Physician Referral

[Guest guest]

I thought I would post this form given to therapy patients at a physician

owned clinic and ask the lists comments.

Newton, PT, DPT, OCS, CWS

" Your Physicians have chosen to provide therapy onsite in their office

because they believe that your therapy experience is absolutely critical to your

recovery from injury and/or surgery. By having ongoing, immediate and direct

access to your physician and his personal staff, our therapists are able to

seek counsel as well as to report on your progress- not by fax or by letter,

but

face to face with your physician.

High levels of communication aid in your care because no other therapist

knows your physician's goals, timelines and protocols better than our

therapists.

The result is a program tailored and customized to your specific needs in a

specialized environment.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/15/2006 6:05:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,

Pulaskipt@... writes:

I thought I would post this form given to therapy patients at a physician

owned clinic and ask the lists comments.

Newton, PT, DPT, OCS, CWS

" Your Physicians have chosen to provide therapy onsite in their office

because they believe that your therapy experience is absolutely critical to

your

recovery from injury and/or surgery. By having ongoing, immediate and direct

access to your physician and his personal staff, our therapists are able to

seek counsel as well as to report on your progress- not by fax or by letter,

but

face to face with your physician.

High levels of communication aid in your care because no other therapist

knows your physician's goals, timelines and protocols better than our

therapists.

The result is a program tailored and customized to your specific needs in a

specialized environment.

My subjective opinion would begin with annoyance with and distrust of the

veracity of their claims. However, they do make some very valid points if they

can support them. Then looking at the statement more objectively, I would say:

1. They are sharp marketers who have covered all the bases on convincing the

patients why they should remain a captive audience and receive services from

this POPTS arrangement.

2. If I was a competitor, recognize that I have an huge uphill battle to

attract any of these physician's patients.

If I wanted to battle this arrangment, you need to look for the untruths in

their delivery on their promises. But even if they exist, the ability to fight

back may be limited unless they are doing something illegal.

Then consider how you would respond to the statment if the begining phrase

were changed to " Your Physicians have recommended " XYZ Physical Therapy " to

provide your therapy because they believe that your therapy experience is

absolutely critical... " (and your practice is " XYZ PT " ). Would you think any

differently about the form given the patients?

W. , PT, MS

Chair, Physical Therapsit Assistant Program

Baker College of Park

4500 Enterprise Drive, Park, MI 48101

ph:

fax

cell

david.perry@...

[Guest guest]

I agree they are sharp marketers and if they were referring to me I would be

able to look my patients or anyone that is in the eye and say they refer to

me because we do great work, they do not own us so there is no under that

table directing referral for their financial gains and it is all clean and

clear and I can go to sleep every night knowing I am doing nothing that is

questionable from an ethical standpoint.

Bubba Klostermann OT, CVE, CEAS

CEO, WORK & REHAB

4546 South 14 th

Abilene, Texas 79605

phone:

fax:

email: bubklo@...

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of WORK &

REHAB, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the

individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not

one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that

you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and

delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use,

retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this

e-mail is strictly prohibited.

[Guest guest]

In my small area of Bay Area N. Ca, there are 3 large ortho groups and since

last 6 months all the 3 groups have started their own POPTs. Suddenly all

the private PTs in my area including myself are going to suffer

tremendously. How do you fight this? Suddenly I am seeing ads in the local

newspaper from other PTs like myself who are trying to sell Anodyne

treatments and other gimmicks. I can only see Direct Access as the logical

answer to this rape of our profession! If PTs are not going to rise up and

fight this kind of onslaught to our livelihood then I see all of us working

for hospitals or Kaiser and private practice is ultimatley meet a slow

death.

Hiten Dave' PT

Re: Physician Referral

I agree they are sharp marketers and if they were referring to me I would be

able to look my patients or anyone that is in the eye and say they refer to

me because we do great work, they do not own us so there is no under that

table directing referral for their financial gains and it is all clean and

clear and I can go to sleep every night knowing I am doing nothing that is

questionable from an ethical standpoint.

Bubba Klostermann OT, CVE, CEAS

CEO, WORK & REHAB

4546 South 14 th

Abilene, Texas 79605

phone:

fax:

email: bubklo@... <mailto:bubklo%40aol.com>

This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of WORK &

REHAB, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the

individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are not

one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that

you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and

delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use,

retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this

e-mail is strictly prohibited.

[Guest guest]

This is a model similar to my previous employer. Briefly outlined as follows:

Urgent Care Centers owned by corporate entity, 'A' - owned by person DW

-DO/MD/CFNP/PA/etc. staffed by corporate entity, 'B', owned by DW + MA

-PT care staffed by corporate entity, 'A'

All of the rehab is referred back to the in-house PT unless the PT's felt they

weren't able to provide the care necessary. It's a decent business model...

except, from a PT's perspective, that the business owner's are not PT's &

therefore the PT's do not receive anything more than a paycheck + an

insignificant bonus. That's the nature of business, however. The person taking

the 'risk' will be the person receiving the benefit/profit if there is any. In

their case the risk is mitigated by sending their staff home early if there

aren't any more patients for the day. It's a reasonably lean staffing model

which has to be admired... except for the staff turnover issue.

I believe they are able to get around the self referral issue by having the

corporations separate. Basically the licensed MD's/DO's/CFNP/etc. are only

staff provided by entity 'B'. They seemingly 'proudly' display on the door

placards that all the licensed medical practitioners are independently licensed

and not employees of the Urgent Care Center and furthermore that all medical

decisions are based upon the professional judgment of the providers. However,

they do receive bonuses based upon the volume of the overall clinic for medical

care and PT care.... this part, of course, is not disclosed to the

patients/clients.

Regards,

Edwin Bland, MPT, BSE

Mansfield, TX

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave,

I agree with you. I'm perfectly comfortable doing direct access.

I've had many cases which I've referred back to the MD's because I

felt they missed something... the very common... CTS Dx... with a (+)

Sperlings test & Phalens(-)... hey doc can you look at the neck &

give permission for us to address the source of the problem?.... The

problem is not just obtaining direct access... the problem is getting

the insurance company's to pay for the care... without that we're

never going to be able to do anything with the direct access we

already have in many states.

I don't think direct access for the AMA was ever about better patient

care... I believe it's always been about $$$ & control. The PT

profession as a whole needs to have a better lobby group like the MDs

& chiropractors. Somehow the chiropractors managed to lobby

themselves into the position of direct access providers & get paid by

the insurance company's... I'd put my skills up against most

chiropractors any day of the week.

So... how to convince PT's that the $400+/yr for APTA dues will

result in a stronger lobby that is aimed at obtaining payment by the

insurance co's.?

Best Regards,

Edwin Bland, MPT, BSE

Mansfield, TX

>

> In my small area of Bay Area N. Ca, there are 3 large ortho groups

and since

> last 6 months all the 3 groups have started their own POPTs.

Suddenly all

> the private PTs in my area including myself are going to suffer

> tremendously. How do you fight this? Suddenly I am seeing ads in

the local

> newspaper from other PTs like myself who are trying to sell Anodyne

> treatments and other gimmicks. I can only see Direct Access as the

logical

> answer to this rape of our profession! If PTs are not going to rise

up and

> fight this kind of onslaught to our livelihood then I see all of us

working

> for hospitals or Kaiser and private practice is ultimatley meet a

slow

> death.

> Hiten Dave' PT

>

> Re: Physician Referral

>

>

>

> I agree they are sharp marketers and if they were referring to me I

would be

>

> able to look my patients or anyone that is in the eye and say they

refer to

> me because we do great work, they do not own us so there is no

under that

> table directing referral for their financial gains and it is all

clean and

> clear and I can go to sleep every night knowing I am doing nothing

that is

> questionable from an ethical standpoint.

>

>

> Bubba Klostermann OT, CVE, CEAS

> CEO, WORK & REHAB

> 4546 South 14 th

> Abilene, Texas 79605

> phone:

> fax:

> email: bubklo@... <mailto:bubklo%40aol.com>

>

> This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of

WORK &

> REHAB, are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the

> individual or entity to whom this e-mail is addressed. If you are

not

> one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe

that

> you have received this message in error, please notify the sender

and

> delete this message immediately from your computer. Any other use,

> retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this

> e-mail is strictly prohibited.

>

>

[Guest guest]

These " letters " are laughable, no mention that the owners also

pocket all of the profits and will only accept you as a patient if

you have good insurance, funny how the continuity of care and the

importance of the PT being able to speak face to face with the

physician on a daily basis is not as important for those patients

without insurance or with poor coverage, the plain old hospital

based PT is good enough for those guys,

The other frustrating point of these things is that the doctors

claim they do it (have PT in house) because it allows them to be in

contact with the PT regularly, hey, how about returning my phone

calls once in a while if contact is so important to you, BS

E. s, PT, DPT, OCS

s Orthopedic & Spine Rehab, Inc

www.douglasspt.com

>

> I thought I would post this form given to therapy patients at a

physician

> owned clinic and ask the lists comments.

>

> Newton, PT, DPT, OCS, CWS

>

>

> " Your Physicians have chosen to provide therapy onsite in their

office

> because they believe that your therapy experience is absolutely

critical to your

> recovery from injury and/or surgery. By having ongoing, immediate

and direct

> access to your physician and his personal staff, our therapists

are able to

> seek counsel as well as to report on your progress- not by fax or

by letter, but

> face to face with your physician.

>

> High levels of communication aid in your care because no other

therapist

> knows your physician's goals, timelines and protocols better than

our therapists.

> The result is a program tailored and customized to your specific

needs in a

> specialized environment.

>

>

>

>