Re: Nada and sexual inappropriateness

[Guest guest]

,you got that right: it was like an episode from the Twilight Zone with

the men in white coats coming after me and leaving the lunatics at

liberty...that whole year was liking finding myself in the docket of the

kangaroo court,it was one hell of a year.I had tried several times

previously--and on my own--to get the principal of the school to do something

about the teacher.He yelled at me,red faced and furious,not to ever say such

horrible things about my teacher even again,trying to intimidate me into

shutting up.The teacher knew he had an ally in the principal and on days when I

really fought back against the abuse,he sent me down to his office to be

punished.By the Spring I had to resort to bluffing to the principal by

threatening to " call the media " and the school board about the teacher if he

punished me one more time.We had an incident one day when he wouldn't stop

shouting at me so I reached for the telephone like I was really going to call

(in truth I didn't think anyone would believe me).He snatched the phone away and

I told him that was fine,I had a telephone at home and if he brought me into his

office one more time,I would make those calls and did he understand that? He

grumbled, " This is ridiculous " --I told him, " No,you are ridiculous " and walked

out.I then told the teacher that he was also on notice and if he involved the

principal one more time I would have him exposed on tv.I was never sent to the

principal's office again and the one time he had to come to our classroom

because I had intentionally caused an uproar to make the teacher look like an

ass (by the end of the school year and this was after the family therapy I just

wanted to make that bastard pay and I was no longer afraid of being

punished)--anyway when the principal came up to our class I said to him when he

walked in, " I'm going to take off from school tomorrow and go in person to the

superintendant's office if you say ONE FUCKING WORD to me " and he turned around

and walked out.

I wish now that I had done just that,but it seemed like bluffing was all

I had.I knew that it would destroy me,too,if I really did try again to get help

and got rejected again.So I settled for a hollow victory.

I also read more that year than I think I ever have since,cleaning out

the history and sociology sections of the library not to mention the adult

fiction. " 1984 " and " Animal Farm " really struck a chord that year,as you can

imagine...

>

> ...all I can say is OMG! Yes, that therapist was totally corrupt and

messed up herself. The whole thing is so creepy, like one of those shows where

the men in the white coats come after the sane person. Please...there was

nothing not weird about the whole thing and especially your nada's suggestion at

the end. It is all apalling.

> sorry you had to endure all that at such a young age.

> ~patricia

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Hhhmm,Ashana,of all the things I've thought about this therapist,that's the one

thing I didn't think of,that she was simply nuts.Very deep and very profound

issues...yes,you must be right about that...

>

> ,

>

> I think the therapist was nuts.  I think the issue was far more than

incompetence or being corrupt.   I don't know what the therapist's problem was,

but it was very deep and very profound.

>

> Best,

> Ashana

>

>

> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it NOW!

http://downloads.yahoo.com/in/internetexplorer/

>

>

[Guest guest]

No kidding!!! it's always irked me that our society puts greater

demands/requirements on driving a vehicle than raising a kid.

On a more serious note, I am increasingly frustrated at how [relatively] little

awareness there is in the mainstream about BPD. if BPD does impact approx 5% of

the adult population in the US, that puts it way up there against other much

more publicized and funded illnesses. I'm on the path to doing something...just

not sure what yet. No kid should have to live with a bpd parent--that should be

a basic human right. Thankfully, we are animals capable of healing and

recovery, but still....if I could prevent one child from being soul-crushed the

way I was, well, there are no words.

-lisa

> > >

> > > My nada was really into drawing diagrams...of what sex was when I was

> > very young and of other creepy things. My family " blossoms " early so at

> > 10 I was needing to walk down the grown up lady isle. Trying not to

> > gross out you guys on here, but my nada told me that you don't take the

> > cardboard applicator out. I tried it once, I didn't even bother to read

> > the box why would I, I had just had the process explained to me in GORY

> > DETAIL. When she knew I wasn't using them she was so pleased and picked

> > up her pen and paper to show me that if something 3/4 inches hurt, then

> > a man, who was half a paper wide would hurt and thus concluded our

> > diagramed lesson on why I should never, ever have sex ever.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you,,for your support and very kind words.I think you're right,that

therapist had some kind of PD herself.It's scary that people like this can hang

out their shingle and set up a practice.Because she was a woman I felt more hurt

by her.

The whole " family therapy " thing was about nada proving to herself that she

was perfectly fine and that the psychiatrist had been wrong.That she found

another woman to oblige her still turns my stomach.It hurts more,I guess,to be

betrayed and hurt by your " own kind " but all this feedback has helped me to see

that the therapist was " my own kind " by gender appearance only and that more

profoundly,she wasn't my kind,so I can let that aspect of the hurt go.

> >

> > My nada engaged in so much sexual inappropriateness with me I could write a

VERY long post on this subject...suffice it to say that even at the age of six I

knew everything,pretty much,about her sex life with fada and one of her deranged

modus operandi was to use me as a sort of " sex proxy " ,setting me up to be abused

by predators when she she knew it was happening and could voyeuristically enjoy

knowing about my exploitation/humiliation/degradation--I mean,from the age of

five onwards--something my therapist is helping me to accept since there is no

way nada DIDN'T know it was occurring.I'm at the point now of " no more making

excuses for nada " or denying to myself that she knew and not only did nothing

but enabled the abuse--but her sick reasons for doing so are beyond the scope of

this thread.

> >

> > But one weird thing (of so many weird things!) that happened when I

was twelve...I don't want to hijack Doug's thread but I wonder what you guys

make of this:

> >

> > Trying to be brief...when I was twelve I was sent to a psychiatrist

by my parents who decided after several sessions with me that *I* wasn't the one

who needed a psychiatrist--he was an older man who must have seen it all in his

career--and he suggested instead that he see both of my parents individually and

my brother too and then he said that he'd be able to make a recommendation for

what we might need " as a family " .He seemed to have accurately assessed *my* so

called problem as a family problem.Of course nada nad fada were outraged by his

suggestion that he see them too---they told him basically that he must be

nuts--and left his office in a huff.I was the crazy one,not them,how dare he! I

never saw him again,someone who might have been able to help me.

> >

> > But a couple of weeks after this nada announced that we were all

going to " family therapy " with a therapist she had chosen herself.

> >

> > It was a farce from the beginning.The whole " family therapy " was all

about how *I* was wrecking the family with my " anger " .From the get go,this

" therapist " did nada's bidding in blaming me for everything.I had individual

sessions with this therapist in addition to our group " family therapy " which was

an hour of all of them telling me how horrible I was.

> >

> > I admit that I wasn't too inclined to participate but that was

because I saw what nada was up to and that the therapist had fallen for nada's

tricks and I had no idea how to make her understand this.I was also being

molested by my teacher at the time,which nada knew about.Her response to my

complaints had been to tell me to kill myself.I didn't tell the therapist this

because I didn't think she would believe me since from the beginning she stated

nada's case to me as if nada was the victim and I was the villain.I'll also note

that I wasn't displaying anger in her office but was trying to no avail to get

the therapist on my side by being calm and reasonable,yet she'd come at me in

our individual sessions repeatedly with accusations nada was making against me

of how " angry " I acted at home.Stuff that either had never happened at all or

were gross exaggerations,but my denials only seemed to reinforce my " guilt " as

far as the therapist was concerned and the couple of times I refused to even

defend myself because I had had it,she'd say, " There,now I can see how angry you

are,so now you're refusing to even talk to me... "

> >

> > One day I decided to tell her about the teacher,just going for broke at

that point.I said, " The main thing that is getting to me is that I'm having a

problem with my teacher.He's a pervert and he's been bothering me all year... "

> >

> > I waited to see what she would say.That was a mistake.Not that

forcefully pressing my case would have helped much.

> >

> > After a pause she said,and I quote, " Look.Until you're ready to tell me

the real reason why you're so angry at home,we don't have much to talk

about.Your parents are very upset,so upset that they've decided you need family

therapy,but that fact seems to leave you stone cold. "

> >

> > Anyway.On to the weird thing.This weird thing is how our " family

therapy " ended.We had been in " therapy " for about two months when nada said

during one of our group sessions, " I think I've thought of something that will

help us. "

> >

> > We all wanted to know what that might be.

> >

> > Nada looked over at me with that innocent-sweet expression they use

and asked me, " If I went back to sleeping with your father,would that help you? "

> >

> > At the time,nada and fada didn't share a bed.She slept near my

brother's room so she would hear if he had an asthma attack since I had failed

in overnight nurse duty one night when he had one and had to be rushed to the

hospital.I couldn't be trusted to not sleep through one of his asthma

attacks.But any time she intended to visit fada in his room for sex,she would

let me know (explicitly) so I'd stay awake until they were " done " .

> >

> > When nada said that I naively thought that at last,finally,now the

therapist would effing figure it out.I mean,what a nutso thing to suggest.Like I

really gave a goddamn and like her sleeping with my father had anything to do

with me.Surely,now,the therapist would see that NADA was the problem,not

me.Because obviously,no,that wouldn't help *me*--the only person that would

" help " would be nada.

> >

> > I couldn't believe it when the therapist looked over at me and asked

in all seriousness, " Yes,,would that help you? Would that make you feel

more secure? "

> >

> > I wanted to scream at her " WHY are you so dense! What is wrong with

YOU! "

> >

> > But even more than that I just wanted the farce to be over.I had

had enough of being mistreated by the therapist along with my parents and my

teacher.I said calmly,trying to reign in my sarcasm, " Oh,yes,that would solve

everything. "

> >

> > Nada was thrilled.She even chortled, " That's been the solution all

along... "

> >

> > And so ended our " family therapy " ,with nada going back to sleeping

with fada so *I* wouldn't be so " angry " .

> >

> > Now tell me...am I wrong to think of this episode as not only weird

but the therapist being really incompetent? She never learned what was really

happening or what had really happened before that.She was too busy colluding

with nada in making me into the villain.And really,I know that as KOs we have a

bullshit detector for this stuff but wouldn't any reasonably sane person think

it was pretty damned weird for a grown woman to suggest that her twelve year old

daughter would feel so much better knowing her mother was sleeping with her

father???? Wouldn't most people pick up on how weird nada's suggestion was?

Wouldn't that raise a red flag?

> >

> > And yet that therapist sent us on our way with that as the solution

to our family problem.What do you guys think? I'd appreciate your thoughts.My

current therapist thinks that this " family therapist " was corrupt and took

nada's money and basically didn't care beyond that: " Your mother payed her and

she danced to the tune of the person who was paying her " ....

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dang--really?! Weird how similar the BPD behaviors are. And even though your

question was probably 99% rhetorical, my analytical mind has to work on it:

what *is* up with that?!

two things come to my mind: (1) clearly nada had a completely distorted view of

her own sexuality--probably (a) afraid of it, mixed with ( using it as power

to get what she wanted and © making her feel wanted/loved--probably this is

the strongest dynamic. And (2) at the time was there was a twisted sense of

jealousy and control involved--she wasn't going to let us become women and

compete with her--or she was going to change the playing field by giving us

embarrassing/silly supplies. I can't quite articulate it, but I sensed it quite

strongly at the time.

Thanks for sharing that, !!

-

> > >

> > > My nada was really into drawing diagrams...of what sex was when I was very

young and of other creepy things. My family " blossoms " early so at 10 I was

needing to walk down the grown up lady isle. Trying not to gross out you guys

on here, but my nada told me that you don't take the cardboard applicator out.

I tried it once, I didn't even bother to read the box why would I, I had just

had the process explained to me in GORY DETAIL. When she knew I wasn't using

them she was so pleased and picked up her pen and paper to show me that if

something 3/4 inches hurt, then a man, who was half a paper wide would hurt and

thus concluded our diagramed lesson on why I should never, ever have sex ever.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree; I've thought for a long time that people should have to pass

some kind of competency test to be granted the right to have a child. It seems

to be a step that is now necessary, to me.

-Annie

> > > >

> > > > My nada was really into drawing diagrams...of what sex was when I was

> > > very young and of other creepy things. My family " blossoms " early so at

> > > 10 I was needing to walk down the grown up lady isle. Trying not to

> > > gross out you guys on here, but my nada told me that you don't take the

> > > cardboard applicator out. I tried it once, I didn't even bother to read

> > > the box why would I, I had just had the process explained to me in GORY

> > > DETAIL. When she knew I wasn't using them she was so pleased and picked

> > > up her pen and paper to show me that if something 3/4 inches hurt, then

> > > a man, who was half a paper wide would hurt and thus concluded our

> > > diagramed lesson on why I should never, ever have sex ever.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

totally LOL at this--I'm pretty sure my belt was a hand-me-down too. " For me?

You shouldn't have. No really...you shouldn't have. " Beyond pyuck. It feels

good to laugh about something so utterly absurd.

-lisa

> > > >

> > > > My nada was really into drawing diagrams...of what sex was when I was

very young and of other creepy things. My family " blossoms " early so at 10 I

was needing to walk down the grown up lady isle. Trying not to gross out you

guys on here, but my nada told me that you don't take the cardboard applicator

out. I tried it once, I didn't even bother to read the box why would I, I had

just had the process explained to me in GORY DETAIL. When she knew I wasn't

using them she was so pleased and picked up her pen and paper to show me that if

something 3/4 inches hurt, then a man, who was half a paper wide would hurt and

thus concluded our diagramed lesson on why I should never, ever have sex ever.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Katrina--thank you--you've nailed what I was trying to articulate. Well-said!

-

> >,my nada made me wear one of those sanitary belt

> >contraptions around 1980,too.And,yes,she used tampons herself!

> >Some time back there was another thread on this list on this

> >general topic and a few people posted that their nada had done

> >the same thing,having them use sanitary belts that were by then

> >obsolete.What's up with that and nadas??!

> >

> >

>

> --

> Katrina

>

[Guest guest]

Deanna,I agree.Nada actually started out seeing the therapist herself a few

times before we all went in,so who knows how she'd set up the situation with the

therapist.I'm sure she told her many lies in the way that BPs either believe or

want to believe their own lies--nada was much more convincing than I was with

her protestations of being a victim.I was worn out from all the stuff I'd been

through that year and besides,an ironic thing about people who happen to be

telling the truth is that they tend to say it calmly and matter of factly--yet

it's the one ones who use dramatics and tears as they lie who are believed and

the calm matter of fact truth teller is sometimes perceived as a cold blooded

liar,which I think is part of what happened here.

Thanks for your feedback,it's helps so much to have these suspicions

seconded by someone who knows what the deal is with these types of PDs/people.

>

> , I wonder if your nada said something to the therapist in private

about the sleeping situation. Since I'm not naturally devious like a nada, it

is hard for me to guess just what. Maybe something to the tune of " I don't

sleep with my husband because it makes jealous " or something equally

dishonest or silly. Still, the therapist should have been able to see through

all of this. It's possible that your nada told her many, many lies when you

were not around.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,that is sobering to think that your nada has a master's in child

psychology--and yes thank goodness that she couldn't really stick with it...god

it sucks to have a nada...I wish my own hadn't been a school teacher--I think

she did hurt some of her students.

It seems that it would be essential for any therapist of any speciality to

know all about personality disorders.How can you even be effective if you don't

know what you're dealing with??? Unless of course you have your own reasons not

to want to know...

>

> (((())))) I'm so sorry you had to endure that horrifying

incompetence! Yes, this therapist definitely had a BIG problem. There are

definitely many therapists who DO go into the mental health profession to figure

out their own issues. My nada is one of them! She has a masters degree in

child psychology. Thank goodness she only worked as a school psychologist for a

few years when I was little (she could never really stick to one job for very

long anyway). I can only imagine the harm she might have inflicted on some

poor, unsuspecting child...

>

> You would think that therapists of all people, would be clued-into PDs! Its

amazing how many are completely snowed-over and manipulated by BPDs. Even good

ones!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you,Connie.I think so,too--that therapist was pretty hostile to me from

the beginning,not gentle as one would be with a " child " .One of her issues seems

to be a readiness to blame the child---nada didn't view me as a child at that

point but believed that I was " an adult " at twelve,something she seems to have

managed to convince the therapist of,too.I wasn't very childlike by that

point,having had many adult experiences,which didn't help me...

>

> , I read you post several times and also believe the therapist was

out of line.

>

> The thought occurs to me that perhaps this was a " nada plant " ; that the person

was someone nada manipulated into " counselling the famiy " with the goal in mind

that " everything is this child's fault "

>

> Just an idea to consider

>

> May we all heal

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

~you sound like you were really brave! I had to be pushed long and

hard to show any kind of standing up like this. Even now. I know you call it

bluffing, but it wasn't. You were calling them on their bad behavior with a

smartness they could not defend against. Good for you. IF you think about it,

many victories in life are made this way; and there is nothing wrong with

that....not hollow at all.

~patricia

Re: Nada and sexual inappropriateness

,you got that right: it was like an episode from the Twilight Zone

with the men in white coats coming after me and leaving the lunatics at

liberty...that whole year was liking finding myself in the docket of the

kangaroo court,it was one hell of a year.I had tried several times

previously--and on my own--to get the principal of the school to do something

about the teacher.He yelled at me,red faced and furious,not to ever say such

horrible things about my teacher even again,trying to intimidate me into

shutting up.The teacher knew he had an ally in the principal and on days when I

really fought back against the abuse,he sent me down to his office to be

punished.By the Spring I had to resort to bluffing to the principal by

threatening to " call the media " and the school board about the teacher if he

punished me one more time.We had an incident one day when he wouldn't stop

shouting at me so I reached for the telephone like I was really going to call

(in truth I didn't think anyone would believe me).He snatched the phone away and

I told him that was fine,I had a telephone at home and if he brought me into his

office one more time,I would make those calls and did he understand that? He

grumbled, " This is ridiculous " --I told him, " No,you are ridiculous " and walked

out.I then told the teacher that he was also on notice and if he involved the

principal one more time I would have him exposed on tv.I was never sent to the

principal's office again and the one time he had to come to our classroom

because I had intentionally caused an uproar to make the teacher look like an

ass (by the end of the school year and this was after the family therapy I just

wanted to make that bastard pay and I was no longer afraid of being

punished)--anyway when the principal came up to our class I said to him when he

walked in, " I'm going to take off from school tomorrow and go in person to the

superintendant's office if you say ONE FUCKING WORD to me " and he turned around

and walked out.

I wish now that I had done just that,but it seemed like bluffing was

all I had.I knew that it would destroy me,too,if I really did try again to get

help and got rejected again.So I settled for a hollow victory.

I also read more that year than I think I ever have since,cleaning out

the history and sociology sections of the library not to mention the adult

fiction. " 1984 " and " Animal Farm " really struck a chord that year,as you can

imagine...

>

> ...all I can say is OMG! Yes, that therapist was totally corrupt

and messed up herself. The whole thing is so creepy, like one of those shows

where the men in the white coats come after the sane person. Please...there was

nothing not weird about the whole thing and especially your nada's suggestion at

the end. It is all apalling.

> sorry you had to endure all that at such a young age.

> ~patricia

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @... SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

>

> To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

>

> From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author SWOE

and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

Annie,thank you so much for your understanding and supportive post.What you

wrote is so kind and sweet.

It's actually pretty amazing what one person can do for someone who is

trapped in such a hopeless situation as I was.Many times--and every

time I think of that year and these incidents--I have blessed that psychiatrist

for trying to help,for standing up for me.He has been blessed by me many

times.While I was going through that emotional torture in the " family therapy " I

had his words to give me strength; I had the fact that he existed and knowing

that decent people like him exist to give me strength--I had some example of

sanity to hold on to.

Because while the " family " therapist was colluding with my parents,I

could remember that the psychiatrist had been annoyed with them.I left that part

out for the sake of brevity but the day they stormed out of his office,he had

said to them with some real pique in his voice when they got angry at his

suggestion that he see them too, " I see young people in my practice who have very

tragic,very serious illnesses and this young lady here just isn't one of

them.There is nothing seriously wrong with this young lady,aside from a mild

depression I'd like to know the causes of and that she happens to be

exceptionally bright... "

He was annoyed on my behalf--he referred to me respectfully as a young

lady and he seemed to think that it was nada and fada who WANTED me to be " sick "

and he was disgusted with them because he knew what real sickness was and how

wrong for a parent to somehow wish something so tragic on their own child.

And one more thing: as I was following them out of his office that

day,he said, " I'm sorry, " .He was the *only* adult who ever said that to

me.He said it like he cared.That made me cry later,but good tears.

I kept reminding myself of what he had said.I felt so comforted by

it,that somebody had cared.I had that to rely on afterward.It might not even

have seemed like much to him or that he'd been able to do much for me,but he

helped me enormously by being good and honest and decent.

In that morass of dysfunction,there was that one shining point of

light.

>

> ,

> You were wronged and abused on so many levels, by so many people, that it

astounds me that you even survived at all. You must have a core of steel to be

as undamaged as you are; not that you were not profoundly damaged, but its

amazing that you weren't broken by your experiences. It just staggers me how

many adults had the opportunity to help you and were either prevented from doing

so, or decided to exploit you their own self.

> Wow.

> Kudos to you. Many kudos.

> -Annie

>

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Disa,my god,that was such a cold and insensitive thing for that therapist to

say.And heartless,too,while you and your sister would sit there and cry? These

types really,really should not be allowed to call themselves " therapists " .You

were kids for heaven's sake!!

I'm so sorry that happened to you.

>

> ,

>

> I can't imagine how maddening that must have been. I once had a family

councelor who took nada's side everytime, so my sister and I stopped talking

altogether - we'd sit and cry instead. The therapist said " Oh, yes, I can see

how you have problems with them, they just sit there like bumps on a log. "

>

> I'm pretty sure there were late night phone calls to the therapist's office by

nada like Deanna suggested yours might have also.

>

> Between that woman and one other completely useless therapist I am ruined on

therapy. If they don't have a PhD, I won't waste my time.

>

> I am so sorry you had to endure that, especially when she was in a position to

actually help you. I wonder how your nada found her to begin with.

>

[Guest guest]

,I had to be pushed into fighting back.It took me months that year

before I started to.At first I was in shock,then I was hurt and upset and

begging for mercy from all these people who would show me none.I had to make the

decision not to care anymore about the consequences of fighting back since

caring had alllowed the abuse to continue and it was not going to stop unless I

did something on my own.I had been,before that year,a straight A plus student

and " teacher's pet " ,not a behavior problem in any way shape or form...and yet

that seemed to mean nothing to the principal for example.

I really like your take on my " victory " --that is so very insightful...and

very helpful,thank you!!!

I need to take my hound for her walk right now but I'm going to reflect on

what you said,really interesting perspective...in many ways I'm still beating

myself up over every single thing I did that year whether it was when I was

hunkering down or when I was fighting back...thank you again for giving me

another,more positive angle on this.

> >

> > ...all I can say is OMG! Yes, that therapist was totally corrupt

and messed up herself. The whole thing is so creepy, like one of those shows

where the men in the white coats come after the sane person. Please...there was

nothing not weird about the whole thing and especially your nada's suggestion at

the end. It is all apalling.

> > sorry you had to endure all that at such a young age.

> > ~patricia

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > Problems? Ask our friendly List Manager for help at @ SEND HER

ANY POSTS THAT CONCERN YOU; DO NOT Respond ON THE GROUP.

> >

> > To order the KO bible " Stop Walking on Eggshells, " call 888-35-SHELL

() for your copy. We also refer to " Understanding the Borderline

Mother " (Lawson) and " Surviving the Borderline Parent, " (Roth) which you can

find at any bookstore. Welcome to the WTO community!

> >

> > From Randi Kreger, Owner BPDCentral, WTO Online Community and author

SWOE and the SWOE Workbook.

[Guest guest]

oh, same here !! I remember my sister being called dirty because she was

exploring herself...( we were little kids, 6 & 8 years) she never taught

us anything about sex other than it was dirty and only for making

babies..she never told me anything about the monthly curse..but once it

happened, boy, she was right there nosing around...tampons and such were

NOT allowed.. we had to use those awful pads with the belt that always wore

a raw patch on my backside..

Jackie

My nada was also extremely obsessed with any hints of sensuality or sexual

curiosity in me. I would be brutally punished if caught exploring with

another child or by myself. She pretty much traumatized me about all things

sexual, pretty severely.

Its just so wrong for a mother to turn her child into an asexual zombie

robot because the mother herself has sexual hangups.

-Annie

[Guest guest]

The gentlemen will please skip to another post... Ahem. At the risk of going

into WTMI (Waaaay too much info) mode here - I think it may be possible that

this is one of those cultural things, rather than craziness on the part of our

mothers (the whole pad vs. tampon thing). At the time (I'm talking mid-60's), I

think our mothers had been raised to believe that young ladies would be " ruined "

(oh, horrors!) by tampon use. They were coming from an era when some of this

" technology " was pretty new, and their information was not exactly complete -

" Our Bodies, Ourselves " had not been published yet. Birth control for single

women was still illegal in some states. The pill was not widely available.

There were a LOT of changes after our moms grew up.

The other stuff our mothers did - whether it be extreme prudishness or insane

nymphomania - may have been another facet of their craziness, but the repressive

attitude about these products was widespread in Middle America, I think.

I will say that once I figured this stuff out, I decided that my mom was either

hopelessly uninformed or lying, and never asked her another sex- or

biology-related question again. I just did my own research on the sly (in the

library, furtively reading the human anatomy books).

Thank God for the 60's and 70's.

>

> oh, same here !! I remember my sister being called dirty because she was

> exploring herself...( we were little kids, 6 & 8 years) she never taught

> us anything about sex other than it was dirty and only for making

> babies..she never told me anything about the monthly curse..but once it

> happened, boy, she was right there nosing around...tampons and such were

> NOT allowed.. we had to use those awful pads with the belt that always wore

> a raw patch on my backside..

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

>

> My nada was also extremely obsessed with any hints of sensuality or sexual

> curiosity in me. I would be brutally punished if caught exploring with

> another child or by myself. She pretty much traumatized me about all things

> sexual, pretty severely.

> Its just so wrong for a mother to turn her child into an asexual zombie

> robot because the mother herself has sexual hangups.

> -Annie

>

[Guest guest]

I can understand nadas objecting to tampons for those reasons,

but that doesn't explain insisting that their daughters use

those nasty old belt and pad contraptions when more modern types

of pads had been available for years by the 80s. No one thought

that stick-on pads were dangerous in any way.

I can't remember ever asking my nada questions about such

things. We learned about that stuff in health class in school

starting in 4th or 5th grade and I trusted what I learned there

far more than anything my nada might have said.

At 09:33 AM 02/03/2010 shirleyspawn wrote:

>The gentlemen will please skip to another post... Ahem. At the

>risk of going into WTMI (Waaaay too much info) mode here - I

>think it may be possible that this is one of those cultural

>things, rather than craziness on the part of our mothers (the

>whole pad vs. tampon thing). At the time (I'm talking

>mid-60's), I think our mothers had been raised to believe that

>young ladies would be " ruined " (oh, horrors!) by tampon

>use. They were coming from an era when some of this

> " technology " was pretty new, and their information was not

>exactly complete - " Our Bodies, Ourselves " had not been

>published yet. Birth control for single women was still illegal

>in some states. The pill was not widely available. There were

>a LOT of changes after our moms grew up.

>

>The other stuff our mothers did - whether it be extreme

>prudishness or insane nymphomania - may have been another facet

>of their craziness, but the repressive attitude about these

>products was widespread in Middle America, I think.

>

>I will say that once I figured this stuff out, I decided that

>my mom was either hopelessly uninformed or lying, and never

>asked her another sex- or biology-related question again. I

>just did my own research on the sly (in the library, furtively

>reading the human anatomy books).

>

>Thank God for the 60's and 70's.

>

>

--

Katrina

[Guest guest]

way back when, we didnt have a " health class " in school ...

Jackie

I can understand nadas objecting to tampons for those reasons,

but that doesn't explain insisting that their daughters use

those nasty old belt and pad contraptions when more modern types

of pads had been available for years by the 80s. No one thought

that stick-on pads were dangerous in any way.

I can't remember ever asking my nada questions about such

things. We learned about that stuff in health class in school

starting in 4th or 5th grade and I trusted what I learned there

far more than anything my nada might have said.

[Guest guest]

you are probably right !!

Jackie

The gentlemen will please skip to another post... Ahem. At the risk of

going into WTMI (Waaaay too much info) mode here - I think it may be

possible that this is one of those cultural things, rather than craziness on

the part of our mothers (the whole pad vs. tampon thing). At the time (I'm

talking mid-60's), I think our mothers had been raised to believe that young

ladies would be " ruined " (oh, horrors!) by tampon use. They were coming

from an era when some of this " technology " was pretty new, and their

information was not exactly complete - " Our Bodies, Ourselves " had not been

published yet. Birth control for single women was still illegal in some

states. The pill was not widely available. There were a LOT of changes

after our moms grew up.

The other stuff our mothers did - whether it be extreme prudishness or

insane nymphomania - may have been another facet of their craziness, but the

repressive attitude about these products was widespread in Middle America, I

think.

I will say that once I figured this stuff out, I decided that my mom was

either hopelessly uninformed or lying, and never asked her another sex- or

biology-related question again. I just did my own research on the sly (in

the library, furtively reading the human anatomy books).

Thank God for the 60's and 70's.

[Guest guest]

My nada made me do this, too, for my first couple of months but I think she had

trouble finding them so it was just too much of a bother. It was like a garter

belt but around the waist and I can't imagine entertaining the idea of SWIMMING

with that! How ridiculous.

>

> ,my nada made me wear one of those sanitary belt contraptions around

1980,too.And,yes,she used tampons herself! Some time back there was another

thread on this list on this general topic and a few people posted that their

nada had done the same thing,having them use sanitary belts that were by then

obsolete.What's up with that and nadas??!

>

[Guest guest]

I grew up in a small town in the mid-west, and in 5th grade in the early 60's

all us girl students had to watch " the film about becoming a woman. " Apparently

the boys were forbidden to watch it with us, or they had their own separate film

to watch. But our film was all about how our bodies were changing, how to care

for ourselves during our period, etc. There wasn't a health class, per se,

until high school but we did watch " the film " . I'm pretty sure we had to get a

permission slip from our parents to do so; maybe your nada didn't want you to

see it?

-Annie

>

> way back when, we didnt have a " health class " in school ...

>

> Jackie

>

>

>

> I can understand nadas objecting to tampons for those reasons,

> but that doesn't explain insisting that their daughters use

> those nasty old belt and pad contraptions when more modern types

> of pads had been available for years by the 80s. No one thought

> that stick-on pads were dangerous in any way.

>

> I can't remember ever asking my nada questions about such

> things. We learned about that stuff in health class in school

> starting in 4th or 5th grade and I trusted what I learned there

> far more than anything my nada might have said.

>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, we had The Film too, in junior high - I think it was in PE class, which

was already gender-segregated. I recall it being singularly un-helpful, very

vague - mainly impressing upon us that we had to take showers every day and keep

the oil off our faces - and stay the heck away from boys.

Anecdote - I was so naive about all this stuff - and in junior high we had to

take Home Ec, and learn to run sewing machines well enough to make a simple,

rectangular apron and then a blouse with sleeves and darts. Those curved sleeve

lines were impossible - my blouse was full of little holes where I'd had to rip

the sleeve seams out, and it still looked like it was made for Igor the

Hunchback. Anyway - at the same time, we were reading " The Scarlet Letter " in

English. I missed the part about Hester Prynne having to wear an " A " for

adultery (and wasn't too sure what that was, anyway) - so, logically, I thought

that she CHOSE the " A " to embroider on the front of her dress because it had

easier, straight lines. (It didn't occur to me that an " H " would have been just

as easy, and in addition would have looked like a cool monogram for ol' Hester.)

Talk about misinformed!!

By contrast, my kid had to take an entire semester of " health " which included a

large dose of anatomy - for both genders - mixed in there with the drug and

alcohol awareness info.

> >

> > way back when, we didnt have a " health class " in school ...

> >

> > Jackie

> >

> >

> >

> > I can understand nadas objecting to tampons for those reasons,

> > but that doesn't explain insisting that their daughters use

> > those nasty old belt and pad contraptions when more modern types

> > of pads had been available for years by the 80s. No one thought

> > that stick-on pads were dangerous in any way.

> >

> > I can't remember ever asking my nada questions about such

> > things. We learned about that stuff in health class in school

> > starting in 4th or 5th grade and I trusted what I learned there

> > far more than anything my nada might have said.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

that very well could be !! when I was in the 5th grade we were in KY. I

asked my sister ( she's 2 1/2 years older) if she ever was told in

school/saw a film/had health class...she said no, it took her totally by

surprise ( then why didnt she warn me what was going to happen ??)

Jackie

I grew up in a small town in the mid-west, and in 5th grade in the early

60's all us girl students had to watch " the film about becoming a woman. "

Apparently the boys were forbidden to watch it with us, or they had their

own separate film to watch. But our film was all about how our bodies were

changing, how to care for ourselves during our period, etc. There wasn't a

health class, per se, until high school but we did watch " the film " . I'm

pretty sure we had to get a permission slip from our parents to do so; maybe

your nada didn't want you to see it?

-Annie

[Guest guest]

Wow, this topic has started an avalanche of posts. My heart is with all of you

who've suffered in this way. My experience in this area is mercifully mild. When

my nada was experiencing marital difficulties with my stepfather, she confided

to me that she went to bars to meet men, one of whom she hoped would be a good

substitute for my s.f. (who she'd pretty much used up and drained of life, so

she needed a new victim). She invited me to go with her to meet men (!!!). I WAS

an adult at the time, but I still felt pretty queasy at her suggestion,

especially since I did like my stepfather. During her younger years, nada picked

up some real winners as boyfriends. I remember some porn mags " accidentally "

left in the bedroom I shared with my younger sister. That was really how I

learned about sex, when I was ten. Pretty sad, huh? I don't remember any actual

molestation, but like many I DO believe that repressed memory syndrome is real,

if overreported. If I have any repressed memories of abuse, I really don't want

to remember them.