Ramping up on Armour (was Re: Newby)

[Guest guest]

With that kind of a schedule I'd be on the floor, motionless by the

middle of the third week, if I made it that long...

It takes 4 to 6 weeks for the T4 to build up in the tissues... So by the

time the T4 from the second increase has started building up you've

already increased 4 to 6 times on top of that... You could be so over

dosed by the time you realized it you could be in some serious hurt....

I still recommend 4 to 6 weeks between dosage increases.. if Hypo

symptoms return before that period of time it's okay to do a small

increase and then start the clock over....

I just went through a hyper phase when trying to increase from 2 1/2

grain to 3 grain... I had to drop down to one grain for about a month

before I started to slow down and start to show hypo (that the excess T4

had been used up) and then could go back to my previous dose of 2 1/2

grain... I held on that for about three weeks and started on an

alternating day schedule (2 1/2 one day 3 the next, alternating) about a

week ago to see if I could tweak me up just a bit more....

I have 2 grain tabs that I quarter, so the increases are in 1/2 grain

doses... I was doing just fine on 2 1/2, but I'm curious what a wee bit

more would do for me..

Topper () *14 years post RAI for hyperthyroid, thyroid destroyed.

Now self-medicating with Naturals for 18 months and feeling better than

I ever did under doctor's care with synthetic T4 only*

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:10:57 -0800

writes:

>

[Guest guest]

Some folks can't take increases that closely together.. those of us with

sensitive systems and or adrenal issues would be showing hyper symptoms

and extreme stress.

The point remains... that T4 takes 4 to 6 weeks to build up in the

tissues... by increasing dosages at 1 and 2 week intervals you are not

allowing enough time for the T4 that is building up to exhibit symptoms

of over dose if that is the case.

For someone that is new to Natural thyroid and unfamiliar with the dose

that would be correct for them and for someone that is new to thyroid

supplementation and whose tissues are depleted of stores of T4... dosage

protocol is different.

As you stated yourself

" (3) It should enable the patient to determine the optimal dose without

having to temporarily discontinue or reduce the medication due to

overshooting the target. It is much easier to approach the target dose

from below than from above. "

But with dosage increases at 1 and 2 weeks... you can easily over shoot

the target dose and have another 2 to 6 increases past that before

symptoms have built to show over dose.

I've often wondered if those that are on high doses of thyroid and/or

suffering for T3 resistance may actually be exhibiting the after effects

of increasing dosages too quickly or starting too high....

I had RAI, my thyroid was destroyed... and even so I'm still doing very

very well on less than 3 grain... It just makes me wonder why.... Did I

allow my body to adjust more gradually, avoiding hormone resistance? Is

it because of the multi-dosing and better utilization of the hormone/less

waste..?

So many questions...

I did my increase by 1/2 grain increments... at 6 to 12 week intervals...

as I felt my body was ready for an increase. I began Adrenal

supplementation at the 7 month mark... and then continued increasing both

the adrenal and the thyroid very 4 weeks... but not at the same time...

so, for example.. I would increase the thyroid at week 1, the adrenal at

week 3, the thyroid at week 5, the adrenal at week 7 and so on... so that

my system had time to adjust and so that I could observe symptoms or

improvements and be able to have a better idea of it's being due to an

increase in adrenal or an increase in thyroid.

Topper ()

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:27:53 -0800

writes:

> Ramping up on Armour (was " Re:

> Newby " )

>

> > With that kind of a schedule I'd be on the floor, motionless by

> the

> > middle of the third week, if I made it that long...

>

>

> I don't get your point here.

>

>

> > It takes 4 to 6 weeks for the T4 to build up in the tissues... So

> by the

> > time the T4 from the second increase has started building up

> you've

> > already increased 4 to 6 times on top of that... You could be so

> over

> > dosed by the time you realized it you could be in some serious

> hurt....

>

>

> By the time I reach 2 grains, the T4-equivalent dose is 150 mcg

> (assuming, and many *do* make this assumption, that T3 is 4 times

> as biologically active as T4). Some endocrinologists start their

> patients immediately on 150 mcg of T4. I will admit that this could

> be

> a problem for someone whose optimal thyroid dose was less than 2

> grains of Armour.

>

>

> In my opinion, any good " ramping up " protocol for Armour (or any

> other

> desiccated thyroid product) should have the following characteristics:

>

> (1) It should minimize the *risk* of physiological stress (e.g.,

> unmasking subclinical adrenal insufficiency) and minimize the

> *amount* of physiological stress (e.g., the effects of excessive

> exogenous thyroid hormone, the stress of not getting better quickly

> enough).

>

> (2) It should reach the optimal thyroid dose as fast as possible.

>

> (3) It should enable the patient to determine the optimal dose

> without

> having to temporarily discontinue or reduce the medication due to

> overshooting the target. It is much easier to approach the target

> dose

> from below than from above.

>

> (4) It should be able to be used successfully by the vast majority

> of

> hypothyroid patients.

>

>

> On reviewing my protocol, I would probably change it to have more

> weeks between successive dose increases. For example,

>

> (1) Increase dose every week:

>

> Week 1: add 1/4 grain.

>

> Week 2: add 1/4 grain.

>

> (2) Increase dose every second week:

>

> Week 4: add 1/4 grain.

>

> Week 6: add 1/4 grain.

>

> (3) Increase dose every third week:

>

> Week 9: add 1/4 grain.

>

> Week 12: add 1/4 grain.

>

> (4) Increase dose every fourth week:

>

> Week 16: add 1/4 grain.

>

> Week 20: add 1/4 grain.

>

> (5) Increase dose every fifth-sixth week:

>

> Week 25/26: add 1/4 grain.

>

> Add an additional 1/4 grain every 5-6 weeks, until 1) my

> symptoms

> resolve, 2) I notice no further improvement, or 3) I

> develop symptoms

> of excessive thyroid activity (i.e., mild hyperthyroidism),

> in which

> case I would reduce the dose by 1/4 grain.

>

*************************************************************************

********

>

> Topper (), what's your protocol?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I live in southeast Alabama. And yes, the weather is nice......68

degrees and sunny yesterday.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----

From: VITO LABELLARTE

) where are you at Debbie? You are 4 hours away from him? You are so

blessed..I truly dream of moving down south, just to be closer to his

office....well and for the nice winter weather too!! LOL

Hugs..PattiSue

[Guest guest]

PattiSue,

That would be great! Would he actually do this?? What a gem!

Janet

> I truly believe that either protocol is good, yet I have seen in many many

cases the

way my doc in Georgia treats his patients and 60 mgs each week increased until

about 240 is the norm...and all of his patients do very very well. He puts them

on

adrenal support right from the get go...and they are so much better

quickly...there is

NO time to go back wards...have repeat symptoms. And he has yet to see a

patient

go into Hyper....the closest they get is shakey hands inbetween 180 - 240 and

they

are instructed as to what to do when that happens. They are told to decrease by

at

least 30 mgs. If you'd all like, I can have him write to this forum as to how

he came

to this treatment...what his basis for it is....and maybe he'll answer questions

for each

of us. Is that something that any of you would be willing to do.

> I am being totally honest when I say that I've never seen anyone go hyper

under his

treatment...and the reason I went hyper was....I wanted to lose more weight,

ignored

hyper symptoms...just to achieve a certain weight!! It was all my fault when I

increased myself, when he told me to stop.

> If any of you would like to hear from Dr. Milton, I would be glad to set that

up for

us all.

> Hugs..PattiSue

> I say all of this because if a woman/man doesn't really need to go that slowly

in

treatment, and can avoid any type of " set back, frustration " then they don't

really have

too and can with knowledge and comfort...go foward and be aggressive with this

disease. The aggressive treatment saved my life. I can't imagine wasting any

time

while I was getting better.