RE: Message for Harry

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your advice.

As a Greek author Publius said, " Many receive advice. Only the wise profit

from it. "

message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> Good for Dr. Bernstein. That does not mean that he is right. This is

> just

> another version of Dr. Atkins diet and he did not die in good health.

> That

> is why his diet has been discredited. Just because Dr. Bernstein is 72

> means nothing. His genetics and certain things such as smoking and

> drinking

> have alot to do with it.Why do you think we have dieticians for? What do

> you think there is a food guide for? Doctors in general do not know alot

> about diet. That is not their baliwick, it is a dieticians. Vitamins are

> meant to supplement, NOT replace foods that should be found in your diet.

> For example, diseases, such as rickets and scurvey are because of lack of

> vitamin C which is found mostly in fruits like oranges. Even since the

> beginning of time, man has eaten grains and fruits and vegetables. Again,

> I

> would suggest you look into the glycemic index so you eat the right kinds

> of

> foods. You are an adult, and I cannot tell you what to do, but I would

> like

> to steer you in the right direction, so you can help yourself to good

> health.

>

> Ruth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I guess you never followed the ADA diet for diabetics, where a diabetic was

encouraged to consume a total of 165 grams of carbs along with other foods

each day. It was only this year in January or February of 2006 that the ADA

finally changed their recommendation for an A1C. Previously, they advocated

an A1C of 7.0, as did also the AMa. For the first time in history of the

ADA this year they finally recommended running an A1C nearer the normal

level, and they even admitted that a normal A1C was nearer to 5.0 than it

was to 7.0 or even a 6.0.

I applaud the ADA for finally adopting recommendations that make sense.

Also your information regarding fat is just plain wrong. I will be glad to

send you a link where you can check out the facts for yourself. I do most

of my research on the internet, and most of it, if not all of it is

available to you. The secrets is in knowing what questions to ask and where

to go to look for the information. I have communicated with scientists all

over the world to verify information I publish here. What I say is not

anecdotal, but is backed up with research. I am first and foremost a

scientist, and research is the name of my game.

Message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> I would like to know where you get some of this information from? In all

> my

> 32 years as a diabetic, at NO time was I ever told to eat high carbs and

> no

> protein. It has always been a balance of carbs, proteins, fats, fruits

> and

> vegetables, and milk products. You can get nothing from fat but more fat

> on

> your body. As for the kidneys, once the kidney cells are damaged, they

> cannot come back. You can as you said slow it down or stop it for awhile.

> I had a friend who was a nurse and looked after herself impeccably and

> still

> lost her kidneys and eyesight, and know another person who has not looked

> after herself as well and did not lose anything. Genetics plays into the

> equation. As far as infections go, I was always told that these can raise

> blood sugars. Bottom line is always everything in balance!

>

> Ruth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think there are a few things to remember:

1) These people with A1c's at or below 6.0 who are getting complications, it is

not " with an A1c of 5.2 " that they get complications. If they had always had an

A1c of that level I doubt they would have complications. Anyone who was

diagnosed before Humalog came out likely didn't alway have a good A1c even if

they do now, and high A1c's in the past can lead to complications years and

years down the road. If someone runs an A1c of 9 or 10 for years on end and then

gets better control and gets their A1c down but doesn't develop complications

till a year or two after they've gotten their A1c down, it's not the new low A1c

cuasing them but the high ones in the past. And Ruth is right, genetics play a

role. I konw a person who's had type 1 for 45 years and has no complications. I

know other people who have had diabetes for less time than I have who are

developing complications. You can bet that 45 years ago it wasn't possible to

control blood sugars in the same way it is today, be

cause even 15 years ago it wasn't possible. So it is genetics and luck which

makes it so one person develops complications while another does not.

2) I, like Ruth, have never heard anyone say not to eat protein. In fact it's

always been recommended to eat carbohydrates *and* protein in combination at

meals. A lot of this advice stems from when people used regular and NPH insulins

and *had to* eat a lot of carbohydrates at meals and have snacks in between to

avoid going low. Now with Humalog and Lantus the new advice coming from doctors

and hospitals (at least all the ones I've been to) is to eat a balance of

carbohydrates, proteins, and fat as before, but to adjust insulin doses to cover

the amount of carbohydrates eaten instead of only using it to correct high blood

sugars as before. I still do not know how you can do low carb without going low.

3) A low carb diet is great for people who have a relatively fixed schedule on

most days, but I'm not sure it would work for everyone. How do you handle

exercise, either for enjoyment or as part of a job, with no carbs? I'm student

teaching right now and will tell you that teaching is exercise just by being

with young kids. Also I wonder what happens to insulin when you switch to a

low-carb diet. I've looked at the site and it looks like it's almost no carbs.

Do you then only need Lantus? For me 1 unit of Humalog covers 15 or if I'm

active 20 grams of carbohydrates, so if I didn't eat at least 15-20 grams of

carbohydrates I wouldn't be able to take insulin at a meal without going low.

Also my schedule even teaching is so variable that some days I end up low if the

kids are particularly active, while other days I end up high if a lesson goes

badly and I'm stressed, even when I eat the same foods. I don't think low carb

would stop that variability from happening. Bottom line w

hile it might work for some people I don't think it's the be-all-and-end-all of

ways to have good blood sugars.

4) I don't know about others here, but as young as 16 years old my doctor at the

Children's Hospital sat me down when my A1c was 8.1 after being in the 6s and 7s

for years (with regular and NPH insulins), and told me all of the complications

that could result from high blood sugars. I don't know any responsible doctor

who wouldn't do this. I sometimes get frustrated with my doctor when he thinks

I'm doing all right and I don't, but with diabetes the patient has to take a

certain amount of responsibility. Doctors should warn them about complications,

but if the patient wants to aim for tighter control they have to let the doctor

know this. I recently found out that the endocrinologist I see also sees most

other young adults in my area. One of those young adults I found out is on a

pump but constantly lets his blood sugars run in the 20s--all the time. He is

rebelling and right now even his doctors and parents telling him that he will

end up blind or with other complications i

sn't doing anything to change his attitude. If my doctor sees patients the same

age as me who act like this regularly then no wonder he doesn't think I'm doing

that bad of a job, and last visit for the first time he chided me for having

blood sugars of 18 and above and said 99% of those could be prevented. He's

getting the idea that I'm willing to put in the effort, which for years I

wasn't, but I had to let him know this. So many doctors try and do all they can

and have patients who just aren't willing to follow advice, so is it any wonder

that they might give up to a certain extent?

I'm in Canada and maybe the situation is different in the U.S. I certainly hear

a lot of people complain about doctors in the U.S., but I can't think that the

advice or how doctors act could be that different. This has gotten kind of

rambly but, just things I think should be considered and that a

one-size-fits-all solution shouldn't be applied to everyone.

Jen

Message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> I would like to know where you get some of this information from?

> In all my

> 32 years as a diabetic, at NO time was I ever told to eat high

> carbs and no

> protein. It has always been a balance of carbs, proteins, fats,

> fruits and

> vegetables, and milk products. You can get nothing from fat but

> more fat on

> your body. As for the kidneys, once the kidney cells are damaged,

> theycannot come back. You can as you said slow it down or stop it

> for awhile.

> I had a friend who was a nurse and looked after herself impeccably

> and still

> lost her kidneys and eyesight, and know another person who has not

> lookedafter herself as well and did not lose anything. Genetics

> plays into the

> equation. As far as infections go, I was always told that these

> can raise

> blood sugars. Bottom line is always everything in balance!

>

> Ruth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You make some excellent points. You also said, " I still do not know how you

can do low carb without going low. "

It is something you have to learn by trial and error and persistent dieting.

I have done it for four days now, and Dr. Bernstein has done it for 25 years

at least. has done it for a week or so. It can be done. and

Dr. Bernstein are type1's like you, and they learned how to do it. Instead

of paying $450 per hour for consultation with Dr. Bernstein at his office, I

recommend you purchase his CD's for $129 for type 1's to learn what he will

show you in his office. If I can do it for a few days and can do it

for a week or so, and Dr. Bernstein can do it for 25 years, I think you can

do it, too!

It is your overall health and further avoidance of any diabetic

complications I am talking about.

For me a type2 diabetic, I have yet to run a low that is problematic, and I

have yet to run a bs level higher than 124. Of course I am still in the

experimental stages, and I will probably run some lows, but so far the

lowest one has been 61. I am not exercising, so I do not take extra carbs

in the form of glucose tablets to compensate for the glucose I would burn,

if I did exercise.

Oops!, I take it back about what I said about a high for me. My wife and I

just celebrated our 13th anniversary by going out to a restaurant, and I

must have consumed more carbs than I thought, since a bs level taken just

two minutes ago revealed a bs level of 170. Of course I know exactly how

many units of Humalog to inject to get my bs level back down in the normal

range, which I did.

I never discount the role of genetics. It was drilled into me in one of my

first classes in college in 1958 thatgenotype sets the blueprint for life,

and phenotype, the role of you and your environment, determines how much of

that blueprint will be achieved or not.

" Message for Harry

>

>> Hi Harry,

>>

>> I would like to know where you get some of this information from?

>> In all my

>> 32 years as a diabetic, at NO time was I ever told to eat high

>> carbs and no

>> protein. It has always been a balance of carbs, proteins, fats,

>> fruits and

>> vegetables, and milk products. You can get nothing from fat but

>> more fat on

>> your body. As for the kidneys, once the kidney cells are damaged,

>> theycannot come back. You can as you said slow it down or stop it

>> for awhile.

>> I had a friend who was a nurse and looked after herself impeccably

>> and still

>> lost her kidneys and eyesight, and know another person who has not

>> lookedafter herself as well and did not lose anything. Genetics

>> plays into the

>> equation. As far as infections go, I was always told that these

>> can raise

>> blood sugars. Bottom line is always everything in balance!

>>

>> Ruth

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Harry,

Having gotten diabetes in 1965 at the age of 11, you don't know how strange

it sounds to hear you being so concerned about high blood sugar when you

have only been above 124 (apparently) once. There are days I go from 40 to

250, and back down again. Of course, there have been days where those

numbers have been even more extreme, but the numbers I happened to indicate

are, for me at least, fairly common, in that I probably see them occur at

least once or twice a week. I think it's hard for those of us who have been

type 1 for so many years, hard to change our thinking in how we eat, how we

look at our bg readings. I'm sure some diabetics hear me say 250 and

practically scream. Well, there are many of us who think nothing of it.

And as someone pointed out, until 15-20 years ago or so, we really had no

way to really control our diabetes, until the portable meters hit the

market. That was step one, which was significant, but the next very

significant thing was Humalog insulin. BTW, I've been as low as 22 and

functioning quite normally. I do not suggest this is good, but I have

learned that all of us have different thresholds. Some would argue the pump

plays into this discussion, but the pump isn't preferable for some of us.

Kind of like some blind folks want a dog, and others want a cane. Oh well,

just some comments from someone who wants his cake and to eat it too!

<smile>

Dave

Life is but a blink of the eye--eternity is coming...

Re: Message for Harry

> You make some excellent points. You also said, " I still do not know how

> you

> can do low carb without going low. "

> It is something you have to learn by trial and error and persistent

> dieting.

> I have done it for four days now, and Dr. Bernstein has done it for 25

> years

> at least. has done it for a week or so. It can be done.

> and

> Dr. Bernstein are type1's like you, and they learned how to do it.

> Instead

> of paying $450 per hour for consultation with Dr. Bernstein at his office,

> I

> recommend you purchase his CD's for $129 for type 1's to learn what he

> will

> show you in his office. If I can do it for a few days and can do

> it

> for a week or so, and Dr. Bernstein can do it for 25 years, I think you

> can

> do it, too!

> It is your overall health and further avoidance of any diabetic

> complications I am talking about.

> For me a type2 diabetic, I have yet to run a low that is problematic, and

> I

> have yet to run a bs level higher than 124. Of course I am still in the

> experimental stages, and I will probably run some lows, but so far the

> lowest one has been 61. I am not exercising, so I do not take extra carbs

*snip*

[Guest guest]

I have had extremely high bs readings in the 300's many times, but rarely

does this happen more than once or twice per month, and it usually happens

whenever I eat out at a restaurant. My experience with type1's has proven

for me to be very difficult for me to teach them how to maintain reasonable

bs levels and eliminate wide swings. Dr. Bernstein has been a type 1 since

age 12. If I were a type1 I certainly would find out how he does it from

the master himself by purchasing his CD's for the type 1. Just today I

purchased his CD's for the type2, and I am looking forward to finding out

how one does actually achieve and maintain " normalized " bs levels. Running

good A1C levels is no problem for me, since I know how to count carbs and

dose insulin Humalog. I want to learn how to run normalized bs levels.

I believe if he can do it, you can too. If there is a chance to get off

that roller coaster, by all means give it a shot. After listening to the

CD's five or ten times, I am hoping that some of his wisdom will stick in

me. I may have to listen 20 or 30 times, but I believe it is worth it.

Re: Message for Harry

>

>

>> You make some excellent points. You also said, " I still do not know how

>> you

>> can do low carb without going low. "

>> It is something you have to learn by trial and error and persistent

>> dieting.

>> I have done it for four days now, and Dr. Bernstein has done it for 25

>> years

>> at least. has done it for a week or so. It can be done.

>> and

>> Dr. Bernstein are type1's like you, and they learned how to do it.

>> Instead

>> of paying $450 per hour for consultation with Dr. Bernstein at his

>> office,

>> I

>> recommend you purchase his CD's for $129 for type 1's to learn what he

>> will

>> show you in his office. If I can do it for a few days and can do

>> it

>> for a week or so, and Dr. Bernstein can do it for 25 years, I think you

>> can

>> do it, too!

>> It is your overall health and further avoidance of any diabetic

>> complications I am talking about.

>> For me a type2 diabetic, I have yet to run a low that is problematic, and

>> I

>> have yet to run a bs level higher than 124. Of course I am still in the

>> experimental stages, and I will probably run some lows, but so far the

>> lowest one has been 61. I am not exercising, so I do not take extra

>> carbs

>

> *snip*

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There are so many factors and I don't know if just controlling food would

normalize blood sugars if that means keeping them steady all the time. For me it

is not that I don't know what I am doing. I know exactly how I should be able to

control my blood sugars. I've done a lot of reading and research and know what

should affect what in which way. It just doesn't always work as it is supposed

to, and I would also like more precise tools like being able to give half units

of insulin. What about exercise and stress and illness and hormones and changes

in schedules and just the unpredictability factor when all of these things are

combined? And random things like insulin pens malfunctioning or insulin

requirements changing every few weeks, which they apparently do? There are so

many factors that can make blood sugars vary not just the amount of

carbohydrates eaten.

I can do the same thing two days in a row and be high one day and normal the

next. In fact that happened to me this month when I woke up at 15.7 one morning

and was 16.9 mid-morning after giving extra insulin. The next morning I was 15.8

and gave the same amount of insulin and was 7.4 mid-morning. I had the same

breakfast both mornings and so I do not think it was food. In fact I had the

same routine both mornings as far as I can tell. I have started recording my

blood sugars again in hopes of figuring out some of these things.

Eating out at restaurants I still end up high sometimes but I split my insulin

dose and give 80% at the meal and then 20% plus an extra unit or two an hour and

a half or two hours later, and my readings are usually fine afterwards. It means

an extra injection but it usually works well. I have eaten pizza and been 5.1 a

few hours later instead of 20 like I was when I was younger. Then the only

problem is that I shoot way up overnight and end up really high in the morning.

But then that happens most of the time anyway, just not as high, so not much I

can do there.

I am not doing that great right now but if I could keep my overnight blood

sugars in a good range I would be good. As it is I am spending half of each

24-hour period high as far as I can tell. I'm going to ask my doctor about

splitting my Lantus dose into a morning and evening shot. I would be happy with

an A1c a point lower than I have it right now.

I am curious about what this doctor has to say but I am also skeptical. If it

works for some people that is great but I don't know if you can say that it will

work for everyone. I don't have $150 or whatever it would be in Canadian funds

to buy his CD set. I wonder if the library would have it. I agree that it would

do no harm to listen to them, but I am guessing that he has a more regular

schedule than a lot of people. Plus it is harder for us ladies! The roller

coaster is just a part of diabetes, at least type 1, from everyone I have talked

to.

But still, compared to where I was before I started Lantus a year and a half ago

I am doing really well. I would just like to do somewhat better.

Jen

[Guest guest]

I absolutely agree with you Jen. No one size fits all and past

history-especially for someone is a long termer-who came from an era where

there was no thought even of doing finger tip testing, much less disposable

syringes and only PZI and regular insulin existed for years. I did not even

know what an A1C was until about 10 years ago-and my first one was 9.3. I

quickly brought it down to around 7 and since I have had pump, it has been

around 6 or lower; but think of all those years since 1944 when I absolutely

did not have and had no way of even knowing how to really control my

diabetes so effectively as is available as it possible now for young

diabetics.

I love hearing a young person like you talking about controlling your

diabetes. Wish I had those advantages that you now have.

Re: Message for Harry

I think there are a few things to remember:

1) These people with A1c's at or below 6.0 who are getting complications, it

is not " with an A1c of 5.2 " that they get complications. If they had always

had an A1c of that level I doubt they would have complications. Anyone who

was diagnosed before Humalog came out likely didn't alway have a good A1c

even if they do now, and high A1c's in the past can lead to complications

years and years down the road. If someone runs an A1c of 9 or 10 for years

on end and then gets better control and gets their A1c down but doesn't

develop complications till a year or two after they've gotten their A1c

down, it's not the new low A1c cuasing them but the high ones in the past.

And Ruth is right, genetics play a role. I konw a person who's had type 1

for 45 years and has no complications. I know other people who have had

diabetes for less time than I have who are developing complications. You can

bet that 45 years ago it wasn't possible to control blood sugars in the same

way it is today, be

cause even 15 years ago it wasn't possible. So it is genetics and luck which

makes it so one person develops complications while another does not.

2) I, like Ruth, have never heard anyone say not to eat protein. In fact

it's always been recommended to eat carbohydrates *and* protein in

combination at meals. A lot of this advice stems from when people used

regular and NPH insulins and *had to* eat a lot of carbohydrates at meals

and have snacks in between to avoid going low. Now with Humalog and Lantus

the new advice coming from doctors and hospitals (at least all the ones I've

been to) is to eat a balance of carbohydrates, proteins, and fat as before,

but to adjust insulin doses to cover the amount of carbohydrates eaten

instead of only using it to correct high blood sugars as before. I still do

not know how you can do low carb without going low.

3) A low carb diet is great for people who have a relatively fixed schedule

on most days, but I'm not sure it would work for everyone. How do you handle

exercise, either for enjoyment or as part of a job, with no carbs? I'm

student teaching right now and will tell you that teaching is exercise just

by being with young kids. Also I wonder what happens to insulin when you

switch to a low-carb diet. I've looked at the site and it looks like it's

almost no carbs. Do you then only need Lantus? For me 1 unit of Humalog

covers 15 or if I'm active 20 grams of carbohydrates, so if I didn't eat at

least 15-20 grams of carbohydrates I wouldn't be able to take insulin at a

meal without going low. Also my schedule even teaching is so variable that

some days I end up low if the kids are particularly active, while other days

I end up high if a lesson goes badly and I'm stressed, even when I eat the

same foods. I don't think low carb would stop that variability from

happening. Bottom line w

hile it might work for some people I don't think it's the be-all-and-end-all

of ways to have good blood sugars.

4) I don't know about others here, but as young as 16 years old my doctor at

the Children's Hospital sat me down when my A1c was 8.1 after being in the

6s and 7s for years (with regular and NPH insulins), and told me all of the

complications that could result from high blood sugars. I don't know any

responsible doctor who wouldn't do this. I sometimes get frustrated with my

doctor when he thinks I'm doing all right and I don't, but with diabetes the

patient has to take a certain amount of responsibility. Doctors should warn

them about complications, but if the patient wants to aim for tighter

control they have to let the doctor know this. I recently found out that the

endocrinologist I see also sees most other young adults in my area. One of

those young adults I found out is on a pump but constantly lets his blood

sugars run in the 20s--all the time. He is rebelling and right now even his

doctors and parents telling him that he will end up blind or with other

complications i

sn't doing anything to change his attitude. If my doctor sees patients the

same age as me who act like this regularly then no wonder he doesn't think

I'm doing that bad of a job, and last visit for the first time he chided me

for having blood sugars of 18 and above and said 99% of those could be

prevented. He's getting the idea that I'm willing to put in the effort,

which for years I wasn't, but I had to let him know this. So many doctors

try and do all they can and have patients who just aren't willing to follow

advice, so is it any wonder that they might give up to a certain extent?

I'm in Canada and maybe the situation is different in the U.S. I certainly

hear a lot of people complain about doctors in the U.S., but I can't think

that the advice or how doctors act could be that different. This has gotten

kind of rambly but, just things I think should be considered and that a

one-size-fits-all solution shouldn't be applied to everyone.

Jen

Message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> I would like to know where you get some of this information from?

> In all my

> 32 years as a diabetic, at NO time was I ever told to eat high

> carbs and no

> protein. It has always been a balance of carbs, proteins, fats,

> fruits and

> vegetables, and milk products. You can get nothing from fat but

> more fat on

> your body. As for the kidneys, once the kidney cells are damaged,

> theycannot come back. You can as you said slow it down or stop it

> for awhile.

> I had a friend who was a nurse and looked after herself impeccably

> and still

> lost her kidneys and eyesight, and know another person who has not

> lookedafter herself as well and did not lose anything. Genetics

> plays into the

> equation. As far as infections go, I was always told that these

> can raise

> blood sugars. Bottom line is always everything in balance!

>

> Ruth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Back in the old days I always ran a " borderline " fasting blood sugar of

140-145 for a couple of years before I had my first heart attack in 1987,

and the next day the doctor came to the intensive care unit and informed me,

" Oh, by the way you are a diabetic. "

Under present day diagnostic criteria I would have been diagnosed as a

diabetic long before I ever had my first heart attack.

However if the doctor applied the same criteria as they did back then, they

would say you are running A1C's lower than 6.0, so whatever you are doing,

keep on doing it, even though I was pigging out on sugar while on oral meds.

I was never told by my doctor to restrict refined carbohydrates at any time.

Doctors did not know much back then. I am afraid the majority of them do

not know much even today.

Message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> Sounds like you could have been a diabetic long before you were diagnosed.

> You said that even after you were diagnosed, that you ate crazy things.

> You

> are not alone in this crazy making. I did it too. Our bodies crave even

> more sugar when we are not in control of our diabetes, so we keep doing

> stupid things while our bodies eat us up. It is too bad that you had to

> be

> the firstin your family. You got it under control now and that is what

> counts. Keep up the good work!

>

> Ruth

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree, Harry. Too many docs do not know about diabetes. This is

especially true of the generalists who have so many diabetics in their

caseload.

Re: Message for Harry

Back in the old days I always ran a " borderline " fasting blood sugar of

140-145 for a couple of years before I had my first heart attack in 1987,

and the next day the doctor came to the intensive care unit and informed me,

" Oh, by the way you are a diabetic. "

Under present day diagnostic criteria I would have been diagnosed as a

diabetic long before I ever had my first heart attack.

However if the doctor applied the same criteria as they did back then, they

would say you are running A1C's lower than 6.0, so whatever you are doing,

keep on doing it, even though I was pigging out on sugar while on oral meds.

I was never told by my doctor to restrict refined carbohydrates at any time.

Doctors did not know much back then. I am afraid the majority of them do

not know much even today.

Message for Harry

> Hi Harry,

>

> Sounds like you could have been a diabetic long before you were diagnosed.

> You said that even after you were diagnosed, that you ate crazy things.

> You

> are not alone in this crazy making. I did it too. Our bodies crave even

> more sugar when we are not in control of our diabetes, so we keep doing

> stupid things while our bodies eat us up. It is too bad that you had to

> be

> the firstin your family. You got it under control now and that is what

> counts. Keep up the good work!

>

> Ruth

>

>

>