Re: Some thoughts on CPS calls

November 6, 2008

You are right that normal, sane families have some yelling and some

incidents where kids cry or yell, and some families have a different

lifestyle than the neighbors that are still in the healthy and

functional side of the pool. And yes, I have heard about how

sometimes people get reported to CPS that shouldn't be, for various

reasons: over-zealousness, revenge, misunderstanding, whatever, and

that can be very hard on the family reported.

I suppose I feel guilty for looking the other way and not reporting an

extreme case of abuse that I was made aware of through a friend, back

when I was a young person, about 21. My friend C. was dating a guy

who said he lived on a farm with his mom and sister, and C. and I went

for a visit to ride the horses. When we arrived at the home, nobody

was there except the sister, a very little girl, about 4 or 5 years

old. The child was pitifully dirty and lonely, the home was in a

shocking state of filth, with goats and chickens living in the house.

There was animal crap everywhere, piles of dirty dishes and partially

eaten food and broken glass everywhere, flies everywhere, maggots in

the garbage, I could see rat poop on the tables, the whole place

stank, and this little child was left alone there, isolated, in

dangerous conditions, apparently for days at a time.

I feel sick now that I didn't follow up on that situation and help get

that child out of there, but I was afraid of making trouble for my

friend's boyfriend's mother. But if I run into something similar,

now, I'm going to go with my gut and call CVS.

-Annie

>

> I am sticking my neck out here on the subject of CPS calls. First let

> me say that I definitely think all abusive parents should be

> immediately turned in. The caution I want to give is, make sure that

> you are actually witnessing abuse. As a homeschooling parent, I am

> aware of the number of families that get turned in that are completely

> innocent. I am fulling expecting to be turned in for educational

> neglect at some point. My daughter would be in first grade in school.

> We do tons of school during the hot summer months and then my kids

> play outside for hours a day during the fall. Our neighbors are

> extremely hostile and I'm sure they think the child is completely

> unschooled. By contrast she learns very quickly, is reading above a

> 6th grade level, practicing multiplication, and working on Greek and

> Latin roots. Money is also tight so my children's play clothes are

> not the greatest right now. I don't insist that they match when

> playing outside and daughter is definitely the kind of child to

> reserve hair combing for going places!! I actually know of a

> homeschool family that recently was turned in to CPS by a video store

> employee for letting the kids watch scary movies. The parents were

> renting the movies and watching them for after the kids were in bed,

> yet they were investigated.

>

> About the screaming... I agree no parent should ever scream at their

> children. I also will admit that I have been known to scream at my

> kids. Certainly not in the fashion that my nada did which included

> threats to pull our arms and legs off. Both of my children have

> fierce tempers and sometimes it gets pretty loud here, but I am

> certainly not abusive nor justifying abuse in anyway. Sometimes the

> parent simply has to be heard.

>

> My kids are also both terrified of things like getting their nails

> clipped. From a very young age, daughter has screamed " Don't make me

> bleed " at the top of her lungs when we had to clip a nail. Let me

> make it clear, I don't make my kids bleed!!! If the neighbors were

> documenting, that would definitely have sent a caseworker straight to

> my door. They also say things like that when I'm trimming their hair.

>

> Anyway, I agree that there is a lot of abuse in the world and it

> should be stopped. I also just had to jump in and say that turning a

> family in for alleged abuse can be devastating if they are innocent.

> I would hope that my neighbors would get to know my family before they

> turned me in, but I don't expect it.

>

> le

>

November 6, 2008

I know firsthand of both - totally unfounded CPS reporting and

harassment, and the frustration of when there really was abuse and

CPS wouldn't or couldn't do anything. My theory about this is,

really abusive parents know what they're doing is wrong so they're

careful to stay under the radar - don't leave bruises where they

show, keep the house clean and present themselves as respectable

citizens, have friends/relatives in high places etc. Whereas parents

who are not abusive have no reason to hide and are easier to push

around. Like the person who actually commits a crime makes sure

they have an alibi, but an innocent person doesn't, so it's actually

sometimes easier to convict the innocent one.

I had a neighbor who was seriously abusive, whose uncle was a

police officer. Guess who came when we called the police? She also

seemed to hear about CPS investigations before they happened, too.

Finally the child was removed (and placed with her grandmother, just

as bad) but it took years of reporting by many people. The parents

were pillars of a local church (one that believed in strict

discipline of children), the grandfather owned rental property and

was powerful in the community etc. On the other hand, the school

attendance teacher comes out to see why another child isn't in

school (she's sick), finds the house messy (cause Mom has been

dealing with a sick child, not to mention working to put food on the

table) and CPS is called.

True story from a friend of mine: when her kids were smallish, they

decided to go outside and play in the dirt. Got covered with mud

from head to toe. It was summer, and hot out, so she rinsed them

off with the garden hose before bringing them in the house. A

policeman showed up at her door because a neighbor heard the kids

screaming " Don't use the hose on us! " The neighbor apparently

thought she was beating the kids with it.

>

> I am sticking my neck out here on the subject of CPS calls. First

let

> me say that I definitely think all abusive parents should be

> immediately turned in. The caution I want to give is, make sure

that

> you are actually witnessing abuse. As a homeschooling parent, I am

> aware of the number of families that get turned in that are

completely

> innocent. I am fulling expecting to be turned in for educational

> neglect at some point. My daughter would be in first grade in

school.

> We do tons of school during the hot summer months and then my kids

> play outside for hours a day during the fall. Our neighbors are

> extremely hostile and I'm sure they think the child is completely

> unschooled. By contrast she learns very quickly, is reading above

a

> 6th grade level, practicing multiplication, and working on Greek

and

> Latin roots. Money is also tight so my children's play clothes are

> not the greatest right now. I don't insist that they match when

> playing outside and daughter is definitely the kind of child to

> reserve hair combing for going places!! I actually know of a

> homeschool family that recently was turned in to CPS by a video

store

> employee for letting the kids watch scary movies. The parents were

> renting the movies and watching them for after the kids were in

bed,

> yet they were investigated.

>

> About the screaming... I agree no parent should ever scream at

their

> children. I also will admit that I have been known to scream at my

> kids. Certainly not in the fashion that my nada did which included

> threats to pull our arms and legs off. Both of my children have

> fierce tempers and sometimes it gets pretty loud here, but I am

> certainly not abusive nor justifying abuse in anyway. Sometimes

the

> parent simply has to be heard.

>

> My kids are also both terrified of things like getting their nails

> clipped. From a very young age, daughter has screamed " Don't make

me

> bleed " at the top of her lungs when we had to clip a nail. Let me

> make it clear, I don't make my kids bleed!!! If the neighbors were

> documenting, that would definitely have sent a caseworker straight

to

> my door. They also say things like that when I'm trimming their

hair.

>

> Anyway, I agree that there is a lot of abuse in the world and it

> should be stopped. I also just had to jump in and say that

turning a

> family in for alleged abuse can be devastating if they are

innocent.

> I would hope that my neighbors would get to know my family before

they

> turned me in, but I don't expect it.

>

> le

>

November 6, 2008

> >

> > I am sticking my neck out here on the subject of CPS calls.

First

> let

> > me say that I definitely think all abusive parents should be

> > immediately turned in. The caution I want to give is, make sure

> that

> > you are actually witnessing abuse. As a homeschooling parent, I

am

> > aware of the number of families that get turned in that are

> completely

> > innocent. I am fulling expecting to be turned in for educational

> > neglect at some point. My daughter would be in first grade in

> school.

> > We do tons of school during the hot summer months and then my

kids

> > play outside for hours a day during the fall. Our neighbors are

> > extremely hostile and I'm sure they think the child is completely

> > unschooled. By contrast she learns very quickly, is reading

above

> a

> > 6th grade level, practicing multiplication, and working on Greek

> and

> > Latin roots. Money is also tight so my children's play clothes

are

> > not the greatest right now. I don't insist that they match when

> > playing outside and daughter is definitely the kind of child to

> > reserve hair combing for going places!! I actually know of a

> > homeschool family that recently was turned in to CPS by a video

> store

> > employee for letting the kids watch scary movies. The parents

were

> > renting the movies and watching them for after the kids were in

> bed,

> > yet they were investigated.

> >

> > About the screaming... I agree no parent should ever scream at

> their

> > children. I also will admit that I have been known to scream at

my

> > kids. Certainly not in the fashion that my nada did which

included

> > threats to pull our arms and legs off. Both of my children have

> > fierce tempers and sometimes it gets pretty loud here, but I am

> > certainly not abusive nor justifying abuse in anyway. Sometimes

> the

> > parent simply has to be heard.

> >

> > My kids are also both terrified of things like getting their nails

> > clipped. From a very young age, daughter has screamed " Don't

make

> me

> > bleed " at the top of her lungs when we had to clip a nail. Let me

> > make it clear, I don't make my kids bleed!!! If the neighbors

were

> > documenting, that would definitely have sent a caseworker

straight

> to

> > my door. They also say things like that when I'm trimming their

> hair.

> >

> > Anyway, I agree that there is a lot of abuse in the world and it

> > should be stopped. I also just had to jump in and say that

> turning a

> > family in for alleged abuse can be devastating if they are

> innocent.

> > I would hope that my neighbors would get to know my family before

> they

> > turned me in, but I don't expect it.

> >

> > le

> >

>

November 10, 2008

I have to agree with all of the posts in this thread.

I called CPS after a little girl I knew confided in me about physical

abuse going on in her home. I had already had a bad feeling about the

stepfather and had witnessed his verbal abuse of the mother. In

addition, there had been a couple of very suspicious incidents

regarding family pets. So I wasn't too suprised. CPS wasn't able to

do anything about it, because apparently the mother instructed the

little girl who had talked to me to " fix what she had done " and stood

behind the CPS worker glaring at the little girl throughout the

interview. The mother found out that I was the one who had called and

told me that the little girl was a liar and had said the same thing

to her teacher but the teacher had the " common sense " to talk to the

mother about it rather than call CPS. I was outraged - first at the

mother accusing the little girl of being a liar, and secondly that

the teacher, a " mandated reporter " had done nothing.

On the other hand, my mother is not diagnosed with BPD, but after she

came to therapy sessions with me for three months (in her mind to try

to help the therapist see that I was the source of all the problems

in our relationship), my therapist is convinced she has both BPD and

NPD - high funcioning, though. Anyway, my mother hates my husband and

accuses us of all kinds of crazy things and I do worry that someday

she will call CPS on us. I think that CPS would come and see that

there is nothing going on, and move along, but the thought stresses

me out. My mother's accusations are completely unfounded, mind you.

My husband is one of the best dads I've ever seen, and while I may

not be a meticulous housekeeper, our home is not unsanitary or

dangerous, my kids are growing up in a happy and healthy household.

They are very well adjusted. We limit my parents' access to our

children to times when we are around (still once a week, but

supervised), and it is only since we instituted this arrangement

after my mother's outrageous behavior toward me in front of my kids

that these accusations have come up.

Anyway, I see both sides of the issue - the importance of intervening

when true child abuse is going on, and abuse of good parents through

the manipulating of the CPS system. Frustrating!!!