Re: Iron as an Antioxidant

[Guest guest]

Iron is a oxidant, which means it can set up inflammatory conditions (ateries,

joints, etc.). If you notice on many vitamin-mineral supplements iron is low to

none now. Before they thought it was good for us and upped the level until they

noticed an increase in heart attacks.

Vitamin C will make the body absorb iron more readily.

Tea however does the opposite, which is, the tannic acid binds with the iron and

carries it out of your system. Which might be part of the reason why they have

found tea drinkers having a lower risk of heart attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/389059.stm

I also have read studies where they thought the reason why women were less

prone to heart attacks until after menopause was due to the loss of blood, which

would create iron loss, during mentrual cycles.

Here is a site that talks about heart attacks and iron and how chelation therapy

may reduce the inflammation set up by iron and reduce ateriosclerosis. Which is

why many heart attacks occur, it's not the fat but the inflammation that sets up

aterial blockage.

http://atvb.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/12/2638

Lorie

[Guest guest]

Lorie,

> Iron is a oxidant, which means it can set up inflammatory conditions

> (ateries, joints, etc.).

Ferrous iron (+2) is a reducing agent and ferric iron (+3) is an

oxidizing agent. Both forms can mediate free radical damage if they

are free where they don't belong, and heme is an important antioxidant

where it does belong.

> I also have read studies where they thought the reason why women were less

> prone to heart attacks until after menopause was due to the loss of blood,

> which would create iron loss, during mentrual cycles.

Yes -- iron levels measured by serum ferriting. Did you read my post?

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

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[Guest guest]

>

> Lorie,

>

> > Iron is a oxidant, which means it can set up inflammatory conditions

> > (ateries, joints, etc.).

>

> Ferrous iron (+2) is a reducing agent and ferric iron (+3) is an

> oxidizing agent. Both forms can mediate free radical damage if they

> are free where they don't belong, and heme is an important antioxidant

> where it does belong.

>

> > I also have read studies where they thought the reason why women

were less

> > prone to heart attacks until after menopause was due to the loss

of blood,

> > which would create iron loss, during mentrual cycles.

>

> Yes -- iron levels measured by serum ferriting. Did you read my post?

>

Does this all mean that the guy who wrote the following essay on iron

is a little off in his science?

http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com/ironbk.html

[Guest guest]

,

Interesting article. I own horses and was speaking with a vet who is also an

equine nutritionist. I'm going to write what she says in her book about iron

overload, as she also makes references to humans and other species. Goes along

similar lines of what your article but I think you will find it interesting:

Iron deficiency is virtually non existant except in horses that have sustained a

very large loss of blood. (In a horse that's at least a gallon). The horse has

abundant iron stored in his bone marrow and also carries a very large reserve of

red blood cells in his spleen.

Iron is definately toxic in large amounts. Foals given a paste supplement to

promote growth of intestinal organisms have died from the iron in the product.

Long term feeding of iron-containing supplements can cause chronic toxicity with

toxic iron levels in the kidneys and liver. The main, tail and coat may take on

a rusty color. High iron levels interfere with the absorption of important

trace minerals and can produce a wide variety of problems, depending on which

are involved, (i.e. copper, manganese and zinc). Excessive iron also

predisposes horses to infections by interfering with immune function. Chronic

fatigue, arthritis, low level abdominal pain, impaired fertility, damage to the

heart muscle and liver are all common symptoms of iron overload in other species

and can just as easily occur in horses. Injectable iron is the most dangerous

but many " blood tonics " also contain dangerous levels of iron. Worst of all,

there is no treatment for iron overload except to remove blood at regular

intervals. Certainly this in not what you are after when you feed those high

iron supplements.

Interactions: High iron interferes with absorption of copper and zinc.

Excessive calcium supplementation may compete with iron for absorption. The

presence of high iron levels in some supplements can inactivate vitamin C and

vitamin E.

Indications: None, except anemia following a massive blood loss. Even allowing

for increased iron needs in high performance horses, the diet will easily meet

those needs.

_______________________________________________________________

I guess in the old days, blood letting might have helped some people. Though I

would think only the rich would have had diets rich enough in meats to need it.

Lorie

[Guest guest]

,

> Does this all mean that the guy who wrote the following essay on iron

> is a little off in his science?

> http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com/ironbk.html

I didn't read the whole thing, but most of what he says about the

potential dangers of iron are true, though his distinction between

plant and animal iron has no citations associated with it and

conflicts with what I've seen, which is that plant iron is better than

animal iron at raising serum ferritin. I'm sure there are studies out

there showing vegetarians to have lower iron stores, probably using

vegetarians who were eating junk food rather than legumes and green

vegetables.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Lorie,

> I guess in the old days, blood letting might have helped some people.

> Though I would think only the rich would have had diets rich enough in meats

> to need it.

What about cattle-herding tribes like the Masai, or the many

hunter-gatheres eating predominantly meat-based diets, in many cases

predominantly red meat, like the North American Indians that Price

studied, who lived off animals like caribou and moose?

I don't doubt that blood letting or injuries may have played a

protective role in iron overdose, but I made an argument in the

initial post in this thread, supported by evidence, that neither total

iron load nor heme iron are the primary culprits in iron overload.

The key piece of evidence was the study where using erythropoietin to

redistribute iron into red blood cells and away from serum ferritin

was associated with a dramatic reduction in oxidative stress despite

not reducing the total body content of iron at all.

You've responded with material showing that high serum ferritin or

supplements of inorganic iron which are basically like eating rust,

are harmful, neither of which addresses the point I made.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

> Indications: None, except anemia following a massive blood loss.

> Even allowing for increased iron needs in high performance horses,

> the diet will easily meet those needs.

About 5 years ago, I had some scary looking output, and sure enough, a

fecal occult blood test came up positive. The cause was determined to

be diverticulosis, which can apparently cause intermittent bleeding. I

tested low in iron, and I was definitely anemic. Thing is, back then I

was overweight, entirely sedentary, and there was almost no red meat

in my diet.

> I guess in the old days, blood letting might have helped some

> people. Though I would think only the rich would have had diets

> rich enough in meats to need it.

Fast-forward five years, and I'm now in the weight room with a trainer

three hours a week plus cardio workouts, and my diet is rich in meat.

I've seen Colpo comment that giving blood is an easy way to

reduce iron overload, but despite never having contracted so much as a

single STD, I can not give blood unless I lie on the questionnaire

about my past sex life. So, it gives me cause for concern that my

WAP/NT diet might cause iron overload with no easy way to reduce the

iron stores.

[Guest guest]

,

> About 5 years ago, I had some scary looking output, and sure enough, a

> fecal occult blood test came up positive. The cause was determined to

> be diverticulosis, which can apparently cause intermittent bleeding. I

> tested low in iron, and I was definitely anemic. Thing is, back then I

> was overweight, entirely sedentary, and there was almost no red meat

> in my diet.

Good thing you weren't active. I don't recall the stats off the top

of my head, but in Colpo's book, he cites studies showing that

physical activity causes a pretty dramatic reduction in serum

ferritin, which is an obvious indicator that it dramatically raises

your requirement for iron. This shouldn't be much of a surprise,

since the entire cellular energy system is all iron-based, as is your

oxygen-carrying capacity.

> Fast-forward five years, and I'm now in the weight room with a trainer

> three hours a week plus cardio workouts, and my diet is rich in meat.

> I've seen Colpo comment that giving blood is an easy way to

> reduce iron overload, but despite never having contracted so much as a

> single STD, I can not give blood unless I lie on the questionnaire

> about my past sex life. So, it gives me cause for concern that my

> WAP/NT diet might cause iron overload with no easy way to reduce the

> iron stores.

Have you tested your serum ferritin?

I haven't, though I should, because I'm concerned too. I'm actually

mostly concerned about my cast iron pan and less concerned about the

red meat.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Have you tested your serum ferritin?

I've only had blood tested for iron once since that bleeding episode,

and I don't recall exactly which iron tests they did. A couple years

ago, I thought I was anemic again because my energy crashed and I was

getting winded from light activity. Turns out, I wasn't eating enough

protein to sustain my workouts, and my system just sorta shut down.

Felt just like anemia, though.

> I haven't, though I should, because I'm concerned too.

There are labs that sell blood tests directly to the customer, without

having to visit a doctor. I had some tests done by InterFit Health

when they came around a few summers ago, but they haven't been back

since then. I should probably just go in for a physical and ask the

doctor for some specific blood tests.

> I'm actually mostly concerned about my cast iron pan and less

> concerned about the red meat.

The danger there probably depends on how well the pan is seasoned and

what you cook in it. I recall reading a long time ago that acidic

foods pick up iron from cast iron cookware.

[Guest guest]

Iron-chelating and free-radical scavenging activities of microwave-processed

green tea in iron overload.

a.. Srichairatanakool S,

b.. Ounjaijean S,

c.. Thephinlap C,

d.. Khansuwan U,

e.. Phisalpong C,

f.. Fucharoen S.

Department of Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, Chiang Mai University,

Thailand. mdbci@...

Secondary iron overload is found in beta-thalassemia (thal) patients because of

increased dietary iron absorption and multiple blood transfusions. Excessive

iron catalyzes free-radical generation, leading to oxidative damage and vital

organ dysfunction. Non-transferrin-bound iron (NTBI) detected in thalassemic

plasma is highly toxic and chelatable. Though used to treat iron overload,

desferrioxamine (DFO) and deferiprone (L1) also have adverse effects. Green tea

(GT) shows many pharmacological effects, particularly antioxidative and

iron-chelating capacities. This study was performed to investigate the ability

of GT extracts to reduce plasma NTBI concentration and oxidative stress in

vitro. The Fe(3+) was found to bind to GT crude extract and form a complex.

Green tea crude extract time- and dose-dependently decreased plasma NTBI

concentration and counteracted the increase of oxidative stress in both

Fe(2+)-EDTA-treated human plasma and erythrocytes. Green tea is a bifunctional

natural product that could be relevant for management of iron overload and

oxidative stress.

PMID: 16798656 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Got this from this site:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=1\

6798656 & dopt=Abstract

Time to bring back bloodletting?

Donating blood may help reduce iron-related artery disease, study finds

Updated: 10:52 a.m. CT Feb 14, 2007

CHICAGO - Blood donations may help keep the body's circulatory system healthy by

reducing stores of iron, but the effect may not work for older people, a U.S.

study suggested Tuesday.

Researchers at the White River Junction, Vermont, Veterans Affairs Medical

Center and Dartmouth Medical School said they looked at 1,277 men and women ages

43 to 87 who had peripheral arterial disease, a common condition in which

narrowed arteries reduce blood flow to the limbs. The study lasted for six

years.

Blood was drawn to promote iron reduction at six-month intervals from some of

the patients but not from others. As a whole there was no significant difference

between the two groups in terms of deaths, heart attacks or other problems.

But when the researchers analyzed the results just for younger patients aged 43

to 61 they found fewer deaths from all causes in the iron-reduction group, and

also fewer nonfatal heart attacks and strokes.

" While our study did not show that reducing iron led to across-the-board

decreases in overall mortality, or combined death plus nonfatal (heart attack)

and stroke, it did support the theory that vascular health might be preserved

into later life by maintaining low levels of iron over time, " said lead author

Dr. Leo Zacharski.

He said bloodletting is " safe and inexpensive, and correlates to routine blood

donation (and) appears to contribute to improved vascular health. " But, he

added, until more research is done people should not try to donate blood just to

lower their iron levels, and added that reductions in iron can also be achieved

through dietary restrictions or drug treatment.

" We suspect that the toxic effect of excess (iron) may become permanent at an

older age, such that the benefits of iron reduction are realized only if it is

started early and continued over time, " Zacharski added.

Excess iron in the blood is thought to promote free-radical damage to arteries,

particularly in the early stages of heart disease, said the study published in

this week's Journal of the American Medical Association.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17150316/

I know you said you can,t truthfully give blood, but maybe your doctor could

draw the blood and just throw it away into a hazardous waste recepticle. From

this they had saw an inprovement twice yearly. Also maybe after a couple of

times you could just start drinking green tea, regular or decaffinated with all

your high iron (beef, etc.) meals. And you can get a stainless steel pan, that

would help too.

Good luck,

Lorie

[Guest guest]

,

> I've only had blood tested for iron once since that bleeding episode,

> and I don't recall exactly which iron tests they did. A couple years

> ago, I thought I was anemic again because my energy crashed and I was

> getting winded from light activity. Turns out, I wasn't eating enough

> protein to sustain my workouts, and my system just sorta shut down.

> Felt just like anemia, though.

Since most animal proteins are relatively high to very rich in

bioavailable iron, and exercise raises your requirement for iron, I

wouldn't necessarily rule it out.

> > I'm actually mostly concerned about my cast iron pan and less

> > concerned about the red meat.

>

> The danger there probably depends on how well the pan is seasoned and

> what you cook in it. I recall reading a long time ago that acidic

> foods pick up iron from cast iron cookware.

I don't think much of what I cook is very acidic, but it seems

visually apparent to me that my food interacts with the pan. I'm sure

the seasoning protects the food from the iron, but the iron probably

mixes with the seasoning some I'd imagine, and the food isn't

protected from the seasoning. I'm not very paranoid about it, but I'm

concerned enough to start looking for a good type of enameled pan.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com