Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Thank god for that. magnetass sends CareFlite > WBAP is reporting a CareFlite helicopter crashed on the helipad at Methodist > in Dallas enroute to a Crowley scene. The helicopter lost power on take-off > and landed upside down on the roof. The crew (pilot, nurse, paramedic) are > being treated but the radio reported that injuries are minor. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 Thanks for the update. I received a call about this but could not find any information. CareFlite WBAP is reporting a CareFlite helicopter crashed on the helipad at Methodist in Dallas enroute to a Crowley scene. The helicopter lost power on take-off and landed upside down on the roof. The crew (pilot, nurse, paramedic) are being treated but the radio reported that injuries are minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 They are reporting a hard landing, but the pictures show it was a crash with the aircraft totaled. The pilot has neck and back injuries (not life-threatening) and the nurse and paramedic were thankfully uninjured. It was another Agusta 109E--a model plagued with problems including a " hard landing " crash in Fort Worth last November. E. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, Texas CareFlite WBAP is reporting a CareFlite helicopter crashed on the helipad at Methodist in Dallas enroute to a Crowley scene. The helicopter lost power on take-off and landed upside down on the roof. The crew (pilot, nurse, paramedic) are being treated but the radio reported that injuries are minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Very good question. Lifestar out of Amarillo will not fly unless certain criteria are met. All EMS personnel are given the criteria and adhere to them. Danny L. Owner/NREMT-P Panhandle Emergency Training Services And Response (PETSAR) Office FAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 >> " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot lost power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to put the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said.<< This pilot is my nominee for aeromedical pilot of the year. I have a problem with rooftop LZs; flew off one in Fargo, and I get chills thinking of the mental picture that I have of this scenario. A flat spinning helicopter, breaking off rotor blades and other parts on the building as it makes a 10 story drop, until it impacts into whatever is below that edge of the roof. No one would have walked away from that one, including whatever pedestrians were in the fall path or patients in rooms the debris flew into. >>Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an injured person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was taken to a hospital by ground ambulance, she said. ... The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the first place?<< During World War II, the phrase " Is this trip really necessary? " was used to encourage people to save their rationed gasoline. The same question should be asked here, or any marginal helicopter transport. >>Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK.<< Life is precious, not to be wasted. Larry RN LP EMSI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 -- " Luther " wrote: >>THIS IS WHY BEING A HELICOPTER PILOT IS SO DIFFERENT FROM BEING AN AIRPLANE PILOT, AND WHY, IN GENERAL, AIRPLANE PILOTS ARE OPEN, CLEAR-EYED, BOUYANT EXTROVERTS, AND HELICOPTER PILOTS ARE BROODERS, INTROSPECTIVE ANTICIPATORS OF TROUBLE, THAT KNOW IF SOMETHING BAD HAS NOT HAPPENED, IT IS ABOUT TO.<< Helicopter pilots are never disappointed. If things go wrong, they have a 'Plan B' in place; if things go right, they are pleasantly surprised. I think I am more rotary pilot that fixed wing, in personality. " Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for; it is a thing to be achieved. " - W.J. Larry RN LP EMSI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. Gill CCEMT-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Your last sentence sums it up the best. That's my major complaint with our medic's these days. My LT at work tells people that I let my pride stand before my patient care. Why, because I don't call careflite. I strongly feel that old style " load and go " is best. I have done many studies on time and how long you truly wait or " delay " transport waiting on CF. Most people stop counting once CF is on the ground. That's just the beginning. CF never " load and go " , you can count on several additional minutes on scene doing what any competent medic should have already done. Crowley calls CF for a non-life threatening patient and they crash a ship responding, then they go by ground any way. " Word is they were not going to Crowley Fire Department, it was AMR outside of Crowley " . My god why do we not do our jobs in the first place and use CF for what its intended use is. I will use CF for burns or amputations. Basically if they need a Dallas facility. I don't feel CF was started to keep us from having to go to the ED, or for medics that are afraid of patient care. The expense patient incur on one flight is most of the time enough to devastate their budget for years. Most of the time, CF does nothing we could have not done ourselves in our truck, on the way to the ED. Yeah, if I let my " pride " keep me from calling CF then so be it, but you can bet my patient care does not suffer for it. I also understand out laying area's, by all means if you can wait 30 minutes on CF and then they take the patient by air and there is no way you could have beat them to the ED use them. But most of us are 15 minutes at most from JPS, I see no need to fly any thing to Fort Worth. I do not think less of EMT-P's that use CF, I just don't understand why systems choose to abuse that resource so often. I make my people justify the use of CF. CF is not a precautionary measure in our system. CareFlite CareFlite helicopter lands on side after losing power The pilot of a CareFlite helicopter that lost power as it tried to take off from Methodist Medical Center on Wednesday night landed the chopper on its side, a company spokeswoman said. On board were the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic. The pilot was treated for minor injuries. " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot lost power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to put the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said. The helicopter, with its rotors broken off, lay on its side on the landing pad atop the hospital south of downtown Dallas. Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an injured person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was taken to a hospital by ground ambulance, she said. The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the first place? Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX Don't miss EMStock 2004 May 21-23, 2004 in Midlothian, Texas Visit www.emstock.com <http://www.emstock.com/> for details today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 There are several reasons, several you mentioned here. I went from a large, rural/suburban territory (Cy-Fair, Houston), to a mid-sized city (Beaumont). Folks call Cy-Fair " Cy-Fly " for a reason. One is they don't have anything close to an adequate trauma ED anywhere close. Hermann/Taub is 30+ miles away, and most times, traffic is the major concern. Second, you can't get in trouble flying somebody who doesn't need it, but it isn't worth your job to NOT fly somebody who ended up needing it. I never agreed with using the bird for mechanism, or even suspected injuries, which is one of the many philosophical differences that I had with their new medical director. So, it has become like everything else in medicine, CYA. Take the decision away from the ambulance driver, and try to make the system " medic proof " . Call the bird for ambulatory MVA patients, shootings to lower extremities, drunks with decreased LOC, football players with cracked ribs, isolated head injuries, and the mother of them all.....traumatic arrests. Plus, there is this weird phenomenon........calling the bird is COOL! It makes you feel like a badass, trauma god. It makes your whole shift.....until you've done it a few times, then it gets old when you realize that you could have been at the ED 10 minutes ago as the chopper is landing. In a well-trained system with seasoned people, this oddity is limited, but in one with lots of turnover and new medics, you have a breeding ground for " LifeFlight-itis " . If your trauma assessment skills aren't up to snuff, it is a big load off you to be able to dump it off on that big red/orange and blue angel in the sky. Once you've seen one of your co-workers canned for loading the pt. in the rig and taking them to where a guy who wears MD on his lab coat works, calling the bird seems like a wonderful idea as opposed to having to find a new gig. I took Dr. Bledsoe's " Myths of EMS " class at conference last year, and he just confirmed my existing philosophy on helicopter transports. BTW doc, many thanks for that gem of a class. Every night when I don't have to post, I send my unending gratitude! magnetass sends CareFlite > > CareFlite helicopter lands on side after losing power > > The pilot of a CareFlite helicopter that lost power as it tried to take > off > from Methodist Medical Center on Wednesday night landed the chopper on > its > side, a company spokeswoman said. > > On board were the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic. The pilot was treated > for > minor injuries. > > " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot lost > power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to > put > the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite > spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said. > > The helicopter, with its rotors broken off, lay on its side on the > landing > pad atop the hospital south of downtown Dallas. > > Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an injured > person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was taken > to a > hospital by ground ambulance, she said. > > > > > > The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the first > place? > > > > Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK. > > > > > > > Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > > Midlothian, TX > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't miss EMStock 2004 > > May 21-23, 2004 in Midlothian, Texas > > Visit www.emstock.com <http://www.emstock.com/> for details today! > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 In a message dated 9/5/2003 9:12:20 PM Central Standard Time, Gillmedic523@... writes: I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. Gill CCEMT-P This sounds like a statement made by someone who cannot triage. Why would a Paramedic today, be in doubt. You have been given all of the tools to make the critical decisions. It either is or it isn't. Your protocols should be narrowed to include these decisions. It's not a guessing game. Andy Foote EMS Manager City of Beaumont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I have seen Paramedics in North Texas fly many cases that were not life threatning, and could have been transported by ground. This " fly it out " started when a certain provider came to North Texas, who coincidently had both helicopters and EMS ground service. Their predecessors are just as crazy about the helicopter as the 1st group was. jh Re: CareFlite I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. Gill CCEMT-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I totally agree with you Chief Howery! jh CareFlite CareFlite helicopter lands on side after losing power The pilot of a CareFlite helicopter that lost power as it tried to take off from Methodist Medical Center on Wednesday night landed the chopper on its side, a company spokeswoman said. On board were the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic. The pilot was treated for minor injuries. " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot lost power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to put the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said. The helicopter, with its rotors broken off, lay on its side on the landing pad atop the hospital south of downtown Dallas. Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an injured person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was taken to a hospital by ground ambulance, she said. The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the first place? Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX Don't miss EMStock 2004 May 21-23, 2004 in Midlothian, Texas Visit www.emstock.com <http://www.emstock.com/> for details today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 The point is, despite what heppens in court, flying patients in anything other than extreme rural settings saves so little time as to be insignificant. I prefer WHEN IN DOUBT, HIT THE ROAD magnetass sends Re: CareFlite > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of > transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. > > Gill CCEMT-P > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 even in extreme rural areas, we have found we can get the patient to the local hospital for stabilization, and on to hospitals in Dallas faster than the helio can arrive and return the patient to Dallas. Paris, TX Doug Re: CareFlite > > > > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I > would > > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to > > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means > of > > transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. > > > > Gill CCEMT-P > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Thanks, I was slightly apprehensive about sending this up but decided to any way. I don't want medic's to think I am talking them down because they called CF. But, I do feel that the assessment skills of our younger Paramedics suffer because calling CF is too widely accepted and never questioned as to what the true need was. I totally agree if a patient needs to fly, they need to fly no questions, but I also feel after seeing people fly so many patients, that 90% of CF's scene flights are simply precautionary " what ever that is " . :-) Thanks for your reply, Steve Howery EMT-P Re: CareFlite I totally agree with you Chief Howery! jh CareFlite CareFlite helicopter lands on side after losing power The pilot of a CareFlite helicopter that lost power as it tried to take off from Methodist Medical Center on Wednesday night landed the chopper on its side, a company spokeswoman said. On board were the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic. The pilot was treated for minor injuries. " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot lost power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to put the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said. The helicopter, with its rotors broken off, lay on its side on the landing pad atop the hospital south of downtown Dallas. Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an injured person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was taken to a hospital by ground ambulance, she said. The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the first place? Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK. Bledsoe, DO, FACEP Midlothian, TX Don't miss EMStock 2004 May 21-23, 2004 in Midlothian, Texas Visit www.emstock.com <http://www.emstock.com/> for details today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 I hate to admit this, but I always imagined what the LifeFlight crews said after they left a scene. " Oh christ, can you BELIEVE they called us for this crap? " I have to rant here a minute. One of my LifeFlight scenes involved a 14 year old football player who took a shot to the ribs during a kick-off return. I was sitting in the stands watching another game when I heard sirens, looked up and saw an ambulance pulling into the parking lot. Being a dept. paramedic, I ambled over to see what was up. The crew had the kid on a board, c-collar and Os running. He was in pain obviously, and hyperventilating badly. He looked quite ashen, and was combative due to the hypercarbia. The medic was a new red patch, but I had worked with her a lot while she was an intermediate, and she had a lot on the ball. Since the new LifeFlight " culture " had taken hold, she went ahead and called for the bird before I got there. I didn't dispute it because we hadn't really assessed the kid very well, other than the medic said she couldn't feel radials. OK, I'll buy that, so we loaded him up, and waited for the cavalry to arrive. Meanwhile, we got him calmed down, started a couple of lines, and did a good assessment. His breathing had slowed to a fast, but acceptable rate, BP 120ish, nice and tachy, like 120. After a few minutes his VS started to normalize, HR slowed, breathing slowed, and we were able to determine that he probably had a rib or 2 loosened from his sternum. I was concerned about a flail segment, but it was evident that everything was still intact. Now, dead football players were kind of a big thing in the Houston area, as we'd had a few who died from heat related causes recently, so at this point, I was really debating cancelling the bird and just going to a local ER, but I knew there would be hell to pay later and it wouldn't fall on me since I was a volly. Medical control showed, and immediately got spun up imagining all kinds of dire consequences, and how DARE you even suggest cancelling the helicopter......he could have a cardiac contusion, bilateral hemothorax, cardiac tamponade, flail chest causing a tension pneumothorax, transcected aorta, why the list is endless! Yeah, he could have all of that....and a meteor could fall on the ambulance and kill us all. I imagine that the s/s of ANY of those conditions would have revealed themselves in the 30 minutes it took to clear the parking lot, land the bird and transfer care with a perfectly good ER 8 minutes away. How many JV football players have you heard of that died of a transcected aorta? Has it happened? I feel pretty sure, but I also imagine they died on the field, huh? With this line of reasoning, there should be 11 helicopters at every JV game in the state. Run a play, have the medics dash out and c-spine everybody, load 2 per bird and off they go....except now you need 22 more players, and 11 more helicopters. Net result of this deal was that a good assessment was ignored and replaced by CYA and an overactive " index of suspicion " . Was it a good call? I guess that depends on what your perspective is. I'm sure the risk management guy was overjoyed. I know firsthand that the kids mother was hysterical after being informed by medical control that her son had been " potentially grieveously injured " and was being sent by LifeFlight. I know that greater co. was deprived of an air ambulance for an hour, and I wonder how hysterical the mother was after she got the bill? I also caught a look shared between the LifeFlight crew after report had been given that removed all doubt about what they would say about the call after it was done. " I can't BELIEVE they called us for that!! " What's the answer? I haven't a clue, but I know for a fact that medicine has evolved from being about treating the sick and injured to being about shifting responsibility and keeping your own behind out of hot water. How many times do you hear from a family member about a kid with a cold " better safe than sorry " as they insist on availing themselves of MICU transport? I believe it is the same way with the helicopter, because the LAST thing you want to do is have to explain to a jury why you didn't send Joe Bob to the trauma center in a helicopter because now he has chronic back pain or loss of sexual function and SOMEBODY is going to pay for it. " well, you see your honor, Joe Bob got drunk and tripped over a curb " " are you that careless? How could you not realize that my client was grieveously injured? How is it that you, an ambulance driver, get to make decisions that affect people's lives? How could you not understand that the magical healing powers of an air ambulance would have made all the differece for my client? YOU are responsible for my clients inability to work at the carnival or enjoy sexual relations with his young bride/cousin Wanda Mae, and YOU are going to pay for it! " Is it safer for you to send everybody by air? Probably. Where's the line? Is there a line? Is it better for the patients? Probably not, but at least you aren't gonna catch hell from anybody. Did I mention vote for prop 12? Band-aid on a femoral artery, but a start. magnetass sends CareFlite > > CareFlite helicopter lands on side after losing power > > The pilot of a CareFlite helicopter that lost power as it tried to > take > off > from Methodist Medical Center on Wednesday night landed the chopper on > its > side, a company spokeswoman said. > > On board were the pilot, a nurse and a paramedic. The pilot was > treated > for > minor injuries. > > " They were lifting off to respond to a scene request, and the pilot > lost > power and rather than go over the side of the building, he elected to > put > the aircraft on its side, which we are very thankful for, " CareFlite > spokeswoman Martha Holcomb said. > > The helicopter, with its rotors broken off, lay on its side on the > landing > pad atop the hospital south of downtown Dallas. > > Holcomb said the helicopter was headed for Crowley to pick up an > injured > person. The injuries were not life threatening, so the person was > taken > to a > hospital by ground ambulance, she said. > > > > > > The obvious question here is why was the helicopter called in the > first > place? > > > > Thank goodness our friends at CareFlite are OK. > > > > > > > Bledsoe, DO, FACEP > > Midlothian, TX > > > > > > > > > > > > > Don't miss EMStock 2004 > > May 21-23, 2004 in Midlothian, Texas > > Visit www.emstock.com <http://www.emstock.com/> for details today! > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 Well, you run a different system boss. Not everybody gets to work in a system that encourages critcal thinking and gives the autonomy to make tough calls and the ability to have your hide remain intact if you make a mistake. Lots of folks work in systems where the easiest thing to do to continue recieving a paycheck is to try and make the fewest decisions possible. Those of us who work for you could work anywhere in the state but stay where we are, and there is a reason. magnetass sends Re: CareFlite > In a message dated 9/5/2003 9:12:20 PM Central Standard Time, > Gillmedic523@... writes: > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of > transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. > > Gill CCEMT-P > This sounds like a statement made by someone who cannot triage. Why would a > Paramedic today, be in doubt. You have been given all of the tools to make > the critical decisions. It either is or it isn't. Your protocols should be > narrowed to include these decisions. It's not a guessing game. > > Andy Foote > EMS Manager > City of Beaumont > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 -- I have to agree with Doug about the decision to transport rather than fly IF the patient is already at the hospital. Scene Flights are a different ball game. Im sure that like most everyone else who utilizes air services, We call and put a bird on standby, or possibly launch them depending on our first responders on scene.Everyone knows that someone with a head injury needs facilities to deal with the patients problem. They dont need to transported to a basic trauma facility a WAIT for three hours to be accepted at the Level 1 or II trauma center Shoemate CCEMT-P Hopkins county EMS - In , " D.Garnett " <emtp@d...> wrote: > even in extreme rural areas, we have found we can get the patient to the > local hospital for stabilization, and on to hospitals in Dallas faster than > the helio can arrive and return the patient to Dallas. > Paris, TX > Doug > Re: CareFlite > > > > > > > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I > > would > > > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try > to > > > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest > means > > of > > > transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. > > > > > > Gill CCEMT-P > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 > In a message dated 9/5/2003 9:12:20 PM Central Standard Time, > Gillmedic523@a... writes: > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM OUT " . I would > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end than try to > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the quickest means of > transport for their family member that is now dead because I didn't. > > Gill CCEMT-P > This sounds like a statement made by someone who cannot triage. Why would a > Paramedic today, be in doubt. You have been given all of the tools to make > the critical decisions. It either is or it isn't. Your protocols should be > narrowed to include these decisions. It's not a guessing game. > > Andy Foote > EMS Manager > City of Beaumont > > > AMEN Sister!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 > > In a message dated 9/5/2003 9:12:20 PM Central Standard Time, > > Gillmedic523@a... writes: > > I agree with the old addage.......... " WHEN IN DOUBT, FLY THEM > OUT " . I would > > rather be wrong and fly someone that didn't need it in the end > than try to > > explain to a family in a courtroom why I didn't utilize the > quickest means of > > transport for their family member that is now dead because I > didn't. > > > > Gill CCEMT-P > > This sounds like a statement made by someone who cannot triage. > Why would a > > Paramedic today, be in doubt. You have been given all of the > tools to make > > the critical decisions. It either is or it isn't. Your protocols > should be > > narrowed to include these decisions. It's not a guessing game. > > > > Andy Foote > > EMS Manager > > City of Beaumont > > > > > > AMEN Brother!!!!!sorry bout that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 Dear Mr. Foote, If you had the convience of being close to a hospital that has most everything your patient would need, this would not be a question that would be raised. When you are out in rural settings, there can be some doubt at times whether to fly and what patients to fly if there is limited aeromedical service available and very limited services available at the local facilities. Trauma is spelled out fairly well with protocol. What about the MI patients that are 50-60 minutes from a cath lab (which in this area is becoming the MOST appropriate treatement for MI) instead of the drug treatments available. That is where the " most appropriate facility " comes in to play. Also in trauma, just because they meet " trauma critera " doesn't mean they need areomedical transport. Do we see some possible doubt in whether we should fly some patients???? It is not a matter of triage, it's a matter of what is best for the patient in the circumstances presented at the time of their need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 Andy think hard now you are on the 18th hole and suddenly you are having chest pain do you wish to wait for an ems unit out of Beaumont as I know you would not call me, or an ems unit out of Woodville or a flight service. Think Andy rural service is different from city ems service in more ways than you imagine. Re: Re: CareFlite > Dear Mr. Foote, > If you had the convience of being close to a hospital that has most > everything your patient would need, this would not be a question that would be raised. > When you are out in rural settings, there can be some doubt at times whether > to fly and what patients to fly if there is limited aeromedical service > available and very limited services available at the local facilities. Trauma is > spelled out fairly well with protocol. What about the MI patients that are > 50-60 minutes from a cath lab (which in this area is becoming the MOST appropriate > treatement for MI) instead of the drug treatments available. That is where > the " most appropriate facility " comes in to play. Also in trauma, just because > they meet " trauma critera " doesn't mean they need areomedical transport. Do > we see some possible doubt in whether we should fly some patients???? It is > not a matter of triage, it's a matter of what is best for the patient in the > circumstances presented at the time of their need. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 Andy, This is a loaded question, based on ALL the resources, ground and air in YOUR area, I would recommend you wait on Beaumont EMS. Re: Re: CareFlite > > > > Dear Mr. Foote, > > If you had the convience of being close to a hospital that has most > > everything your patient would need, this would not be a question that > would be raised. > > When you are out in rural settings, there can be some doubt at times > whether > > to fly and what patients to fly if there is limited aeromedical service > > available and very limited services available at the local facilities. > Trauma is > > spelled out fairly well with protocol. What about the MI patients that > are > > 50-60 minutes from a cath lab (which in this area is becoming the MOST > appropriate > > treatement for MI) instead of the drug treatments available. That is > where > > the " most appropriate facility " comes in to play. Also in trauma, just > because > > they meet " trauma critera " doesn't mean they need areomedical transport. > Do > > we see some possible doubt in whether we should fly some patients???? It > is > > not a matter of triage, it's a matter of what is best for the patient in > the > > circumstances presented at the time of their need. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 If I was on the 18th hole and had a sudden chest pain? Well, I probably just missed another putt. Better play 18 more. Somebody please pull up the post where I said NO HELICOPTERS. I don't remember it. I did say that you better know why you are using it and not look like a Dufus when the bird showed up because sister took 9 Tylenol. Where I work and where I live are two different stories. Where I work, we only fly out burn victims. I work in a large town. I live in a community 40 miles north of where I work. If anyone, not just me, had a sudden chest pain where I live, I would check the patient out, run an EKG, get some history and make a decision based on my findings. The last thing I want to see as a Paramedic and yes a Manager of Beaumont EMS, is for the bird to land and my patient belch and then walk off to his golf cart. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.