagine actually telling her I don't want contact, it's sure

been

> > nice to draw a line and know that I am in charge of my own

boundaries.

> > It's also been nice not to talk to her. I miss the 'good' times, but

I

> > don't miss feeling knots in my stomach wondering when she'll explode

> > next.

> > > >

> > > > Peace,

> > > >

> > > > Jess

> > > >

> > >

> >

>