MSG always present in any gelatin-encapsulated vitamins/supplements

[Guest guest]

Hi, I came across this sentence " MSG is always present in any gelatin-

encapsulated vitamin or supplement " in a doc on MSG and have been

researching it online, only to find the exact same sentence on a number

of sites - with no explanation of what " gelatin-encapsulated " might

mean. Is this anything that is soft-gel, such as fish oil capsules?? Is

anyone familiar with this who can explain it a little more?

Thank you,

Carolee

[Guest guest]

Wow, thanks for bringing it up - I found your answer here:

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

The gelatin has free glutamic acid in it - probably from the

processing. If you read " Broth is Beautiful " on the WAP site, it says

that the kind of gelatin you can usually buy is really horrible

overprocessed stuff with few of the benefits of true gelatin left in it.

I hope this helps you - it sure helped me!

--- In , " ccbmamma " <caroleebol@...>

wrote:

>

> Hi, I came across this sentence " MSG is always present in any gelatin-

> encapsulated vitamin or supplement " in a doc on MSG and have been

> researching it online, only to find the exact same sentence on a

number

> of sites - with no explanation of what " gelatin-encapsulated " might

> mean. Is this anything that is soft-gel, such as fish oil capsules??

Is

> anyone familiar with this who can explain it a little more?

>

> Thank you,

> Carolee

>

[Guest guest]

--- <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Wow, thanks for bringing it up - I found your answer here:

> http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

According to Truth in Labeling: " The MSG-reaction is a reaction to

free glutamic acid that occurs in food as a consequence of

manufacture. MSG-sensitive people do not react to protein (which

contains bound glutamic acid) or any of the minute amounts of free

glutamic acid that might be found in unadulterated, unfermented, food. "

What I don't understand is that most meats contain lots of " bound

glutamic acid " , but I thought that proper digestion breaks the

proteins into constituent amino acids and thus the bound glutamic acid

would be broken into free glutamic acid in the stomach. If this is

true, then why is eating free glutamic acid any different than eating

bound glutamic acid, since either way you end up with free glutamic

acid in the stomach? Am I missing something here?

[Guest guest]

The Truth in Labeling site said those on the list had enough free

glutamic acid to cause problems in those sensitive to it. I think

that's the key. MSG is harmful because of the amount of free

glutamic acid, it floods the body at rates higher than the body can

handle, while meats and other foods where it is more natural are

broken down more slowly so it seeps out and is dealt with before it

reaches amounts that cause problems.

> > Wow, thanks for bringing it up - I found your answer here:

> > http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

>

> According to Truth in Labeling: " The MSG-reaction is a reaction to

> free glutamic acid that occurs in food as a consequence of

> manufacture. MSG-sensitive people do not react to protein (which

> contains bound glutamic acid) or any of the minute amounts of free

> glutamic acid that might be found in unadulterated, unfermented,

food. "

>

> What I don't understand is that most meats contain lots of " bound

> glutamic acid " , but I thought that proper digestion breaks the

> proteins into constituent amino acids and thus the bound glutamic

acid

> would be broken into free glutamic acid in the stomach. If this is

> true, then why is eating free glutamic acid any different than

eating

> bound glutamic acid, since either way you end up with free glutamic

> acid in the stomach? Am I missing something here?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your comments. I'm going to write an email to a few vitamin

companies and also to Dr. Mercola who sells gelatin-encapsulated

supplements (Dr. Ron too). I'll write back with any responses. It

seems hard to believe that all " soft " supplements (as I'm assuming the

softness/liquid is gelatin/msg) contain msg, but maybe so!

Carolee

[Guest guest]

--- <haecklers@...> wrote:

> The Truth in Labeling site said those on the list had enough free

> glutamic acid to cause problems in those sensitive to it. I think

> that's the key. MSG is harmful because of the amount of free

> glutamic acid, it floods the body at rates higher than the body can

> handle, while meats and other foods where it is more natural are

> broken down more slowly so it seeps out and is dealt with before it

> reaches amounts that cause problems.

I'm not sure how much free glutamic acid might be in homemade bone

broths, but if you eat 1/4 lb of beef burger plus 2 slices of bacon

and 2 sliced of cheddar cheese, you get about 7 g of glutamic acid.

If it takes 7 hours to digest, that's an average of 1 g per hour

ingested. Surely this would be enough to bother someone who is sensitive?

[Guest guest]

" MSG " is a form of free glutamate, not the other way around. Some people

are sensitive to all glutamates - they can't have whole, unprocessed soy,

gluten, casein, corn, peas, etc. Some are only sensitive to the MSG form of

free glutamate (I think this has to do with the sodium causing it to be

absorbed prematurely). I used to be really glutamate sensitive, but

thankfully, that was one of the easier things to fix.

It is a very basic issue: Glutamate and Aspartate (the amino in aspartame)

are both acidic. They are the only two aminos that are acidic. These

aminos are neutralized during fermentation (they become the amines Glutamine

and Asparagine), so fermented glutamate foods will cause less of an issue -

but that still doesn't correct the existing acidity. You need the two base

aminos for that: Lysine and Arginine. These " pair " with glutamate and

aspartate in the cells to neutralize them.

Lysine is an essential amino acid. Arginine is one of the " conditionally

essential " amino acids - but unlike a lot of the conditionally essential

aminos, it is acknowledged as an essential amino acid for children. It is

found in the thymus/sweetbread, spleen, lung and pancreas and I suspect its

deficiency has something to do with pancreatic insufficiency.

" On a whole-body basis, synthesis of arginine occurs principally via

the intestinal–renal

axis

<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Intestinal%E2%80%93renal_axis & action=\

edit>,

wherein epithelial cells <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epithelial_cell> of

the small intestine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_intestine>, which

produce citrulline <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citrulline> primarily from

glutamine <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine> and

glutamate<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate>,

collaborate with the proximal tubule

cells<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Proximal_tubule_cell & action=edit\

>of

the

kidney <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidney>, which extract citrulline from

the circulation and convert it to arginine, which is returned to the

circulation. Consequently, impairment of small bowel or renal function can

reduce endogenous arginine synthesis, thereby increasing the dietary

requirement. " (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arginine)

Arginine and Lysine is how I fixed my glutamate sensitivity. I took a short

course of them in pills (500mg each for about a month, if that). I have

been having issues getting affordable sweetbreads and spleen from quality

animals, so I haven't been keeping up with my arginine intake - after 9

months, I can start to feel the acidity setting in again. I plan on

skipping the pills this time and using food: I have some sweetbreads and

spleen coming from a local farmer, but I have to wait until October when he

slaughters his cattle. In the meantime, crispy pumpkin seeds and nuts will

have to do.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Lana,

Thanks for the informative post.

How do you prepare the spleen/sweetbreads? Where did you find

recipes? How do they taste?

This is totally something I've been looking for - sometimes I know I've

gotten too much MSG and start feeling awful and needed to know what to

do to detox it. For some reason bee pollen and black strap molasses

seem to help, but really it's just a crazy guess why, I was trying to

get more minerals, but looks like I needed the aminos.

Have you heard of " Snack Jack " pumpkins? You can find the seeds

sometimes and grow them yourself - they have huskless seeds so you can

roast them and eat them without getting stabbed in your gums by the

hard fibers! I read that the Native Americans used to grow pumpkins

more for the seeds than the flesh of the squash. I guess we've

probably lost most of the varieties they used to grow.

[Guest guest]

>

> How do you prepare the spleen/sweetbreads? Where did you find

> recipes? How do they taste?

Recipe is in NT - they're pretty bland for organ meats.

> This is totally something I've been looking for - sometimes I know I've

> gotten too much MSG and start feeling awful and needed to know what to

> do to detox it. For some reason bee pollen and black strap molasses

> seem to help, but really it's just a crazy guess why, I was trying to

> get more minerals, but looks like I needed the aminos.

Hmmm... bee pollen you say? I can't find an amino acid analysis, but I am

finding several indications that it does contain arginine, how it has a

better amino acid profile than many foods (40% protein according to one

source) and how it is a food for *young* bees... I'd say there's a chance

you've discovered another source of arginine inadvertantly. I'm seeing

healing, rejuvination, anti-aging and a variety of other words being used in

conjunction with bee pollen, and arginine stimulates growth hormone... I'm

gonna see if I can find an actual amino acid profile.

Have you heard of " Snack Jack " pumpkins? You can find the seeds

> sometimes and grow them yourself - they have huskless seeds so you can

> roast them and eat them without getting stabbed in your gums by the

> hard fibers!

Now that sounds useful: I'll look into them, thanks!

I read that the Native Americans used to grow pumpkins

> more for the seeds than the flesh of the squash. I guess we've

> probably lost most of the varieties they used to grow.

>

I didn't know the NA grew the pumpkins more for the seeds, interesting!

There are a variety of heirloom squash available, but I don't think any of

it is old enough to have come from the NA.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Sorry, didn't notice you also inquired about the spleen. There is a spleen

crostini recipe I'm pretty fond of but I can't find it ATM. It has capers

and white wine and stuff in it - very tasty.

I've heard spleen used to be ground up with beef to give it more of a red

color, but since I don't have a meat grinder I haven't tried this yet.

-Lana

On 9/6/07, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote:

>

> How do you prepare the spleen/sweetbreads? Where did you find

> > recipes? How do they taste?

>

>

> Recipe is in NT (for sweetbreads) - they're pretty bland for organ meats.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Found it!

(http://www.alternativescentral.com/beepollen.htm)

It has a decent amount of arginine (292.52 mg/oz), but it isn't as good as

the sweetbreads or pumpkin seeds when you consider it in terms of a ratio

between glu/asp and arg/lys (it is .58 whereas pumpkinseeds are .86).

I did notice that both the bee pollen and the blackstrap molasses are high

in Manganese. Mn really helped me with all of my food sensitvities in

general. Bee Pollen has 1.395 mg/oz (that's almost the DV right there!!)

whereas blackstrap molasses has .5 mg/tbsp. Mn is needed for the part of

the urea cycle that breaks arginine into ornithine and urea to complete the

urea cycle. It is also needed for the enzyme Glutamine synthetase, which is

what neutralizes the acidic glutamate with an ammonia molecule. Mn also

plays a major part in Biotin, Thiamin, C and choline absorption.

I find I do best getting between 2 and 4 mg Mn a day, which is between 110%

and 240% the DV for a woman. I would not recommend using the supplemental

form of this vitamin as there are issues with absorbtion/toxicity in doses

that would be fine if acquired through diet. Foods we see in NAPD that are

high in Mn include mollusks, rye and oats. Brown rice and lentils are also

decent sources (mmm dosa!) as are pumpkin seeds (1/8 cup gives 25% DV).

More into on Manganese here:

http://www.whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient & dbid=77 and here:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/manganese/

-Lana

Hmmm... bee pollen you say? I can't find an amino acid analysis, but I am

> finding several indications that it does contain arginine, how it has a

> better amino acid profile than many foods (40% protein according to one

> source) and how it is a food for *young* bees... I'd say there's a chance

> you've discovered another source of arginine inadvertantly. I'm seeing

> healing, rejuvination, anti-aging and a variety of other words being used in

> conjunction with bee pollen, and arginine stimulates growth hormone... I'm

> gonna see if I can find an actual amino acid profile.

>