Re: I need to get thrush!

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I got a bad case of thrush from Cipro. It's not one that *normally* carries

a high risk, or so I was told...but, I sure developed a SEVERE case of it

from taking Cipro. Hope this information is helpful!

Carla )

[Guest guest]

I wonder why he wouldn't know that or call a pharmacy and ask?

Cephlasporins are good for causing thrush, and I assume you can't take

Augmenten, which will do it too. As will any drug in the quinelone family.

Foods that feed Candida. Sugar and simple carbs.

Lona

: Hi all

:

: Back from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back with

: a vengeance and has stopped responding to the topical treatments. I

: have way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr wants

: me to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other way

: and get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush to

: solve the problem.

Also any advice for other things like foods etc

: that feed candida?

:

: I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the number

: of lactobacilli down.

:

: Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge but

: don't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in lock

: syndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urine

: infection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give the

: same problems.

:

: Thanks for your help and support as always.

:

:

:

:

[Guest guest]

Augmentin contains penicillin. I agree with Lona that should be able to

choose an antibiotic which will do the job.

Ora

>I wonder why he wouldn't know that or call a pharmacy and ask?

>Cephlasporins are good for causing thrush, and I assume you can't take

>Augmenten, which will do it too. As will any drug in the quinelone family.

>Foods that feed Candida. Sugar and simple carbs.

>

>Lona

>

>: Hi all

>:

>: Back from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back with

>: a vengeance and has stopped responding to the topical treatments. I

>: have way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr wants

>: me to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other way

>: and get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush to

>: solve the problem.

>Also any advice for other things like foods etc

>: that feed candida?

>:

>: I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the number

>: of lactobacilli down.

>:

>: Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge but

>: don't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in lock

>: syndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urine

>: infection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give the

>: same problems.

>:

>: Thanks for your help and support as always.

>:

>:

>:

>:

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

, what type of reaction do you get from

penicillan if you take it? Just curious as I am

allergic to penicillan as well...I'll tell you it sure

does give you a yeast infection with a BAM..eewww!

--- claire.sharp@... wrote:

> Hi all

>

> Back from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic

> vaginosis is back with

> a vengeance and has stopped responding to the

> topical treatments. I

> have way too many lactobacilli and a lot of

> cytolysis. Dr wants

> me to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the

> balance the other way

> and get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat

> the thrush to

> solve the problem.

>

> Thing is I'm allergic to penicillin and he's not

> sure which other

> antibiotics are good at giving thrush. Any ideas

> from those who are

> very prone to it? Also any advice for other things

> like foods etc

> that feed candida?

>

> I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to

> get the number

> of lactobacilli down.

>

> Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy

> discharge but

> don't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency

> (key in lock

> syndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't

> have a urine

> infection. Just goes to show that lots of these

> conditions give the

> same problems.

>

> Thanks for your help and support as always.

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Have you searched the web for information about cytolytic vaginosis. Here is

one link that I found.

http://www.vitanica.com/cytolytic_vaginosis.htm

It mentions treatments such as sitz baths etc. Have you tried those?

The goal of therapy is aimed at reducing the overgrowth

of lactobacilli and providing relief of symptoms. Use of

antifungal agents, both conventional and alternative,

should be discontinued because these agents may

contribute to the recurring nature of the condition. Use

of lactobacilli in the form of yogurt, supplements and

suppositories should be stopped. It may also be wise to

discontinue use of tampons because unimpeded

menstrual flow acts much like an alkalinizing agent,

raising the vaginal pH and inhibiting the overgrowth of

lactobacilli.

Baking soda sitz baths offer relief by removing irritating

acid secretions from contact with the vulvar tissues and

also just a local soothing effect to excoriated tissue

from itching. Mix 2 to 4 tablespoons of baking soda in 1

to 2 inches of warm bath water. Sit in the sitz bath twice

a day for 15 to 20 minutes. Wash the tub after each use.

Baking soda douches should be reserved for women

whose symptoms do not respond to the sitz baths. This is

because douching removes vaginal secretions and can

disrupt the desired organisms in the vagina and create

further problems in maintaining an ecological balance.

Consider douching with baking soda once or twice a

week during symptomatic phases when the sitz baths do

not provide relief. Mix 1 to 2 teaspoons of baking soda in

a pint of warm water and gently douche either in the

bathtub or over the toilet.

Cytolytic vaginosis may coexist with candidiasis and

may need to be managed by combining therapy for both.

Using the local antifungal agent in the morning and the

baking soda gentle douche in the evening for seven days

would be an appropriate regime that may need to be

repeated monthly in the premenstrual phase of the cycle.

Other recommendations may prove prudent:

1.Reduce dietary sugar.

2.Avoid soap in the genital area. Instead, wash with

plain water, use pure unscented mineral oil on

cotton balls as a cleanser.

3.Wear white, all cotton underwear and launder with

mild soap and hot water, rinsing thoroughly.

4.Avoid sexual intercourse during symptoms and

initial therapy. Oral sex should also be avoided

during symptomatic periods because bacteria in the

partner’s mouth may be irritating to the vulva.

Summary

As women and clinicians become aware of CV, women

with cyclic vulvovaginitis will receive better health care

and be managed more appropriately. With improved

diagnosis of this condition and accurate treatment,

fewer women will experience cyclic recurrences of their

vaginitis. Success is especially seen when the wrong

treatments are discontinued and something as simple as

using menstrual pads are used instead of tampons.

Treatment approaches to treat CV must be modified as

necessary and practitioners must recognize the

individual needs of each patient and be willing to be

creative and somewhat experimental, utilizing the basic

concepts and understanding of CV that we have

discussed here.

There are many more at:

http://www.alltheweb.com/search?cat=web & lang=any & query=cytolytic+vaginosis

Ora

On Wed, 05 Sep 2001 15:07:03 +0000, claire.sharp@... wrote:

>Hi all

>

>Back from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back with

>a vengeance and has stopped responding to the topical treatments. I

>have way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr wants

>me to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other way

>and get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush to

>solve the problem.

>

>Thing is I'm allergic to penicillin and he's not sure which other

>antibiotics are good at giving thrush. Any ideas from those who are

>very prone to it? Also any advice for other things like foods etc

>that feed candida?

>

>I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the number

>of lactobacilli down.

>

>Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge but

>don't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in lock

>syndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urine

>infection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give the

>same problems.

>

>Thanks for your help and support as always.

>

>

>

>

>

>*****END OF MESSAGE*****

>-------------------------------------------------

>To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

> Unsubscribe: VulvarDisorders-unsubscribe

> List owner: VulvarDisorders-owner

>

>*****

[Guest guest]

I agree with the others, it is Dr. ' job to figure out what to

give you, he is the doctor!

I will say that when I was having problems with yeast, it was because

of a hormonal imbalance plus eating food that I was allergic to every

day. Even now, if I cheat alot and eat foods I am allergic to I will

get a vaginal yeast infection. Maybe you get too much lactobacilli

instead of yeast?

I thought I read somewhere that baking soda douches I believe, were

good for treating overgrowth of lacto. Why on earth would he want you

to actually go as far as to get an overgrowth of yeast? I know I am

not a doctor but that does not sound right to me. You need to figure

out *why* you keep getting too much lacto, not just give you a yeast

overgrowth.

Just my opinion...

in SF

> Hi all

>

> Back from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back

with

> a vengeance and has stopped responding to the topical treatments. I

> have way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr

wants

> me to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other

way

> and get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush to

> solve the problem.

>

> Thing is I'm allergic to penicillin and he's not sure which other

> antibiotics are good at giving thrush. Any ideas from those who are

> very prone to it? Also any advice for other things like foods etc

> that feed candida?

>

> I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the number

> of lactobacilli down.

>

> Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge but

> don't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in lock

> syndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urine

> infection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give the

> same problems.

>

> Thanks for your help and support as always.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I've been seeing Dr. also, and will travel to see him for the 5th time Sept. 14. Anyway, I have vestibulitis, but also had cytolitic vaginosis at first too. He also tried to give me a yeast infection to then treat and help kill off the lactobaccili overgrowth. He had me use Cleocin inserted vaginally. I never did get a yeast infection, but the cytolitic vaginosis has gone away now from doing baking soda douches twice a week. Unfortunately though I still have the vestibulitis, and that is why I've still been having to go to him until he can give me the right treatment that will finally get rid of it. Right now he's been having me use Estrace topically 2-3 times a day, and though it doesn't hurt to be putting it on, I am finding no relief in pain. I have had this disease for at least 8 years now if not 9 so maybe it's just taking time for the Estrace to work. When I see him next week he is going to decide whether he feels the next step will be surgery. I'm really hoping not. Anyway, back to the cytolitic vaginosis, I hope it will go away for you too as it did for me. Pain free days to all Dauphinais I need to get thrush! Hi allBack from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back witha vengeance and has stopped responding to the topical treatments. Ihave way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr wantsme to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other wayand get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush tosolve the problem.Thing is I'm allergic to penicillin and he's not sure which otherantibiotics are good at giving thrush. Any ideas from those who arevery prone to it? Also any advice for other things like foods etcthat feed candida?I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the numberof lactobacilli down.Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge butdon't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in locksyndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urineinfection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give thesame problems.Thanks for your help and support as always.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I haven't really anything to add on how to get thrush, but I do have to

say that it sounds like a pretty drastic solution to me. I worry that

it might create more problems that it solves. That said, in my case, my

cytolytic vaginosis did finally disappear when I got a yeast infection

(brought on I think by the baking soda douches plus steroid cream use

plus estrogen patch), but for me at least, yeast infections are

incredibly unpleasant and I wouldn't wish one on anyone. I think it was

important that I used only oral diflucan to treat that infection, NO

canesten pessaries like the previous times. I suspect that the canesten

pessaries i used to treat my first ever yeast infection may have been

the original trigger for my cytolytic vaginosis.

I wonder why your cytolytic vaginosis came back after it was so much

better before, and why it is not now responding to the douches? I

thought Ora's post (with the info about using pads, etc) was really

good, and I have a couple of other suggestions. I found it essential to

avoid eating live lactobacilli (e.g. in live yoghurt) when I had CV -

if I did, I'd get a flare-up the next day. Also, there are 3 medical

articles on CV, and I wonder if there might be some info somewhere in

them on the causes/treatment of recurrent/persistent CV. The articles

are:

Hutti MH, Hoffman C.(2000) Cytolytic vaginosis: an overlooked cause of

cyclic vaginal itching and burning.J Am Acad Nurse Pract.12(2):55-7.

Secor RM.(1992) Cytolytic vaginosis: a common cause of cyclic

vulvovaginitis. Nurse Pract Forum. 3(3):145-8.

Cibley LJ, Cibley LJ. (1991) Cytolytic vaginosis. Am J Obstet Gynecol.

165(4 Pt 2):1245-9.

Perhaps you can go to a medical school library and look these papers

up? Unfortunately I no longer have access to a good medical library,

otherwise I'd offer to get copies for you. I really have no idea what

might cause recurrent CV, but I wonder about hormones - have you had

them checked? Or, maybe can you try doing the baking soda douches more

often (or have you already tried that?).

I hope I'm not being overly negative - obviously it is your decision as

to what you should do, but I do want to suggest that you ask the " why "

question before you go as far as giving yourself a yeast infection.

andrea

xxx

[Guest guest]

Hi , I just wanted to write to you cos it sounds like you and me

are in similar situations ...

I also had cytolytic vaginosis and vestibulitis - diagnosed by Gordon

after 1.5 years of b/s from other doctors. The baking soda

douches got rid of my CV, but his treatments had no effect on my

vestibulitis. He told me that he didn't think my vestibulitis was

caused by muscle tension, based on the fact that when he inserted his

finger and told me to squeeze then release, I was able to release, and

therefore I don't have vaginismus. However, if you read up on the work

by Glazer & co, you find that what causes vestibulitis is

unstable pelvic floor muscles that frequently spasm. This does not have

to be bad enough to cause vaginismus (maybe Tom can elaborate here with

a more technical explanation ...?).

Despite Gordon 's assurances to the contrary, I am now pretty sure

that my vestibulitis is in a large part (if not completely) due to

muscle tension problems. I have to concentrate very hard to relax my

pelvic floor muscles, and as soon as i forget about them they tighten

up again. Recently, due to lifestyle changes, I have had some

(temporary) improvements to my muscle tension status, and these always

coincide with a decrease in my vestibulitis pain. I've not yet had

successful treatment for the muscle tension, but I hope to be starting

biofeedback very soon.

SO, my main point in telling you all this, is to encourage you to

consider the " muscle tension " theory, and to let you know that Dr

is not necessarily correct if he tells you your muscle tension is fine.

The only way to get an accurate assessment of muscle tension is to go

for an sEMG assessment session with a practicioner who is experienced

in using biofeedback to treat VV. I have a lot of respect for Gordon

, but like all doctors he does have his blind spots, so please do

consider biofeedback before taking the more drastic step of surgery!

xxx

> Hi

>

> I've been seeing Dr. also, and will travel to see him for the 5th time

Sept. 14.

> Anyway, I have vestibulitis, but also had cytolitic vaginosis at first too. He

also tried to give me a yeast infection to then treat and help kill off the

lactobaccili overgrowth. He had me use Cleocin inserted vaginally. I never did

get a yeast infection, but the cytolitic vaginosis has gone away now from doing

baking soda douches twice a week.

> Unfortunately though I still have the vestibulitis, and that is why I've still

been having to go to him until he can give me the right treatment that will

finally get rid of it. Right now he's been having me use Estrace topically 2-3

times a day, and though it doesn't hurt to be putting it on, I am finding no

relief in pain. I have had this disease for at least 8 years now if not 9 so

maybe it's just taking time for the Estrace to work. When I see him next week he

is going to decide whether he feels the next step will be surgery. I'm really

hoping not. Anyway, back to the cytolitic vaginosis, I hope it will go away for

you too as it did for me.

> Pain free days to all

>

> Dauphinais

[Guest guest]

,

I agree with you. I do think getting thrush is drastic. I told

my boyfriend about that. He's a pharmacist and was shocked that

someone would recommend getting thrush. He was saying it is hard to

get rid of a fungal infection, can sometimes take up to 6 months of

antifungal treatment whereas bacteria is much easier to kill.

I am glad you wrote that because I also saw Dr. - his

treatments are not helping my vv either. I asked him about

biofeedback and he laughed at it. He said it has never helped any of

his patient. Yet, I read this study where it said it helped 22/28

women. Surely, that can't be a fluke. Tell me if this is weird -

sometimes, it does feel a little better when I urinate and I'm

wondering if that's because the muscle is relaxed when you urinate.

Anyways, I have decided to see another doctor, and I found out she is

in support of Dr. Glazer's work, so maybe she will recommend it.

Seema

> > Hi

> >

> > I've been seeing Dr. also, and will travel to see him for

the 5th time Sept. 14.

> > Anyway, I have vestibulitis, but also had cytolitic vaginosis at

first too. He also tried to give me a yeast infection to then treat

and help kill off the lactobaccili overgrowth. He had me use Cleocin

inserted vaginally. I never did get a yeast infection, but the

cytolitic vaginosis has gone away now from doing baking soda douches

twice a week.

> > Unfortunately though I still have the vestibulitis, and that is

why I've still been having to go to him until he can give me the

right treatment that will finally get rid of it. Right now he's been

having me use Estrace topically 2-3 times a day, and though it

doesn't hurt to be putting it on, I am finding no relief in pain. I

have had this disease for at least 8 years now if not 9 so maybe it's

just taking time for the Estrace to work. When I see him next week he

is going to decide whether he feels the next step will be surgery.

I'm really hoping not. Anyway, back to the cytolitic vaginosis, I

hope it will go away for you too as it did for me.

> > Pain free days to all

> >

> > Dauphinais

[Guest guest]

About the pelvic floor tension....you can have spasmed muscles such as the

levator ani group or obturator internus muscles that can cause severe pelvic

and perineal pain,(especially when sitting) and yet not be constricted or

tight in the vaginal area.

Sherry

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

,

I have been going to Dr. since Dec. 2000. I go every month. My next appt. is Sept 20th. When I first went to him I had a bacterial infection in addition to the vv. I had gone to 5 or 6 other doctors and they did not even know what it was. Finally one gyn, without even examining me knew what it was and sent me to Dr. . He has had me using Dienestrol cream; it is and estrogen cream. I use ½ applicator 2 times a week and use a pea size 2-3 times a day. It is rebuilding the skin that had thinned and I am starting to heal. I also use Crisco shortening (not the oil)every time I go to the bathroom, it really helps. Although I am not healed all the way I have improved since I started going to him. He had mentioned surgery earlier but then did not mention it again until my 7th month of going to him. We told him that since I am getting somewhat better I do not want to go that route at this time. Also, we do not have insurance at this time and I do not want to go to that expense considering there are no guarantees that it will work. I also know what foods aggravate the condition and therefore I try to avoid them, I used to keep a chart of what I ate and drank to figure out what was doing it.

I have a bunch of questions to ask him the next time I go.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you my experience, hopefully there may be something to help you. BTW, I have had vv only since May 2000 so it has not been as long as you. And Dr. did tell me that the longer you had it the longer it will take to get rid it.

Geraldine

I need to get thrush!

Hi allBack from visit 3 to Dr . The cytolytic vaginosis is back witha vengeance and has stopped r! esponding to the topical treatments. Ihave way too many lactobacilli and a lot of cytolysis. Dr wantsme to go on antibiotics so that I can throw the balance the other wayand get thrush and then see if he get slowly treat the thrush tosolve the problem.Thing is I'm allergic to penicillin and he's not sure which otherantibiotics are good at giving thrush. Any ideas from those who arevery prone to it? Also any advice for other things like foods etcthat feed candida?I know it sounds an odd request but I really have to get the numberof lactobacilli down.Also just wanted to mention that I get a white lumpy discharge butdon't have thrush and also have the bladder urgency (key in locksyndrome and a lot of pain on urination) but don't have a urineinfection. Just goes to show that lots of these conditions give thesame problems.Thanks for your help and support as always.

[Guest guest]

,

I am also surprised that Dr. is wanting you to get thrush. Last month

when I went to see him I had been itching a little bit for a few days, I

assumed it was probably a healing itch but he was afraid it was maybe a

yeast infection, although I have never had one. He prescribed 2 pills for me

to take to get rid of it if it was yeast, he said we did not need that

problem too yet to complicate things. Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.

Geraldine

Re: I need to get thrush!

> Hi ,

>

> I haven't really anything to add on how to get thrush, but I do have to

> say that it sounds like a pretty drastic solution to me. I worry that

> it might create more problems that it solves. That said, in my case, my

> cytolytic vaginosis did finally disappear when I got a yeast infection

> (brought on I think by the baking soda douches plus steroid cream use

> plus estrogen patch), but for me at least, yeast infections are

> incredibly unpleasant and I wouldn't wish one on anyone. I think it was

> important that I used only oral diflucan to treat that infection, NO

> canesten pessaries like the previous times. I suspect that the canesten

> pessaries i used to treat my first ever yeast infection may have been

> the original trigger for my cytolytic vaginosis.

>

> I wonder why your cytolytic vaginosis came back after it was so much

> better before, and why it is not now responding to the douches? I

> thought Ora's post (with the info about using pads, etc) was really

> good, and I have a couple of other suggestions. I found it essential to

> avoid eating live lactobacilli (e.g. in live yoghurt) when I had CV -

> if I did, I'd get a flare-up the next day. Also, there are 3 medical

> articles on CV, and I wonder if there might be some info somewhere in

> them on the causes/treatment of recurrent/persistent CV. The articles

> are:

>

> Hutti MH, Hoffman C.(2000) Cytolytic vaginosis: an overlooked cause of

> cyclic vaginal itching and burning.J Am Acad Nurse Pract.12(2):55-7.

>

> Secor RM.(1992) Cytolytic vaginosis: a common cause of cyclic

> vulvovaginitis. Nurse Pract Forum. 3(3):145-8.

>

> Cibley LJ, Cibley LJ. (1991) Cytolytic vaginosis. Am J Obstet Gynecol.

> 165(4 Pt 2):1245-9.

>

> Perhaps you can go to a medical school library and look these papers

> up? Unfortunately I no longer have access to a good medical library,

> otherwise I'd offer to get copies for you. I really have no idea what

> might cause recurrent CV, but I wonder about hormones - have you had

> them checked? Or, maybe can you try doing the baking soda douches more

> often (or have you already tried that?).

>

> I hope I'm not being overly negative - obviously it is your decision as

> to what you should do, but I do want to suggest that you ask the " why "

> question before you go as far as giving yourself a yeast infection.

>

> andrea

> xxx

>

>

>

>

>

> *****END OF MESSAGE*****

> -------------------------------------------------

> To post message: VulvarDisorders

> To Subscribe: VulvarDisorders-subscribe

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>

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