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Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

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Posted
Posted

I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation is more

than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest is the

reason I no longer desire being a director.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

wrote:

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT & two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take 2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you let>

them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you normally>

allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled vacation?> If

so, how large is your staff?

I think that if i were in your shoes that would be a hard. I am the director at

a critical access hospital and i think that if i hired married PTs i would have

to let them take vacation together but if you go down that road why can't others

be off at the same time? It does open you up for further problems? It is

unrealistic to think that they would not take vacation togethet though.> >

Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2>

outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand by> the

previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?I would have issues with this

one, being in Iowa you have to have 1 PT per 2 PTAs for supervision rules (1 PT

can not supervise more than 2 PTAs on a given day) so with the numbers that you

have if you were to have 1 PT off you would really have to give the 2 PTAs off

as well because of the ratio. It depends on the state that you are in?? This is

something to look into and might give you a good reason not to let the PTs off

together? but this might also give them a reason to leave your department which

might put you in a worse situation?

Good luck with this issue. We are in a location that it is hard to find PTs to

work at so we also do bend over backwards for them probably more than we should,

but that is they way that it has become in rural settings.

Jeff Nolder, PT

Director of Physical Medicine

Cherokee Regional Medical Center

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Posted
Posted

I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but they

know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very hectic

month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's really only

look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

interview process. Just reality I guess.

Hang in there.

Joe Ruzich, PT

Pueblo, CO

Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation is more

than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest is the

reason I no longer desire being a director.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

wrote:

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT & two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take 2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

A part of the problem is not " looking out for number one " , it is our

American culture. We should have a system in place to allow long

vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

productive generally.

A week off is not long enough when working in our health care system.

Should we all wait until we retire before we travel and take time to

enjoy life a bit? I used to work in a hospital in Alaska and I saw what

happens to those folks who work hard all their life and wait until

retirement to take a long vacation somewhere. By that time most have

various medical issues and a percentage end up in the hospital and then

flown back home. And the large percentage of the rest that don't end up

in the hospital are too out of shape to take a hike through Denali, go

sea kayaking, etc....

I personally am all for allowing folks to have some time off while they

are fit enough to enjoy it.

Wade, PT

Oregon

Joe Ruzich wrote:

>

> I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

> wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but

> they

> know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very

> hectic

> month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's

> really only

> look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

> interview process. Just reality I guess.

> Hang in there.

>

> Joe Ruzich, PT

> Pueblo, CO

>

> Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek <pkovacek@...

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Thank you . . . all too often we see hard-working people put off until

retirement to " enjoy " life. I fully agree with you. While work is important,

there is a lot to be said for having time to smell the roses. Employers should

realize that some employees would prefer a few extra days off over some other

benefits.

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of Wade

[wade@...]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:49 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

A part of the problem is not " looking out for number one " , it is our

American culture. We should have a system in place to allow long

vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

productive generally.

A week off is not long enough when working in our health care system.

Should we all wait until we retire before we travel and take time to

enjoy life a bit? I used to work in a hospital in Alaska and I saw what

happens to those folks who work hard all their life and wait until

retirement to take a long vacation somewhere. By that time most have

various medical issues and a percentage end up in the hospital and then

flown back home. And the large percentage of the rest that don't end up

in the hospital are too out of shape to take a hike through Denali, go

sea kayaking, etc....

I personally am all for allowing folks to have some time off while they

are fit enough to enjoy it.

Wade, PT

Oregon

Joe Ruzich wrote:

>

> I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

> wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but

> they

> know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very

> hectic

> month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's

> really only

> look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

> interview process. Just reality I guess.

> Hang in there.

>

> Joe Ruzich, PT

> Pueblo, CO

>

> Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

<pkovacek@...<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Great answer, except that ususally they want those few extra days off AND all

the other benefits!!  'quid pro quo'

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ============ ==

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations. .. the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/ DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Don't all fire at once, but shouldn't there be a difference in expectations for

professional people who handle the health care of others? What are the patients

to do if their therapist is gone for a month? Should their care have to be

transferred to another therapist who will likely have some lag time in getting

up to speed on their care? I personally don't know of any physicians who have

taken a month at a time off unless it is for personal health reasons or for

volunteering to provide medical care overseas, etc... If we are to move toward

a doctoring profession, we can't have it both ways. I don't think we can have

the 9-5 hours of a bank teller plus 1 month of vacation when we have assumed the

responsibility to be a primary health care provider.

Proffitt, PT

Massillon, OH

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________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of Amy Stelly

Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 3:25 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Thank you . . . all too often we see hard-working people put off until

retirement to " enjoy " life. I fully agree with you. While work is important,

there is a lot to be said for having time to smell the roses. Employers should

realize that some employees would prefer a few extra days off over some other

benefits.

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of

Wade [wade@... <mailto:wade%40wadeandersonpt.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:49 PM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

A part of the problem is not " looking out for number one " , it is our

American culture. We should have a system in place to allow long

vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

productive generally.

A week off is not long enough when working in our health care system.

Should we all wait until we retire before we travel and take time to

enjoy life a bit? I used to work in a hospital in Alaska and I saw what

happens to those folks who work hard all their life and wait until

retirement to take a long vacation somewhere. By that time most have

various medical issues and a percentage end up in the hospital and then

flown back home. And the large percentage of the rest that don't end up

in the hospital are too out of shape to take a hike through Denali, go

sea kayaking, etc....

I personally am all for allowing folks to have some time off while they

are fit enough to enjoy it.

Wade, PT

Oregon

Joe Ruzich wrote:

>

> I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

> wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but

> they

> know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very

> hectic

> month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's

> really only

> look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

> interview process. Just reality I guess.

> Hang in there.

>

> Joe Ruzich, PT

> Pueblo, CO

>

> Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek <pkovacek@...

<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

>> We should have a system in place to allow long

> vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

> month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

> countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

> productive generally. <<

-----------------------

I wholeheartedly agree with Wade. I would like to comment on this part

only, as I have first-hand experience, being a native of Germany and

having worked there 10+ years before immigrating to this country.Every

person in Germany that works full time gets 6 weeks of vacation per year.

Don't ask me how small employers can afford this, I don't know that part

of the equation..;-)

The last place I worked for over there was for the U.S. Air Force. It was

stated in our contract that we HAD TO take 3 of the 6 weeks vacation per

year consecutively, as they felt that you needed at least that much time

to really relax.

Needless to say, coming to the U.S. and working here was an eye-opener for

sure. There are many, many people here that work full time without any

benefits, which I think is very sad, but that's a whole nother story.

Anyway, just thougth I'd give my 2 cents on the subject.

Marita Mc

Billing Manager

Dana Austin Physical Therapy

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Posted
Posted

This scenario is why a lot of employers choose not to hire relatives or

spouses. When you choose to hire a relative or spouse you are taking the

risk of having those employees out together either for vacation, deaths in

the family, contagious illness, etc. Also, how many of you that are married

would take vacation at a time that your spouse could not? Now this does not

mean that you cannot control how many weeks in a row that your employees can

utilize their PTO, but I think it seems unreasonable to hire spouses and

then ask them in retrospect to take their vacations at separate times. In

defense of the employer, these employees should have discussed the

utilization of PTO at the time of hire or annual review so that everyone was

on the same page.

Tori Bjornholm

Office Manager

Riata Therapy Specialists, PLLC

2008 L Don Dodson Drive, Suite 105

Bedford, Texas 76021

ph

fx

www.riatatherapy.com

_____

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On Behalf

Of L Proffitt

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:03 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Don't all fire at once, but shouldn't there be a difference in expectations

for professional people who handle the health care of others? What are the

patients to do if their therapist is gone for a month? Should their care

have to be transferred to another therapist who will likely have some lag

time in getting up to speed on their care? I personally don't know of any

physicians who have taken a month at a time off unless it is for personal

health reasons or for volunteering to provide medical care overseas, etc...

If we are to move toward a doctoring profession, we can't have it both ways.

I don't think we can have the 9-5 hours of a bank teller plus 1 month of

vacation when we have assumed the responsibility to be a primary health care

provider.

Proffitt, PT

Massillon, OH

Note: The information contained in this message, including attachments, may

be privileged, confidential, and/or proprietary and protected from

disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or

an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended

recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,

printing, copying or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If

you have received this communication in error, please notify the Sender

immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer

and destroying all copies.

Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no

viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility

for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

________________________________

From: PTManager@yahoogrou <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com on

behalf of Amy Stelly

Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 3:25 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

Subject: RE: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Thank you . . . all too often we see hard-working people put off until

retirement to " enjoy " life. I fully agree with you. While work is important,

there is a lot to be said for having time to smell the roses. Employers

should realize that some employees would prefer a few extra days off over

some other benefits.

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager@yahoogrou <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> [PTManager@yahoogrou

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wade

[wade@wadeandersonpt <mailto:wade%40wadeandersonpt.com> .com

<mailto:wade%40wadeandersonpt.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:49 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

A part of the problem is not " looking out for number one " , it is our

American culture. We should have a system in place to allow long

vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

productive generally.

A week off is not long enough when working in our health care system.

Should we all wait until we retire before we travel and take time to

enjoy life a bit? I used to work in a hospital in Alaska and I saw what

happens to those folks who work hard all their life and wait until

retirement to take a long vacation somewhere. By that time most have

various medical issues and a percentage end up in the hospital and then

flown back home. And the large percentage of the rest that don't end up

in the hospital are too out of shape to take a hike through Denali, go

sea kayaking, etc....

I personally am all for allowing folks to have some time off while they

are fit enough to enjoy it.

Wade, PT

Oregon

Joe Ruzich wrote:

>

> I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

> wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but

> they

> know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very

> hectic

> month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's

> really only

> look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

> interview process. Just reality I guess.

> Hang in there.

>

> Joe Ruzich, PT

> Pueblo, CO

>

> Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek <pkovacekptmanager (DOT)

<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com> com <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

They're not married to each other . . .

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of

Hollier, PT [shollierpt@...]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:53 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Amy,

If you were the owner/director of personnel I wonder what would happen to the

practice if Mr. Jerry Chamberlain, Jude and Errol Leblanc decided to all

three go on vacation at the same time? What would you tell the patients as they

walked in the door----sorry, the boys are gone for the month to smell the roses?

Uh............no.

Having the two married PT's taking off together for 3 weeks is selfish and shows

no respect for the employer and all that he created prior to them being hired.

It may be good for the marriage but bad for the business. Surely there must be a

better way.

Hollier,PT

Abbeville, Louisiana

Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

<pkovacek@...<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com><mailto:pkovacek%40ptman\

ager.com>

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

It is rare that someone requires more than 1 week off for vacation - possibly a

week and a half. There are certainly ways to accommodate this schedule if the

practice employees more than 1-2 therapists.

Also, these are professionals and I'm certain measures are taken to ensure their

patients receive the level of care they require.

We all know we need to work (professionals and support staff alike), but it

would be a comfort to know that one is not jeopardizing their career by taking a

few extra days off for something that may be a once (or twice) in a lifetime

thing.

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager [PTManager ] On Behalf Of

L Proffitt [jproffitt@...]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:02 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Don't all fire at once, but shouldn't there be a difference in expectations for

professional people who handle the health care of others? What are the patients

to do if their therapist is gone for a month? Should their care have to be

transferred to another therapist who will likely have some lag time in getting

up to speed on their care? I personally don't know of any physicians who have

taken a month at a time off unless it is for personal health reasons or for

volunteering to provide medical care overseas, etc... If we are to move toward a

doctoring profession, we can't have it both ways. I don't think we can have the

9-5 hours of a bank teller plus 1 month of vacation when we have assumed the

responsibility to be a primary health care provider.

Proffitt, PT

Massillon, OH

Note: The information contained in this message, including attachments, may be

privileged, confidential, and/or proprietary and protected from disclosure. If

the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or

agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are

hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, printing, copying or use

of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this

communication in error, please notify the Sender immediately by replying to the

message and deleting it from your computer and destroying all copies.

Warning: Although the company has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no

viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for

any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments.

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> on behalf of

Amy Stelly

Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 3:25 PM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: RE: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Thank you . . . all too often we see hard-working people put off until

retirement to " enjoy " life. I fully agree with you. While work is important,

there is a lot to be said for having time to smell the roses. Employers should

realize that some employees would prefer a few extra days off over some other

benefits.

Amy Stelly

Clinic Coordinator (Office Manager)

LeBlanc, Chamberlain and Physical Therapy Services

4027 I-49 South Service Road

Opelousas, Louisiana 70570

Telephone: Facsimile:

________________________________

From: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

[PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Wade

[wade@...<mailto:wade%40wadeandersonpt.com>

<mailto:wade%40wadeandersonpt.com> ]

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:49 PM

To: PTManager <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

A part of the problem is not " looking out for number one " , it is our

American culture. We should have a system in place to allow long

vacation breaks for folks to travel to other countries if they wish. A

month off is not unreasonable, it is done in many of the European

countries and folks have greater job satisfaction and are more

productive generally.

A week off is not long enough when working in our health care system.

Should we all wait until we retire before we travel and take time to

enjoy life a bit? I used to work in a hospital in Alaska and I saw what

happens to those folks who work hard all their life and wait until

retirement to take a long vacation somewhere. By that time most have

various medical issues and a percentage end up in the hospital and then

flown back home. And the large percentage of the rest that don't end up

in the hospital are too out of shape to take a hike through Denali, go

sea kayaking, etc....

I personally am all for allowing folks to have some time off while they

are fit enough to enjoy it.

Wade, PT

Oregon

Joe Ruzich wrote:

>

> I feel your pain. Last year I had my only other PT at the time state she

> wanted to take a MONTH off for vacation. Sure I could have said no but

> they

> know they have leverage in today's PT hiring climate. So I had a very

> hectic

> month. Sad to say but in my experience the vast majority of PT's

> really only

> look out for number one, no matter what they say or seem to project in the

> interview process. Just reality I guess.

> Hang in there.

>

> Joe Ruzich, PT

> Pueblo, CO

>

> Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

>

> I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time problem.

> It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or hire

> travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your overhead

> for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation

> is more

> than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort of

> special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they sit

> across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

> situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest

> is the

> reason I no longer desire being a director.

>

> On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

<pkovacek@...<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

<mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>

> <mailto:pkovacek%40ptmanager.com>>

> wrote:

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

I have been on both sides of this, as an employee seeking to take a month off

(to go to Europe after 4 years of employment, and little vacation taken) and as

a manager with 4 married couples at one time in a (larger) department.

I agree that it takes 2 weeks for vacations- a week to decompress and a second

to really enjoy yourself.

In my last job we had a written policy that you could not take off more than two

consecutive weeks- so I had to request an exception. My husband and I

purposefully scheduled our trip at a time that was less popular ( September-

October) for vacations. And we compromised at 3 weeks which I thought was very

gracious on the part of our employer. ( It was the trip of a lifetime!)

In preparation for leaving, we made sure that the therapist picking up our

patients had detailed notes ( even beyond the chart) and that we had had a face

to face meeting ( off company time) to answer any questions. I don't think that

is so unreasonable to expect the therapists to be willing to do- It is Just Good

( Professional) Practice!

I think if you explain the hardship that the 3rd week together imposes on your

practice then your therapists will be professional and reasonable. Then , I

would suggest that you get something into your employee handbook about limits

and exceptions processes, even in a smaller practice.

As a manager, I feel your pain, but appealing to professionalism really helped,

and worked when I had 2 couples each requesting the same 2 weeks off, and off

the same team..... The next time we looked at hiring a husband and wife team, I

was very relieved that at least they would be on different teams and locations.

It works both ways and I think you are doing a great job by allowing them the 2

weeks. I hope they recognize that!

Good luck!

Marcy Stalvey, PT, NCS

Edwin Shaw Rehab

Akron OH

>>> ppt4you@... 07/22/08 03:54PM >>>

Great answer, except that ususally they want those few extra days off AND all

the other benefits!! 'quid pro quo'

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the writer

> of

> > this posting

> > ============ ==

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them at

> > each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

> two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations. .. the first is that they don't take

> more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they want

> to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that only

> > one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

> off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

> PTAs

> > (including reassessments/ DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

> > couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation time.

> but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their request.

> > I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would you

> > let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> > normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you stand

> by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

" I personally don't know of any physicians who have taken a month at a

time off... "

You need to qualify this with " in America " . Don't blame " selfish "

employees, look at the current system. Plenty of health care folks take

4 to 6 weeks off at a time in other countries. I have relatives in

Canada and England who work in health care, they take long vacations to

travel around visiting other countries. Have a plan to hire contractors

to cover vacations. Patients can be treated and employees can take long

vacations. I do know of a MD who found locum coverage for his practice

so he could find some time to take his wife and kids on a much needed

adventure - a cross country bicycle tour. His life was much better for it!

Wade, PT

OR

We are the ones being selfish when we don't allow employees an

appropriate balance

L Proffitt wrote:

>

> Don't all fire at once, but shouldn't there be a difference in

> expectations for professional people who handle the health care of

> others? What are the patients to do if their therapist is gone for a

> month? Should their care have to be transferred to another therapist

> who will likely have some lag time in getting up to speed on their

> care? I personally don't know of any physicians who have taken a month

> at a time off unless it is for personal health reasons or for

> volunteering to provide medical care overseas, etc... If we are to

> move toward a doctoring profession, we can't have it both ways. I

> don't think we can have the 9-5 hours of a bank teller plus 1 month of

> vacation when we have assumed the responsibility to be a primary

> health care provider.

>

> Proffitt, PT

> Massillon, OH

>

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Posted
Posted

Sometimes we have to make choices between two or more less than ideal

options.

Is 3 weeks of scheduling difficulties worse than losing 2 PT's? Can you

get agency help to cover their vacation? Though it is expensive, 3

weeks (x2) of agency fees is cheaper than long term agency while trying

to fill two FT vacancies.

Expecting a married couple to take separate vacations is unrealistic.

The manager/director that hired the married PT's should have had

anticipated this situation before he/she hired the couple. The

manager/director should feel some responsibility for taking a major role

in creating this situation in the first place.

If the therapists are foreign trained (ie. from China or India, etc),

their request to take 3 weeks off makes more sense. The list serve

needs more information to make a sound judgement regarding their 3 week

request. Also, if this IS the scenario, it is doubtful that the PT

couple would request a 3 week long vacation every year.

Finally, to answer your questions:

#1. Yes. I would let them vacation together. We do not let more than

tw0 outpatient PT's off during the same week(s). We have 3 FT PT's in a

small outpatient clinic (2 prn PT's that help out occassionally). We

often have to use agency to cover vacations. If you request that your

employees give ample notice when requesting time off, you stand a better

chance to get agency coverage. Sometimes, our clinic was short staffed

for a week or two as a result of simultaneous vacations. Being short

staffed in the short run is better than losing a good employee in this

current market (IMHO). PS. Could the clinic manager pitch in and see

patients (if not already doing so) during their time off? Be creative.

#2 My answer depends on the quality of the therapists. If they are both

valuable employees and I thought that being unyielding might result in

their resignations, then yes, I would be more accommodating.

It's a difficult business decision. What couple wouldn't want to

vacation together? What manager couldn't foresee this situation before

hireing the PT couple?

Devil's advocate,

Jon Mark Pleasant, PT

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT &

two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed

to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take 2

of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married PT

couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

This sounds to me like a problem with Accountability. With that,

here's a few ideas:

1) Ask the married couple what they would like to do to make sure

their patients are covered. (but in a serious, professional way, of

course)

2) Go through the above discussion with them, and if no good

conclusion is reached where everyone is happy, let them know you will

bring this up to the whole group during the next department meeting

for discussion (maybe get both clinics together for a monthly meeting

to review vacation policies AND this particular issue).

3) While in the department meeting, ask ALL of the therapists how they

might handle this issue. Make them all accountable (because everyone

will have to step up to cover if both therapists take 3 weeks off at

the same time) - and be sure not to take a side or a stance either way

until they've given you some good solutions to consider (you can do

this while making sure they know certain stipulations have to be met).

4) If there is still no resolution to this (and you cannot or do not

want to resort to Agency staff), consider taking " whole clinic

vacations " , whereby both clinics are closed over 2 or 3 weeks during

Christmas/New Years, or you have a 2 week closure during the summer

and a one weeker during Christmas/New Years. This can work only if

you set it up early and keep your physicians/community in the loop. It

can be very beneficial because that way you do not have to mess with

variable vacations throughout the year, shuffling patients, etc. The

savings (both financially and clinically) here make up for the

potential costs of shutting down the clinic for a few weeks at a time

- because you might not only have those two weeks without charges, but

you might also have to ramp down care, then ramp it back up.

Just some thoughts-

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Director of Rehabilitation

Boulder, CO

Once these discu

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

& two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

PT couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I think we are looking, to some extent, at the wrong question.

We should not be focusing on the employer solely.  There needs to be some

responsibility subscribed to the two employees.  As professionals, should they

even ask for 3-weeks at the same time?  If the line of thinking is the patients

will not be damaged by not having our services for a short time or modified

services for a short time we do a disservice to our profession.  In fact, we

limit and marginalizes the benefits that can come from physical therapy.  Do we

want to be taken more seriously as a profession, then we need to behave in like

manner.  How do we view our profession?  Why do we do what we do?  Does what

physical therapy has to provide actually beneficial for the patient? Or, is it

simply a well paying job?  Often times the answers to these questions will

identify who you work with or who you hire.

I cannot answer your question.  However, it seems that your two PT's who have

(as I understood your scenario) have decided to place self above others.

 Granted, the vacation might and probably is warranted, yet it tells me more

about them as people than it does as professionals.  Yet, it hints to their

professionalism.  I do not mean to sound so harsh, but the scenario sounds

self-centered (that is if you as the employer has dealt with them in good fait;

that is only for the originator of this question to decide).

Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Sometimes we have to make choices between two or more less than ideal

options.

Is 3 weeks of scheduling difficulties worse than losing 2 PT's? Can you

get agency help to cover their vacation? Though it is expensive, 3

weeks (x2) of agency fees is cheaper than long term agency while trying

to fill two FT vacancies.

Expecting a married couple to take separate vacations is unrealistic.

The manager/director that hired the married PT's should have had

anticipated this situation before he/she hired the couple. The

manager/director should feel some responsibility for taking a major role

in creating this situation in the first place.

If the therapists are foreign trained (ie. from China or India, etc),

their request to take 3 weeks off makes more sense. The list serve

needs more information to make a sound judgement regarding their 3 week

request. Also, if this IS the scenario, it is doubtful that the PT

couple would request a 3 week long vacation every year.

Finally, to answer your questions:

#1. Yes. I would let them vacation together. We do not let more than

tw0 outpatient PT's off during the same week(s). We have 3 FT PT's in a

small outpatient clinic (2 prn PT's that help ou

t occassionally). We

often have to use agency to cover vacations. If you request that your

employees give ample notice when requesting time off, you stand a better

chance to get agency coverage. Sometimes, our clinic was short staffed

for a week or two as a result of simultaneous vacations. Being short

staffed in the short run is better than losing a good employee in this

current market (IMHO). PS. Could the clinic manager pitch in and see

patients (if not already doing so) during their time off? Be creative.

#2 My answer depends on the quality of the therapists. If they are both

valuable employees and I thought that being unyielding might result in

their resignations, then yes, I would be more accommodating.

It's a difficult business decision. What couple wouldn't want to

vacation together? What manager couldn't foresee this situation before

hireing the PT couple?

Devil's advocate,

Jon Mark Pleasant, PT

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT &

two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

PTAs.

0A>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to replace

two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We agreed

to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't take

more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take 2

of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes time

off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision of

PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a20pure business standpoint, our married PT

couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

As an employer, I grant earned leave time.  Regardless of whether an employee

is married or not, they get X amount of earned leave.  They earn their earned

leave every month.  Period.  If they have 3 weeks of earned leave accumulated,

they have 3 weeks of earned leave to use.  I give it with no strings

attached.  If they are an employee, they have earned it as per my employment

agreement.  I have 8 employees working for me.  We have a policy in place that

a request for earned leave be made in writing so many days before it is taken. 

If all 8 employees choose to take off at the same time, I can choose to allow as

few or many as I want to to be off at the same time.  Every year around the

Christmas and Easter Holidays we have a higher number of people wanting to take

their earned leave.  If it becomes a hardship to my clients' service, then

earned leave is allowed on a first come first served basis. 

All that said, 3 weeks out of 52 is more than 5% of the year and less than

10%.  I state that to offer perspective.  I suspect with all of the feedback

you are probably forming your own opinion.  But I think you will probably be

able to formulate a policy based upon the feedback you have received. 

Okay, off my soapbox now.  By the way, for those that have been concerned about

me the city of Cedar Rapids and the state of Iowa-we have sustained several

billion dollars of damage this year

from tornados and flooding.  We are working to return to some level of

normalcy.  For many in my city, they are facing a life changing situation. 

But the people from around the US that have appeared out of nowhere to help has

been tremendous.  There are many months of hard work ahead.  But the people

of Iowa are ready to meet the challenge..., much like the population of the Gulf

Coast did after Katrina.  We are working hard to restore our lives and

livelihood, but continue to ask for your prayers.  Thank you to all who have

called and emailed.  The support has been welcome and a blessing.  With your

encouragement, prayers and support, we will be back up and running within the

next year.  As for my business, we had to temporarily relocate to another

section of town, but are hoping to receive word that we can move back into our

downtown offices within the next 5-10 business days.  We are pretty lucky in

comparison to many other businesses.  The building we work in was beyond the

500 year flood plain and yet the basement was flooded and the first floor had

between 3-5 feet of water in it.  Floors 2-6 will be opened back up in the next

few weeks, but the build out for the basement and first floor will take about 6

months.  It is amazing how much we all take for granted. 

Jim Hall, CPA <///><

General Manager

Rehab Management Services, LLC

Cedar Rapids, IA

Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

This sounds to me like a problem with Accountability. With that,

here's a few ideas:

1) Ask the married couple what they would like to do to make sure

their patients are covered. (but in a serious, professional way, of

course)

2) Go through the above discussion with them, and if no good

conclusion is reached where everyone is happy, let them know you will

bring this up to the whole group during the next department meeting

for discussion (maybe get both clinics together for a monthly meeting

to review vacation policies AND this particular issue).

3) While in the department meeting, ask ALL of the therapists how they

might handle this issue. Make them all accountable (because everyone

will have to step up to cover if both therapists take 3 weeks off at

the same time) - and be sure not to take a side or a stance either way

until they've given you some good solutions to consider (you can do

this while making sure they know certain stipulations have to be met).

4) If there is still no resolution to this (and you cannot or do not

want to resort to Agency staff), consider taking " whole clinic

vacations " , whereby both clinics are closed over 2 or 3 weeks during

Christmas/New Years, or you have a 2 week closure during the summer

and a one weeker during Christmas/New Years. This can work only if

you set it up early and keep your physicians/community in the l

oop. It

can be very beneficial because that way you do not have to mess with

variable vacations throughout the year, shuffling patients, etc. The

savings (both financially and clinically) here make up for the

potential costs of shutting down the clinic for a few weeks at a time

- because you might not only have those two weeks without charges, but

you might also have to ramp down care, then ramp it back up.

Just some thoughts-

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Director of Rehabilitation

Boulder, CO

Once these discu

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

& two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can onl

y take

2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

PT couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question

#2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Though I may see the initial suggestion for #2 & #3, it immediately

strikes me as inappropriate and slightly unprofessional for a manager.

In this case, it is now an issue of discussion between the therapists

(PT couple) and the manager with details being very specific to this

couple and what they are requesting. Sometimes managers need to manage

and use input from staff when it is appropriate. Opening up

conversation down the road, a little after the resolution of this

specific situation, would be appropriate if the manager is looking at a

vacation policy change that will effect all employees.

I do work in education and in clinical practice.

Robyn Wilhelm, PT, MPT, DCE

Director of Clinical Education- PTA Program

Pima Medical Institute

957 S. Dobson Rd.

Mesa, AZ 85202

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On

Behalf Of Tyler

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:15 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

This sounds to me like a problem with Accountability. With that,

here's a few ideas:

1) Ask the married couple what they would like to do to make sure

their patients are covered. (but in a serious, professional way, of

course)

2) Go through the above discussion with them, and if no good

conclusion is reached where everyone is happy, let them know you will

bring this up to the whole group during the next department meeting

for discussion (maybe get both clinics together for a monthly meeting

to review vacation policies AND this particular issue).

3) While in the department meeting, ask ALL of the therapists how they

might handle this issue. Make them all accountable (because everyone

will have to step up to cover if both therapists take 3 weeks off at

the same time) - and be sure not to take a side or a stance either way

until they've given you some good solutions to consider (you can do

this while making sure they know certain stipulations have to be met).

4) If there is still no resolution to this (and you cannot or do not

want to resort to Agency staff), consider taking " whole clinic

vacations " , whereby both clinics are closed over 2 or 3 weeks during

Christmas/New Years, or you have a 2 week closure during the summer

and a one weeker during Christmas/New Years. This can work only if

you set it up early and keep your physicians/community in the loop. It

can be very beneficial because that way you do not have to mess with

variable vacations throughout the year, shuffling patients, etc. The

savings (both financially and clinically) here make up for the

potential costs of shutting down the clinic for a few weeks at a time

- because you might not only have those two weeks without charges, but

you might also have to ramp down care, then ramp it back up.

Just some thoughts-

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Director of Rehabilitation

Boulder, CO

Once these discu

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

& two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

PT couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time... but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma...

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

I have one therapist who takes 3-4 weeks off each summer to visit family in

Ireland and Sweden.  It has to be okayed by the entire PT staff by asking them

to set their vacation dates in March and April then she works her days off

around that schedule.  This gives me enough planning time to see if I need to

increase use of my perdiems and offer overtime to the rest of the staff to keep

up coverage.  It has worked out every year with everyone working together.

 Shari France

Subject: RE: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

To: PTManager

Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2008, 8:30 AM

Though I may see the initial suggestion for #2 & #3, it immediately

strikes me as inappropriate and slightly unprofessional for a manager.

In this case, it is now an issue of discussion between the therapists

(PT couple) and the manager with details being very specific to this

couple and what they are requesting. Sometimes managers need to manage

and use input from staff when it is appropriate. Opening up

conversation down the road, a little after the resolution of this

specific situation, would be appropriate if the manager is looking at a

vacation policy change that will effect all employees.

I do work in education and in clinical practice.

Robyn Wilhelm, PT, MPT, DCE

Director of Clinical Education- PTA Program

Pima Medical Institute

957 S. Dobson Rd.

Mesa, AZ 85202

From: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com] On

Behalf Of Tyler

Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 6:15 PM

To: PTManager@yahoogrou ps.com

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

This sounds to me like a problem with Accountability. With that,

here's a few ideas:

1) Ask the married couple what they would like to do to make sure

their patients are covered. (but in a serious, professional way, of

course)

2) Go through the above discussion with them, and if no good

conclusion is reached where everyone is happy, let them know you will

bring this up to the whole group during the next department meeting

for discussion (maybe get both clinics together for a monthly meeting

to review vacation policies AND this particular issue).

3) While in the department meeting, ask ALL of the therapists how they

might handle this issue. Make them all accountable (because everyone

will have to step up to cover if both therapists take 3 weeks off at

the same time) - and be sure not to take a side or a stance either way

until they've given you some good solutions to consider (you can do

this while making sure they know certain stipulations have to be met).

4) If there is still no resolution to this (and you cannot or do not

want to resort to Agency staff), consider taking " whole clinic

vacations " , whereby both clinics are closed over 2 or 3 weeks during

Christmas/New Years, or you have a 2 week closure during the summer

and a one weeker during Christmas/New Years. This can work only if

you set it up early and keep your physicians/communit y in the loop. It

can be very beneficial because that way you do not have to mess with

variable vacations throughout the year, shuffling patients, etc. The

savings (both financially and clinically) here make up for the

potential costs of shutting down the clinic for a few weeks at a time

- because you might not only have those two weeks without charges, but

you might also have to ramp down care, then ramp it back up.

Just some thoughts-

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Director of Rehabilitation

Boulder, CO

Once these discu

>

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ============ ==

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

& two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations. .. the first is that they don't

take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of PTAs

> (including reassessments/ DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

PT couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time... but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request. I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma...

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

You do have a tough situation, but I would stick to your guns. They

already have two weeks off together going to 3 weeks means you have a

total of 6 weeks in 3 blocks when you have 2 of your 3 therapists off.

That's too much with 2 clinics. I have more PTs ( at least 2 in each

site). If one from each clinic wants time off at the same time, each

must get the other PT at each site to sign off and take responsibility

for the others load. The remaining PTs can then split up the load with

any PTA's at each site ( based, of course, on the patients and their

needs).

If they don't understand that then maybe one needs to leave.

I know it's a risk, but if they significantly slow your operation down

by both being off you get hurt every year they are with you. Is it worth

it in the long run?

Good luck

Deane

W. Deane

Rehabilitations Services

Finger Lakes Health

196 North St.

Geneva, New York, 14456

Tel:

Fax:

E-Mail: deane.butler@...

>>> " Steve Marcum PT " 07/21/08 8:51 PM >>>

I wish I had a better way to put this but this is not a one time

problem.

It will occur next year and the next, unless you hire more staff, or

hire

travelers to cover during their absence each year driving up your

overhead

for those 3 weeks. Personally I feel 3 consecutive weeks of vacation is

more

than most professionals ask for and receive, unless it is for some sort

of

special educational activity or mission work. I can not see how they

sit

across from you, see your position, and justify placing you in that

situation. I understand your frustration with this, and to be honest is

the

reason I no longer desire being a director.

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:07 PM, Kovacek

wrote:

> I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

writer of

> this posting

> ==============

>

> I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

& two

> PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

PTAs.

>

> Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

at

> each

> clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace two

> contract/travelers.

>

> When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

asked to

> have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

take more

> than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2 of

> the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

want to

> be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

have

> been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

wasn't.

>

> Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

only

> one

> person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time off,

> that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

takes

> vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

it

> still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of PTAs

> (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas),

we

> generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

same

> time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and

the

> business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

PT

> couple

> probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

time… but

> then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request.

> I'd

> like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

you

> let

> them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> normally

> allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

vacation?

> If so, how large is your staff?

>

> Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover

2

> outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

stand by

> the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

>

>

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Posted
Posted

Here's my point: A partner in a law firm does not go to a " manager " to

ask for time off... A physician in a practice does not go to a

" manager " to ask for time off... They work together with their

partners to figure out how to do it; they do not ask someone else to

figure it out for them.

Do we want to be " employees " , or do we want to be " autonomous

practitioners " (as we state in Vision 2020)? We must change our own

culture first if we want the rest of society to change their views.

Shari at Carlton Rehab is on the right track. This is all just my

opinion. (By the way, we take many Denver PIMA PTA students and find

them to be very well prepared!)

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Boulder, Colorado

> >

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

> writer of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

> PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

> at each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

> replace two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

> agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

> take more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

> want to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

> have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

> only one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

> time off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

> it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

> of PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas), we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

> same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

> PT couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

> time... but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

> request. I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma...

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

> you let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover 2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

> stand by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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Posted
Posted

Stellar comeback Amy! Hats Off. For those who are harping on primary

care responsibilites, a doctor is more than well compensated for that

level of care that he provides with minimal vacation time. Those who

have stated employer side of the equation, it is called cost of doing

business. Calling a professional selfish on these grounds, is

selfish. Employees have agreed to a service, not sold their souls.

Market forces notwithstanding, PT is a professional service, and

should be able to provide level of service commensurate with

compensation. Service expectations should be stellar while on the

job. From service delivery, to productivity, to professional

advancement. Salaried professionals should not complain on hours. The

neurosurgeon making a million dollars has to trade off on his sleep.

And does not complain about it. As far as those who do not make

benefits, we all feel for them. But then, that is why we went to

professional school.

For the employer, long-range planning is paramount. Where there are

problems, there are solutions. Costs more for sure. But then, as I

said, it is, cost of doing business.

Cheers,

Bose PT MHS

> >

> > > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious

reasons

> > > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not

the writer

> > of

> > > this posting

> > > ==============

> > >

> > > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with

two

> > > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has

one PT

> > & two

> > > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and

four PTAs.

> > >

> > > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of

them at

> > > each

> > > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace

> > two

> > > contract/travelers.

> > >

> > > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new "

PTs

> > asked to

> > > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed to

> > > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they

don't take

> > more

> > > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only

take

> > 2 of

> > > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as

they want

> > to

> > > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this

should have

> > > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately

it

> > wasn't.

> > >

> > > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been

that only

> > > one

> > > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA

takes time

> > off,

> > > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When

one PT

> > takes

> > > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a

PTA, but it

> > > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and

supervision of

> > PTAs

> > > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> > >

> > > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural

areas), we

> > > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At

the same

> > > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients

and the

> > > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our

married PT

> > > couple

> > > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous

vacation time.

> > but

> > > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

request.

> > > I'd

> > > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma.

> > >

> > > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic,

would you

> > > let

> > > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do

you

> > > normally

> > > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for

scheduled

> > vacation?

> > > If so, how large is your staff?

> > >

> > > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to

cover 2

> > > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would

you stand

> > by

> > > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Posted
Posted

In my opinion, as it relates to hiring a married couple, stipulations as

to how employees choose to use their benefits (which they earn) should

be discussed BEFORE hiring not after.

I find it absurd for one PT to judge another PT (with very limited

facts) as unprofessional or self-centered for wanting to take some time

off. Without knowing all the facts, one cannot proclaim someone as

unprofessional or self-centered. Mucho Judgemental!

Statistically, Americans take less time off than most of the world.

Perhaps we are the foolish ones! Life requires balance. All work and

no play makes Jon a dull boy.

In order to NOT hurt our delicate profession, i'm henceforth abandoning

all time off. In addition, i'm going to start working 7 days a week in

order to be 2 days more professional than I have been previously.

Finally, when i'm on my death bed, i'm going to lament not putting more

time in at the office. Just kidding.

Those of you who get upset by this reply might need a vacation. :)

Jon Mark Pleasant, PT

>

> >

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

>

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

>

> writer of

>

> > this posting

>

> > ==============

>

> >

>

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

>

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

&

>

> two

>

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

>

> PTAs.

> 0A>

>

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

>

> at each

>

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace

>

> two

>

> > contract/travelers.

>

> >

>

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

>

> asked to

>

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed

>

> to

>

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

take

>

> more

>

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2

>

> of

>

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

>

> want to

>

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

>

> have

>

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

>

> wasn't.

>

> >

>

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

>

> only one

>

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time

>

> off,

>

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

>

> takes

>

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

>

> it

>

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of

>

> PTAs

>

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

>

> >

>

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas),

we

>

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

>

> same

>

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and

the

>

> > business as a whole. From a20pure business standpoint, our married

PT

>

> couple

>

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

>

> time… but

>

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

>

> request. I'd

>

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> >

>

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

>

> you let

>

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

>

> normally

>

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

>

> vacation?

>

> > If so, how large is your staff?

>

> >

>

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover

2

>

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

>

> stand by

>

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> >

>

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

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Posted
Posted

I have tried to read all the lists regarding this subject matter and

apologize in advance if I have missed one and someone has already offered the

following considerations:

1. There is a great deal of value in married PTs, married MDs, or

administrative/support staff married to PTs or MDs that work for the same

employer.

My experience in working with married couples that are employed by the same

practice/employer is that they tend to be more committed, more responsible, and

more reliable. They have to be, as their entire family income depends on it.

2. Married couples who work together take their job home each and every

day. They discuss patient problems, staffing problems, and the day-to-day

challenges we all face working in a fully managed care environment. They

discuss

these problems on their drive to and from work, over dinner, in bed, and even

on their vacation!

3. Married couples recognize the importance of working together as a team.

They also recognize that they are judged not only by their own actions and

performance, but also by the actions and performance of their spouse. It is

increasingly challenging to find employees who will assume responsibility for

their own actions and performance, much less for the actions and performance

of others.

Should this married couple be allowed to take two consecutive weeks of

vacation together? My response is YES.

Many businesses require employees take two consecutive weeks of vacation and

accordingly, plan ahead to ensure there is proper coverage for employees

during their absence. Unfortunately, the reasoning behind this decision is not

based on what is in the best interest of the employee, but instead what is in

the best interest of the business, particularly those employees who have

financial responsibilities to the business. It is far easier to note

discrepancies in cash/revenue when an employee has been out for two weeks than

it is to

note these same discrepancies when an employee has been out for one day or

one week.

Should this marred couple be allowed to take three consecutive weeks of

vacation together? My response is NO.

My reasoning has nothing to do with lost revenue to the practice,

'selfish/self-centered' interest on the part of the employee or employer, or

who is and

who is not entitled to vacation based on their professional designation,

whether it be a PT or MD. Conversely, my reasoning has to do with the sanctity

of marriage and the need for couples who work together to take the time to

focus solely on themselves and spend time with family and friends outside of

work.

I speak from experience. For more than 10 years of our 24 years of

marriage, my husband and I have worked side-by-side as business partners.

Moreover,

for the past 6 years, I have employed my mother, sister, brother-in-law and

two daughters. My only regret is that I am running out of family members

trained and/or willing to be trained to work in health care!

I predict that we will see more and more medical and health care employers

hiring family members in the future, as there are significant tax breaks for

employers who hire their spouse, children, and family members.

Additionally, I predict these same employers will relax or completely do

away with nepotism policies and recruit new employees from family members of

existing employees.

Let us never forget the value of family.

D. Cavitt, President

Medical Legal Alliance, L.L.C.

In a message dated 7/24/2008 7:29:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

jsppleasant@... writes:

In my opinion, as it relates to hiring a married couple, stipulations as

to how employees choose to use their benefits (which they earn) should

be discussed BEFORE hiring not after.

I find it absurd for one PT to judge another PT (with very limited

facts) as unprofessional or self-centered for wanting to take some time

off. Without knowing all the facts, one cannot proclaim someone as

unprofessional or self-centered. Mucho Judgemental!

Statistically, Americans take less time off than most of the world.

Perhaps we are the foolish ones! Life requires balance. All work and

no play makes Jon a dull boy.

In order to NOT hurt our delicate profession, i'm henceforth abandoning

all time off. In addition, i'm going to start working 7 days a week in

order to be 2 days more professional than I have been previously.

Finally, when i'm on my death bed, i'm going to lament not putting more

time in at the office. Just kidding.

Those of you who get upset by this reply might need a vacation. :)

Jon Mark Pleasant, PT

>

> >

>

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

>

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

>

> writer of

>

> > this posting

>

> > ============ =

>

> >

>

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

>

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

&

>

> two

>

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

>

> PTAs.

> 0A>

>

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

>

> at each

>

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

replace

>

> two

>

> > contract/travelers.

>

> >

>

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

>

> asked to

>

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

agreed

>

> to

>

> > this request with 2 stipulations. this request with 2 stipul

take

>

> more

>

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

2

>

> of

>

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

>

> want to

>

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

>

> have

>

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

>

> wasn't.

>

> >

>

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

>

> only one

>

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

time

>

> off,

>

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

>

> takes

>

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

>

> it

>

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

of

>

> PTAs

>

> > (including reassessments/ (including re

>

> >

>

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas),

we

>

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

>

> same

>

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and

the

>

> > business as a whole. From a20pure business standpoint, our married

PT

>

> couple

>

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

>

> time… but

>

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

>

> request. I'd

>

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma…

>

> >

>

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

>

> you let

>

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

>

> normally

>

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

>

> vacation?

>

> > If so, how large is your staff?

>

> >

>

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover

2

>

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

>

> stand by

>

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

>

> >

>

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> >

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Posted
Posted

I agree with you regarding the shifting of the culture within our field

first to then be able to present it to society. Good point. We (all

PTs especially and PTAs) need to emulate what we talk about and goals we

set (2020).

In the situation at hand, with a structure involving a manager and being

in the midst of an annual review, it seemed logical that they would be

asking the manager as part of job benefit negotiation.

I am glad to hear that your experience with Pima PTA students has been

good. My understanding is that they run a good program there and we are

striving to do the same here in Mesa, AZ. Our anticipated start date

for our inaugural class is November 08. I have worked in PTA education

in Ohio as well before moving to AZ. I am looking forward to assisting

in the education to produce ethical, entry-level, competent PTAs that

can be the licensed, supportive professionals we want to have assisting

PTs in the clinic.

Robyn Wilhelm, PT, MPT, DCE

Director of Clinical Education- PTA Program

Pima Medical Institute

957 S. Dobson Rd.

Mesa, AZ 85202

From: PTManager [mailto:PTManager ] On

Behalf Of Tyler

Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:20 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: Re: Married PTs and Vacation Problems

Here's my point: A partner in a law firm does not go to a " manager " to

ask for time off... A physician in a practice does not go to a

" manager " to ask for time off... They work together with their

partners to figure out how to do it; they do not ask someone else to

figure it out for them.

Do we want to be " employees " , or do we want to be " autonomous

practitioners " (as we state in Vision 2020)? We must change our own

culture first if we want the rest of society to change their views.

Shari at Carlton Rehab is on the right track. This is all just my

opinion. (By the way, we take many Denver PIMA PTA students and find

them to be very well prepared!)

Ty Keeter DPT, MHA

Boulder, Colorado

> >

> > I have been asked to post this for a member - for obvious reasons

> > Please respond to the list - not to me personally as I am not the

> writer of

> > this posting

> > ==============

> >

> > I'm a department administrator at a small, rural hospital with two

> > outpatient rehab clinics. One clinic in the smaller town has one PT

> & two

> > PTAs and the other clinic in the larger town has two PTs and four

> PTAs.

> >

> > Last year we hired two PTs (a married couple) and placed one of them

> at each

> > clinic. We already had one full-time staff PT and were able to

> replace two

> > contract/travelers.

> >

> > When their one-year employment anniversary arrived, our " new " PTs

> asked to

> > have their paid vacation increased from 10 days to 15 days. We

> agreed to

> > this request with 2 stipulations... the first is that they don't

> take more

> > than 1 week off at a time, and the second is that they can only take

> 2 of

> > the 3 weeks off concurrently. They rejected stipulation #2 as they

> want to

> > be able to take all three weeks off together. I realize this should

> have

> > been negotiated at or before the time of hire but unfortunately it

> wasn't.

> >

> > Because we're a small department, our practice has always been that

> only one

> > person at a time can have scheduled vacation. When one PTA takes

> time off,

> > that leaves 8 clinicians to absorb his or her patients. When one PT

> takes

> > vacation, some of his patients may be able to be moved to a PTA, but

> it

> > still falls on the remaining PTs to take over evals and supervision

> of PTAs

> > (including reassessments/DCs, etc).

> >

> > Since PTs remain in very short supply (especially in rural areas),

we

> > generally try to give our therapists whatever they ask for. At the

> same

> > time, we try to look out for the best interest of our patients and

the

> > business as a whole. From a pure business standpoint, our married

> PT couple

> > probably shouldn't be permitted to take any simultaneous vacation

> time... but

> > then again I can understand where they're coming from in their

> request. I'd

> > like to ask the listserv for some input on this dilemma...

> >

> > Question #1: If you hired a married PT couple at your clinic, would

> you let

> > them have all or some of their scheduled vacation together? Do you

> normally

> > allow multiple employees to be off at the same time for scheduled

> vacation?

> > If so, how large is your staff?

> >

> > Question #2: If you were in my shoes with 3 PTs and 6 PTAs to cover

2

> > outpatient clinics, would you give in to this request or would you

> stand by

> > the previous decision (and risk losing both of them)?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for your thoughts & comments.

> >

> >

> >

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