Re: splitting black by age (was difficult children of the board)

[Guest guest]

Kyla,

 

Your experience sounds very similar to mine. We told my father that he didn't

know fully what was going on because he was at work as well. He does agree that

Nada is a psycho (he divorced her and is remarried). I do wonder though would he

have acknowledged our suffering if her were still married to her? He didn't take

any action to interecede so I don't know. Maybe your father said that because he

is dependent on her in some way and doesn't want to admit he is partially to

blame.

 

About the splitting....same exact experience here. She split around the age of

11. I think her hatred of my sisters and I had a sexual element to it as well.

She absolutely HATES young girls between the ages of 11-17. I think she viewed

us as potential competition for affection from any man. We were a visual threat

to her.

Subject: splitting black by age (was difficult children of

the board)

To: WTOAdultChildren1

Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008, 9:26 AM

Blink and all, I think it's not surprising at all that nada's might

start to split children black or blame them for the trouble at around

8-11 years of age. Before I ever reached that age, my nada used to go

on and on about how junior high school children were bad, offensive,

etc. (She was a teacher)

Here's the reason: as young children, we are so dependent upon our

parents for everything, for our survival that it's safer to think that

they are good (and we are bad) if they're abusing us. It's just too

mind-blowing for abused children to think they're dependent upon

abusive adults. At about age 8 we begin to understand right and

wrong. At about age 11-12 children reach a developmental age when

they will no longer believe everything is their fault and where they

start questioning adults. Totally normal. But for nada's, well

questioning them and possibly holding them accountable for their bad

behavior is the kiss of death--so they can turn on their children at

this point.

I know a lot of things were blamed on me as a young adult and I

actually bought that for a long time. I believed that my rage and

rebellion were really due to the fact that I was a " teenager. "

Interestingly, I work with teenagers now and I've attended several

trainings on how NOT to deal with teenagers. The number one way that

you can get a teen to act out is to " discipline " them based on your

whims and feelings of the moment and not based on a clear set of rules

that are meant to protect them. . . isn't that so BP?

Trish

> > > >

> > > > alright, tonight mom called and left a message that she is

> going

> > to

> > > > see a buddhist therapist. considering that dialectic behavior

> > > therapy

> > > > is focused on mindfulness and other aspects that directly

> > > translate to

> > > > buddhist philosophy, i was like, alright! progress!

> > > >

> > > > anyway, i gave her a call and it was okay for a little while,

> > but

> > > then

> > > > she was like, " do you REALLY think i beat you? do you REALLY

> > think

> > > > you knew what was going on when you were little? "

> > > >

> > > > i'm like... " why, yes i do. "

> > > >

> > > > anyway, basically mom has made amends with everyone in her life

> > > > (except for me) and that clearly i am going to therapy, so i am

> > the

> > > > one with the problem. talking to my sister about mom is

> > apparently

> > > > inappropriate. also, the reason i might have THOUGHT that i was

> > > > beaten was because i was a " difficult child " who wouldn't " let "

> > > mom do

> > > > the things she wanted to. apparently the things she wanted to

> > do

> > > were

> > > > hanging out with guys. so watching this woman's children while

> > she

> > > > goes and hangs out with guys is not supposed to make me angry?

> > > > saying, NO, I NEED TO DO HOMEWORK or NO, I WANT TO STAY HOME a)

> > > makes

> > > > me a difficult child, kept her from doing what she wanted to

> > do,

> > > > and c) justifies her actions?

> > > >

> > > > wtf? she's blaming me for all the problems! HA! this

> actually

> > > makes

> > > > me laugh! i was a kid, and i had all this control! i wish i

> > had

> > > used

> > > > this power for awesome while i still had it.

> > > >

> > > > then she also said that if i wanted to discuss " family " issues,

> i

> > > > needed to do it with a therapist. apparently i can't talk to

> HER

> > > > about family issues.

> > > >

> > > > that just does not make a lick of sense.

> > > >

> > > > she wasn't listening to me, so i calmly said, " you are not

> > > listening

> > > > to me. (wait) you are obviously not listening to me. (wait)

> > > okay,

> > > > you are not listening to me, so i am hanging up. have a good

> > > evening. "

> > > >

> > > > about 5 mins later, she called and left a surprisingly calm

> > message

> > > > about how she didn't think individual therapy was necessary for

> > her

> > > > and that family therapy was what would help us. yeah, that's

> > JUST

> > > > what we need to do! either get in a room and have mom cry

> > because

> > > > everyone is out to attack her and she can tell everyone how

> evil

> > > her

> > > > daughter(s) are OR get a therapist to give her a clean bill of

> > > mental

> > > > health so she can just go back to her old ways.

> > > >

> > > > WHATEVER! if having standards is what she considers being

> > > difficult,

> > > > then i'm just going to have to be difficult! if having

> > integrity

> > > is

> > > > what she considers being difficult, then i LIKE being

> > difficult. i

> > > > take PRIDE in being difficult. i will not put up with this any

> > > > longer. this is a joke.

> > > >

> > > > she can no longer take credit for my success and blame me for

> her

> > > > failures. it does not work that way ANY MORE.

> > > >

> > > > bink

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was always

loyal to her.

I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

stood up for him against mom far more than me.

His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion about

mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

classic narcissist.

-Kyla

> > > > >

> > > > > alright, tonight mom called and left a message that she is

> > going

> > > to

> > > > > see a buddhist therapist. considering that dialectic

behavior

> > > > therapy

> > > > > is focused on mindfulness and other aspects that directly

> > > > translate to

> > > > > buddhist philosophy, i was like, alright! progress!

> > > > >

> > > > > anyway, i gave her a call and it was okay for a little

while,

> > > but

> > > > then

> > > > > she was like, " do you REALLY think i beat you? do you

REALLY

> > > think

> > > > > you knew what was going on when you were little? "

> > > > >

> > > > > i'm like... " why, yes i do. "

> > > > >

> > > > > anyway, basically mom has made amends with everyone in her

life

> > > > > (except for me) and that clearly i am going to therapy, so

i am

> > > the

> > > > > one with the problem. talking to my sister about mom is

> > > apparently

> > > > > inappropriate. also, the reason i might have THOUGHT that

i was

> > > > > beaten was because i was a " difficult child " who

wouldn't " let "

> > > > mom do

> > > > > the things she wanted to. apparently the things she wanted

to

> > > do

> > > > were

> > > > > hanging out with guys. so watching this woman's children

while

> > > she

> > > > > goes and hangs out with guys is not supposed to make me

angry?

> > > > > saying, NO, I NEED TO DO HOMEWORK or NO, I WANT TO STAY

HOME a)

> > > > makes

> > > > > me a difficult child, kept her from doing what she

wanted to

> > > do,

> > > > > and c) justifies her actions?

> > > > >

> > > > > wtf? she's blaming me for all the problems! HA! this

> > actually

> > > > makes

> > > > > me laugh! i was a kid, and i had all this control! i wish

i

> > > had

> > > > used

> > > > > this power for awesome while i still had it.

> > > > >

> > > > > then she also said that if i wanted to discuss " family "

issues,

> > i

> > > > > needed to do it with a therapist. apparently i can't talk

to

> > HER

> > > > > about family issues.

> > > > >

> > > > > that just does not make a lick of sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > she wasn't listening to me, so i calmly said, " you are not

> > > > listening

> > > > > to me. (wait) you are obviously not listening to me.

(wait)

> > > > okay,

> > > > > you are not listening to me, so i am hanging up. have a

good

> > > > evening. "

> > > > >

> > > > > about 5 mins later, she called and left a surprisingly

calm

> > > message

> > > > > about how she didn't think individual therapy was

necessary for

> > > her

> > > > > and that family therapy was what would help us. yeah,

that's

> > > JUST

> > > > > what we need to do! either get in a room and have mom cry

> > > because

> > > > > everyone is out to attack her and she can tell everyone

how

> > evil

> > > > her

> > > > > daughter(s) are OR get a therapist to give her a clean

bill of

> > > > mental

> > > > > health so she can just go back to her old ways.

> > > > >

> > > > > WHATEVER! if having standards is what she considers being

> > > > difficult,

> > > > > then i'm just going to have to be difficult! if having

> > > integrity

> > > > is

> > > > > what she considers being difficult, then i LIKE being

> > > difficult. i

> > > > > take PRIDE in being difficult. i will not put up with this

any

> > > > > longer. this is a joke.

> > > > >

> > > > > she can no longer take credit for my success and blame me

for

> > her

> > > > > failures. it does not work that way ANY MORE.

> > > > >

> > > > > bink

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's sad -- and you're absolutely right: we were abandoned by our

fathers, who hid behind " keeping food on the table for my family " --

At least I had my brother to help absorb the damage -- but you were

all alone. Reading that made me sad. Although there were times

when my brother and I were in such pain individually, that we lost

contact for awhile while we BOTH acted out and hit rock bottom in

the world. Thank the good Lord we found our way back to relative

sanity.

Your compliment was very kind -- thank you. I get just as much from

you and our fellow KOs, too.

-Kyla

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > alright, tonight mom called and left a message that

she

> is

> > > > going

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > see a buddhist therapist. considering that dialectic

> > behavior

> > > > > > therapy

> > > > > > > is focused on mindfulness and other aspects that

directly

> > > > > > translate to

> > > > > > > buddhist philosophy, i was like, alright! progress!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > anyway, i gave her a call and it was okay for a little

> > while,

> > > > > but

> > > > > > then

> > > > > > > she was like, " do you REALLY think i beat you? do you

> > REALLY

> > > > > think

> > > > > > > you knew what was going on when you were little? "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > i'm like... " why, yes i do. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > anyway, basically mom has made amends with everyone in

> her

> > life

> > > > > > > (except for me) and that clearly i am going to

therapy,

> so

> > i am

> > > > > the

> > > > > > > one with the problem. talking to my sister about mom

is

> > > > > apparently

> > > > > > > inappropriate. also, the reason i might have THOUGHT

that

> > i was

> > > > > > > beaten was because i was a " difficult child " who

> > wouldn't " let "

> > > > > > mom do

> > > > > > > the things she wanted to. apparently the things she

> wanted

> > to

> > > > > do

> > > > > > were

> > > > > > > hanging out with guys. so watching this woman's

children

> > while

> > > > > she

> > > > > > > goes and hangs out with guys is not supposed to make

me

> > angry?

> > > > > > > saying, NO, I NEED TO DO HOMEWORK or NO, I WANT TO

STAY

> > HOME a)

> > > > > > makes

> > > > > > > me a difficult child, kept her from doing what she

> > wanted to

> > > > > do,

> > > > > > > and c) justifies her actions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > wtf? she's blaming me for all the problems! HA! this

> > > > actually

> > > > > > makes

> > > > > > > me laugh! i was a kid, and i had all this control! i

wish

> > i

> > > > > had

> > > > > > used

> > > > > > > this power for awesome while i still had it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > then she also said that if i wanted to

discuss " family "

> > issues,

> > > > i

> > > > > > > needed to do it with a therapist. apparently i can't

talk

> > to

> > > > HER

> > > > > > > about family issues.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > that just does not make a lick of sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > she wasn't listening to me, so i calmly said, " you are

> not

> > > > > > listening

> > > > > > > to me. (wait) you are obviously not listening to me.

> > (wait)

> > > > > > okay,

> > > > > > > you are not listening to me, so i am hanging up. have

a

> > good

> > > > > > evening. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > about 5 mins later, she called and left a surprisingly

> > calm

> > > > > message

> > > > > > > about how she didn't think individual therapy was

> > necessary for

> > > > > her

> > > > > > > and that family therapy was what would help us. yeah,

> > that's

> > > > > JUST

> > > > > > > what we need to do! either get in a room and have mom

cry

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > everyone is out to attack her and she can tell

everyone

> > how

> > > > evil

> > > > > > her

> > > > > > > daughter(s) are OR get a therapist to give her a clean

> > bill of

> > > > > > mental

> > > > > > > health so she can just go back to her old ways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > WHATEVER! if having standards is what she considers

being

> > > > > > difficult,

> > > > > > > then i'm just going to have to be difficult! if having

> > > > > integrity

> > > > > > is

> > > > > > > what she considers being difficult, then i LIKE being

> > > > > difficult. i

> > > > > > > take PRIDE in being difficult. i will not put up with

> this

> > any

> > > > > > > longer. this is a joke.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > she can no longer take credit for my success and blame

me

> > for

> > > > her

> > > > > > > failures. it does not work that way ANY MORE.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > bink

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

One of my (younger) sisters seemed to get more of nada's negative

attention. That sister was the more defiant, rebellious one, and is

the one that is most similar to nada's personality (except doesn't

have bpd). That sister got hit (with a piece of wood) from the time

she was 2 years old. I guess 2yo and 11yo are both rebellious

stages. Nada can't handle anyone not doing what she says/wants,

expressing a different opinion to her. I was the passive quiet one

in my bedroom reading books, to minimize getting nada's attention.

I remember my therapist asking me where was my rebellious side

(normal stages of a 2 yo and teenager), and I said I don't know, it

was squashed out of me. I didn't dare rebel against nada. That

sister was dad's favourite of the 3 daughters, so she got some

positive attention too. I think ultimately that sister as a

teenager was a bit passive with nada too. My sisters and I never

went of the rails as teens/adults, but we all are really isolated,

don't have friends, and have problems with relationships/intimacy.

By the way, my dad works really long hours too. He's loyal and

passive to nada. He copped a lot of verbal abuse from her at the

time (and still does). He didn't stand up to nada to protect us.

He still trys to get me to do what nada wants by using guilt etc.

I'm very LC with the both of them. I need the distance.

>

> Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

>

> When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

> mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

always

> loyal to her.

>

> I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

> stood up for him against mom far more than me.

>

> His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

about

> mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> classic narcissist.

>

> -Kyla

>

[Guest guest]

I have a similar story. My more rebellious sister was also hit with a

piece of wood when she was around two or three years old. My nada

threw a rolling pin at her and hit her on the foot. My sister was just

old enough to retain the memory.

And like you, I never went through a teenage rebellion. There was no

question in my mind. It couldn't be done. I had to be invisible & have

no needs--but I was still raged at.

My nada's emotional needs were so extreme, that there wasn't room for

anyone else in the family to express their feelings or opinions.

Survival meant hiding. Even my fada would always say, " Just keep your

head down and let it pass. " What a mantra! His other mantra was " Nada

can do and say whatever she wants. " ... codependence central!

> >

> > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> >

> > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

> > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> always

> > loyal to her.

> >

> > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

> > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> >

> > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> about

> > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > classic narcissist.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, and wow. On several points your family story/dynamic is identical to mine.

That

never ceases to amaze me how eerily similar BPD behaviors are, like these

people / family

dynamics popped out of the same mold!

My FOO:

*sweet, loving, passive and mostly workaholic dad (eventually drank himself to

death.)

*two daughters, the poor little younger one was the family " bad " child.

*the older one (me) was " daddy's girl " and was the " good " child.

*neither daughter went through rebellious phases... ever.

(both of us are loners and have had no long-term SO relationships.)

*Jekyll-and-Hyde nada: dangerous when alone with the kids, the very picture of

perfection

in public.

(footnote: nada liked playing Sister and I off against each other as we grew up

and

became adults. She really, really didn't like it when Sister and I became close

friends; she

wanted us to compete with each other for her favor instead of us being a united

front!

She'd get angry if I had news from Sister before nada did, or vice versa.

Insane. Insane.

Insane...!)

Poor dad. When he was around, nada was focused on him instead of us, doing that

constant picky, critical thing that she did to us kids when he wasn't there.

Nada was never

happy, always pushing, pushing us to do this or that her way (perfectly) or she

was over-

dramatizing our failings, humiliating us, etc. Nada will still attempt to pick

fights with

Sister or me; its just drive-you-up-the-wall frustrating. I think she considers

fighting a

sport or hobby; she likes it. Even writing about this is making my blood

pressure go up!

It was like an epiphany, a wonderment, when I finally realized that I didn't

have to stand

there and take the verbal/physical assaults anymore... I was an adult, I did not

live there,

and *I* *could* *just* *leave*!! I know that sounds kind of anticlimactic, but

I had been

trained from birth that if nada was screaming and raging at me, I had to stand

there

rooted to the spot and let her! I'll never forget that heady sense of freedom

and the look

of shock on nada's face when I said for the first time, " I'm going now, goodbye "

as she was

shifting into high gear for another red-faced, screaming rants!

-Annie

-- In WTOAdultChildren1 , " p_bear16 " wrote:

>

> One of my (younger) sisters seemed to get more of nada's negative

> attention. That sister was the more defiant, rebellious one, and is

> the one that is most similar to nada's personality (except doesn't

> have bpd). That sister got hit (with a piece of wood) from the time

> she was 2 years old. I guess 2yo and 11yo are both rebellious

> stages. Nada can't handle anyone not doing what she says/wants,

> expressing a different opinion to her. I was the passive quiet one

> in my bedroom reading books, to minimize getting nada's attention.

> I remember my therapist asking me where was my rebellious side

> (normal stages of a 2 yo and teenager), and I said I don't know, it

> was squashed out of me. I didn't dare rebel against nada. That

> sister was dad's favourite of the 3 daughters, so she got some

> positive attention too. I think ultimately that sister as a

> teenager was a bit passive with nada too. My sisters and I never

> went of the rails as teens/adults, but we all are really isolated,

> don't have friends, and have problems with relationships/intimacy.

> By the way, my dad works really long hours too. He's loyal and

> passive to nada. He copped a lot of verbal abuse from her at the

> time (and still does). He didn't stand up to nada to protect us.

> He still trys to get me to do what nada wants by using guilt etc.

> I'm very LC with the both of them. I need the distance.

>

>

>

> >

> > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> >

> > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

> > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> always

> > loyal to her.

> >

> > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

> > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> >

> > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> about

> > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > classic narcissist.

> >

> > -Kyla

> >

>

[Guest guest]

That makes me cry to read your post. Poor little two year old; poor little

helpless kids.

God. You nailed it, nadas are like, " There is only ME, there is no room for you

and your

needs and your feelings, you are here to serve ME and MY NEEDS. " God help us,

its a

wonder any of us survived at all.

-Annie

> > >

> > > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> > > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> > > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> > >

> > > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

> > > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> > > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> > always

> > > loyal to her.

> > >

> > > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

> > > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> > >

> > > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> > about

> > > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> > > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > > classic narcissist.

> > >

> > > -Kyla

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" I'll never forget that heady sense of freedom

and the look of shock on nada's face when I said for the first

time, " I'm going now, goodbye " as she was shifting into high gear

for another red-faced, screaming rants! "

Annie -- I LOVE IT!!! Good for you! We DO NOT HAVE TO STAND THERE

(OR SIT ON THE PHONE) AND TAKE ABUSE FROM ANYONE!!

You're right: it's SO SIMPLE as to be anticlimactic! I think my

mother is taken aback when I do the same thing on the phone -- when

she either starts in on her negativity, or starts the crying jag.

I'll say something like " Well, sounds like you need some time --

I'll let you go. "

Throws her for a loop -- she doesn't do it much with me anymore.

She doesn't get the payoff.

That dance takes TWO people -- when we were young, we were forced to

stay there and take it. Once we're grown, we're free to walk off

the dance floor.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content

with

> > > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " --

while

> > > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> > >

> > > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an

alcoholic

> > > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her

savior.

> > > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> > always

> > > loyal to her.

> > >

> > > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my

dad

> > > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> > >

> > > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> > about

> > > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he

instantly

> > > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > > classic narcissist.

> > >

> > > -Kyla

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I could have written your post, except that I was the younger 'good'

kid & my sister was the older 'bad' one. BPD symptoms are weirdly just

like cold or flu symptoms...it's truly amazing that the dysfunctional

behavior-patterns are so similar. At least we're all in this together.

We can help each other in ways that no one else can. The internet has

been our biggest saving grace in this.

> > >

> > > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> > > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> > > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> > >

> > > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an alcoholic

> > > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> > > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> > always

> > > loyal to her.

> > >

> > > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my dad

> > > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> > >

> > > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> > about

> > > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> > > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > > classic narcissist.

> > >

> > > -Kyla

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I know!! It is amazing that we have survived! I've had a pretty odd

life, but all and all not too bad, considering.

KOs have a lot of inner strength. I bet we're stronger than most. The

hardest part is making the first move--taking that tiny first step

away from the BPD parent--then bit by bit, taking control of your life

until it's yours 100%.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, -- my father worked round the clock -- content with

> > > > the knowledge that he was out " working for the family " -- while

> > > > abandoning that same family to the insanity of his wife.

> > > >

> > > > When he met her, she was a helpless waif (daughter of an

alcoholic

> > > > mother and rager father), and my dad could easily be her savior.

> > > > Those were the roles their marriage was based on, and dad was

> > > always

> > > > loyal to her.

> > > >

> > > > I remember my younger brother was given more privileges and my

dad

> > > > stood up for him against mom far more than me.

> > > >

> > > > His narcissism also shows itself if I dare venture an opinion

> > > about

> > > > mom that's different than his way of coddling her -- he instantly

> > > > lashes out and resorts to bullying. His way is the only way --

> > > > classic narcissist.

> > > >

> > > > -Kyla

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Annie, I could have written your post as well.

My dad - sweet, loving, passive, mostly workaholic.

Jekyll-and-Hyde nada: I used to feel so annoyed when she'd be

yelling at us kids one minute, then the phone would ring and she'd

answer it in sweet calm voice " hello " . (Because it would be one of

her friends ringing.)

She keeps my sisters around her physically (same town) and under her

control/fear. This way she can control them (unlike me who moved a

long way away), and also this way she still has a link to me because

I have a relationship with my sisters.

Nada was/is contanstly picky, critical, points out failings,

humiliating whoever is around her - dad and that younger sister cop

most of it. I cop it when I'm around nada or on the phone. Now I

only communicate through email with her.

> >

> > Yes, and wow. On several points your family story/dynamic is

> identical to mine. That

> > never ceases to amaze me how eerily similar BPD behaviors are,

like

> these people / family

> > dynamics popped out of the same mold!

> >

> > My FOO:

> > *sweet, loving, passive and mostly workaholic dad (eventually

drank

> himself to death.)

> > *two daughters, the poor little younger one was the family " bad "

child.

> > *the older one (me) was " daddy's girl " and was the " good " child.

> > *neither daughter went through rebellious phases... ever.

> > (both of us are loners and have had no long-term SO

relationships.)

> > *Jekyll-and-Hyde nada: dangerous when alone with the kids, the

very

> picture of perfection

> > in public.

> >

> > (footnote: nada liked playing Sister and I off against each

other

> as we grew up and

> > became adults. She really, really didn't like it when Sister

and I

> became close friends; she

> > wanted us to compete with each other for her favor instead of us

> being a united front!

> > She'd get angry if I had news from Sister before nada did, or

vice

> versa. Insane. Insane.

> > Insane...!)

> >

> > Poor dad. When he was around, nada was focused on him instead of

> us, doing that

> > constant picky, critical thing that she did to us kids when he

> wasn't there. Nada was never

> > happy, always pushing, pushing us to do this or that her way

> (perfectly) or she was over-

> > dramatizing our failings, humiliating us, etc. Nada will still

> attempt to pick fights with

> > Sister or me; its just drive-you-up-the-wall frustrating. I think

> she considers fighting a

> > sport or hobby; she likes it. Even writing about this is making

my

> blood pressure go up!

> >

> > It was like an epiphany, a wonderment, when I finally realized

that

> I didn't have to stand

> > there and take the verbal/physical assaults anymore... I was an

> adult, I did not live there,

> > and *I* *could* *just* *leave*!! I know that sounds kind of

> anticlimactic, but I had been

> > trained from birth that if nada was screaming and raging at me, I

> had to stand there

> > rooted to the spot and let her! I'll never forget that heady

> sense of freedom and the look

> > of shock on nada's face when I said for the first time, " I'm

going

> now, goodbye " as she was

> > shifting into high gear for another red-faced, screaming

rants!

> > -Annie

> >

[Guest guest]

Mr Zarkley, " I had to be invisible & have

> no needs--but I was still raged at. "

I reacted to the word " invisble " . I haven't realised this before

but that was exactly what I was trying to do. Even my posture as a

teen and adult was trying to achieve that. My shoulders were really

hunched over, and in lifts/elevators I'd always stand against the

back corner wall, like I was trying to shrink into the wall. After

I'd been in therapy awhile, my posture just changed, and I walk more

upright now! :-)

>

> I have a similar story. My more rebellious sister was also hit

with a

> piece of wood when she was around two or three years old. My nada

> threw a rolling pin at her and hit her on the foot. My sister was

just

> old enough to retain the memory.

>

> And like you, I never went through a teenage rebellion. There was

no

> question in my mind. It couldn't be done. I had to be invisible &

have

> no needs--but I was still raged at.

>

> My nada's emotional needs were so extreme, that there wasn't room

for

> anyone else in the family to express their feelings or opinions.

> Survival meant hiding. Even my fada would always say, " Just keep

your

> head down and let it pass. " What a mantra! His other mantra

was " Nada

> can do and say whatever she wants. " ... codependence central!

>

[Guest guest]

I was too terrified to rebel, too. I just tried to be invisible,

too. My mother scared me. She still does to this day -- and I

don't know why. She is harmless now, but the old fear is still

there.

I'm still timid out in the world, too. Not a trailblazer at all. I

regret that.

-Kyla

> >

> > I have a similar story. My more rebellious sister was also hit

> with a

> > piece of wood when she was around two or three years old. My nada

> > threw a rolling pin at her and hit her on the foot. My sister

was

> just

> > old enough to retain the memory.

> >

> > And like you, I never went through a teenage rebellion. There

was

> no

> > question in my mind. It couldn't be done. I had to be invisible

&

> have

> > no needs--but I was still raged at.

> >

> > My nada's emotional needs were so extreme, that there wasn't

room

> for

> > anyone else in the family to express their feelings or opinions.

> > Survival meant hiding. Even my fada would always say, " Just keep

> your

> > head down and let it pass. " What a mantra! His other mantra

> was " Nada

> > can do and say whatever she wants. " ... codependence central!

> >

>