Re: fluctuating ketones mid morning

[Guest guest]

Dear Jill,

I am wondering what times your daughter eats her meals and how

many per day?

I found from early on in the diet it was best to keep the time in between

eating regular to help prevent swinging ketones and blood sugar levels.

Leah has 4 meals per day....on weekend and holidays she eats 4 equal meals

at 7.30am, 11am,3pm and 6.30pm

On school days the meal she would normally eat at 11am i divide into 2 equal

parts and Leah eats 1/2 at recess at 11am and 1/2 at 12.45pm or

luchtime...she then eats straight after school at 3.30pm.

This way she gets to eat when the other kids too, which makes her feel more

'normal " !

cheers, Jeanette in Australia, mum to Leah,sz free,med free

>From: janda2@...

>Reply-To: ketogenic

>To: ketogenic

>Subject: fluctuating ketones mid morning

>Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 17:36:39 +0800

>

>Hi,

>I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently

>having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16). However I have

>noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8 and that is

>the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml of water at recess

>whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower ketones & sz,

>but today I know she didn't drink much.

>

>Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about it?

>Many thanks,

>Jill

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Never had it happen personally but I would suggest a mid morning snack

to keep ketones up

janda2@... wrote:

Hi,

I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently

having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16).

However I have

noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8

and that is

the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml

of water at recess

whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower ketones

& sz,

but today I know she didn't drink much.

Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about

it?

Many thanks,

Jill

[Guest guest]

Jill,

This is what happens with , high ketones all through the night, and when he wakes,but by 11.00 am his level is between 1.5 & 4. This has become a trend over the last three weeks. He still doesn't have seizures unless weaning during the day (that I can see, anyway) but the morning is definitely worse for him cognitively. I was putting his deterioration in the am down to morning meds being at their peak, but now I'm not so sure, could be sub clinical seizure activity creeping through with low ketones.

Our theory with the drop was that has his morning meds with a small amount of water soon after waking, before breakfast. We thought that even though his meds have a 'trace' only of carbos, that this, in combination with water on an empty stomach was the culprit. We are currently experimenting with giving meds to swallow with his cream and oil 'milkshake' to see if this works, then following up later with breakfast. has never been a breakfast person, so waiting for him to eat before giving the meds could be asking for trouble.

If this experiment doesn't help, we were going to try what suggested.

Speaking of which, if we have a set meal plan for breakfast, can we simply divide everything in half and give one half at breakfast, and the other for morning tea, and give the normal lunch and dinner menus? Presume this is okay, but might wait and see if anyone here tells me not to try this, rather that we should be splitting 's whole daily menu into four instead of three.

While I'm in question mode....

had what I think was the 'sediment' I have seen you all describe in his urine today. Pinky brown colour, most like fine sand particles, but some slightly bigger. Is this the beginning of the dreaded kidney stones? His last 'wee' tonight, had nothing in, does it fluctuate like this? If it is that, apart from getting him to drink more, should we be getting any tests done, or doing anything else?

Re drug weaning, has anyone considered hospital admission with a quick wean under supervision, rather than the six or so months we see ahead of us? I would be happy to follow a 'drib and drab' schedule, if I didn't feel the drugs were contributing to his night seizures, and I can't see the logic of putting through the 20 or so daytime breakthrough 'flurries' I know are going to come with each reduction. Has anyone done big reductions, ie: got them over and done with, and had 'disastrous' consequences?

Thanks for any input,

Hill (mother to , nearly 5 in NZ)

Re: fluctuating ketones mid morning

Never had it happen personally but I would suggest a mid morning snack to keep ketones up janda2@... wrote: Hi, I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16). However I have noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8 and that is the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml of water at recess whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower ketones & sz, but today I know she didn't drink much. Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about it? Many thanks, Jill "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

Jill, I have been told that the body has two peak ketone times each day, at

around 9am and again at about 3pm. I guess this varies somewhat for each

individual, but also wonder if it can be related to timing and size of

meals, drinks, snacks, as Jeanette was alluding to. Hannah is totally tube

fed so I am not in a position to advise about food and its timing.

(Hannah's mum, Melbourne)

----- Original Message -----

> I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently

> having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16). However I have

> noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8 and that

is

> the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml of water at recess

> whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower ketones & sz,

> but today I know she didn't drink much.

>

> Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about it?

> Many thanks,

> Jill

[Guest guest]

RICHARD HILL wrote:

had what I think was the 'sediment' I have seen you all describe in his

urine today. Pinky brown colour, most like fine sand particles, but some

slightly bigger. Is this the beginning of the dreaded kidney stones? His

last 'wee' tonight, had nothing in, does it fluctuate like this? If it

is that, apart from getting him to drink more, should we be getting any

tests done, or doing anything else?

Could just be that he is dehydrated and not stones at all. I would push

fluids a little and get the stix that test for blood. If he is showing

postive for blood, then it is either UTI or stones and should be check

out

Good luck

[Guest guest]

Hi . Jack's ketones do the same thing and we've noticed over the past 1-2 weeks that he is so much quieter mid morning leading up to lunch, when he improves dramatically. After lunch his ketones are back up to 8 and he's full of beans. He is having a morning snack of 100 calories but that hasn't improved it. Even though he doesn't have seizures, his behaviour is different at this time. I also wish I could figure it out.

Sue - Mum to Jack 3 1/2 and Molly 19 months

Re: fluctuating ketones mid morning

Never had it happen personally but I would suggest a mid morning snack to keep ketones up janda2@... wrote: Hi, I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16). However I have noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8 and that is the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml of water at recess whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower ketones & sz, but today I know she didn't drink much. Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about it? Many thanks, Jill "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

,

Thanx for that, do I presume UTI is urinary tract infection? Why would the sediment appear if he is dehydrated, what 'forms' it? Would there be other 'body signs' if it is just dehydration?

Hill (mother to in NZ)

Re: fluctuating ketones mid morning

RICHARD HILL wrote: had what I think was the 'sediment' I have seen you all describe in his urine today. Pinky brown colour, most like fine sand particles, but some slightly bigger. Is this the beginning of the dreaded kidney stones? His last 'wee' tonight, had nothing in, does it fluctuate like this? If it is that, apart from getting him to drink more, should we be getting any tests done, or doing anything else? Could just be that he is dehydrated and not stones at all. I would push fluids a little and get the stix that test for blood. If he is showing postive for blood, then it is either UTI or stones and should be check out Good luck "The Ketogenic Diet....a realistic treatment option, NOT just a last resort!" List is for parent to parent support only. It is important to get medical advice from a professional keto team! Subscribe: ketogenic-subscribe Unsubscribe: ketogenic-unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

We've had this problem since starting the diet. Gillian's always

been +8 in the morning and +8 at night but inbetween she drops to

sometimes as low as +.5. We have her on restricted cals because she

keeps gaining wieght and some MCT oil now (as well as her Omega

blended oil). This has increased her ketones some, now they only

drop to around 4+ during the day. She just started this about 8 or 9

days ago and the last four days her siezure control is much better so

I'm hopeful were headed in the right direction. Nothing else has

work to raise her ketones. We have tried carnitine, a mid morning

snack, and she only gets 4 ounces (125mls) of fluid every hour and a

half to two hours, any more dilutes her ketones to much. Our keto

team thinks she's odd because her ketones dip so much but I think a

lot of people only check ketones in the morning and at night so maybe

they don't realize they dip during the day. Some kids may not need

their ketones to be so high for siezure control; thus, they get

through the low times without breakthrough siezures and maybe without

anyone realizing their ketones are low. Anyways, starting to ramble,

sorry. Good luck!

Liz4Gillian

> Hi,

> I wonder if anyone has advice on the problem we are currently

> having. About 7am my daughter's ketones are strong (16). However

I have

> noticed that between 11-1 (before lunch) they are dropping to 8 and

that is

> the time she has a seizure. Thursday she drank 750ml of water at

recess

> whilst at school - I thought that was the cause of her lower

ketones & sz,

> but today I know she didn't drink much.

>

> Has anyone else had this problem and if so, what did you do about

it?

> Many thanks,

> Jill

[Guest guest]

RICHARD HILL wrote:

,Thanx

for that, do I presume UTI is urinary tract infection? Why would the sediment

appear if he is dehydrated, what 'forms' it? Would there be other 'body

signs' if it is just dehydration?

Yes, UTI is urinary tract infection.

I don't know exactly why the sludge forms when some kids are dehydrated,

its something to do with the diet because I have heard it called "keto

sludge" and the solution always being to push fluids but I don't know much

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