Re: Care to share Christmas memories of being a BPD's child?

December 14, 2009

I've never posted before - I just lurk and read and feel less alone. I guess I'm

somehow afraid that she (BPD Mom) is on here waiting for me to post so she can

say " AH HA! I KNEW YOU WERE BEING DRAMATIC! " .

However the holidays set me in a sour mood and no one I have in my life now

-really- understands just why I hate Christmas so much so I figured I would

post.

I think we all probably agree that there doesn't have to be any one particular

event that ruins any important family-togetherness holiday. Just the fact that

everyone around you has visions of sugar plumbs while you're trying to figure

out how to be jolly and normal in the crowd is enough to make any of us dislike

this time of year.

However I remember one Christmas that was probably the worst. It was the last

that I spent at home before running away later that school year. I was really

sick with and had been in bed and woozy and pretty much unable to take care of

myself. BPD mom had promised to stay with me while everyone else went to my

grandparent's house. Of course when I woke up the house was empty and mom had

insisted that they leave the phones at home so that they wouldn't disturb anyone

with ringing phones... after all it WAS Christmas. That meant I couldn't call

anyone and had no idea where anyone was. A couple of hours later they show up

with some turkey. Being sick made me uninterested in the turkey, being left

alone made me uninterested in her recanting of the holiday festivities. Of

course I was called ungrateful for not scarfing down the turkey and listening to

her ramble and had suddenly gone from sick to just " lazy and Scroogish " . I spent

the rest of the holiday break being hated on top of being sick.

Thanks for listening!

>

> I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had to

> pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> our house. No one could win.

>

> Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas eve

> night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

>

> My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> they weren't normal).

>

December 15, 2009

I know I've been MIA lately, mostly that's because things with Nada are quiet. I

avoid most of her phone calls but I do talk to her every now and then with very

specific boundaries. She has been hounding me about my Christmas plans and

seeing this thread made me think of it.

I only remember one good Christmas ever. I don't know if I was too young to

remember the horrors that occurred but it was pleasant the year I was 6.

After that things went very far down hill.

At age 7 she got me drunk on champagne and watched me stumble around and feel

ill while she laughed and spun me in circles.

At age 8 she was just gone with no rational explanation.

I don't remember a few years

When I was 11 she bought my siblings gifts from the department store and then

bought mine from goodwill. I got about half of the amount they did. I was too

terrified to ask why.

After that year I was forced every Christmas to put the lights on the tree. She

would make me do it myself and then scream at me for the next week about doing

it wrong and ask why I hated her.

I am allergic to 1 kind of live christmas tree. As soon as this was discovered

that was the tree she bought every year. If I didn't help decorate and hang out

in the room with the tree I was being a spoiled brat and if I was in the room my

throat would swell and I would feel awful but the whole time she would call me a

whiney cry baby.

I am trying very hard this year to make Christmas wonderful for my daughter.

Every other year I get so down about it that I don't know if she really enjoys

it. I'm trying to create new traditions for our family and hopefully good

memories for her.

Does anyone have things they do to make new memories that are good about the

holidays?

Riah

>

> I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had to

> pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> our house. No one could win.

>

> Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas eve

> night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

>

> My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> they weren't normal).

>

December 15, 2009

(((((((Riah))))))))

What an amazingly sadistic monster your nada was/is. Good Lord! It makes

me...ooooo, want to just punch her face into a pulp for treating her own child

so badly. I can't get over it: blatant favoritism, making your child drunk

enough to vomit, repeatedly forcing her into contact with a known allergen and

then making fun of the (potentially life-threatening) allergic reaction?!?

AAaaaugh!!!

Grrrrr!!! That is criminal child abuse in my opinion; she should have done jail

time for that.

You should be honored for your selflessness in trying to make good Christmas

memories for your own child even though it is painful for you. You are a true

good mother: you are being the good mother you deserved to have and should have

had, but didn't get.

Your child must love you very much, and bless you.

-Annie

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > our house. No one could win.

> >

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> >

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > they weren't normal).

> >

December 15, 2009

Just beacause a woman goes to a labor and gives birth to a child that doesn't

make her a " MOM " automatically in a true sense. Motherhood is earned

throughÂ unconditional love, caring and understanding.

Subject: Re: Care to share Christmas memories of being a

BPD's child?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Received: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 2:21 PM

Â

(((((((Riah) )))))))

What an amazingly sadistic monster your nada was/is. Good Lord! It makes

me...ooooo, want to just punch her face into a pulp for treating her own child

so badly. I can't get over it: blatant favoritism, making your child drunk

enough to vomit, repeatedly forcing her into contact with a known allergen and

then making fun of the (potentially life-threatening) allergic reaction?!?

AAaaaugh!!!

Grrrrr!!! That is criminal child abuse in my opinion; she should have done jail

time for that.

You should be honored for your selflessness in trying to make good Christmas

memories for your own child even though it is painful for you. You are a true

good mother: you are being the good mother you deserved to have and should have

had, but didn't get.

Your child must love you very much, and bless you.

-Annie

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had to

> > pack up and travel to my grandmother' s and complain if relatives came to

> > our house. No one could win.

> >

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> >

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > they weren't normal).

> >

December 15, 2009

Wow Riah, this is very abusive. I'm sorry that your holidays were filled with

such trauma. What mother (oh, no " mother " , more like a nada) would get her kid

drunk and laugh? Bring in a tree that your child is allergic to? These stories

are heartbreaking.

I'm glad you are making new memories with your child. That is the one thing

having a nada teaches us, how to create new happy memories.

My nada wasn't truly abusive during the holidays. She was just cruel. My gifts

to other people were never good enough. She'd ask to see them, inspect them, and

snub her nose at them.

The gifts I gave to her were never good enough. She'd tell me what was wrong

with what I gave her. Eventually she started buying her own gifts and I'd give

her money and take them and wrap them. At the time I thought this made me feel

good. Afterall, I was getting her a nice gift and she liked it, right?

Every Christmas day after unwrapping presents and doing the Christmas thing, I'd

feel deeply depressed and exhausted. I hated that Christmas afternoon feeling.

Last year, I was NC. For the FIRST time in my heart on Christmas day I felt joy

in my heart during and AFTER the present opening with DH and kids. I then

realized because nada wasn't hoovering and snickering and making " is that ALL

you got for them? Do you think they will really LIKE that? " comments to take

the smile off my face. I now realize, gosh, 30 years later, it was about her

deflating my happiness. Even as a young child I remember trying to pick out the

perfect gift for her, trying so damn hard. As an adult, she bashed every gift I

gave DH and kids. Like i was some loser who couldn't do anything right. That

is how she wanted me to feel, and I DID it.

So the holiday memories aren't joyous. Reading stories here, they could be a

lot worse, but it is sad that nadas even use holidays to try to get us to hate

ourselves. Any ounce of joy we try to feel gets taken from us.

Like I said in another post, just wake me on Jan 2nd.

> > >

> > > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have

a

> > > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > > our house. No one could win.

> > >

> > > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv

from

> > > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go

home.

> > > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> > >

> > > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care

how

> > > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > > they weren't normal).

> > >

December 15, 2009

exactly !! nadas are our mothers, because they did give birth to us, but

they are NOT moms !! I reserve that name for loving individulas like my

aunt who taught me so much more about life than nada ever could. My aunt

wanted to spend time with me, wanted to be my mom !!

Jackie

Just beacause a woman goes to a labor and gives birth to a child that

doesn't make her a " MOM " automatically in a true sense. Motherhood is

earned through unconditional love, caring and understanding.

December 15, 2009

>>does anyone have things they do to make new memories that are good about the

holidays?<<

I've been working on this. In particular, I've discovered that what I need to

do...what works for me...is to create traditions that don't require the

presence/involvement of other people. Not that I don't want that...but I've

learned (as I'm sure many of us have) that just because some other family

includes me in their holiday for a few years doesn't mean that I will always be

a part of that celebration. That probably comes out wrong...I always seem to

have multiple invitations from people willing to welcome me in for the holiday

since they know I'm not about to spend it with my FOO...but those invitations

vary from year to year.

Since I feel like I *need* tradition, I find it in other ways. I like to

bake...so I bake cookies each year. I have a secret recipe fudge that I like to

make (and no, I'm not sharing my recipe). I don't always have the same people

to give it to, but the tradition lies in the making of the goodies not in the

list of recipients. I set aside a whole day...I don't accept invitations or

anything for that day. Once in awhile I'll get a year where my weekends just

book up with things I do not want to miss, so I'll take a day off work to be my

baking day.

My other tradition is Midnight Mass. I always go to Midnight Mass. I used to

always sing...this will be the first year in 14 years that I'm not part of the

choir. But Midnight Mass is *my* tradition and it doesn't depend on other

people to participate...there's always a midnight mass somewhere. Even when I

lived in a third world country, there was a midnight Mass (and I was even able

to sing for that, too!!)

Those are the big things, I do other things that do involve people. I'm a

professional nanny and several years ago I discovered that the BEST SANTA EVER

is at a museum in our area. So, every year, no matter what family I'm working

for, I make it a point to take the children to that museum to see Santa. This

is the third year I've done it with my current employer...they even bought

special outfits just for THIS Santa trip (the parents already took the kids to a

Santa closer to home). We went today, actually...and such a great memory to see

my shyest charge willing to give Santa a hug and kiss (of her own volition).

That's a picture I'm framing, I think!

Like many here...I don't really have any good memories of the holidays growing

up, or even as adult unless I spent the holiday with people other than my FOO.

While there were good moments in them, mostly it was a time of extreme anxiety

for me because I knew the eruptions of rage were coming even if I didn't know

what would set them off this time. One memorable Christmas, I got " thrown out

of the family " and all my things were thrown out into the snowy front yard with

me.

Even with all that...there are moments it sneaks up on me, that breathtaking

grief and sadness. I give it its time and then move on...it is tempting to let

nada's voice reign in my head with " You don't deserve a happy holiday, you

brought this on yourself, I warned you this would happen... " She sneaks in too,

sometimes. But I try to replace it with " I feel sad or griefstricken because it

is an appropriate and understandable reaction to the trauma caused by my mother.

I am allowed to feel this way, and I am allowed to work through it to happier

times. "

It's an ongoing struggle, but if I work at overcoming it I find it gets a little

easier each year.

Ninera

>

> Subject: Re: Care to share Christmas memories of being a

BPD's child?

> To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Date: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 6:45 PM

> I know I've been MIA lately, mostly

> that's because things with Nada are quiet. I avoid most of

> her phone calls but I do talk to her every now and then with

> very specific boundaries. She has been hounding me about my

> Christmas plans and seeing this thread made me think of it.

>

> I only remember one good Christmas ever. I don't know if I

> was too young to remember the horrors that occurred but it

> was pleasant the year I was 6.

> After that things went very far down hill.

> At age 7 she got me drunk on champagne and watched me

> stumble around and feel ill while she laughed and spun me in

> circles.

> At age 8 she was just gone with no rational explanation.

> I don't remember a few years

> When I was 11 she bought my siblings gifts from the

> department store and then bought mine from goodwill. I got

> about half of the amount they did. I was too terrified to

> ask why.

> After that year I was forced every Christmas to put the

> lights on the tree. She would make me do it myself and then

> scream at me for the next week about doing it wrong and ask

> why I hated her.

> I am allergic to 1 kind of live christmas tree. As soon as

> this was discovered that was the tree she bought every year.

> If I didn't help decorate and hang out in the room with the

> tree I was being a spoiled brat and if I was in the room my

> throat would swell and I would feel awful but the whole time

> she would call me a whiney cry baby.

>

> I am trying very hard this year to make Christmas wonderful

> for my daughter. Every other year I get so down about it

> that I don't know if she really enjoys it. I'm trying to

> create new traditions for our family and hopefully good

> memories for her.

>

> Does anyone have things they do to make new memories that

> are good about the holidays?

>

> Riah

>

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted

> memories you mightÂ

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother,

> causing drama at theÂ

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and

> arguments and have a

> > bigÂ blow out with other family members. She

> would complain because we had to

> > pack upÂ and travel to my grandmother's and

> complain if relatives came to

> > our house. NoÂ one could win.

> >Â

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my

> dad to my house (280Â

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida

> around 6 pm christmas eve

> >Â night and left before noon christmas day...she

> refused to turn the tv from

> > CNNÂ and kept saying her pipes were going to

> freeze and she had to go home.

> > When IÂ got mad because they were leaving, she

> accused me of not caring

> > that they wereÂ going to 'lose everything they

> had' if their pipes froze.Â One,

> > they liveÂ IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a

> whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn theÂ light to their pump house for

> them if need be.

> >Â

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for

> being such a weirdoÂ

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter,

> though. She didn't care how

> > sheÂ affected anyone else...my son cried for

> hours after they left because

> > he was soÂ excited they were coming (he wasn't

> around them enough to know

> > they weren'tÂ normal).

> >Â

> >

December 15, 2009

On my first year of Christmas, pictures I do see... my Nada's crap under a tree

(and little for the rest of us.)

On my second year of Christmas, pictures I do see... no wait, Nada was in Miami

having an affair.

On my third year of Christmas, I guess it would be, Nada left my bio-dad - she

was bored.

On my fourth year of Christmas, pictures I do see... grandparents

overcompensating while Nada has an affair while working at the church as a

preschool teacher following the divorce.

On my fifth year of Christmas, memories are faint but real... we're living in a

tent in Hole, Wyoming... in December.

On my sixth year of Christams, I have no memories... I know that's when we lived

with a drug dealer... and his brother.

On my seventh year of Christmas, homeless we were again... living in a guys

house... in the garage... with more drug dealers... and his mother.

On my eighth year of Christmas, memories spotty but true... living in the

ghetto, with a drug dealer, being molested, most presents are stolen goods...

and visiting Nada's ex-boyfriend in L.A. County Jail.

On my nineth year of Christmas, no memories at all.

On my tenth year of Christmas, new school in an other state...again. That

brings the total to 12 so far...

***

Ok... y'all get the point...I can't go much further... I'll disassociate.

So yeah, Happy Holiday's and all that childhood brings!

Amen for healing in adulthood!

Lynnette

>

> I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had to

> pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> our house. No one could win.

>

> Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas eve

> night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

>

> My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> they weren't normal).

>

December 15, 2009

Did anyone else have a problem with nada and music? On Christmas Day it was

very important for nada to try and force me to listen to music she knew I

despised. She would put on a cd and blare it throughout the house. It really

bothered me that my brother--who WAS A MUSICIAN--would not support me on it. He

would just be all split white and say oh, let her play her music, Charlie. So I

would be forced to pose as the 'bad guy' because I just couldn't stand the

stuff. I mean I REALLY couldn't stand it. (She had odious, odious, odious

taste in music.) This NEVER got old for her. She tried it literally every

year. It was a win-win for her, because if I listened to the music, she got to

make me truly miserable, and if I complained and turned it off, she got to look

all childishly sad at how mean, judgmental and scrooge-ish I looked, especially

in front of my split white brother and the various people there (for it seems we

always had some or other new person there--someone's date or guest or new

husband). This may not sound like the worst thing we've posted about on the

board, certainly it's not technically the worst thing *I* have listed but it may

be the one that bothers me the most. She knew that it really, really bothered

me--and she LOVED it! And before I knew about bpd I JUST couldn't make sense of

it. She knew how much it disturbed me, why would she keep trying, year after

year? It's amazing that all those years, before I knew of bpd, I just couldn't

fathom that she would *want* to make me uncomfortable. I would jus think she

wanted 'her' music, THAT bad--which is absurd because she is not at all a music

fan and never listens to the stuff. (Which explains her hideous and did I say

HIDEOUS taste?) Well, now she can play whatever she wants for the rest of her

life!! And noone else cares what music she puts on, so she will lose that

particular little evil thrill. --Charlie

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > our house. No one could win.

> >

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> >

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > they weren't normal).

> >

December 15, 2009

Hmmm and I think one other thing nada's love to do is to provoke some kind of

emotion in the other person, preferably negative. If you ignore it meaning not

showing her being annoyed she might stop. Nada's need the confirmation for their

good taste in anything, music, food, etc., and if you confront them they'll hate

your guts, cause in their mistakenly wired brain your are " offending " them or

" hurting " them byt simply not approving what they like. It's weired but it's

true.Â

Subject: Re: Care to share Christmas memories of being a

BPD's child?

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Received: Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 7:39 PM

Â

Did anyone else have a problem with nada and music? On Christmas Day it was very

important for nada to try and force me to listen to music she knew I despised.

She would put on a cd and blare it throughout the house. It really bothered me

that my brother--who WAS A MUSICIAN--would not support me on it. He would just

be all split white and say oh, let her play her music, Charlie. So I would be

forced to pose as the 'bad guy' because I just couldn't stand the stuff. I mean

I REALLY couldn't stand it. (She had odious, odious, odious taste in music.)

This NEVER got old for her. She tried it literally every year. It was a win-win

for her, because if I listened to the music, she got to make me truly miserable,

and if I complained and turned it off, she got to look all childishly sad at how

mean, judgmental and scrooge-ish I looked, especially in front of my split white

brother and the various people there (for it seems we always had some or other

new person

there--someone' s date or guest or new husband). This may not sound like the

worst thing we've posted about on the board, certainly it's not technically the

worst thing *I* have listed but it may be the one that bothers me the most. She

knew that it really, really bothered me--and she LOVED it! And before I knew

about bpd I JUST couldn't make sense of it. She knew how much it disturbed me,

why would she keep trying, year after year? It's amazing that all those years,

before I knew of bpd, I just couldn't fathom that she would *want* to make me

uncomfortable. I would jus think she wanted 'her' music, THAT bad--which is

absurd because she is not at all a music fan and never listens to the stuff.

(Which explains her hideous and did I say HIDEOUS taste?) Well, now she can play

whatever she wants for the rest of her life!! And noone else cares what music

she puts on, so she will lose that particular little evil thrill. --Charlie

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had to

> > pack up and travel to my grandmother' s and complain if relatives came to

> > our house. No one could win.

> >

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> >

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > they weren't normal).

> >

December 15, 2009

Sitting and feeling the pain, acknowledging that the pain did happen and I have

a choice about what I do and feel today are VERY empowering.

thank you, c

> Even with all that...there are moments it sneaks up on me, that breathtaking

grief and sadness. I give it its time and then move on...it is tempting to let

nada's voice reign in my head with " You don't deserve a happy holiday, you

brought this on yourself, I warned you this would happen... " She sneaks in too,

sometimes. But I try to replace it with " I feel sad or griefstricken because it

is an appropriate and understandable reaction to the trauma caused by my mother.

I am allowed to feel this way, and I am allowed to work through it to happier

times. "

>

> It's an ongoing struggle, but if I work at overcoming it I find it gets a

little easier each year.

>

> Ninera

December 15, 2009

((((((((Lynnette)))))))))

What a survivor you are. I want to just strangle your nada for putting you

through all that; she should have done jail time for what she did to you and

allowed to happen to you.

-Annie

> >

> > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have a

> > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > our house. No one could win.

> >

> > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv from

> > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go home.

> > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> >

> > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care how

> > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > they weren't normal).

> >

December 16, 2009

my nada and fada just never listened to music..and never understood why I

wanted to...drives in the car were especially hard...8-10 hours with the

radio OFF ( the radio was never on in the car, ever) they listened to the

news on the radio in the morning and then turned it off

Jackie

Did anyone else have a problem with nada and music? On Christmas Day it was

very important for nada to try and force me to listen to music she knew I

despised. She would put on a cd and blare it throughout the house. It

really bothered me that my brother--who WAS A MUSICIAN--would not support me

on it. He would just be all split white and say oh, let her play her music,

Charlie. So I would be forced to pose as the 'bad guy' because I just

couldn't stand the stuff. I mean I REALLY couldn't stand it. (She had

odious, odious, odious taste in music.) This NEVER got old for her. She

tried it literally every year. It was a win-win for her, because if I

listened to the music, she got to make me truly miserable, and if I

complained and turned it off, she got to look all childishly sad at how

mean, judgmental and scrooge-ish I looked, especially in front of my split

white brother and the various people there (for it seems we always had some

or other new person there--someone's date or guest or new husband). This

may not sound like the worst thing we've posted about on the board,

certainly it's not technically the worst thing *I* have listed but it may be

the one that bothers me the most. She knew that it really, really bothered

me--and she LOVED it! And before I knew about bpd I JUST couldn't make

sense of it. She knew how much it disturbed me, why would she keep trying,

year after year? It's amazing that all those years, before I knew of bpd, I

just couldn't fathom that she would *want* to make me uncomfortable. I

would jus think she wanted 'her' music, THAT bad--which is absurd because

she is not at all a music fan and never listens to the stuff. (Which

explains her hideous and did I say HIDEOUS taste?) Well, now she can play

whatever she wants for the rest of her life!! And noone else cares what

music she puts on, so she will lose that particular little evil

hrill. --Charlie

December 16, 2009

Mine are milder than you all's. Lynette, you were so unprotected it

makes my stomach wrench. Like me, you use laughter to lighten the

heaviness. I finally see someone who compensates even more than I do!

My one memory is this one: One Christmas, when my bro was 1 or 2

years old, my parents had a big blow out fight. My dad retreated

into our family room with the door closed, refusing to participate in

the family event. We tried to play the piano and be cheerful, but we

kids weren't fooled. That Christmas that my best gift was one my mom

thought I needed. A violin case for the rattly violin that came with

her to the US from her childhood in war-torn Germany. (I peeked under

the wrap and so I guess I got what I deserved LOL) I loved music, but

the violin was never my instrument. Mom would best have encouraged me

with voice, but she did that only through church. (That mission--to

have me glorify God with my voice, toppled with a heavy thud, the

day she kicked me on the floor of the passenger seat all the way to

the choir practice... Perhaps she too could not live with the irony.)

That is really my landmark Christmas. The ones I came home for (just

twice) as an adult were quite joyless and had no little spiritual

meaning either. I always liked seeing my bro, but I was I guess, a

big threat to nada's reign of terror, so there was big relief when I

went back to college.

It does take some work to redeem Christmases memories like this! In

fact, before kids, my DH and I would find something really outside the

box to do at Christmastime. It helps that he was raised Baha'i. With

a child, I struggle each year. And vow to make it happier, or at

least more peaceful each year. I suspect this year will be no

different. But each year I learn something and usually find a new way

to set myself free and find peace with the ambivalent feelings.

Christmas is my son's favorite holiday so far. I do wish it were not

so commercially driven, but am accepting that there are things I can

do to make the holiday OURs.

Me, I am happiest with Thanksgiving, because it is the perfect holiday

for friends.

Maybe any holiday that you can bring friends into, has the potential

to transform FOO-ey memories.

Best,

December 16, 2009

Well, it's not my Nada who is musically impaired - she's a gifted singer, and

she likes almost any kind of music as long as she can sing along (but hey, who

doesn't like to sing at Christmas?) And we have a wide-ranging collection of

holiday music, from Gregorian chants to Handel to the Blind Boys of Alabama to

Elvis. So we're probably annoying to other people, ourselves. But my

brother-in-law has this ONE Mannheim Steamroller Christmas CD that he puts on a

continuous loop every year, without fail. Even if we bring our entire box of

Christmas CD's, there's no way he'll play anything else because our music is

" weird " (he says). There's nothing inherently wrong with Mannheim Steamroller,

I guess, but because I associate this one CD with BIL and chaotic Christmases

spent with his passel of hideous kids, the sound of that CD turns my stomach. I

silently scream, " Aieeee! Mannheim Steamroller! " and flee whatever mall or

elevator I'm in.

> > >

> > > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have

a

> > > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > > our house. No one could win.

> > >

> > > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv

from

> > > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go

home.

> > > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> > >

> > > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care

how

> > > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > > they weren't normal).

> > >

December 16, 2009

" Someone who compensates evenm more than I do... " I gotta admit, I actually

laughed out loud when I read that.... geez almighty... ain't it the truth!

I always minimize the reality of all this... until I write it out here... then

it hits like a tidal wave... my job is to wait calmly for the waters to

recede... I guess it really was that bad.

Lynnette

>

> Mine are milder than you all's. Lynette, you were so unprotected it

> makes my stomach wrench. Like me, you use laughter to lighten the

> heaviness. I finally see someone who compensates even more than I do!

>

> My one memory is this one: One Christmas, when my bro was 1 or 2

> years old, my parents had a big blow out fight. My dad retreated

> into our family room with the door closed, refusing to participate in

> the family event. We tried to play the piano and be cheerful, but we

> kids weren't fooled. That Christmas that my best gift was one my mom

> thought I needed. A violin case for the rattly violin that came with

> her to the US from her childhood in war-torn Germany. (I peeked under

> the wrap and so I guess I got what I deserved LOL) I loved music, but

> the violin was never my instrument. Mom would best have encouraged me

> with voice, but she did that only through church. (That mission--to

> have me glorify God with my voice, toppled with a heavy thud, the

> day she kicked me on the floor of the passenger seat all the way to

> the choir practice... Perhaps she too could not live with the irony.)

>

> That is really my landmark Christmas. The ones I came home for (just

> twice) as an adult were quite joyless and had no little spiritual

> meaning either. I always liked seeing my bro, but I was I guess, a

> big threat to nada's reign of terror, so there was big relief when I

> went back to college.

>

> It does take some work to redeem Christmases memories like this! In

> fact, before kids, my DH and I would find something really outside the

> box to do at Christmastime. It helps that he was raised Baha'i. With

> a child, I struggle each year. And vow to make it happier, or at

> least more peaceful each year. I suspect this year will be no

> different. But each year I learn something and usually find a new way

> to set myself free and find peace with the ambivalent feelings.

> Christmas is my son's favorite holiday so far. I do wish it were not

> so commercially driven, but am accepting that there are things I can

> do to make the holiday OURs.

>

> Me, I am happiest with Thanksgiving, because it is the perfect holiday

> for friends.

>

> Maybe any holiday that you can bring friends into, has the potential

> to transform FOO-ey memories.

>

> Best,

>

December 16, 2009

Annie, I'm " almost there " in my head to agree with you... However, she says

nothing more than " I made a few mistakes.... " , " MY childhood was horrible and I

was escaping it.... " , " YOUR childhood was just an adventure... "

Yeah.

Lynnette

> > >

> > > I was wondering if you guys would share some distorted memories you might

> > > have surrounding the holidays? I know for my mother, causing drama at the

> > > holidays was her forte. She loved to create issues and arguments and have

a

> > > big blow out with other family members. She would complain because we had

to

> > > pack up and travel to my grandmother's and complain if relatives came to

> > > our house. No one could win.

> > >

> > > Her most recent drama was when I invited her and my dad to my house (280

> > > miles away) for Christmas. She arrived from florida around 6 pm christmas

eve

> > > night and left before noon christmas day...she refused to turn the tv

from

> > > CNN and kept saying her pipes were going to freeze and she had to go

home.

> > > When I got mad because they were leaving, she accused me of not caring

> > > that they were going to 'lose everything they had' if their pipes froze.

One,

> > > they live IN FLORIDA and two, my sister was a whole 20 minutes away and

> > > could go turn the light to their pump house for them if need be.

> > >

> > > My uncle later called me and said he yelled at her for being such a weirdo

> > > about going out of her house. It didn't matter, though. She didn't care

how

> > > she affected anyone else...my son cried for hours after they left because

> > > he was so excited they were coming (he wasn't around them enough to know

> > > they weren't normal).

> > >

December 16, 2009

One insidious type of emotional abuse is called " minimizing. "

The pd individual will minimize the damage they've done when there is no way

that they can outright deny committing a heinous act or saying something cruel

and hateful. Minimizing or trivializing their victim's anguish is a way to

lessen their own culpability.

Its very abusive.

Here's a more detailed explanation of minimizing and gaslighting from an author

identified only as " " , who developed this amazing list of characteristics

of the narcissistic mother:

" 6. She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something she's

done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid imagination " (this is a phrase

commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your experience of their

abuse) that you don't know what you're talking about, or that she has no idea

what you're talking about. She will claim not to remember even very memorable

events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor will she ever acknowledge any

possibility that she might have forgotten. This is an extremely aggressive and

exceptionally infuriating tactic called " gaslighting, " common to abusers of all

kinds. Your perceptions of reality are continually undermined so that you end up

without any confidence in your intuition, your memory or your powers of

reasoning. This makes you a much better victim for the abuser.

Narcissists gaslight routinely. The narcissist will either insinuate or will

tell you outright that you're unstable, otherwise you wouldn't believe such

ridiculous things or be so uncooperative. You're oversensitive. You're imagining

things. You're hysterical. You're completely unreasonable. You're over-reacting,

like you always do. She'll talk to you when you've calmed down and aren't so

irrational. She may even characterize you as being neurotic or psychotic.

Once she's constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of

concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do anything. She

has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her. You've hurt her terribly.

She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She loves you very much and would do

anything to make you happy, but she just doesn't know what to do. You keep

pushing her away when all she wants to do is help you.

She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your obvious

antipathy towards her, implied that it's something fundamentally wrong with you

that makes you angry with her, and undermined your credibility with her

listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so perfectly that no one will

believe you. "

Here's the link to the whole list of characteristics, most of which I find to be

uncannily accurate in describing my nada:

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

>

> Annie, I'm " almost there " in my head to agree with you... However, she says

nothing more than " I made a few mistakes.... " , " MY childhood was horrible and I

was escaping it.... " , " YOUR childhood was just an adventure... "

>

> Yeah.

>

> Lynnette

>

December 16, 2009

Thanks, Annie... well into the end of the first year of therapy did " this "

finally hit...and that " this " had a name... now that I'm almost done with year

two, I realize she'll never ever ever ever ever get it.

Lynnette

> >

> > Annie, I'm " almost there " in my head to agree with you... However, she says

nothing more than " I made a few mistakes.... " , " MY childhood was horrible and I

was escaping it.... " , " YOUR childhood was just an adventure... "

> >

> > Yeah.

> >

> > Lynnette

> >

>

December 16, 2009

this is my nada 100% !!!

Jackie

One insidious type of emotional abuse is called " minimizing. "

The pd individual will minimize the damage they've done when there is no way

that they can outright deny committing a heinous act or saying something

cruel and hateful. Minimizing or trivializing their victim's anguish is a

way to lessen their own culpability.

Its very abusive.

Here's a more detailed explanation of minimizing and gaslighting from an

author identified only as " " , who developed this amazing list of

characteristics of the narcissistic mother:

" 6. She makes you look crazy. If you try to confront her about something

she's done, she'll tell you that you have " a very vivid imagination " (this

is a phrase commonly used by abusers of all sorts to invalidate your

experience of their abuse) that you don't know what you're talking about, or

that she has no idea what you're talking about. She will claim not to

remember even very memorable events, flatly denying they ever happened, nor

will she ever acknowledge any possibility that she might have forgotten.

This is an extremely aggressive and exceptionally infuriating tactic called

" gaslighting, " common to abusers of all kinds. Your perceptions of reality

are continually undermined so that you end up without any confidence in your

intuition, your memory or your powers of reasoning. This makes you a much

better victim for the abuser.

Narcissists gaslight routinely. The narcissist will either insinuate or will

tell you outright that you're unstable, otherwise you wouldn't believe such

ridiculous things or be so uncooperative. You're oversensitive. You're

imagining things. You're hysterical. You're completely unreasonable. You're

over-reacting, like you always do. She'll talk to you when you've calmed

down and aren't so irrational. She may even characterize you as being

neurotic or psychotic.

Once she's constructed these fantasies of your emotional pathologies, she'll

tell others about them, as always, presenting her smears as expressions of

concern and declaring her own helpless victimhood. She didn't do anything.

She has no idea why you're so irrationally angry with her. You've hurt her

terribly. She thinks you may need psychotherapy. She loves you very much and

would do anything to make you happy, but she just doesn't know what to do.

You keep pushing her away when all she wants to do is help you.

She has simultaneously absolved herself of any responsibility for your

obvious antipathy towards her, implied that it's something fundamentally

wrong with you that makes you angry with her, and undermined your

credibility with her listeners. She plays the role of the doting mother so

perfectly that no one will believe you. "

Here's the link to the whole list of characteristics, most of which I find

to be uncannily accurate in describing my nada:

http://sites.google.com/site/harpyschild/

-Annie

December 16, 2009

Wow Annie this is sooo my nada too, wow reading that has made me feel so much

better, my nada contacted me yesterday after me going 8 months no contact, my

sister betrayed me and gave my nada my new telephone number, ive been terrible

all day today, feeling like back at square one again.

How are you.

Love and hugs

x

________________________________

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Sent: Wed, December 16, 2009 4:34:32 PM