Re: Possible explanation for differing needs for thyroid meds...

January 30, 2004

I have no doubt's that you'll achieve your goals !

Also have you noticed how many new people are joining??? AWESOME!!!!

Shirley

Re: Re: Possible explanation for differing

needs for thyroid meds...

Janie,

I so much want to try.. but I have that fear in the back of my head..

first that I'll over do and hurt me and then have to stop all the

exercises it took me so long to build up... then that dad will start

piling stuff on me... like when he made me haul shingles.... 14 months to

get over the back pain from that.... right now I'm absolutely pain

free... just sinus cause the house is so dry.. so I run around with my

mister bottle

sorry... had to mist.... to get moisture in the air... it's so dry that

we hit 31 below zero two days ago.. maybe three... and the only windows

that got any frost on them were the office and my bedroom.. the two rooms

that are kept closed off and that I keep misting....

But I'm getting there....

Hey, want to hear my goals?

By Memorial Day I want to be able to walk the 1/2 mile to the gas

station/convenience store, buy a bottle of Mountain Dew and walk back,

without resting.. then sit on the deck and enjoy my favorite treat...

By my birthday, end of July... I want to be able to walk a third mile

past that to the gate that leads to the park they put in along the

river....

By Labor Day I want to be able the walk to that gate, then 1/2 mile from

that gate to the side of the river... to stop and have a sandwich. And

before the snow flies I want to be able to walk to that river bank with a

lunch and a laptop to sit and write...

One of my bestest things to do was to sit by the river and either read or

write.. but when I could no longer drive.. it's hard to find someone to

just drop you off and come back later to pick you up... so it's been over

8 years since I've been able to do that... and now with that new park in

and less than a mile and a half a way... I have a dream to reach for.

Topper () *who can almost hear the water lapping*

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:06:12 -0000 " loboshe " writes:

> > There is hope in my heart that one day I can be a shovel fairy

> again!!!

>

> You are so funny. Hey, how close do you think you are? Because you

> sound VERY close to normal right now!! Cleaning the deck four times

> is no small feat, girl!!

>

> Janie

February 1, 2004

Good theory... I take tablets, that are quartered.. to give me the

multi-dosing that is working for me.. in both the Nutri-meds and the

Generic Natural..... Another thought... my hyper activity, abnormal

thyroid function developed over a course of years. From what I've been

able to piece together from family medical history is that I have a

genetic defect which makes my TSH receptors faulty... so my thyroid was

never able to be regulated by my pituitary.... The TSH was sent out the

regulate thyroid levels but my TSH receptors were not able to accept the

instruction...

.......so... maybe that fact means that my T4 and T3 receptors have never

been shut down at all so they are stuck on open? What if that is why it

all works so well for me... that when mine got to the point where by

thyroid was dead and I started adding hormone... that is why I got so

sick? That that is why the hormone works so constantly well for me?

Wish there was a way to test that theory.....

In the mean time... I cleaned the deck four times today. Last year it

would take me all day to clean it off once and there wasn't even as much

snow as we had in the last 14 hours!!! YIPPEEE... I had a ball being

outside and battling winter.... I used to love doing that... I'm still

not up to a shovel yet (the deck has to get swept off, so when the snow

starts getting up over 6 inches you're getting a pretty good lat

workout!!! hehehhe) I could probably start shoveling.. but I don't want

to push it... right now I'm going right up to my limits and stopping... a

bit stronger each day without injury and down time....

There is hope in my heart that one day I can be a shovel fairy again!!!

heheheheheh what a glorious day, snow storm and all! Big Grin!

Topper ()

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 21:52:44 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> I've been following the discussion about differing needs for meds,

> how some people are hyper on 2 grains of Armour, how some people

> need

> 4 nutri-meds caps as opposed to someone else doing great on two, etc.

> And I remembered something I read - think it was from Dr. Lowe's

> site - that might offer a partial explanation for differing needs for

> meds (besides varying thyroid function, different body weights,

> other hormones and vitamin levels, etc.).

> His theory is that some of us have a resistance to thyroid hormone,

> kind of like what you see when cells are insulin resistant. That

> there might be a normal amount of thyroid hormone floating around in

> our blood, but that for some reason our cells are rejecting it and

> not using it, so our cells are starved and we get all the hypo

> symptoms. His theory says that this is often found with people who

> have fibromyalgia and/or CFS. And his theory goes on further to

> explain that by the time you get the meds up high enough so that it

> finally gets into the cells and you get normal metabolism at the

> cellular level, the blood levels are pretty scary to look at (would

> make an endo scream " hyper! " ) and it ends up seeming like a lot of

> thyroid medicine to take.

> I was just thinking, that this theory might offer a possible

> explanation as to why some people seem to do better with more

> capsules, and others with less capsules. Perhaps there are

> differing levels of resistance on the cellular level?

> I don't know if his theory is true or not or anything but I thought

> it was kind of interesting, and if it IS true, might account for

> some cases of variances in dosage needs.

>

> Gentle

February 1, 2004

Topper, I am thrilled that you are doing better! May you keep

getting better and healthier every single day!

I wish there was a way to prove the theory too...seems like if there

was a way to evaluate thyroid hormone activity at the cellular level,

it would make the most sense to do the investigating there instead of

just taking TSH levels.

Gentle

February 1, 2004

> There is hope in my heart that one day I can be a shovel fairy

again!!!

You are so funny. Hey, how close do you think you are? Because you

sound VERY close to normal right now!! Cleaning the deck four times

is no small feat, girl!!

Janie

February 1, 2004

I've been reading up a bit on the cellular level and thyroid...

Stuff like insufficient carbs in the diet cause conversion to drop,

supposedly part of the reason hypos crave carbs to trigger better

conversion.. the body has the right idea... but we seem to get addicted

to carbs other than that and carry it the wrong way... then I read that

fructose destroys thyroid at the cellular level.... that would mean that

you would then be out of available hormone until the next release by the

gland OR the next dose.

Insufficient calories available at any time stops conversion, period.

That seems to answer a lot of questions, not only concerning weight

gain.. but why I'm losing with what I'm doing.. at least that is my

understanding.

As I piece it together.. the impression that I'm getting is that with

eating 5 to 7 times a day, dosing the thyroid 5 times a day, dosing the

selenium three times a day.. adding smaller amounts of Vitamin C with

every mini meal.. And a bit more at three of those meals.... I've seemed

to have magically hit a chemical balance at cellular level... with

everything I'm doing I'm keeping all the levels of every thing that are

supposed to be up, up... and those that are negative aren't negative for

long.. because - here comes another dose...

The jury is still out on this though... it would take more folks trying

it this way to see if I'm some kind of a fluke or if it's the right

balance for others to strive for.....

Back to wishing I could win the lottery and start a clinic!

Topper ()

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:34:37 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> Topper, I am thrilled that you are doing better! May you keep

> getting better and healthier every single day!

> I wish there was a way to prove the theory too...seems like if there

> was a way to evaluate thyroid hormone activity at the cellular

> level,

> it would make the most sense to do the investigating there instead

> of just taking TSH levels.

>

> Gentle

February 1, 2004

I would be the first in line for your clinic, Topper!

That makes a lot of sense! I wonder if my Coca-cola habit (I think

they use corn syrup type sweetener now instead of sugar) hurt me at

the cellular level?

Boy I tell you I really did used to have the most wicked sweet

tooth/carb addiction.

The thing that was weird was, I hardly ever had an appetite for real

food. I lived on candy bars and cokes for years. That's all that

tasted good to me. And usually just one, maybe two meals a day. No

real appetitie.

Well, now that I'm on thyroid, I've noticed I have a genuine appetite

for real food. In fact I was really scared at first that maybe I was

hyper because I had an appetite.

But what I find is that now I have what most people would consider

a " normal " appetite. After I wake up in the morning, I find I want

some breakfast after I've been awake 2-3 hours. Not a huge

breakfast, but maybe some toast or oatmeal. Then I'm fine for 4-5

hours. Then I get hungry again. This time maybe for a burger or a

sandwich. Maybe a cookie for dessert (still have a little bit of a

sweet tooth). Then hungry again in another 4-5 hours. Then in the

mood for a bedtime snack (a banana, maybe some applesauce, or peanut

butter on a cracker.) After thinking about it, I thought - don't

think this is " hyper " appetite, think it's just " normal " after years

of " hypo. "

Did anyone else find their food choices changed a bit after starting

thyroid, or their appetite?

Gentle

February 1, 2004

> I've been reading up a bit on the cellular level and thyroid...

> As I piece it together.. the impression that I'm getting is that

with

> eating 5 to 7 times a day, dosing the thyroid 5 times a day,

dosing the

> selenium three times a day.. adding smaller amounts of Vitamin C

with

> every mini meal.. And a bit more at three of those meals.... I've

seemed

> to have magically hit a chemical balance at cellular level... with

> everything I'm doing I'm keeping all the levels of every thing that

are

> supposed to be up, up... and those that are negative aren't

negative for

> long.. because - here comes another dose...

>

> Topper ()

doesn't the FT3 measure the amount of thyroid hormone that is useable

at the cellular level?? that's what I always thought. If it is bound

with proteins, it is not useable...but it will still show up in the

T3 levels, just not in the FT3 levels... so if you take T3...you're

good...if not, you may have little usable T3 because it get bound in

the conversion process...

February 1, 2004

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " gentleone772002 "

> Did anyone else find their food choices changed a bit after

starting

> thyroid, or their appetite?

>

> Gentle

Absolutely - I have aksed people the same question...I had NEVER had

a hunger pang or a real appetite in my life until after I began

taking Armour. I get ravenous now. As my son put it, ALL of my

appetites are stronger now...to eat, to exercise, and even to sleep.

February 1, 2004

> Absolutely - I have aksed people the same question...I had NEVER

had

> a hunger pang or a real appetite in my life until after I began

> taking Armour. I get ravenous now. As my son put it, ALL of my

> appetites are stronger now...to eat, to exercise, and even to

sleep.

>

Thank you, ! I'm pretty sure it's just " normal " appetites we

have now, as long as we don't have any other symptoms of hyper or

anything. It seems like it would be a subjective thing, anyway,

knowing if appetite is too much, not enough, etc.

Does anyone know, how we might recognize " hyper " appetite if it

happens to us, as opposed to just normal healthy appetite?

Gentle

February 1, 2004

Janie,

I so much want to try.. but I have that fear in the back of my head..

first that I'll over do and hurt me and then have to stop all the

exercises it took me so long to build up... then that dad will start

piling stuff on me... like when he made me haul shingles.... 14 months to

get over the back pain from that.... right now I'm absolutely pain

free... just sinus cause the house is so dry.. so I run around with my

mister bottle

sorry... had to mist.... to get moisture in the air... it's so dry that

we hit 31 below zero two days ago.. maybe three... and the only windows

that got any frost on them were the office and my bedroom.. the two rooms

that are kept closed off and that I keep misting....

But I'm getting there....

Hey, want to hear my goals?

By Memorial Day I want to be able to walk the 1/2 mile to the gas

station/convenience store, buy a bottle of Mountain Dew and walk back,

without resting.. then sit on the deck and enjoy my favorite treat...

By my birthday, end of July... I want to be able to walk a third mile

past that to the gate that leads to the park they put in along the

river....

By Labor Day I want to be able the walk to that gate, then 1/2 mile from

that gate to the side of the river... to stop and have a sandwich. And

before the snow flies I want to be able to walk to that river bank with a

lunch and a laptop to sit and write...

One of my bestest things to do was to sit by the river and either read or

write.. but when I could no longer drive.. it's hard to find someone to

just drop you off and come back later to pick you up... so it's been over

8 years since I've been able to do that... and now with that new park in

and less than a mile and a half a way... I have a dream to reach for.

Topper () *who can almost hear the water lapping*

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 00:06:12 -0000 " loboshe " writes:

> > There is hope in my heart that one day I can be a shovel fairy

> again!!!

>

> You are so funny. Hey, how close do you think you are? Because you

> sound VERY close to normal right now!! Cleaning the deck four times

> is no small feat, girl!!

>

> Janie

February 1, 2004

High fructose corn syrup.. from what I've been reading it's the fructose

that does it... and the high fructose corn syrup would be even worse than

fruit... Fructose is natural fruit sugar.

Not to lecture... the carbonation is really bad for your bones and the

caffeine is horrid for your adrenals... I had to wean myself off of

soda... Mountain Dew, nectar of the gods.... Now it's a special treat...

I got a case for my birthday... took three months to drink 24 cans... I

used to do that much in ONE day.. and often more... Now I drink mostly

filtered water, a brita pitcher.

I am just now learning to eat normally... I was hyper for many years

before I stormed.. so I just ate.. never had to worry about a thing.. I

was big boned and muscular.. then got into body building ...I was always

guessed as weight FAR less than I really did.. but still considered

fat.....

After the RAI.. I saw food, I gained, I smelled food I gain, I ate,

gained, I didn't eat I gained....

Then I learned enough about food to not gain... and now.. after 15

years...I've learned to eat to lose... and it's working well... No more

starving and I still eat cake and cookies..... I eat what I can afford

which is mostly carb... unbelievable...

Topper ()

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:20:37 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> I would be the first in line for your clinic, Topper!

> That makes a lot of sense! I wonder if my Coca-cola habit (I think

> they use corn syrup type sweetener now instead of sugar) hurt me at

> the cellular level?

> Boy I tell you I really did used to have the most wicked sweet

> tooth/carb addiction.

> The thing that was weird was, I hardly ever had an appetite for real

> food. I lived on candy bars and cokes for years. That's all that

> tasted good to me. And usually just one, maybe two meals a day. No

> real appetitie.

> Well, now that I'm on thyroid, I've noticed I have a genuine

> appetite

> for real food. In fact I was really scared at first that maybe I

> was hyper because I had an appetite.

> But what I find is that now I have what most people would consider

> a " normal " appetite. After I wake up in the morning, I find I want

> some breakfast after I've been awake 2-3 hours. Not a huge

> breakfast, but maybe some toast or oatmeal. Then I'm fine for 4-5

> hours. Then I get hungry again. This time maybe for a burger or a

> sandwich. Maybe a cookie for dessert (still have a little bit of a

> sweet tooth). Then hungry again in another 4-5 hours. Then in the

> mood for a bedtime snack (a banana, maybe some applesauce, or peanut

> butter on a cracker.) After thinking about it, I thought - don't

> think this is " hyper " appetite, think it's just " normal " after years

> of " hypo. "

> Did anyone else find their food choices changed a bit after starting

> thyroid, or their appetite?

> Gentle

February 1, 2004

Those are wonderful goals and I know for sure you will achieve them!

And I don't blame you for wanting to build up slowly. I hear you

about how an injury takes forever to heal for us hypos.

It's been pretty dry here too. I have this water fountain thing I

keep running all the time (it runs out of water so fast so I guess

it's helping humidify things) and sometimes I let the teapot boil for

awhile (lid off) to put some moisture in the air. But it's still

pretty dry.

I keep my skin from getting too bad by slathering on petroleum jelly

(Vaseline) after every bath/shower. It is kind of gross but it keeps

the moisture in good.

Gentle

February 1, 2004

The tests measure what is available in the blood stream.. but does not

tell what is happening at cellular level... that is why the blood tests

are valuable as a guideline, but it still takes the symptoms to really

know if your meds are correct...

From what it was saying, I've posted the link... I can look it up again

for those that don't have it...... it's at that cellular level that it's

all turned off... and just stays that way until the offending element is

used up and another dose of thyroid brings it back up... like hitting a

switch that turns down the entire chemical process.... after reading that

and relating to how so many of us have the horrendous problems with

controlling weight... it just really rang a bell with me... that if there

are things that are that common (simple fruit sugar, insufficient

calories) that can halt all conversion.. that could be why so many have

problems maintaining a proper metabolic level... and some see such

improvement when increasing the frequency of dosing.

Because of my finances.. I have no access to sodas or fruit or any junk

food, except on rare occasions.... most folks aren't restricted as

severely from those things as I am...

.... kinda makes you wonder, don't it?

There is a section in there that gets into sort of explaining why some do

good on one dose a day.. they are actually taking more than they need to

allow more T4 to build in the tissues.. allowing higher conversion

proportion to accommodate... yet it still seems that there is less stress

to the system to even it all out rather then to give excess to cover the

longer period of time between doses...

It's a very technical read.. I've had to spend a lot of time trying to

understanding it all.

Topper ()

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:23:02 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> doesn't the FT3 measure the amount of thyroid hormone that is

> useable

> at the cellular level?? that's what I always thought. If it is bound

> with proteins, it is not useable...but it will still show up in the

> T3 levels, just not in the FT3 levels... so if you take T3...you're

> good...if not, you may have little usable T3 because it get bound in

> the conversion process...

February 1, 2004

Because your body is sensing LIFE again, I think... as hypo persons...

everything is muted.. slowed.. relaxed.. as we gain 'normal' everything

wakes up again...

.... Life tastes good!

Topper ()

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:26:11 -0000 " astrodiana "

writes:

> Absolutely - I have aksed people the same question...I had NEVER had

> a hunger pang or a real appetite in my life until after I began

> taking Armour. I get ravenous now. As my son put it, ALL of my

> appetites are stronger now...to eat, to exercise, and even to sleep.

>

February 1, 2004

--- In NaturalThyroidHormones , " gentleone772002 "

> Does anyone know, how we might recognize " hyper " appetite if it

> happens to us, as opposed to just normal healthy appetite?

>

> Gentle

You would not get to a point of having enough with your food and you

would be on the toilet all the time.

February 1, 2004

Gentle,

Oh, I know a hyper appetite.. all too well.....

How to describe it... It's not how full your stomach is.. or how long

since you've eaten.. it's what you've eaten and how much, but it's

not.... I've had it so bad that I would sit and shovel in sugar, or eat

fat... or just eat whatever was in front of me.. I've eaten plain cooked

rice, whole chickens. Sat down with a turkey once...

You don't gulp it.. or inhale it.. but you don't linger with it either..

You need to eat. You eat. and eat. and eat.. and suddenly your body says

stop. And you do... just like a switch.. then all is well..... then

suddenly the monster says to feed and you have to find something,

anything to eat. and you eat... Doesn't matter, most of the time even

what it is... You don't register taste or texture.. You dont' feel

satisfaction or guilt for having eaten.. it's all separate.. but when you

have to eat. You must eat.. there is no choice. For me.. If I could not

eat or tried to convince myself that I could control it.. I got ill,

usually a bad headache.. chills, shakes.. faint.... Horribly weak.. it

was when I got really weak and shaky that I go for something really sweat

or fat. You don't have munchies.. you don't feel like nibbling...it's

feed now, it's okay... it's feed now, it's okay.. just like a switch....

After a year of storm.. the switch, for me was always on... I ate all the

time.. then stopped sleeping so that I could stay awake to eat. I was

lucky.. I worked for a vending company.. the expired product that we

pulled out of the machines.. that is what I took home to eat.. Chips,

cookies, nuts, candy, cake stuff.... cheese crackers.. anything that

you'd find in a vending machine... Sandwiches that were to expire before

the next time we filled a machine, that had to be pulled.. I ate all of

those too. I'd go through a case of expired chips.. 60 bags.. in one

night.. on top of all the other crap that I ate.... During the day.. I

went to all you can eat places... the stuff I ate there was meat, fruit

and vegies.. never sweets.. cause I had access to them at home and at

work.. what I craved at a buffet was all natural healthy stuff.. and I

ate so much there that managers hated to see me walk in the door.

I didn't crave snacks... I didn't think about food.. I didn't fantasize

about candy. Or even consider what I might eat.. I was fine.. then the

monster said 'feed me' and I had to eat, now.. that was it....

This minor hyper state that I just went through.. the monster and I said

howdy... it wasn't as bad as it was fifteen years ago.. but I could feel

it.. he's still alive inside me.... I hope that he and I never meet

again. My meal sizes doubled... and I was still losing weight... I chose

not to chart what I was eating cause I knew it would depress me.... I

couldn't afford to double my meals.. but I couldn't afford to ignore the

beast either.

Now... 'normal' I plan meals..I look forward to a meal.. I enjoy the

taste and the texture... I eat roughly a cup, by volume, of food at a

mini-meal.. and I'm satisfied.. I do the yum... I do the sigh.. I do the

that was good.... there is a satisfaction..... not like when feeding the

beast.. there is just the cessation of the need to feed...

When I'm hypo... eating is more of a chore.. I want sweets and easy to

eat things.. I like things that are easy to eat, require no work to feed

myself or to chew and swallow. So, finger foods, chocolate, pudding,

mashed potatoes... Rich sauces... and I'm nibbly.. I don't want a meal..

I just want it to be there.. and I'll nibble.. a bit here, a bit

there.... When I was without meds and working on a machine.. I did

M & Ms... I'd dump a bag out in a bowl and just nibble on them the whole

time I worked.... I simply couldn't work without a nibble...

I have no idea if that answered your question.. but it's as close as I

can come...

Topper ()

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 01:31:43 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> Thank you, ! I'm pretty sure it's just " normal " appetites we

> have now, as long as we don't have any other symptoms of hyper or

> anything. It seems like it would be a subjective thing, anyway,

> knowing if appetite is too much, not enough, etc.

>

> Does anyone know, how we might recognize " hyper " appetite if it

> happens to us, as opposed to just normal healthy appetite?

>

> Gentle

February 1, 2004

Hi, Gentle,

Before anyone would admit that I had a Thyroid problem, I craved

carbs and salty foods. The cravings did not go away on the

synthetics. They weren't completely gone on Armour until I began adding

vitamins (Lots of " B Vits " and " C " ) and Selenium. I have been eating more

protein-rich foods and they seem to really help me not become as " ravenous "

as I was before. It is the feeling so hungry that would also cause me to

overeat. I drink a great deal of water everyday, too.

While some of what was going on with may have been cellular

resistance, I think that most of it was a matter of poor nutritional

" uptake " because of the amount of my digestive system that is missing

now. I have scads more energy than I have had in more than 30 years, but

it isn't the kind of energy that allows for " stamina " , so I do things

quickly while I have the pep to do them, then go back to doing something

less strenuous. I am hoping that as I improve my uptake on the meds and

vitamins, along with a high-protein/low-carbohydrate diet regimen, I will

be able to increase the stamina to something nearer to " normal " .

I am pleased with the results I am getting so far, so for the

present, I am simply going to do things more like Topper does them and see

what happens.

Dianne

At 01:20 AM 2/2/04 +0000, you wrote:

>I would be the first in line for your clinic, Topper!

>

>Did anyone else find their food choices changed a bit after starting

>thyroid, or their appetite?

>

>Gentle

>

February 1, 2004

Pop won't let me put a pot on the stove.... I'm not gonna get into

that... So I just use the old mister and hang my wet laundry in the

bedroom... You know.. now I wonder if that is part of why I slept so good

last night.. the bedroom had all that laundry hanging to dry! heheheheh

Topper ()

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 02:29:48 -0000 " gentleone772002 "

writes:

> Those are wonderful goals and I know for sure you will achieve them!

> And I don't blame you for wanting to build up slowly. I hear you

> about how an injury takes forever to heal for us hypos.

> It's been pretty dry here too. I have this water fountain thing I

> keep running all the time (it runs out of water so fast so I guess

> it's helping humidify things) and sometimes I let the teapot boil

> for

> awhile (lid off) to put some moisture in the air. But it's still

> pretty dry.

> I keep my skin from getting too bad by slathering on petroleum jelly

> (Vaseline) after every bath/shower. It is kind of gross but it

> keeps the moisture in good.

>

> Gentle

February 1, 2004

Yep.. In our groups too!

More folks are learning that you can learn a lot on the internet... and

find support systems as well!

Topper ()

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 16:25:59 -0700 " Shirley White "

writes:

> Also have you noticed how many new people are joining???

> AWESOME!!!!

> Shirley

February 2, 2004

Topper,

I hear you about the soda - Dr. Pepper is my nectar of the gods. It is my

stress reliever, friend, pick me up, etc. I can get off it for a short period

of time but always get right back on it when some stress hits me. I am

beginning osteoporotic, it has probably killed my adrenals, hurt my thyroid, and

who knows what else.

I keep wondering how I got to where I am with my thyroid but the more I read on

here and learn and look back it has been a number of things; poor nutritional

choices, a life time of horrible stress, and probably some predisposition with

my mother having thyroid problems.

I have probably been borderline hypo for years and years and could not get

anyone to pay attention since my labs were o.k. I just want to thank you for

this website, the support, and the information. It's empowering!!!!!

Deborah