Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 They are out there and a fact of life. Radio Shack sells a mobile trunk tracking scanner and has several hand held versions. Uniden Bearcat has received FCC type acceptance on their digital scanner as of August and I feel that they will be in the marketplace in time for Christmas. A local (NH) PD is looking at encryption now as they went trucked and digital to eliminate listeners. Allan Young Peace and may we always bring them home safely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 --- Wallach wrote: Besides, any criminal savy enough to use a > scanner during a crime > can easily obtain black market " official " radios, > and get them illegally > programmed with the correct encryption key. Wrong. To begin with, the encryption key is not disclosed to anyone and is changed quite frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 While running a tail on two homicide suspects, hopping to follow them to the proceeds of an armed robbery where they killed the clerk, some idiot scanner came up to one of the suspects at a gas station and said, " I think the police are following you, cause I hear them on the radio, saying you just pulled into this station. " Boy were we thrilled. Rich Wallach wrote: > Why would they want to eliminate listeners? I think it is really a > blackeye for an agency that feels a need to hide from public view, and yes, > even scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 , No, that is true, and I fully sympathize. But at the risk of sounding callous I am not sure how that necessarily contributed. Did the actor use the scanner to know when the police were responding in order to ambush them instead of fleeing? NJ used to prohibit mobile scanners. The statute I cited replaced the old law, because there was no evidence, after considerable study, that scanners were a threat to public safety, but the ban was not in the public interest. On your other point. Encrypting the control channel does not prevent monitoring an APCO-25 compliant system with a digital scanner. What it does do is require the system be monitored in conventional mode (i.e. not trunked mode). Except for very large, busy systems with extensive talkgroups, this is not much of a restriction. Trunked systems were being monitored long before the convenience of trunk-capable scanners. As for 's comment, that situation is a perfect example of an appropriate use of encryption. Further, even without encryption, good radio procedure, given that we are monitored, dictates not giving identifiable details of a sensitive operation over the air. A surveillance team knows were they are, and what they are doing, so vague or code worded communication is easily understood by the units. I hope that individual was arrested for obstruction. At 26-09-02 10:15, you wrote: >Your agency hasn't had an officer killed because the bad guy was >listening to a scanner and knew he was coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 --- Wallach wrote: > Do you really think it is hard to get the keys from > a unscrupulous radio > tech, and other illegal sources? I can't speak for everywhere, but it is here. And for me, that's what counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 A guy in our county recently committed a double-murder and escaped in a red pickup truck. Therefore, I think we should make all red pickup trucks illegal, or at least require our (already-overburdened) police to do background checks on everyone attempting to purchase a red pickup truck. Any agency that doesn't provide encryption for such sensitive and potentially dangerous operations is doing a disservice to its community, and unnecessarily endangering its officers' lives. The officers (don't they have a union or other organization looking out for their well-being?) should demand at least that much if they're going to be conducting such operations. DES and similar encryption is VERY secure, and its decoding is well beyond all but the most sophisticated techie types. And most crooks are entirely too dumb, otherwise they would be in a more sane line of work. Trunking and digital-mode technology were never designed to thwart listening, but rather to increase the efficiency of radio systems. More available use-time per frequency (trunking); and closer frequency-spacing (= more available frequencies) within a given bandwidth (digital). Harry Re: 911:: mobile scanners > While running a tail on two homicide suspects, hopping to follow them to the > proceeds of an armed robbery where they killed the clerk, some idiot scanner came > up to one of the suspects at a gas station and said, " I think the police are > following you, cause I hear them on the radio, saying you just pulled into this > station. " Boy were we thrilled. > Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 And let's not forget background checks and licenses for cell phone users. After all, they are used for false alarms, and misdirection. This is getting a little silly. Bad guys will always be bad guys, why make everyone else a victim? At 26-09-02 12:48, you wrote: >--- Harry Marnell wrote: > > A guy in our county recently committed a > > double-murder and escaped in a red > > pickup truck. Therefore, I think we should make all > > red pickup trucks illegal, > > or at least require our (already-overburdened) > > police to do background checks on > > everyone attempting to purchase a red pickup truck. > > >Thank you, Harry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 --- Young wrote: > That all works works well for the deliberate > operation. What happens > when the Rookie officer with the rookie dispatcher > working the channel > responds to a location for a routine call that turns > out to be a drug > house, do we then say ok, encrypt all radio > channels? If we do who is > going to pay for this encryption of all > transmissions? First of all, our rookie dispatchers are adequately trained. Otherwise, they are not on the radio. As for who pays for the encryption, it's already paid for. It's a standard part of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Re: 911:: mobile scanners > We have too many freedoms as it is. Now that's quite an astounding statement. Almost makes me unable to reply. Guess I'd better go back and re-read my US History and the constitution. You mean all the patriots, from the Revolutionary War, the world wars, Vietnam etc were wasting their time.. and losing their lives for the wrong cause? hm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Thank you, comrade Stalin. I thought you were my business? I am sorry, I must have confused the USA with a constitutional republic. At 26-09-02 13:47, you wrote: >We have too many freedoms as it is. Citizens don't >need scanners. If it's any of their business what >calls the police are on, we'll let them know. >Otherwise, they need to mind their own business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 > No, that is true, and I fully sympathize. But at the risk of sounding > callous I am not sure how that necessarily contributed. Did the actor use > the scanner to know when the police were responding in order to ambush them > instead of fleeing? ******************************************************************** Didn't Minnesota have a law like that? Do they still have it? Iowa State Patrol Communications, Cedar Rapids Werling NØXZY scott@... http://www.ia.net/~anachamb/pumpkin.html http://www.jonescountytourism.com http://www.earthsat.com/wx/dotwx/winter_roads.html I have a new address for my Olympic photos. http://www.photoisland.com Login: ridgeroader password: blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Arizona dispatchers, I'm just getting ready to take my acjis test and would appreciate any input anybody can give to me. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 > > We have too many freedoms as it is. > > Now that's quite an astounding statement. Almost makes me unable to reply. > Guess I'd better go back and re-read my US History and the constitution. You > mean all the patriots, from the Revolutionary War, the world wars, Vietnam etc > were wasting their time.. and losing their lives for the wrong cause? > hm ******************************************************************** Funny thing to bring up here. Funny odd that is. I worked with a guy that said the same thing, and he was in the military! I always asked him what should we give up? Never had an answer for that. But that is one of the most bizarre statements I've seen. Harry, you are right on the money. Well done. Iowa State Patrol Communications, Cedar Rapids Werling NØXZY scott@... http://www.ia.net/~anachamb/pumpkin.html http://www.jonescountytourism.com http://www.earthsat.com/wx/dotwx/winter_roads.html I have a new address for my Olympic photos. http://www.photoisland.com Login: ridgeroader password: blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 > Can we switch subjects please/// What's for dinner? ******************************************************************** Xyl and I are going out. Can we pick you up or do u want to meet us somewhere? Iowa State Patrol Communications, Cedar Rapids Werling NØXZY scott@... http://www.ia.net/~anachamb/pumpkin.html http://www.jonescountytourism.com http://www.earthsat.com/wx/dotwx/winter_roads.html I have a new address for my Olympic photos. http://www.photoisland.com Login: ridgeroader password: blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 I think I would give up the right to color tv/3 squares a day/fresh linen/all at taxpayers expense after raping and pillaging a village and getting caught. Simple yes, but that's me. > Bob ******************************************************************** Actually you have no choice in that matter IF convicted. But then, only a village? What about an unincorporated town? Iowa State Patrol Communications, Cedar Rapids Werling NØXZY scott@... http://www.ia.net/~anachamb/pumpkin.html http://www.jonescountytourism.com http://www.earthsat.com/wx/dotwx/winter_roads.html I have a new address for my Olympic photos. http://www.photoisland.com Login: ridgeroader password: blah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 <<< We have too many freedoms as it is.>>> I tried to talk myself out of this, but I wasn't loud enough. The word " rights " is mentioned in the definition of freedom. I think I would give up the right to color tv/3 squares a day/fresh linen/all at taxpayers expense after raping and pillaging a village and getting caught. Simple yes, but that's me. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Can we switch subjects please/// What's for dinner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 <<Can we switch subjects please/// What's for dinner?>> Fine, everytime I get a chance to say something stupid, someone pulls the plug on the whole thing.....:-) Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Subject: Re: 911:: mobile scanners Can we switch subjects please/// What's for dinner? Hmmm, let me " scan " the menu options -- opps, sorry! Perhaps we should just back to speculating about our " New Member! " -- that sounds like more fun, and likely more productive as well. ~~ Woody ~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 <<What about an unincorporated town?>> I used to live in one of those. We are now an official little city with round-a-bouts, 1 way roads, and striped bicycle lanes that are used by joggers, the bicyclists like to ride with the big boys in the wide lane part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2002 Report Share Posted September 26, 2002 Do all dinners in Iowa have corn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 And you also might as well start doing background checks on all ham radio operators as well as most have at least one radio that at least receives (if not also transmits on) the public safety band. Allan Young KB1GZE Peace and may we always bring them home safely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 When scanners are out-lawed, only criminals will have scanners. Randy Mace Life member NRA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 Also background checks on Foreman grilling machines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2002 Report Share Posted September 27, 2002 >The point is, let the public monitor, and the media. If you have something " secret " to say, use a telephone or have 1 channel encrypted, or just turn the encryption on as needed, leaving it off the rest of the time.< I've missed most of this thread, but I'm going to weigh in on the side of " let 'em listen " .... We work for the public. The air-waves are public. Sure, there are times communications need to be secure, we can do that... I remember years ago, I was working for a small Police Department, who really disliked the media and " scannerland " . I was at the academy and decided to visit Indianapolis Police Departments brand new Communications Center, and the question of scanners came up... IPD gladly furnished code cards to the public and the media. Let 'em listen.. we've got nothing to hide. As far as " mobile " scanners in vehicles, it's illegal in Indiana unless you have a letter from the head of each agency you monitor. Exceptions from public safety personnel. Weintraut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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