Re: Anyone experienced a BPD parent actually get better?

January 6, 2010

I refuse to embrace hopelessness, that says no, they can t get better.

My own experience was that nada died at 73, still a raging BPD to the

end. Therapy was a joke, any T who challenged her assumptions or

behavoirs was instantly split to an evil person and dropped. In fact,

the only way the Dr got her into therapy for any extended period was to

say no more prescriptions unless you go to therapy.

One of the books on BPD I ve read, and I can t remember for sure but I

think it was New Hope for People with BPD and their familys, made a

statement about the aegis for successful therapy with a BP. It was, I

accept myself, I m OK, now lets change everything about me.

A tough sell. But in thier twisted world, it makes sense. Super low self

esteem and a pathological fear of abandonment, so they must accept that

at some level they ARE a good person. Having done that, they must face

that their emotional behaviors are so terribly far out of whack, that

they must radically change them or their fears become self fulfilling

prophecies.

I ll take very slight issue with one statement made in this thread,

based on my experience. It is not that they don t belive there is

anything wrong with them, I think, but that they think so much is wrong

with them that if they admit it, they fear everyone will leave them. So

they put on the face that says, I m giving and loving and self

sacrificing. At times of course, she would say I m terrible, I know I m

an awful mother. But that was not really owning her stuff, for she would

deny any specifics of her behavior. What she was doing was trying to

manipulate me into saying, no your not terrible, and re assuring her.

Like addiction, or other behavioral problems, the first step is to admit

that you have a problem. It is difficult for addicts, and that is why

large numbers of them die of their addictions. It is shatteringly hard

for a BP, and as a result , based on my limited sampling, most of them

die lonely, and in pain, and cut off from the ones for whom they care

the most.

If we could hold them down and give them a shot and cure it, KO s all

over the world would tackle them and give the shot. As it is, much help

is available, but it depends on their willingness to push thru the veil

of FOG and own their problem. Again, I refuse to be hopeless and say

no, they cannot recover, but they are likely the most difficult

emotional problem to treat.

Doug

>

> Am I fooling myself? Can a BPD parent actually " get better " ?

>

> Four years ago I stumbled across " I Hate You Don't Leave Me " . I had

never heard of BPD before finding that book. But there I was reading a

pargraph, and for the first time in my life I knew there was nothing

wrong with me -- I was normal. Having said this, up to that point, I was

a b--ch. I was an emotionally abusive mother. And berating your child is

far from " normal " .

>

> I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but honestly, up to

that point, I thought I was born with a short temper gene. Sounds weak,

but it's the truth. I thought I had a F-You I don't need you gene

because my mom had it, too.

>

> At the risk of writing a letter which sounds like " it's all about me " ,

I thought I would ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met a

mom who has really, seriously, made a daily committment for several

years to break free from the behaviors she never should have trespassed

against another living soul: especially her children and husband.

>

> I am in an awkward position, and I don't know where to turn. Seems

there isn't a category in a forum for someone like me: a recovered BPD

(who can empathize with so many things you very wise, brave adult

children talk about -- I understand this horrible (disorder) from both

sides, and now I am stuck between my own mother who has BPD, and a

daughter who I suspect has BPD, (and a grand-daughter due to bless this

world in July whom I pray never, ever knows the wrath of BPD.)

>

> Is there anyone out there who knows another parent that has broken

free? I mean really made a mindful committment to change their behaviors

and stuck to it? Because I would like to meet them.

>

> Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy letter. I'm new

here.

>

January 6, 2010

Hi D, from what I've read there is hope for people who use Dialetical Behavior

Therapy - Marcia Linehan's work. I've also been convinced the AJ Mahiri's

recovery and understanding of all this is real - she's got a website with tons

of information on it. I've found it very helpful in understanding my mother

and my own fleas.

Still I think on average, most people with personality disorders particularly

BPD are less likely to be introspective and want to get well. My mother has

very little self-awareness, but I will say once she got on the blood pressure

medicine propranolol it helped her temper to be calmer (it blocks adrenaline).

She still has very distorted views of the world that are hurtful, but the

medicine did bring about some change.

Have you ever spoken to your daughter about BPD? I don't know if she'd be

receptive but you may be in a position to influence whether she looks to get

help and is more aware of how she interacts with your future granddaughter. In

the end though all you can do is work to be as healthy as you can, so you can be

that good influence that makes a difference.

>

> Am I fooling myself? Can a BPD parent actually " get better " ?

>

> Four years ago I stumbled across " I Hate You Don't Leave Me " . I had never

heard of BPD before finding that book. But there I was reading a pargraph, and

for the first time in my life I knew there was nothing wrong with me -- I was

normal. Having said this, up to that point, I was a b--ch. I was an emotionally

abusive mother. And berating your child is far from " normal " .

>

> I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but honestly, up to that point,

I thought I was born with a short temper gene. Sounds weak, but it's the truth.

I thought I had a F-You I don't need you gene because my mom had it, too.

>

> At the risk of writing a letter which sounds like " it's all about me " , I

thought I would ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met a mom who has

really, seriously, made a daily committment for several years to break free from

the behaviors she never should have trespassed against another living soul:

especially her children and husband.

>

> I am in an awkward position, and I don't know where to turn. Seems there isn't

a category in a forum for someone like me: a recovered BPD (who can empathize

with so many things you very wise, brave adult children talk about -- I

understand this horrible (disorder) from both sides, and now I am stuck between

my own mother who has BPD, and a daughter who I suspect has BPD, (and a

grand-daughter due to bless this world in July whom I pray never, ever knows the

wrath of BPD.)

>

> Is there anyone out there who knows another parent that has broken free? I

mean really made a mindful committment to change their behaviors and stuck to

it? Because I would like to meet them.

>

> Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy letter. I'm new here.

>

January 6, 2010

I agree with some of the other posts. My Nada doesn't acknowledge that there is

anything wrong with HER behavior. If there is something wrong with her it's

" so-and-so's (mine, my dad's, sister's, etc) fault. "

Any therapists are split as black and dropped if they come anywhere close to

figuring out there is something wrong with her. In my Nada's ideal therapy

world, her therapist would just sympathize with her. Apparently she got one to

diagnose her with an " adjustment disorder " because she's " adjusting " to the

abandonment of her family (My dad, sister, and I moving out to get away from the

Waif-Witch.)

I do hope that BPs can get better. They would have to fully recognize their

behavior and turn it around. Basically, they'd have to admit their faults which

hardly any of them recognize or acknowledge because they're in denial. The fear

consumes them.

It sounds like you recognized your behaviors. It's sad that many BP sufferers

will never see the light.

- Steph

>

> Am I fooling myself? Can a BPD parent actually " get better " ?

>

> Four years ago I stumbled across " I Hate You Don't Leave Me " . I had never

heard of BPD before finding that book. But there I was reading a pargraph, and

for the first time in my life I knew there was nothing wrong with me -- I was

normal. Having said this, up to that point, I was a b--ch. I was an emotionally

abusive mother. And berating your child is far from " normal " .

>

> I consider myself a fairly intelligent person, but honestly, up to that point,

I thought I was born with a short temper gene. Sounds weak, but it's the truth.

I thought I had a F-You I don't need you gene because my mom had it, too.

>

> At the risk of writing a letter which sounds like " it's all about me " , I

thought I would ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met a mom who has

really, seriously, made a daily committment for several years to break free from

the behaviors she never should have trespassed against another living soul:

especially her children and husband.

>

> I am in an awkward position, and I don't know where to turn. Seems there isn't

a category in a forum for someone like me: a recovered BPD (who can empathize

with so many things you very wise, brave adult children talk about -- I

understand this horrible (disorder) from both sides, and now I am stuck between

my own mother who has BPD, and a daughter who I suspect has BPD, (and a

grand-daughter due to bless this world in July whom I pray never, ever knows the

wrath of BPD.)

>

> Is there anyone out there who knows another parent that has broken free? I

mean really made a mindful committment to change their behaviors and stuck to

it? Because I would like to meet them.

>

> Thank you for taking the time to read this lengthy letter. I'm new here.

>

January 8, 2010

Dee,

You are the hope I have wanted to see in the BPD world, ever since I

came to this list serve.

I am proud you made the discovery and saw that there was hope.

Thanks for sharing and don't give up on us, even though many of us rag

on our nadas and fadas regularly. It is part of OUR healing process,

and I guess it will be part of yours, and you may have your buttons

pushed if you see " yourself " in our shares. Please persevere if you

can. I can not resolve my own BPD issues with my nada without

understanding things from my mom's point of view. I don't know if I

dare speak for anyone else, but I suspect this: We all need to hear

more of your story and how you worked things out.

I can't GET to see my mom's point of view because of all the

protection I must wear; nor can she listen to me. Often, despite my

best intentions at first, I get angry or feel attacked and then my

language I use does not communicate adequately the care and love I

have AS WELL AS MY NEED to be treated with respect. Or even if my

language is letter-perfect, something gets misheard, because my mom is

so fear-based. From your share I am seeing things a bit more

dispassionately, that the behavior a BPD uses in self-defense from

painful emotions is engrained and almost automatic, but that a BPD is

very very aware they are doing something wrong, they just don't know

what! I've always known my nada is stuck with some pretty

dysfunctional habits that do not get her what she wants in the love

department. I know she loves, but it is demonstrated in so many ways

that feel like just the opposite to me. As a kid-of at some point I

have had to say no to being damaged by her. My current " time-

out " (limited contact with nada) from her is helping me to accept that

I matter, AND nada does too, but I don't have to try any more for this

interlude to accomplish the impossible: Changing the prognosis of

recovery for someone I care about who is ill. It is a sort of time-

out for . It is one in which my job seems to be sticking up

for myself to the point where nada hangs up the phone. She actually

hangs up when she is getting a consequence for something she has said

or done, or when I set a boundary. It may sound strange, but it feels

pretty darn good these days (oh my, it has about three months) when I

see our lesson for the day come to an end, because she has hung up the

phone. I can go right back to my life and pick right up where I left

off. To me, that nada hangs up the phone means she encountered her

own limitations and could not deal with it. I see that as making my

job easier for next time. Now I could be mistaken on that point. We'll

see.

In any case, hearing your thoughts over this next bit of time (6

months or more?) will help me and perhaps many of us, to have enough

compassion to try it again if we DO have the door open to

communication with our nadas.

Thank you for your courage and honesty,

January 8, 2010

We are all at different places in our journey, and we all come from different

nadas. I respect the place that each of us is in. Some of us want to

understand our nadas. Some of us want to have a close relationship with them.

Some of us feel sorry for them.

Me, I don't give a rat's ass about my nada's suffering. I'm sick of hearing

about it, and I'm sick of being responsible for it.

" WHAH my daughter doesn't love me! "

Well guess what, I had to grow up with a *mother* who didn't show any love for

me, who bullied me, laughed at me, raged at me, burned me with cigarettes and a

curling iron. I DON'T LOVE YOU BECAUSE YOU HURT ME. YOU MADE THAT HAPPEN!

" WHAH my friend doesn't treat me with respect. "

Well guess what, I have the same problem, because I WAS RAISED BY A MENTAL CASE

WHO NEVER TAUGHT ME BOUNDARIES OR HOW TO BE A GOOD FRIEND. I had to learn these

things all on my own.

" WHAH I only had sex with your father because he wouldn't stop begging for it. "

Well guess what, I struggle with similar problems with setting boundaries

because I WAS RAISED BY A MENTAL CASE WHO NEVER TAUGHT ME BOUNDARIES AND BULLIED

ME SO MUCH THAT I HAD NO SELF ESTEEM. I had to learn these things all on my

own.

" WHAH I want to be best friends with my daughter and she won't talk to me for an

hour every day like I want. "

Well guess what, talking to your for an hour a day makes me physically and

mentally ill because I WAS RAISED BY A MENTAL CASE WHO NEVER TAUGHT ME ANY

BOUNDARIES AND MADE ME SO AFRAID OF HER THAT I CAN'T SAY NO TO HER, AT 36, and

it makes me crazy and spills over into every area of my life and I feel so

trapped by you that I think the only way out is suicide.

" WHAH I went through my daughter's garbage and found some mean things she wrote

about me. "

WHATEVER.

But that's just where I am.

Deanna

>

> Dee,

>

> You are the hope I have wanted to see in the BPD world, ever since I

> came to this list serve.

> I am proud you made the discovery and saw that there was hope.

>

> Thanks for sharing and don't give up on us, even though many of us rag

> on our nadas and fadas regularly. It is part of OUR healing process,

> and I guess it will be part of yours, and you may have your buttons

> pushed if you see " yourself " in our shares. Please persevere if you

> can. I can not resolve my own BPD issues with my nada without

> understanding things from my mom's point of view. I don't know if I

> dare speak for anyone else, but I suspect this: We all need to hear

> more of your story and how you worked things out.

>

> I can't GET to see my mom's point of view because of all the

> protection I must wear; nor can she listen to me. Often, despite my

> best intentions at first, I get angry or feel attacked and then my

> language I use does not communicate adequately the care and love I

> have AS WELL AS MY NEED to be treated with respect. Or even if my

> language is letter-perfect, something gets misheard, because my mom is

> so fear-based. From your share I am seeing things a bit more

> dispassionately, that the behavior a BPD uses in self-defense from

> painful emotions is engrained and almost automatic, but that a BPD is

> very very aware they are doing something wrong, they just don't know

> what! I've always known my nada is stuck with some pretty

> dysfunctional habits that do not get her what she wants in the love

> department. I know she loves, but it is demonstrated in so many ways

> that feel like just the opposite to me. As a kid-of at some point I

> have had to say no to being damaged by her. My current " time-

> out " (limited contact with nada) from her is helping me to accept that

> I matter, AND nada does too, but I don't have to try any more for this

> interlude to accomplish the impossible: Changing the prognosis of

> recovery for someone I care about who is ill. It is a sort of time-

> out for . It is one in which my job seems to be sticking up

> for myself to the point where nada hangs up the phone. She actually

> hangs up when she is getting a consequence for something she has said

> or done, or when I set a boundary. It may sound strange, but it feels

> pretty darn good these days (oh my, it has about three months) when I

> see our lesson for the day come to an end, because she has hung up the

> phone. I can go right back to my life and pick right up where I left

> off. To me, that nada hangs up the phone means she encountered her

> own limitations and could not deal with it. I see that as making my

> job easier for next time. Now I could be mistaken on that point. We'll

> see.

>

> In any case, hearing your thoughts over this next bit of time (6

> months or more?) will help me and perhaps many of us, to have enough

> compassion to try it again if we DO have the door open to

> communication with our nadas.

>

> Thank you for your courage and honesty,

>

January 8, 2010

I can get where different people are coming from, also.

I can understand the yearning to have some kind of relationship with one's

mother even when that person is mentally ill, but I can also understand and

empathize with the anger that wells out of the very deep wounds inflicted on

some of us in childhood and beyond.

Right now I'm feeling extreme outrage at my nada for what she did to Sister and

me, and anger at the toxicity she still exudes and the primal fear of her I

still have, but somewhere underneath I want to get past my anger and my fear and

just have some kind of two-way relationship with her that doesn't hurt me.

So, I get it. I feel for your hurt and outrage, Deanna.

-Annie

> >

> > Dee,

> >

> > You are the hope I have wanted to see in the BPD world, ever since I

> > came to this list serve.

> > I am proud you made the discovery and saw that there was hope.

> >

> > Thanks for sharing and don't give up on us, even though many of us rag

> > on our nadas and fadas regularly. It is part of OUR healing process,

> > and I guess it will be part of yours, and you may have your buttons

> > pushed if you see " yourself " in our shares. Please persevere if you

> > can. I can not resolve my own BPD issues with my nada without

> > understanding things from my mom's point of view. I don't know if I

> > dare speak for anyone else, but I suspect this: We all need to hear

> > more of your story and how you worked things out.

> >

> > I can't GET to see my mom's point of view because of all the

> > protection I must wear; nor can she listen to me. Often, despite my

> > best intentions at first, I get angry or feel attacked and then my

> > language I use does not communicate adequately the care and love I

> > have AS WELL AS MY NEED to be treated with respect. Or even if my

> > language is letter-perfect, something gets misheard, because my mom is

> > so fear-based. From your share I am seeing things a bit more

> > dispassionately, that the behavior a BPD uses in self-defense from

> > painful emotions is engrained and almost automatic, but that a BPD is

> > very very aware they are doing something wrong, they just don't know

> > what! I've always known my nada is stuck with some pretty

> > dysfunctional habits that do not get her what she wants in the love

> > department. I know she loves, but it is demonstrated in so many ways

> > that feel like just the opposite to me. As a kid-of at some point I

> > have had to say no to being damaged by her. My current " time-

> > out " (limited contact with nada) from her is helping me to accept that

> > I matter, AND nada does too, but I don't have to try any more for this

> > interlude to accomplish the impossible: Changing the prognosis of

> > recovery for someone I care about who is ill. It is a sort of time-

> > out for . It is one in which my job seems to be sticking up

> > for myself to the point where nada hangs up the phone. She actually

> > hangs up when she is getting a consequence for something she has said

> > or done, or when I set a boundary. It may sound strange, but it feels

> > pretty darn good these days (oh my, it has about three months) when I

> > see our lesson for the day come to an end, because she has hung up the

> > phone. I can go right back to my life and pick right up where I left

> > off. To me, that nada hangs up the phone means she encountered her

> > own limitations and could not deal with it. I see that as making my

> > job easier for next time. Now I could be mistaken on that point. We'll

> > see.

> >

> > In any case, hearing your thoughts over this next bit of time (6

> > months or more?) will help me and perhaps many of us, to have enough

> > compassion to try it again if we DO have the door open to

> > communication with our nadas.

> >

> > Thank you for your courage and honesty,

> >

January 8, 2010

Deanna, If I said anything out of my earnestness, I hope it was not a

trigger for you. I am sorry at your pain and am glad that you spoke up.

In my case, I know my nada love (d) me, and there were good things she

wanted to give, but the BPD crap gets in the way. I cannot say that I

fully love her though, because I am needing to stay protected. Even in

the days before Christmas, nada hurt me with her feelings of

entitlement.

I may be here again ragging on my nada as I reason things out,

uncovering some illusions I still have about her ability to become

loving in her dotage...

Peace is ever elusive with my mom. I realized after I posted earlier

today that of course, step one of being powerless applies after every

hopeful interchange with a BPD parent.

They are always reverting to step one. Now I realize I have other

choices than to do that with nada every time, like I was accustomed to.

I want to move on to hope. These days the real hope is in the life I

share with my chosen family, son and husband. And I am grateful to be

able to make a change for the next generation because I set some kind

of hopeful example for my brother even though I had to leave home at

18 and leave him on his own just with a few tools of awareness and my

long-distance caring. He was just 8 when I had to get away from my

nada's bad influences on my life.

I am grateful that I had enough in me to leave at 18, and thanks to

this list, I have divested myself of most of the hidden guilt I have

from not being able to be like many of my friends, who will be able to

be help elderly parents in their later years. I moved too far away to

be of much help, thank you God.

This post may be confusing, but so is life as a kid-of a BPD. Very

very confusing, because of all the mixed messages. Recently I

realized fully all the things I could have been in my life. Instead of

being a confident doctor, or a yoga teacher, or a scientist, or

therapist or healer, I have a phD in BPD earned from the school of

hard knocks, as do we all.

I don't mean to sound jaded, because this year, finally, I am glad for

the deeper insight into human nature that I have. But what a price!

January 9, 2010

Dee,

I know it is possible to get better, but you have to really want to. I don't

know anyone who has done it, but most bpds also don't really want to get

better--it's easier to keep using the same protective behaviors even if those

behaviors hurt other people and (often) themselves, because overall

the behaviors work to keep away the pain. They just prevent you from doing much

else--like having a fulfilling life, or functional relationships. And, for many

people, keeping away the pain is just a higher priority than anything else.

I think it's common for bpds to assume they were " just born that way " and, to

some extent, they may be. But it's also an assumption that prevents bpds from

having to take responsibility for their actions and I think that's basically its

purpose. If someone is just " like that " , then they can't be expected (either by

themselves or by others) to change.

I had a former therapist who has treated some bpd clients from time to time.

She's a smart woman--she wouldn't do it if she thought her clients couldn't get

better. So I feel pretty confident that there's hope. But it takes many years

of commitment and of very directed therapy.

Best of luck in your journey,

Ashana

The INTERNET now has a personality. YOURS! See your Yahoo! Homepage.

http://in.yahoo.com/

January 9, 2010

oh, I certainly am NOT trying to fix my nada..I know it's an impossible job

...not even a trained therapist could fix her because she doesn't want

help. I agree with you, Deanna, my nada was this way LONG before I was

born..I did not cause her to become this way, nor did I cause her to not

get " better " and I will not accept blame for any of her behavior

Jackie

No worries ! I guess I just wanted people to know that not

*everyone* on this board felt the way you did. That some of us are not

hoping/trying to fix our nadas. And honestly, during EMDR, I have found

myself saying that it is too bad that neither of us could ever get what we

wanted from our relationship. So it's not like I never have any compassion

for her. It's just that I will not be railroaded into believing her

problems are my problem/fault. Thank you for your kind post.

Deanna

January 9, 2010

hello All,

am new to the site, so bear with me if I overlook something.

Can a BPD parent get better?

My nada only improved under influence of psychotropics while in hospice care. I

flew in at her doctor's notice of imminent death and for several hours ( the

total of three visits before she passed) I experienced a mother who had the

decency to say, " I know why you stayed away from me and I don't blame you for

taking care of yourself. " And she asked my forgiveness for failing me as a

mother. This included setting me up for sexual abuse with a stepfather. So this

meant a lot to me.

I m not sure this qualifies as a 'nada getting better ', but I offer the

possibility that

you MAY get a moment of the sun piercing the clouds of horrific bs. And

forgiving doesnt imply taking more crap or making excuses for the crap. For me

the last visit, validated my walking away from my foo and aiming to heal my life

as only I could. Once i gave up on

life being fair, it went much better.

Walking away cost me greatly, as another family member worked the situation and

got my nada to assign them as beneficiary and me as executor with no inheritance

whatsoever. Like I wrote, life is not fair, but I am free and with much

counseling ( and dues paid in wasted years pre-counseling ) have managed to

find peace. My friends are my family!

Ironically, the other family member pissed the money away in booze and has a

horrible monkey on his back. It's almost like the cash had the 'Curse of the

Mommy' on it. :>

Go figure.

Best to All

_888