Re: Why Nutri-meds works better for some than others...

February 4, 2004

Gentle,,, Good for you.love to play Keno myself.

Shirley

----- Original Message -----

From: gentleone772002

To: , topper2@j... wrote:

> You guys commin to the funeral? Bring chocolate truffles... AND

MOUNTAIN

> DEW!

> ROTFLMAO!!!

Oh gosh that reminds me of my Mom's funeral. She always joked that

she didn't want flowers at her funeral, she wanted a roll of

quarters instead to play the Keno machines in heaven.

So when I flew back to Montana to lay her remains to rest, I brought

that roll of quarters along to make sure she'd be able to plan Keno

in heaven.

I figure she was looking down from heaven and getting a good laugh

from that one.

Gentle

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 11, 2004

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " gentleone772002 "

> That might explain why some of us have such different reactions to

> the nutrimeds...and also might explain why some people seem to need

> more Armour than others. There are many factors that influence

that

> of course, but I think that a person who has a body that uses only

> the T-3 of Armour and throws away the T-4 so to speak will need a

> higher dose in general than a person whose body is able to fully

make

> use of both the t-3 and T-4 in Armour...make any sense to anyone?

>

> Just some thoughts...

>

> Gentle

Gentle...Just how widespread is this belief that Nutri-meds actually

gives you any more than trace amounts of thyroid homrones?? I have

never heard this before except lately on this group and although I

did use it many years ago and had a little help from it when I

couldn't get thyroid, I never believed it to have anything that could

compare to prescription thyroid meds...I even found synthroid

preferable to nutrimeds and I am not a good converter at all. Do many

people believe that is contains hormones??

February 11, 2004

Makes perfect sense to me.... that is why I'm so finicky about my Vitamin

C to boost absorption and the Selenium... Remember I multi-dose

EVERYTHING except calcium, iron and E. So my system gets hits of selenium

with every vitamin chip I take with every meal that I eat, 5 to 7 per

day.. then a larger hit of selenium in addition to that with first

morning meal... evening meal and 9 pm supps....

Anything that is said to be anti thyroid is consumed 30 to 60 minutes

before a thyroid dose.. which are all taken sublingually.... So my system

isnt' without anything at any time during the day.. and for over night...

I take the last dose of thyroid as I'm crawling into bed (unless I forget

like last night!) And I've got that extra dose of selenium (to help with

my over night conversion) that I swallowed at 9 pm....

It confusing, at first... but this method has been the magic for me....

Moods are great, thinking is clear, speech is better, pain levels (unless

I forget to med) are non existent. I am exercising every night before

bed, my modified to do on the bed instead of on the floor - Bedxercises.

I'm also doing five minute upper body mini sets of exercise during the

day now, too. I've just started that this week. When I do a thyroid dose,

that's three of them during the day, the other two are at bed time and

upon waking, I stop and do some simple movements for biceps, triceps,

shoulders and chest.. all stuff that I can do while sitting at the desk..

and in here, just to keep it simple.. I'm using a 20 oz pop bottle filled

with water as my resistance weight...

By the end of the week.. if all is well... I'm gonna start doing Wrist

Curls when I do my adrenals..I dose those 4 times a day now... so a quick

5 minutes when I do those... that will be squeezing in a total of 35

minutes of extra exercise time in every day at the same time that I would

normal just get up and take a quick stretch... You do all know that if

you are keyboarding a lot that you should take a short break every how to

stretch and move around to lube your tendons to reduce carpal tunnel

hazards? I've just taken that a step further.. and not actually do a

quick mini routine... It sure energizes you in body and mind to do

that.... no more stiff achy back or blah moods.. you know how you get

when you start watching the clock and wishing the day would hurry up and

get over with?

I should shush... you get the idea.. if you think you might want to try

it.. go for it.... might make a difference for you too!

Topper ()

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 10:13:06 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> I was thinking about this again. Why is it some of us have had such

> varied reactions to Nutri-meds?

> Then it occured to me - the old debate about those of us who can

> convert T-4 to T-3 as opposed to those of us who apparently can not

> adequately convert T-4 to T-3.

> If someone like Topper, for instance, is able to convert T-4 to T-3

> readily, then small variances in the T-3/T-4 levels of each nutrimed

> tab should not matter. If she is short one day from the med, her

> own

> body will take the T-4 out of storage and convert it into the usable

> form.

> But what if some of us can not convert T-4 into T-3? What if some

> of us rely solely on the T-3 from medicine to help us? If there are

> any

> variances - in the percentage of T-3 to T-4, or potency from pill to

> pill - since we get benefit ONLY from the T-3 portion and the T-4 is

> useless to us - then we will have a real problem.

> Because if what Dr. Derry says is true - if getting some thyroid

> medicine causes your own thyroid to stop producing - then you have a

> situation where your own thyroid isn't producing T-3 anymore, you

> are not getting it from your tissues because you can not convert T-4 to

> T-3 if you are a fibro patient, and so you are totally dependent on a

> constant dose of T-3 from the meds. If one pill or another doesn't

> have quite enough T-3...it feels like a placebo pill and you go

> hypo,

> because your body cannot reach into the stored T-4 to make T-3 to

> make up for it.

> That might explain why some of us have such different reactions to

> the nutrimeds...and also might explain why some people seem to need

> more Armour than others. There are many factors that influence that

> of course, but I think that a person who has a body that uses only

> the T-3 of Armour and throws away the T-4 so to speak will need a

> higher dose in general than a person whose body is able to fully make

> use of both the t-3 and T-4 in Armour...make any sense to anyone?

> Just some thoughts...

> Gentle

February 11, 2004

>

> Gentle...Just how widespread is this belief that Nutri-meds

actually

> gives you any more than trace amounts of thyroid homrones?? I have

> never heard this before except lately on this group and although I

> did use it many years ago and had a little help from it when I

> couldn't get thyroid, I never believed it to have anything that

could

> compare to prescription thyroid meds...I even found synthroid

> preferable to nutrimeds and I am not a good converter at all. Do

many

> people believe that is contains hormones??

Wow..hi, ! Well, to be honest, the first place I learned of

Nutri-meds was on their website. And I read the testimonials and

they sounded so good, so I believed that what I would be getting

would be exactly like Armour only non-prescription.

Then, I came here, and there was a discussion that I read, can't

remember exactly now but something about Nutri-meds being maybe 25%

less strong or something? So then I started thinking, okay, they are

less strong than Armour.

Then I had first a positive reaction, then I reverted back to hypo,

so I didn't know what to think. I was really confused and to be

honest I still am, because here I am trying to figure things out.

I think that it HAS to have more than just a trace, otherwise Topper

wouldn't be doing so well. UNLESS...unless it varies in potency from

batch to batch and Topper got a really " good " batch or

something...don't know if there is ever any way we can know for

certain unless we had a machine to test it.

I just feel kind of confused about why some people don't have much of

a reaction to nutri-meds, but others do well on it, and why some of

us do well at first but then turn hypo again.

If nutri-meds IS fairly weak, it would at least explain why I went

hypo again - patients starting on 1/4 of a grain of Armour, for

instance, often go hypo again if they stay at that dose instead of

raising it at some point.

BUT - if nutri-meds is fairly weak, then Topper wouldn't be doing so

well.

So the whole thing seems like a giant mystery to me! None of us are

crazy, we are all honestly reporting our reactions, and surely there

is a logical reason for all of it, but I don't know what it is.

Argh I'm soooo confused!!!!

Gentle

February 11, 2004

I would like to find out from the fda whether or not otc thyroid of any kind

can have t3 in it...if what I've read is true and what the pharmacist told me

today is true then it cannot...so then what you say Gentle would be absolutely

on the mark as the T4 in the nutrimed would stimulate the production of t3

for those who are able to convert and make a difference for them. Personally I

think dieting so hard when I was young caused or worsened my hypothyroidism and

caused my thryoid to stop the conversion process so the nutrimed caused a 10

lb weight gain and all my hypo symptoms to come back in just 2 weeks.

Blessings,

Loriann

> but I think that a person who has a body that uses only

> the T-3 of Armour and throws away the T-4 so to speak will need a

> higher dose in general than a person whose body is able to fully make

> use of both the t-3 and T-4 in Armour...make any sense to anyone?

>

> Just some thoughts...

>

> Gentle

>

February 11, 2004

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " gentleone772002 "

> If nutri-meds IS fairly weak, it would at least explain why I went

> hypo again - patients starting on 1/4 of a grain of Armour, for

> instance, often go hypo again if they stay at that dose instead of

> raising it at some point.

>

> BUT - if nutri-meds is fairly weak, then Topper wouldn't be doing

so

> well.

>

> So the whole thing seems like a giant mystery to me! None of us

are

> crazy, we are all honestly reporting our reactions, and surely

there

> is a logical reason for all of it, but I don't know what it is.

>

> Argh I'm soooo confused!!!!

>

> Gentle

Yes - I agree with that - it certainly IS a mystery....I always

thought it was the dessicated thyroid gland that gave me the

help...so many of the things I took helped, but some did not...but at

the same time, so many bottles said " this product does not contain

any active thyroid hormone " - I have been hypo probably all my

life...constipated, cold as a child, with maybe 10 lbs extra on me

from puberty on , a good intellect, but a mental dullness, very much

needed my structured life and lots of sleep. Had my son at age 17

(1967) and went to the doctor for some birth control pills afterwards

(didn't like my obstetrician so went to a GP)...he gave me birth

control but also saw my symptoms, which had gotten so much worse

after childbirth...he put me on thyroid...I think it was Armour and I

am pretty sure it was 3 grains, by the size of the pill...right from

the start! 3 grains...my life opened up!! My eyes opened up!! I

felt alive and very happy and full of life for the first time ever!

I was able to work and breeze thru a divorce when the s.o.b. I was

married to wanted out of the marriage, went back to school and took

some college classes, got a second job (both very physical jobs)- so

I got a cute, muscle-bound little figure....went to mortuary

college..LOL - got married again at age 23 and my old doctor

died....testing came into being around that time, and they actually

told me I didn't need thyroid and doctors refused to give it to me!!

I became pregnant soon after I was taken off (they are damn lucky my

baby was healthy) and I went thru a horrible one year long post-

partum depression, weight gain, and inability to function period of

time where all my muscles ached and I had terrible hypoglycemia. I

did yoga for a couple hours every day and tried to eliminate sugar

and take vitamins...this brought me out of it, somewhat....the next

20 years was spent looking for another doctor who would prescribe

thyroid based on my symptoms, taking vitamins, and living a very

unhappy depressed life...I was told over and over I didn't need

thyroid (I bgan to wonder if it had ben a 'dream' that I was ever on

thryoid!!)...given several anti-depressants, although I kept telling

doctor that I was not emotionally depressed, but more that my

hopelessness was directly related to my lack of energy and how much I

could accomplish in a day...I was dx'd with rheumatoid arthritis at

age 26, flunked a 5 hour glucose tolerance test in record time (2

hours, glucose down to 30) and almost went into seizures at the

hospital (age 25)- (previous to my getting married I had been going

with a doctor who told me my adrenals were shot - I had low b/p,

dizziness and other symptoms of it...so I remembered this and kept

reading up on what I could do for myself to get stronger)..in my 20's

I was on the low blood sugar diet (high protein, few carbs) and that

and mega doses of vitamins helped, but I still needed the thyroid I

was denied. At least what I was doing gave me a little energy and

better frame of mind. In 1984, I succumbed to chronic fatigue and

finally last year got rid of that...in the 80's and 90's while I kept

searching for a doctor to put me back on thyroid, I would take

adreanl support glandulars and thyroid glandulars whenever i could

afford them...it all helped...somewhat. Finally I found a Chinese

doctor in '90 who helped me...I felt fantastic with his herbs and

accupressure and felt as good as when I was on thyroid, except I

still had trouble losing weight and staying up past about 6 PM....it

got too expense to continue beyond about 1-1/2 years with him...I

used to have to go to him 1-2 times weekly at about $%150. per

week...in '92, a friend of mine gave me some of her synthroid and it

helped me so much...later that year I finally found my first holistic

doctor who put me on Armour...(I had found that if I had been on some

kind of thryoid doctor might have been more inclined to let me stay

on, which is why I finally took some of my friend's synthroid.)...the

holistic MD wanted to put me on Armour, but I was so afraid..I was a

little better on synthroid, and so he refilled that script (.2

synthroid) for me...and later added 50mcg cytomel which helped even

more...I was feeling better, but meanwhile this certain chronic

fatigue organism which is a bacteria that acts like a retrovirus took

over my body to the point that I was sleeping all but about an hour

a day...the doctor finally put me on 4grains Armour and promised if I

didn't like it better than synthroid, I could go back...well..of

course I loved it!! This was about 11 years ago...I have since had a

detour where I had to go thru a 5 year protocol- a cocktail of

antiboitics(completed last Dec- I am rid of it) to rid myself of this

c.pneumoniae bacteria, because it was multiplying in my body and

taking over my organs rapidly now...they said it would have led to

death...anyway...my point being...after Armour was taken away from

me..I got rheumatoid arthritis (now gone), fibromyalgia (gone),

constant throat ear and sinus infections (no more)succumbed to the CF

organism (gone) and lost 20-30 years of my life...now in my 50's I am

better than I was in my 20's 30's and way better than in my

40's...this is why now I am at the point of strengthening my adrenals

and tweeking to the best possible health...I hate to see how life

would have been without the 30 years of vitamins and glandulars and

sugar free living.

February 11, 2004

Topper is not the only one that has done well on Nutri-meds.

I am having excellent results on them too, and self-treating is helping me

more than years of " here's an anti-depressant " , " get off your lazy butt " ,low

calorie diets and diet pills,etc...........

The doctors need to have ome learning experiences with those who have TD!

ThyroFeisty doing a mini-soapbox oratory

Re: Why Nutri-meds works better for some

than others...

> >

> > Gentle...Just how widespread is this belief that Nutri-meds

> actually

> > gives you any more than trace amounts of thyroid homrones?? I have

> > never heard this before except lately on this group and although I

> > did use it many years ago and had a little help from it when I

> > couldn't get thyroid, I never believed it to have anything that

> could

> > compare to prescription thyroid meds...I even found synthroid

> > preferable to nutrimeds and I am not a good converter at all. Do

> many

> > people believe that is contains hormones??

>

> Wow..hi, ! Well, to be honest, the first place I learned of

> Nutri-meds was on their website. And I read the testimonials and

> they sounded so good, so I believed that what I would be getting

> would be exactly like Armour only non-prescription.

>

> Then, I came here, and there was a discussion that I read, can't

> remember exactly now but something about Nutri-meds being maybe 25%

> less strong or something? So then I started thinking, okay, they are

> less strong than Armour.

>

> Then I had first a positive reaction, then I reverted back to hypo,

> so I didn't know what to think. I was really confused and to be

> honest I still am, because here I am trying to figure things out.

>

> I think that it HAS to have more than just a trace, otherwise Topper

> wouldn't be doing so well. UNLESS...unless it varies in potency from

> batch to batch and Topper got a really " good " batch or

> something...don't know if there is ever any way we can know for

> certain unless we had a machine to test it.

>

> I just feel kind of confused about why some people don't have much of

> a reaction to nutri-meds, but others do well on it, and why some of

> us do well at first but then turn hypo again.

>

> If nutri-meds IS fairly weak, it would at least explain why I went

> hypo again - patients starting on 1/4 of a grain of Armour, for

> instance, often go hypo again if they stay at that dose instead of

> raising it at some point.

>

> BUT - if nutri-meds is fairly weak, then Topper wouldn't be doing so

> well.

>

> So the whole thing seems like a giant mystery to me! None of us are

> crazy, we are all honestly reporting our reactions, and surely there

> is a logical reason for all of it, but I don't know what it is.

>

> Argh I'm soooo confused!!!!

>

> Gentle

>

February 11, 2004

> Topper is not the only one that has done well on Nutri-meds.

> I am having excellent results on them too, and self-treating is

helping me

> more than years of " here's an anti-depressant " , " get off your lazy

butt " ,low

> calorie diets and diet pills,etc...........

> The doctors need to have ome learning experiences with those who

have TD!

LOL! Hey, , it's great to have you back!!!

Gentle

P.S. But isn't it confusing how we all have different reactions? I

just keep thinking there is something different with our chemistries,

etc. or some logical reason...

February 11, 2004

Oh, , (((HUGS))) jeez your story brought tears to my eyes. I am

almost the age you are so I could imagine myself in your place, going

through all of that, not being believed - some of it I've even

experienced a bit myself, like the weird diseases (IC for me) and the

doctors who tell you it's all in your head.

The most awful thing would be to have the meds, feel better, then

have them taken away from you. That is unbearably cruel. And for so

many years! When are these #$%@ doctors going to LISTEN to us

patients and not be so stubborn about the TSH test or lab

results???? I had a doctor tell me once " symptoms don't matter, only

test results " and I thought, well, symptoms might not matter to YOU

doctor, but they sure matter to ME!!!

How do we change things? I guess it helps we are out here speaking

publicly about it...I wish I knew of other things we could do to make

doctors listen. I don't want those coming up after us, to suffer

like we did.

I was in the hospital at 17 with a suicide attempt. I just read one

doc believes every case of teenage depression ought to be considered

for hypothyroid - that that is the main cause of depression in

someone so young. I think he is right. What my life might have been

like if only my hypo had been treated way back then and

continually...like you I have lost too many years. Well, let's look

to our future, a future that god willing (insh'allah like they say in

Egypt) will be better than the past.

Gentle

February 11, 2004

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " gentleone772002 " like

you I have lost too many years. Well, let's look

> to our future, a future that god willing (insh'allah like they say

in

> Egypt) will be better than the past.

>

> Gentle

Yes. we need to hope. It's not as though we just sat there and felt

sorry for ourselves, either...where would we have been without doing

all we could do for ourselves during those years? Pretty darn

frustrating!

February 11, 2004

(((((((Gentle)))))))))

Do you have a reference for that doctor and depression in young people?

Thank you for the welcome home!

Hugs

Feisty(ThyroFeisty)

Re: Why Nutri-meds works better for some

than others...

> Oh, , (((HUGS))) jeez your story brought tears to my eyes. I am

> almost the age you are so I could imagine myself in your place, going

> through all of that, not being believed - some of it I've even

> experienced a bit myself, like the weird diseases (IC for me) and the

> doctors who tell you it's all in your head.

>

> The most awful thing would be to have the meds, feel better, then

> have them taken away from you. That is unbearably cruel. And for so

> many years! When are these #$%@ doctors going to LISTEN to us

> patients and not be so stubborn about the TSH test or lab

> results???? I had a doctor tell me once " symptoms don't matter, only

> test results " and I thought, well, symptoms might not matter to YOU

> doctor, but they sure matter to ME!!!

>

> How do we change things? I guess it helps we are out here speaking

> publicly about it...I wish I knew of other things we could do to make

> doctors listen. I don't want those coming up after us, to suffer

> like we did.

>

> I was in the hospital at 17 with a suicide attempt. I just read one

> doc believes every case of teenage depression ought to be considered

> for hypothyroid - that that is the main cause of depression in

> someone so young. I think he is right. What my life might have been

> like if only my hypo had been treated way back then and

> continually...like you I have lost too many years. Well, let's look

> to our future, a future that god willing (insh'allah like they say in

> Egypt) will be better than the past.

>

> Gentle

>

February 11, 2004

Wow....

Congrats for making it long enough to get the right stuff, ..gosh it

sucks to be ignored by docs..I went down hill every year and all anyone

could say was fat, lazy irresponsible, as I continued to get worse and

all along it was being undermedicated on Synthroid... then no meds at

all....

Topper ()

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 15:06:48 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> Yes - I agree with that - it certainly IS a mystery....I always

> thought it was the dessicated thyroid gland that gave me the

> help...so many of the things I took helped, but some did not...but

> at

> the same time, so many bottles said " this product does not contain

> any active thyroid hormone " - I have been hypo probably all my

> life...constipated, cold as a child, with maybe 10 lbs extra on me

> from puberty on , a good intellect, but a mental dullness, very much

>

> needed my structured life and lots of sleep. Had my son at age 17

> (1967) and went to the doctor for some birth control pills

> afterwards

> (didn't like my obstetrician so went to a GP)...he gave me birth

> control but also saw my symptoms, which had gotten so much worse

> after childbirth...he put me on thyroid...I think it was Armour and I

> am pretty sure it was 3 grains, by the size of the pill...right from

> the start! 3 grains...my life opened up!! My eyes opened up!! I

> felt alive and very happy and full of life for the first time ever!

> I was able to work and breeze thru a divorce when the s.o.b. I was

> married to wanted out of the marriage, went back to school and took

> some college classes, got a second job (both very physical jobs)- so

> I got a cute, muscle-bound little figure....went to mortuary

> college..LOL - got married again at age 23 and my old doctor

> died....testing came into being around that time, and they actually

> told me I didn't need thyroid and doctors refused to give it to me!!

> I became pregnant soon after I was taken off (they are damn lucky my

> baby was healthy) and I went thru a horrible one year long post-

> partum depression, weight gain, and inability to function period of

> time where all my muscles ached and I had terrible hypoglycemia. I

> did yoga for a couple hours every day and tried to eliminate sugar

> and take vitamins...this brought me out of it, somewhat....the next

> 20 years was spent looking for another doctor who would prescribe

> thyroid based on my symptoms, taking vitamins, and living a very

> unhappy depressed life...I was told over and over I didn't need

> thyroid (I bgan to wonder if it had ben a 'dream' that I was ever on

> thryoid!!)...given several anti-depressants, although I kept telling

> doctor that I was not emotionally depressed, but more that my

> hopelessness was directly related to my lack of energy and how much

> I could accomplish in a day...I was dx'd with rheumatoid arthritis at

> age 26, flunked a 5 hour glucose tolerance test in record time (2

> hours, glucose down to 30) and almost went into seizures at the

> hospital (age 25)- (previous to my getting married I had been going

> with a doctor who told me my adrenals were shot - I had low b/p,

> dizziness and other symptoms of it...so I remembered this and kept

> reading up on what I could do for myself to get stronger)..in my 20's

> I was on the low blood sugar diet (high protein, few carbs) and that

> and mega doses of vitamins helped, but I still needed the thyroid I

> was denied. At least what I was doing gave me a little energy and

> better frame of mind. In 1984, I succumbed to chronic fatigue and

> finally last year got rid of that...in the 80's and 90's while I kept

> searching for a doctor to put me back on thyroid, I would take

> adreanl support glandulars and thyroid glandulars whenever i could

> afford them...it all helped...somewhat. Finally I found a Chinese

> doctor in '90 who helped me...I felt fantastic with his herbs and

> accupressure and felt as good as when I was on thyroid, except I

> still had trouble losing weight and staying up past about 6 PM....it

> got too expense to continue beyond about 1-1/2 years with him...I

> used to have to go to him 1-2 times weekly at about $%150. per

> week...in '92, a friend of mine gave me some of her synthroid and it

> helped me so much...later that year I finally found my first holistic

> doctor who put me on Armour...(I had found that if I had been on

> some

> kind of thryoid doctor might have been more inclined to let me stay

> on, which is why I finally took some of my friend's synthroid.)...the

> holistic MD wanted to put me on Armour, but I was so afraid..I was a

> little better on synthroid, and so he refilled that script (.2

> synthroid) for me...and later added 50mcg cytomel which helped even

> more...I was feeling better, but meanwhile this certain chronic

> fatigue organism which is a bacteria that acts like a retrovirus took

> over my body to the point that I was sleeping all but about an hour

> a day...the doctor finally put me on 4grains Armour and promised if

> I didn't like it better than synthroid, I could go back...well..of

> course I loved it!! This was about 11 years ago...I have since had a

> detour where I had to go thru a 5 year protocol- a cocktail of

> antiboitics(completed last Dec- I am rid of it) to rid myself of this

> c.pneumoniae bacteria, because it was multiplying in my body and

> taking over my organs rapidly now...they said it would have led to

> death...anyway...my point being...after Armour was taken away from

> me..I got rheumatoid arthritis (now gone), fibromyalgia (gone),

> constant throat ear and sinus infections (no more)succumbed to the

> CF

> organism (gone) and lost 20-30 years of my life...now in my 50's I

> am better than I was in my 20's 30's and way better than in my

> 40's...this is why now I am at the point of strengthening my adrenals

> and tweeking to the best possible health...I hate to see how life

> would have been without the 30 years of vitamins and glandulars and

> sugar free living.

February 11, 2004

> (((((((Gentle)))))))))

> Do you have a reference for that doctor and depression in young

people?

> Thank you for the welcome home!

> Hugs

> Feisty(ThyroFeisty)

Hi, ThyroFeisty, I tried to look again and I can't find it now

But I'll keep looking for it. It took me a day or two to find that

think about beta blockers and Dr. Lowe and thyroid but I eventually

found it again so I hope to find this one again too...

Gentle

February 11, 2004

But if it's whole raw desiccated thyroid, just as Armour is..it's even

processed the same way from what I've read.. it would have to have T3 in

it..... ??Wouldn't it??

I'm not trying to debate..I hope you know that.. this thread is all of us

trying to figure out why it works for some.. and not for others....This

is important to a lot of folks that for one reason or another don't have

access to prescription grade.. and have no other choice that to get OTC

glandulars...

We have to be our own guinea pigs and testers with this..and the only way

to do that is to pool information and observation to see if there is a

pattern.. or may some of us are just flukes... if that be the case that

information is also of value to those that need to make decisions on

sources of meds.

I do know that a lot of the stuff that is sold as nutritional 'support'

and 'supplement' to thyroid health has a bunch of other additives... 'to

promote thyroid health'. But to someone with reduced thyroid function or

no thyroid function (like me) that makes no differences to boost it.. we

need to add hormone to our systems...

From the label of the Nutri-Meds Porcine bottle:

Each Tablet Supplies:

Raw Thyroid Concentrate - 130 mg

Contains no sugar, starch, salt, wheat, corn, yeast or soy derivatives.

Tissues processed by low temperature method to insure rawness and

preserve natural constituents.

Store in cool, dry place and keep out of reach of children.

It would surely be interesting to figure this all out....

See, I've just taken my second dose of generic today... and I feel no

different, so far, from having taken the Nutri-meds... and I have no

thyroid function, mine was destroyed by RAI...that was confirmed with my

labs during the 6 months after my RAI... so that isnt' the variable..so

it's something else that we are still not able to put our fingers on....

Things that may be of consideration....

My TSH receptors are genetically defective... So my system has never

been controlled by the amount of TSH that my pituitary produced... My

thyroid just pumped along steadily without anyone ever telling it what to

do... Because of that.. could it be that TSH levels in the blood

stream... causes some other issues after massive amounts have hit the

body for years - well for a bodies entire existence? My body would know

no other way.

Is it possible that I achieved better results than others because my body

tissues never learned that TSH at a high level is something that should

cause a panic.. because with my thyroid never really having acknowledge

it we could assume that even as my thyroid continued to enlarge to create

more and more hormone, my TSH levels continued to increase at the same

rate in response to the pituitary hollering to slow down?

Could it be that my system can work under a higher TSH load than someone

without that 'whole life' history of ignoring TSH?

This is just such a fascinating puzzle to me... I so want to find out the

why.... I love that we have so many minds mulling this over..someone is

going to, I hope, spot the key.... or something that we may be able to

check...

I hope this is okay to say... Gentle is sending me her left over capsules

of Nutri-Meds.. I'm gonna be guinea pig with those..I want to see what

they do to me... will I go hypo on them.. or still do fine?

Once the FDA gets involved with any of this...they could pull products

like Nutri-meds off the market as an OTC product and make it prescription

only.. that is why it's important not to rock the boat.. but determine

what the difference is between the OTC glandulars and the prescription

grade without bringing it into FDA jurisdiction.

A pharmacist could be, I'm not saying that he is, but he could be,

protecting his job as a licensed pharmacist by saying that folks should

ONLY buy prescription products... He is only making sure that he has a

job.....

Thoughts?

Topper ()

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:45:00 EST azippetydodaday@... writes:

> I would like to find out from the fda whether or not otc thyroid of

> any kind can have t3 in it...if what I've read is true and what the

> pharmacist told me

> today is true then it cannot...so then what you say Gentle would be

> absolutely

> on the mark as the T4 in the nutrimed would stimulate the production

> of t3

> for those who are able to convert and make a difference for them.

> Personally I

> think dieting so hard when I was young caused or worsened my

> hypothyroidism and

> caused my thryoid to stop the conversion process so the nutrimed

> caused a 10

> lb weight gain and all my hypo symptoms to come back in just 2

> weeks.

> Blessings,

> Loriann

February 11, 2004

Thanks for this, Loriann! You know, I'll bet that you are right, it

would make sense that the FDA would do that to make sure no one got

into big trouble with the OTC stuff. You know, they do try to step

in when they think a supplement is dangerous after all - like

Ephedra. It seems to me that T-3 could pose as great a risk (if

used excessively) as ephedra, so maybe the FDA did make that

stipulation. If so, then the Nutri-meds website is a little bit

misleading.

It sure would explain why there is a difference in all of us as far

as our reactions...maybe it all depends on how well (on particular

days or overall) each of us is converting. I know I went hypo again

the last couple of weeks on the OTC stuff.

Gentle

February 11, 2004

I think this is a really, great, fascinating subject! Seriously, I

don't want to rock the boat with Nutri-meds. Even if it only has

T-4 in it, it's still great for most people to take.

I still kind of think that one of the pieces of the puzzle is

individual chemistry/absorption/conversion abilities (that might

even vary from day to day in a person). That the difference might

lie not with the meds themselves but with individual differences in

our physical selves.

Really I think this is wonderful, I don't think it's an argument or

anything like that. More than anything I wish we could somehow

together figure it out!

Do you think Nutri-meds could help us with this question? I

hesitate to even ask them though because there's a lot they can't

say or else the FDA will get them. But maybe they've heard various

stories from various customers. Maybe they've had lots of people

raving (I see from the testimonials they do) and some people ranting

and maybe they have some insight as to why this might be.

I don't know, I'm just soooo curious!

Gentle

February 11, 2004

> But if it's whole raw desiccated thyroid, just as Armour is..it's

even

> processed the same way from what I've read.. it would have to have

T3 in

> it..... ??Wouldn't it??

>

From what I have understood over the years, the process by which they

extract thryoid (or adrenal)hormones (In a lab) from the glands and

the process by which they dessicate whole glands are two different

things...one preserves the hormone only, the other destroys the

hormone, but is done in a process that makes supplements...hormones I

think are rather fragile and easily lost in the process...although

when you dessicate a gland, small amounts are still bound to be

there...anyway...this is my take on it...I could be full of

beans...but you, Topper are a VERY sensitive individual and so your

body would react to even small amounts.

February 11, 2004

Yes Topper...I totally agree with you....it was interesting how you addressed

your tsh issue....not having it be the indicator in your body. I am very

happy that you've found something that works for you....Like you said we are all

just trying to figure this thing out and if two heads are better than

one....well we are loaded out of our minds!!!! with knowledge of course!!!! Lol

Hugs to you and Blessings,

Loriann

> A pharmacist could be, I'm not saying that he is, but he could be,

> protecting his job as a licensed pharmacist by saying that folks should

> ONLY buy prescription products... He is only making sure that he has a

> job.....

>

> Thoughts?

>

> Topper ()

>

February 11, 2004

I've actually asked them... they apologized and said they couldnt'

say....

I was a voice on the phone... how do they know that I'm not a spy????

hehehehehehehehe

I dont' want to lose them as a source.. they saved my fanny... and may

again... They have helped a lot of folks and they seem to be really good

folks themselves.. right from day one.. they don't do mail order.. they

are set up only to sell via credit card on the site... but when I wrote

to them and explained that I was in a really rough spot and that a friend

had been able to order that first bottle on his credit card and I wanted

to order more but that I'd have to mail a money order.. they actually

came up with a way to do it... It's a little bit of hoop jumping..cause

they are only set up to do it via the web site.. but someone figured out

a way and not only helped me in that way with all of my orders.. they

gave permission to tell others how as well....they don't have to take

that extra step for the little bit of business that I represent..but they

did...and then the phone calls when they had computer problems..they

didnt' have to do that either... but they did...

That kind of service goes a long way with me...AND for a product that has

helped me soo much...

That is another reason why` makes it a big deal for me who will get the

most benefit from them.. if it's only some of us.. and we can identify

who...then we will have helped a segment of our 'support' family that has

limited options.. and if another segment can not benefit from their

product and we can identify that it will far better aid to them to let

them know that and steer them in the right direction...

After all we're here to help each other.... right?

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:46:32 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> I think this is a really, great, fascinating subject! Seriously, I

> don't want to rock the boat with Nutri-meds. Even if it only has

> T-4 in it, it's still great for most people to take.

>

> I still kind of think that one of the pieces of the puzzle is

> individual chemistry/absorption/conversion abilities (that might

> even vary from day to day in a person). That the difference might

> lie not with the meds themselves but with individual differences in

> our physical selves.

> Really I think this is wonderful, I don't think it's an argument or

> anything like that. More than anything I wish we could somehow

> together figure it out!

> Do you think Nutri-meds could help us with this question? I

> hesitate to even ask them though because there's a lot they can't

> say or else the FDA will get them. But maybe they've heard various

> stories from various customers. Maybe they've had lots of people

> raving (I see from the testimonials they do) and some people ranting

> and maybe they have some insight as to why this might be.

> I don't know, I'm just soooo curious!

> Gentle

February 11, 2004

I'm curious.. some thoughts here.. If I'm very sensitive to the

hormone..that could/would mean being able to react to small amounts...but

wouldn't that also meant that I'd still not have good results if the dose

were not high enough?

This thought bothers/intrigues me from two angles.... why do I do well as

I do on Nutri-Meds

(tired of typing that.. lets just call it NM, okay??)

and then go hyper on just a bit more of the Generic.. Specifically going

from 2 1/2 grain to 3...

And now that I've typed that, it's because I am so sensitive? That my

body may not only recognizes and reacts to small amounts (ie NM) but also

react strongly by adding just a bit too much?

Has my head spinning.. I'm trying to grasp it.. and it's just not

sticking.... I just finished meal number five a wee bit ago and popped in

my thyroid dose... No rush.. NO WEEEEE.. just okay.. body smiling.. we

are happy... Sounds strange.. but that's the reaction I feel when I keep

things going.. just a happy contented, okay.. " we're fine " feeling.....

I wish I had a lab here and could just test me and start doing a chart..

I'm a chart/numbers visual person.... but this treatment isn't really

about numbers it's about how the meds correct what is wrong and make your

body work as it should resulting in how you FEEL.....

EEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Or do we do the loop around and say that I've found some magical balance

in the supps that I take to support the body in general... I'm willing to

adjust thyroid meds a bit.. even trying to do brand comparisons... but

the soul of me doesn't want to give up the supps I'm doing... I'm, like,

?afraid.... My body was so hungry for so long for basic nutrition.. that

it just hungers for healthy things now....

Topper () *giggling*

On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 21:47:22 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> From what I have understood over the years, the process by which

> they

> extract thryoid (or adrenal)hormones (In a lab) from the glands and

> the process by which they dessicate whole glands are two different

> things...one preserves the hormone only, the other destroys the

> hormone, but is done in a process that makes supplements...hormones

> I think are rather fragile and easily lost in the process...although

> when you dessicate a gland, small amounts are still bound to be

> there...anyway...this is my take on it...I could be full of

> beans...but you, Topper are a VERY sensitive individual and so your

> body would react to even small amounts.

February 11, 2004

> And now that I've typed that, it's because I am so sensitive? That

my

> body may not only recognizes and reacts to small amounts (ie NM)

but also

> react strongly by adding just a bit too much?

YES! and to tell you the truth...to me, that means that your adrenals

are not strong...because you can be thown for a loop so easily and

sensitivity either way is still senstivity, which I equate with tired

adrenals not being able to take the stress of adjustments which are

greater than a certain amount...big meal - you don't do as well as

frequesnt small ones...little bits of meds and nutriets, okay...but

take a LOT of anything and you are thrown for a loop..because the

resulting stress of the assault on your body is more than tired

adrenals can handle comfortably.

February 11, 2004

Topper, I'm so glad it's you trying to figure that out, 'cause it

boggles my mind!

Debbie

Re: Re: Why Nutri-meds works better

for some than others...

I'm curious.. some thoughts here.. If I'm very sensitive to the

hormone..that could/would mean being able to react to small

amounts...but

wouldn't that also meant that I'd still not have good results if the

dose

were not high enough?

This thought bothers/intrigues me from two angles.... why do I do well

as

I do on Nutri-Meds

(tired of typing that.. lets just call it NM, okay??)

and then go hyper on just a bit more of the Generic.. Specifically going

from 2 1/2 grain to 3...

And now that I've typed that, it's because I am so sensitive? That my

body may not only recognizes and reacts to small amounts (ie NM) but

also

react strongly by adding just a bit too much?

Has my head spinning.. I'm trying to grasp it.. and it's just not

sticking.... I just finished meal number five a wee bit ago and popped

in

my thyroid dose... No rush.. NO WEEEEE.. just okay.. body smiling.. we

are happy... Sounds strange.. but that's the reaction I feel when I

keep

things going.. just a happy contented, okay.. " we're fine " feeling.....

I wish I had a lab here and could just test me and start doing a chart..

I'm a chart/numbers visual person.... but this treatment isn't really

about numbers it's about how the meds correct what is wrong and make

your

body work as it should resulting in how you FEEL.....

EEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Or do we do the loop around and say that I've found some magical balance

in the supps that I take to support the body in general... I'm willing

to