Re: Baking Soda Problem

[Guest guest]

Jane,

When I started doing sitz baths with baking soda it did get

worse before it got better but that was b/c of how raw I was. I

don't have cytolytic vaginosis.

Dr. out in AZ recommends using baking soda douches I think

to help with yeast infections. That might be why I didn't get

yeast infections for several years before I started having

problems with the vulvodynia (long story).

But when I do the sitz baths now I use baking soda mixed with

sea salt and that helps keep the rawness down.

I'm sorry that I can't be of more help. Please feel free to

e-mail me directly.

=====

Kristy

http://www.geocities.com/sokokl/kristyspersonalpage.html

Hoping to be a nurse soon but for now just a Medical Secretary who does a lot of

learning from reading on the Net, books, my dr(s), as well as sharing my own

personal experiences.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Jane,

You could well be getting thrush. Baking soda douches lower acidity (a

higher pH means lower acidity), and this slow the growth of

lactobacilli. Since lactobacilli are what normally protect you against

a yeast infection (this is why taking antibiotics can give people

thrush), baking soda douches can create a situation in which yeast

grows. For this reason, people who are prone to thrush shouldn't do

baking soda douches. I always tell people that if at all possible they

should get a diagnosis of cytolytic vaginosis before trying the baking

soda, because if what you have is not cytolytic vaginosis, baking soda

soaks/douches could make you worse. Of course, getting a diagnosis is

easier said than done, so it is understandable that people try it

anyway!

My experience with baking soda douches was that they were immediately

soothing. I certainly didn't get worse before I got better. I did them

2x/week for 6 weeks. Within the 1st week my redness and rawness had

started to subside, and by the end of week 2 I was looking pretty

normal. I had to continue with the douches or else the overgrowth would

reccur, but after 6 weeks I ended up with a yeast infection. At that

time I stopped the douches, took a week's course of oral diflucan (NO

intravaginal treatments!), and the yeast went away. To my relief my

cytolytic vaginosis never returned either.

I strongly suspect that you are getting a yeast infection, and as has

already been talked about, chronic yeast/yeast allergy is another

possible cause of cyclic vulvovaginitis. I would recommend that you (1)

discontinue the baths, (2) get to a doctor who can take a culture for

yeast, and (3) if you do have yeast, take oral medications only. For me

I suspect that intravaginal canesten pessaries may be what trigerred my

cytolytic vaginosis in the beginning.

Where do you live? Are you able to track down a good specialist near

you who can diagnose low amounts of yeast versus cytolytic vaginosis?

Hope you are feeling better soon.

aandrea

xxx

> Hi it's Jane again,

>

> Re the Cytolytic Vaginosis theory. I have tried a few baking soda baths but

think I am getting thrush. Do you know if raising the acidity levels could cause

this? I feels very irritated like the surface of the skin is moving around, the

skin looks and feels puffy and sore over a wider surface area than where the

usual soreness is, but I'm not really all that itchy. Any ideas? Do you know if

the baking soda baths make things worse before they get better? I am tempted to

get an oral thrush tablet to see if it stops but some of the literature says not

to treat for thrush at the same time and in the past these have made me feel

worse.

>

> I am a bit confused and not sure what to do next! if anyone has any ideas I

would welcome them.

>

> Jane xxx

[Guest guest]

> Hi it's Jane again,

>

> Re the Cytolytic Vaginosis theory. I have tried a few baking soda

baths but think I am getting thrush. Do you know if raising the

acidity levels could cause this? I feels very irritated like the

surface of the skin is moving around, the skin looks and feels puffy

and sore over a wider surface area than where the usual soreness is,

but I'm not really all that itchy. Any ideas? Do you know if the

baking soda baths make things worse before they get better? I am

tempted to get an oral thrush tablet to see if it stops but some of

the literature says not to treat for thrush at the same time and in

the past these have made me feel worse.

>

> I am a bit confused and not sure what to do next! if anyone has any

ideas I would welcome them.

>

> Jane xxx

Jane,

Not all thrush (candida infection) brings on itching. This is the

main reason why so many doctors dismiss the idea of yeast. The common

symptoms are: Itching/ White clumpy discharge. It all depends on the

TYPE of yeast.

A girl named Robin on this list had an uncommon yeast called: C.

Glabrata (aka T. Glabrata). This one does not always produce itch or

thick discharge. It is hard to culture and takes a powerful

microscope to do that and a longer culture time. You can ask them to

SPECIFICALLY culture for it and ask them to double the culture time as

well.

If you have any yeast, baking soda will make it worse. Baking soda

lowers pH, making a great breeding ground for yeast. High pH is when

you start to see bacterias like gardnerella (aka bacterial vaginosis),

strep B and a few others.

Here is my limited knowledge of pH:

Low pH is alkaline--therefore, add acid (vinegar, boric acid etc)

High pH is acid--add alkaline (baking soda)

Normal pH is goal 3.8 to 4.2 (may vary slightly depending on who

tells you this)

Yeast lives in low pH and many times in just the lower end of normal.

Boric Acid suppositories are a great do it yourself help for that.

You get boric acid powder and some empty 00 gelcaps (health food store

or pharmacy) Fill the gelcaps 3/4 full. Put one in per night for 14

nights. Now--because it is acid, it can cause superficial burning

when it leaks out. To avoid that, you can apply a coating of vaseline

or aquaphor to the skin. Insert the cap, put on a minipad to catch

the discharge and then wash as soon as possible in the morning. Boric

acid works like a lemon in your mouth--it makes you " juicy " and your

insides will water more as it breaks down, hence the discharge.

I would first see a doctor, have your pH tested, check for ANY yeast

as some women can be in serious distress with just a few of those

buggers. The doctor will have you believe that it takes a whole

colony of 1000's before you can say you have an " infection " which in

most women, this is true. If you are allergic or sensitive to

yeast--it only takes a few. I know that it is very expensive but Dr.

in Phoenix AZ USA is very well known for finding Glabrata and

other uncommon yeasts right at your first visit. He uses a higher

power microscope than others. I wonder if your doctor there could

prepare a slide and have it sent to him but I am not sure how long

yeast would live before he got it.

Glabrata yeast is hard to find. The most common yeast for women is

Albicans but sometimes other uncommons take over. One word of

warning--Do NOT use monistat (Miconazole Nitrate) over the counter

cream!!! Many women have ended up far worse after using it. I think

yeast is becoming immune to it and it creates a super strain yeast

that is harder to find and harder to cure.

Pure Aloe Vera gel is very soothing to the skin. It helps repair

damaged skin as well.

Here is one women's story:

http://www.thewebpaige.com/vpf/200007/msg00076.html

Good luck! Remember that CV and Yeast have the same symptoms and a

doctor needs to be able to tell the difference via culture.

Lynn