Re: Nada and sexual inappropriateness

January 31, 2010

My mom has no sexual boundaries- I had to hear about her sex life my whole life.

I swear she gets more graphic the older I get. The last time she was at my house

she asked me if I had a sex toy she could borrow (!!!!!!) as her husband is in

cancer treatment and having some side effects that leave them I guess with no

sex life. I'm not asking. I don't want to know. I have to literally put my hand

up and almost yell NOSTOP TALKING RIGHT NOW STOP STOP STOP STOP. I always

chalked it up to her not having any friends, but even when she did, she'd still

'confide' in me about her sex life, or ask me questions about mine!

So many things I didn't know were an issue until I started reading this list. I

still don't know if she has BPD, is there a spectrum? Can you have it a little,

or have it a lot? I don't know, I hear a lot of things that make me think YES

absolutely and then others that make me doubt it. Still figuring it out.

a in WA

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Sun, January 31, 2010 11:08:31 PM

Subject: Nada and sexual inappropriateness

Â

This topic was brought up in another thread, and got an immediate, oh

yea, me too, ( as we do so often) hit. So I thought it would be worth

pursuing.

My first indication nada had no sense of bounderies about sexual matters

was when I was ten and asked innocently, regarding an electron

microscope picture of a fertilized ovum, so where does the sperm come

from. To my horror, I got a very detailed explaination of human

sexuality, on my lunch hour, and then had to go back to a 5th grade

classroom. I was mortified.

After my parents divorced, nada started with a series of bf s, some ok

guys, some drunks, some assholes. It didnt really matter, except when

she would drag me , at 15 or 16, to spend the night on the couch of a

total stranger s house while she shared the bed with him. Then of

course, neither would want to get up to drive me to school next morning.

2 of the " men " she had relationships with during my junior and senior

years of HS were 19 and 20, respectively, and I , of course, was 15 and

16. One of them, a real dirtbag, was brought to us by a friend, just

asking if he could spend the night for a few nights because his father

had kicked him out and he was sick. In retrospect, his father was wise,

and she should have let him die of pneumonia. She first adopted him (

another subject, how many had nada " adopt " kids or grandkids like they

were the golden child while neglecting the real ones?), and expected me

to treat him like a brother, and she gave him money, and let him drive

the car, and this went of for months.. But it got wierd after a while,

and she d tell me how he was like the big brother i never had, then sit

on the couch in the dark whispering and holding hands and who knows what

else. Fortunately for my therapy bill, I didnt see " what else. " This

one only left when me and a car full of friends dragged him in a car and

let him no that he would either leave within 3 days, or we would find

him again and beat him senseless. She would NEVER have made him leave.

After that, she got into her real hobby, PRISONERS! She started writing

to a guy in prison for armed robbery, then dragged me to a family

visitation day, where she took him a picnic, and then was hanging all

over him, kissing and rubbing like teenagers, and crying as if he were

the love of her life when we left.

She wrote to them for most of her life, and was romantically involved

with at least 3 that I know of, including 2 to whom she was " engaged " ,

until thier parole was turned down, and it became apparent what the game

was. She would send them money, go and visit, visit their families and

get close as if she were the wife. In one case , she had stopped writing

to one, moved 2 times since, to a different town , and 2 years had

passed, and he showed up on her doorstep one evening. That scared her.

But not enough to stop.

She remarried while I was in the Navy, and first brought me to a dance

at Parents without Partners, where she met this sleazeball, to meet him.

Both of them had kids who were not with them, in her case I was grown,

but just used it as a social network. It was for parents who were

raising kids alone. At the time, I was 20, he was 29, she was 39. She

wanted my permission or approval as if I were the adult and she the

child, which, of course she always tried to do. I had enough sense to

say it s your decision, you are a grown woman, do NOT put me in the

place of saying no and having you blame me for being alone, or saying

yes and having you blame me when the marriage fails. ( It did, 7 years

later.)

One of her hot buttons to push with me, to push me into a rage, after

which she would say, dramatically, Oh I m just so scared of my sons

temper. was to tell me inappropriate details about her gynocological

problems, and or about her sexual relationships with my dad, or about

his sexual preferences and philandering. Only after years, when I set a

boundery that if you bring any of that up, the conversation ends at

once, I ll hang up, or walk away, did she finally stop. And then only

after I enforced that boundery several times..

I found out from high school friends years later, when we were grown

men, that she would have totally inappropriate converstions with them,

telling them things they had no desire to know, until they finally chose

not to ever come around her.

And oddly, she would regularly condemn her sister, who had a child

unmarried and raised her as a single mom, for " not keeping her skirts

clean " Some how my Aunt was a slut for getting pregnant, but all of

nadas activities were covered under the topic of ( ready for this?)

well, you know a woman has needs, just like a man.

And I would be screaming MOM, not only do I not want to KNOW, I dont

want you to justify it to me!

Why can t you do like all me and all the teenagers do, sneak around and

do it in and Oldsmobile and lie about it.

So, anyone find anything inappropriate in my nadas sexual choices?

And, anyone else experience similar inappropriateness? This seems to be

a fairly common thread in BP s and Bi Polars. And one more wound for us

KO.. s

Doug

January 31, 2010

that is horrible, but i remember things like when i would bring bf's home when i

was 15 she would get them drunk and stoned and ask me how big they were. my bf's

thought she was cool cause they would be getting free pot and booze. i was

totally embarrased. when i first has sex she made fun or me me and asked once

again, how big he was. i was 15, if that were my daughter id be very upset. i

think the worst of it is, her and my brother, he is a lot like her, lots of her

bpd traits and a huge drinking problem, he tells her how great her " tits " look

and smacks her on the ass in front of people and she just laughs. very

disturbing and very embarrasing. they did stuff at my wedding and it went around

my job and i had to beg people to not say anything and i just wanted to die. its

a terrible thing and so many people out there dont understand. i feel for you

and i understand, beyond the embarrasement and anger im just really sad over it.

it makes me ill and just really sad, like i want to sit in a room alone and

shake my head and think about it and try to find a way to understand it but i

just cant. we have to believe we are better people for seeing this evil, or

whats the point??

take care of yourself

missy

---- doug883@... wrote:

>

> This topic was brought up in another thread, and got an immediate, oh

> yea, me too, ( as we do so often) hit. So I thought it would be worth

> pursuing.

>

> My first indication nada had no sense of bounderies about sexual matters

> was when I was ten and asked innocently, regarding an electron

> microscope picture of a fertilized ovum, so where does the sperm come

> from. To my horror, I got a very detailed explaination of human

> sexuality, on my lunch hour, and then had to go back to a 5th grade

> classroom. I was mortified.

>

> After my parents divorced, nada started with a series of bf s, some ok

> guys, some drunks, some assholes. It didnt really matter, except when

> she would drag me , at 15 or 16, to spend the night on the couch of a

> total stranger s house while she shared the bed with him. Then of

> course, neither would want to get up to drive me to school next morning.

>

> 2 of the " men " she had relationships with during my junior and senior

> years of HS were 19 and 20, respectively, and I , of course, was 15 and

> 16. One of them, a real dirtbag, was brought to us by a friend, just

> asking if he could spend the night for a few nights because his father

> had kicked him out and he was sick. In retrospect, his father was wise,

> and she should have let him die of pneumonia. She first adopted him (

> another subject, how many had nada " adopt " kids or grandkids like they

> were the golden child while neglecting the real ones?), and expected me

> to treat him like a brother, and she gave him money, and let him drive

> the car, and this went of for months. But it got wierd after a while,

> and she d tell me how he was like the big brother i never had, then sit

> on the couch in the dark whispering and holding hands and who knows what

> else. Fortunately for my therapy bill, I didnt see " what else. " This

> one only left when me and a car full of friends dragged him in a car and

> let him no that he would either leave within 3 days, or we would find

> him again and beat him senseless. She would NEVER have made him leave.

>

> After that, she got into her real hobby, PRISONERS! She started writing

> to a guy in prison for armed robbery, then dragged me to a family

> visitation day, where she took him a picnic, and then was hanging all

> over him, kissing and rubbing like teenagers, and crying as if he were

> the love of her life when we left.

>

> She wrote to them for most of her life, and was romantically involved

> with at least 3 that I know of, including 2 to whom she was " engaged " ,

> until thier parole was turned down, and it became apparent what the game

> was. She would send them money, go and visit, visit their families and

> get close as if she were the wife. In one case , she had stopped writing

> to one, moved 2 times since, to a different town , and 2 years had

> passed, and he showed up on her doorstep one evening. That scared her.

> But not enough to stop.

>

> She remarried while I was in the Navy, and first brought me to a dance

> at Parents without Partners, where she met this sleazeball, to meet him.

> Both of them had kids who were not with them, in her case I was grown,

> but just used it as a social network. It was for parents who were

> raising kids alone. At the time, I was 20, he was 29, she was 39. She

> wanted my permission or approval as if I were the adult and she the

> child, which, of course she always tried to do. I had enough sense to

> say it s your decision, you are a grown woman, do NOT put me in the

> place of saying no and having you blame me for being alone, or saying

> yes and having you blame me when the marriage fails. ( It did, 7 years

> later.)

>

> One of her hot buttons to push with me, to push me into a rage, after

> which she would say, dramatically, Oh I m just so scared of my sons

> temper. was to tell me inappropriate details about her gynocological

> problems, and or about her sexual relationships with my dad, or about

> his sexual preferences and philandering. Only after years, when I set a

> boundery that if you bring any of that up, the conversation ends at

> once, I ll hang up, or walk away, did she finally stop. And then only

> after I enforced that boundery several times.

>

> I found out from high school friends years later, when we were grown

> men, that she would have totally inappropriate converstions with them,

> telling them things they had no desire to know, until they finally chose

> not to ever come around her.

>

> And oddly, she would regularly condemn her sister, who had a child

> unmarried and raised her as a single mom, for " not keeping her skirts

> clean " Some how my Aunt was a slut for getting pregnant, but all of

> nadas activities were covered under the topic of ( ready for this?)

> well, you know a woman has needs, just like a man.

>

> And I would be screaming MOM, not only do I not want to KNOW, I dont

> want you to justify it to me!

>

> Why can t you do like all me and all the teenagers do, sneak around and

> do it in and Oldsmobile and lie about it.

>

> So, anyone find anything inappropriate in my nadas sexual choices?

>

> And, anyone else experience similar inappropriateness? This seems to be

> a fairly common thread in BP s and Bi Polars. And one more wound for us

> KO. s

>

> Doug

>

January 31, 2010

((((((missy))))))

Many of us have bpd (or bpd + other Cluster B pd) mothers who were sexually

inappropriate with us or with other people. Its not you, its her and the

dysfunction that is bpd.

I'm sorry you had to endure such things.

-Annie

> >

> > This topic was brought up in another thread, and got an immediate, oh

> > yea, me too, ( as we do so often) hit. So I thought it would be worth

> > pursuing.

> >

> > My first indication nada had no sense of bounderies about sexual matters

> > was when I was ten and asked innocently, regarding an electron

> > microscope picture of a fertilized ovum, so where does the sperm come

> > from. To my horror, I got a very detailed explaination of human

> > sexuality, on my lunch hour, and then had to go back to a 5th grade

> > classroom. I was mortified.

> >

> > After my parents divorced, nada started with a series of bf s, some ok

> > guys, some drunks, some assholes. It didnt really matter, except when

> > she would drag me , at 15 or 16, to spend the night on the couch of a

> > total stranger s house while she shared the bed with him. Then of

> > course, neither would want to get up to drive me to school next morning.

> >

> > 2 of the " men " she had relationships with during my junior and senior

> > years of HS were 19 and 20, respectively, and I , of course, was 15 and

> > 16. One of them, a real dirtbag, was brought to us by a friend, just

> > asking if he could spend the night for a few nights because his father

> > had kicked him out and he was sick. In retrospect, his father was wise,

> > and she should have let him die of pneumonia. She first adopted him (

> > another subject, how many had nada " adopt " kids or grandkids like they

> > were the golden child while neglecting the real ones?), and expected me

> > to treat him like a brother, and she gave him money, and let him drive

> > the car, and this went of for months. But it got wierd after a while,

> > and she d tell me how he was like the big brother i never had, then sit

> > on the couch in the dark whispering and holding hands and who knows what

> > else. Fortunately for my therapy bill, I didnt see " what else. " This

> > one only left when me and a car full of friends dragged him in a car and

> > let him no that he would either leave within 3 days, or we would find

> > him again and beat him senseless. She would NEVER have made him leave.

> >

> > After that, she got into her real hobby, PRISONERS! She started writing

> > to a guy in prison for armed robbery, then dragged me to a family

> > visitation day, where she took him a picnic, and then was hanging all

> > over him, kissing and rubbing like teenagers, and crying as if he were

> > the love of her life when we left.

> >

> > She wrote to them for most of her life, and was romantically involved

> > with at least 3 that I know of, including 2 to whom she was " engaged " ,

> > until thier parole was turned down, and it became apparent what the game

> > was. She would send them money, go and visit, visit their families and

> > get close as if she were the wife. In one case , she had stopped writing

> > to one, moved 2 times since, to a different town , and 2 years had

> > passed, and he showed up on her doorstep one evening. That scared her.

> > But not enough to stop.

> >

> > She remarried while I was in the Navy, and first brought me to a dance

> > at Parents without Partners, where she met this sleazeball, to meet him.

> > Both of them had kids who were not with them, in her case I was grown,

> > but just used it as a social network. It was for parents who were

> > raising kids alone. At the time, I was 20, he was 29, she was 39. She

> > wanted my permission or approval as if I were the adult and she the

> > child, which, of course she always tried to do. I had enough sense to

> > say it s your decision, you are a grown woman, do NOT put me in the

> > place of saying no and having you blame me for being alone, or saying

> > yes and having you blame me when the marriage fails. ( It did, 7 years

> > later.)

> >

> > One of her hot buttons to push with me, to push me into a rage, after

> > which she would say, dramatically, Oh I m just so scared of my sons

> > temper. was to tell me inappropriate details about her gynocological

> > problems, and or about her sexual relationships with my dad, or about

> > his sexual preferences and philandering. Only after years, when I set a

> > boundery that if you bring any of that up, the conversation ends at

> > once, I ll hang up, or walk away, did she finally stop. And then only

> > after I enforced that boundery several times.

> >

> > I found out from high school friends years later, when we were grown

> > men, that she would have totally inappropriate converstions with them,

> > telling them things they had no desire to know, until they finally chose

> > not to ever come around her.

> >

> > And oddly, she would regularly condemn her sister, who had a child

> > unmarried and raised her as a single mom, for " not keeping her skirts

> > clean " Some how my Aunt was a slut for getting pregnant, but all of

> > nadas activities were covered under the topic of ( ready for this?)

> > well, you know a woman has needs, just like a man.

> >

> > And I would be screaming MOM, not only do I not want to KNOW, I dont

> > want you to justify it to me!

> >

> > Why can t you do like all me and all the teenagers do, sneak around and

> > do it in and Oldsmobile and lie about it.

> >

> > So, anyone find anything inappropriate in my nadas sexual choices?

> >

> > And, anyone else experience similar inappropriateness? This seems to be

> > a fairly common thread in BP s and Bi Polars. And one more wound for us

> > KO. s

> >

> > Doug

> >

>

January 31, 2010

Here is a link to the diagnostic criteria for bpd:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder

A person who has 5 or more of these 9 behaviors/traits can be diagnosed as bpd,

if she also displays the diagnostic traits for general personality disorder, but

it takes a trained and experienced psychiatrist or psychologist to make a formal

diagnosis.

So, its possible for a mother to have only a few bpd traits and (therefor) not

be diagnosable as bpd, but still be able to do a lot of damage to a child in her

care.

There is also the factor of " high-functioning " vs " low-functioning. " A

high-functioning bpd can control her dysfunctional behaviors well enough to hold

down a job and be presentable and normal-appearing in public, and only act out

damaging, destructive behaviors in private with those who are close to her: her

husband and children.

Low-functioning bpds have difficulty controlling their dysfunctional behaviors

in public and have trouble holding down jobs and getting along with other

people. These are the bpds who get in trouble with the police and are in and out

of jail often.

The inappropriate sexualizing of the parent-child relationship is called

" emotional incest. " It includes inappropriate sharing of sexual fantasies and

experiences with the child, pressuring the child to share her sexual feelings

and experiences with the parent, and really pretty much anything short of actual

physical sexual contact between parent and child. It is highly abusive and

traumatizing. I'm so sorry that anyone here had to endure inappropriate

sexually-charged experiences with his or her bpd parent. Its so wrong for a

parent to do that to their own child. Incest is even worse.

There surely must be a special place in Hell for parents who sexually violate

their own children.

-Annie

>

> My mom has no sexual boundaries- I had to hear about her sex life my whole

life. I swear she gets more graphic the older I get. The last time she was at my

house she asked me if I had a sex toy she could borrow (!!!!!!) as her husband

is in cancer treatment and having some side effects that leave them I guess with

no sex life. I'm not asking. I don't want to know. I have to literally put my

hand up and almost yell NOSTOP TALKING RIGHT NOW STOP STOP STOP STOP. I always

chalked it up to her not having any friends, but even when she did, she'd still

'confide' in me about her sex life, or ask me questions about mine!

>

> So many things I didn't know were an issue until I started reading this list.

I still don't know if she has BPD, is there a spectrum? Can you have it a

little, or have it a lot? I don't know, I hear a lot of things that make me

think YES absolutely and then others that make me doubt it. Still figuring it

out.

>

> a in WA

>

> ________________________________

>

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Sent: Sun, January 31, 2010 11:08:31 PM

> Subject: Nada and sexual inappropriateness

>

> Â