Re: Leg swollen, advice please!

[Guest guest]

On 6/6/06, dishchrista <dishchrista@...> wrote:

> Greetings all! Yesterday morning I woke up with a terrible lower back

> ache. It took a few hours and ibuprofin [sp?] before I could bend

> over. The pain eased by noon and my left leg began to get stiff. My

> mid afternoon it was swollen to probably 25% larger than my right

> leg. No other symptoms. I didn't eat anything out of the ordinary

> over the weekend. I'm not diabetic nor do I have any health

> conditions that I know of.

<snip>

Hi,

That sounds exactly like what my friend with blood clots in his legs

experienced. The doctors were convinced it was a pinched nerve in the

back because of the pain there, but once the legs started swelling

they called it blood clots.

I know nutritionally you can thin the blood by avoiding vitamin K (or

a certain form of it) as much as you can, eat natto beans regularly or

an enzyme extract of them called nattokinase, and I'm sure there're

lots of other things. *Please do be careful though*; blood clots can

dislodge and cause a stroke or heart attack. My friend was luckily

free of that thanks to a freak surgical screwup in a previous

operation where they left a filter in one of his arteries by accident

that may have saved him this time. Anyhow, if it gets much worse it

may be worth biting the bullet with a doctor until you can get it

under control by yourself in the long term.

Something I just found at http://tinyurl.com/ev4pk (health.enotes.com):

" Nutritional therapy may include the following: vitamins B3 (niacin),

B6, C, and E; fatty acid and garlic supplements; and the minerals

zinc, magnesium, and manganese. Herbal remedies may include cayenne

(Capsicum frutescens), other hot peppers, and gingko (Ginkgo biloba)

to help reduce the protein fibrin, which is a necessary factor in

blood clots. Bilberry (Vaccinium myrtillus), turmeric (Curcuma longa),

and ginger (Zingiber officinale) help reduce platelets' stickiness,

which is essential for clot formation. Onion (Allium sepa) and garlic

(A. sativum) help reduce fibrin and platelet stickiness. Patients who

are taking prescribed anticoagulant drugs should consult their doctors

before starting vitamin, nutritional, or herbal therapies.

" Hydrotherapy treatment for blood clots can include contrast

applications. The patient alternates using hot and cold treatments on

the body in the area of the clot to increase blood flow. A naturopath

will recommend specific remedies based on the symptoms and personality

of a particular patient. A remedy for blood clots may include

Hamamelis. Massage can be helpful if blood clots are a result of poor

circulation, although care should be taken if a person suffers from

phlebitis, since a clot could mobilize and lodge elsewhere. "

Their nutritional notes seem pretty regurgitated in general, but the

rest seems like good info. i'm sure there's a ton more out there.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your input. Blood clots, eh? Not good. I have

scheduled an appointment with a chiropractor for tomorrow who was

highly recommended to me. I'm sure he'll know more about the risk and

possible holistic remedies. If he recommends an MD I'll go. I'm not

so cheap I'll risk a heart attack or stroke. In the meantime I do

have some cayenne and tumeric and will try that.

The good news is I got on my rebounder for five minutes an hour ago,

gently [feet didn't leave surface]. I've felt some release of

pressure in my upper thigh. [finally!] I'll try to get on the

rebounder for a few minutes each hour and see if the improvement

continues.

Thanks again. I welcome comments from others.

Christa

--- In , " Furbish " >

> That sounds exactly like what my friend with blood clots in his legs

> experienced. The doctors were convinced it was a pinched nerve in

the

> back because of the pain there, but once the legs started swelling

> they called it blood clots.

>

*Please do be careful though*; blood clots can

> dislodge and cause a stroke or heart attack. My friend was luckily

> free of that thanks to a freak surgical screwup in a previous

> operation where they left a filter in one of his arteries by

accident

> that may have saved him this time. Anyhow, if it gets much worse it

> may be worth biting the bullet with a doctor until you can get it

> under control by yourself in the long term.

[Guest guest]

Nephritis?

>

> Greetings all! Yesterday morning I woke up with a terrible lower

back

> ache. It took a few hours and ibuprofin [sp?] before I could bend

> over. The pain eased by noon and my left leg began to get stiff.

My

> mid afternoon it was swollen to probably 25% larger than my right

> leg. No other symptoms. I didn't eat anything out of the ordinary

> over the weekend. I'm not diabetic nor do I have any health

> conditions that I know of.

>

> I got a massage late yesterday afternoon, which didn't help my leg

> but helped w/ residual back stiffness. Last night I applied a

> poultice of bentonite clay with no beneficial effect. Sat in my

fir

> sauna for an hour. Drank quarts of filtered water with a bit of

Real

> Salt added. Didn't help. Today my left leg is 50% larger than the

> right. It is *extremely* uncomfortable and I can barely walk.

>

> I'm thinking a salt bath might help draw the fluid out but I don't

> have a bath tub, nor does anyone I know. I'm hoping someone here

can

> share any success with a natural relatively inexpensive method for

> swollen limbs, etc.

>

> If nothing else I am willing to rent a cheap motel room just to

use

> their tub. If I do, what kind of salts are best and what

temperature?

>

> I sincerely appreciate any and all help!

>

> Christa

>

> I'm cross posting this to the discussingnt group.

>

[Guest guest]

I freind of mine gave me a Reiki therapy yesterday for my knee, which has

begun to get stiff and hurt. It was my first ever session. All I can say is that

it was remarkable. I'd say that my knee pain is at a 2 now, while usually it's

at a 6 when it flares up. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced

it. Might be worth a try.

pax,

Danae

" Mother's milk and mother's arms have always been available, patiently

waiting for the passing of man's foolhardy arrogance, which tried to convince us

that his inventions were superior to nature. "

Tine Thevenin

Baby boys are the only group in society having medically unnecessary

surgery without their consent.

[Guest guest]

,

Just wanted to let you know that that is exactly what I had. Thanks

in part to the urging on the forums I went to the emergency room on

Tuesday night. I honestly expected the response to my inquiry to be a

few home remedies and 'make a doctor's appointment'. I wouldn't have

gone to the emergency room without urging [no insurance, no doctor,

and frankly I've never been helped by doctors in the past. I've

healed myself from my other maladies].

I had a blood clot from my ankle to my pelvis. They installed a

filter below my heart and basically roto-rootered the artery on

Saturday. It turns out the back cramp followed by painful breathing

episode I had three weeks ago was a pulmonary embolism. I am very

fortunate to be alive, and full of gratitude.

Since I am only 34 the doctors think it is a genetic mutation and

I'll probably be on blood thinners for life. I'll know more when the

detailed test results come in.

Christa

> On 6/6/06, dishchrista <dishchrista@...> wrote:

> > Greetings all! Yesterday morning I woke up with a terrible lower

back ache. ...

>

> Hi,

>

> That sounds exactly like what my friend with blood clots in his legs

> experienced....

[Guest guest]

On 6/14/06, dishchrista <dishchrista@...> wrote:

<snip>

> I had a blood clot from my ankle to my pelvis. They installed a

> filter below my heart and basically roto-rootered the artery on

> Saturday. It turns out the back cramp followed by painful breathing

> episode I had three weeks ago was a pulmonary embolism. I am very

> fortunate to be alive, and full of gratitude.

Hi Christa,

I'm really glad to hear you're OK... just yesterday it occurred to me

that we hadn't heard anything after your last note. Sorry you had to

go through that roto-rooting. That's a nasty procedure, but at least

it's all stabilized and on its way to being sorted.

> Since I am only 34 the doctors think it is a genetic mutation and

> I'll probably be on blood thinners for life. I'll know more when the

> detailed test results come in.

I bet if you start with some alternative remedies you can reduce the

amount of coumadin or whatever that you have to take to hit that magic

" between 2 and 3 " number they go on about.

Best of luck! I'll be curious to hear how you get on with whatever

you decide to try.

Plus, though my friend is following the standard party line, a good

open-minded experimenter like yourself might help me budge him.

>

> Christa

>

>

> > On 6/6/06, dishchrista <dishchrista@...> wrote:

> > > Greetings all! Yesterday morning I woke up with a terrible lower

>

> back ache. ...

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > That sounds exactly like what my friend with blood clots in his legs

>

> > experienced....

[Guest guest]

Glad you're still with us and got it taken care of!

Just so you know, and many doctors don't know this, there are a

couple of blood-dwelling parasites that cause the blood to thicken

and clump. They are drawn to the iron in the hemoglobin, I

believe. There is an herbal remedy for them, a product called

artemisinin, made from artemesia. It attacks and destroys cells

that have a lot of iron (incidently, cancer does as well, and it's

pretty good at killing cancer cells), but isn't harmful to healthy

hemoglobin in the blood.

I think Allergy Research Group sells it, as does Holley

Pharmaceuticals (www.holleypharma.com). I got mine from Holley and

they recently sent me a card saying that it works ten times better

if you take it with butyric acid supplements - GABA is " G Amino

Butyric Acid " .

I think Igenex tests for the parasites, but they're expensive. I'd

say since the artemisinin is only around $30 and the test is around

$250, and artemisinin has very low toxicity, you could just get some

and try it for a few days to see if anything happens. It's always

nice to have a cure for cancer in the cupboard anyways. I've given

it to a couple of people whose dogs had cancer. Vets haven't said

they're cured, but they're still alive last I heard and one was only

supposed to live a few weeks.

Killing off a large number of parasites causes some toxicity

problems because they tend to hold heavy metals, which all get

released upon their death, and because if the body doesn't have

enough enzymes you get all these proteins from the dead parasites in

the blood upsetting the immune system and " rotting. " Many in the

lyme group who treat the blood parasites do liver cleanses, like

coffee enemas (I prefer dandelion root tea). I've been wondering

lately if taking large doses of proteases (the enzymes that break

down proteins) would help as well, since they can be absorbed

directly into the blood from the stomach, and are pretty harmless,

since they only attack dead cells.

I'm no expert on chelating, but I've heard there are some chelating

agents that just bind to heavy metals and escourt them out of the

blood. I'd guess if you were treating blood parasites, you'd want

those as well.

Hope this helps,

Renate

>

> ,

>

> Just wanted to let you know that that is exactly what I had.

> I had a blood clot from my ankle to my pelvis. They installed a

> filter below my heart and basically roto-rootered the artery on

> Saturday. It turns out the back cramp followed by painful

breathing

> episode I had three weeks ago was a pulmonary embolism. I am very

> fortunate to be alive, and full of gratitude.

>

> Since I am only 34 the doctors think it is a genetic mutation and

> I'll probably be on blood thinners for life.

[Guest guest]

Christa,

Food and supplement interactions with coumadin

http://www.ppsrx.com/ppsrx/hn/Drug/Warfarin.htm

Wanita

Since I am only 34 the doctors think it is a genetic mutation and

I'll probably be on blood thinners for life. I'll know more when the

detailed test results come in.

Christa

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks for your support! I'm just starting to research alt remedies.

The surgeon who did the procedure is also doing my follow-up. He seems

open minded enough to broach the topic of experimenting with herbs,

etc. I'll be happy to share my experience as it goes.

Christa

>

> I bet if you start with some alternative remedies you can reduce the

> amount of coumadin or whatever that you have to take to hit that magic

> " between 2 and 3 " number they go on about.

>

> Best of luck! I'll be curious to hear how you get on with whatever

> you decide to try.

>

> Plus, though my friend is following the standard party line, a good

> open-minded experimenter like yourself might help me budge him.

[Guest guest]

Babesia is the parasite I was thinking of, but malaria does the same

thing, some say once you've had malaria you can carry it being

mostly asymptomatic for the rest of your life. There are other ones

as well, but very hard to find info. on them.

Babesia has been getting a lot of attention lately because it's

incidence is increasing hugely, especially in the New York area, but

also in PA, CN, FL, CA, among other places. One site said there are

18 strains of babesia, but labs only test for two of them.

Some of the symptoms of babesia are air hunger, vertigo, migranes,

anorexia, & fatigue. The medical community doesn't really have a

good treatment for it. People who have had their spleens removed

are at especially high risk for having problems with it.

Hope this helps!

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Just wanted to let you know that that is exactly what I had.

> > I had a blood clot from my ankle to my pelvis. They installed a

> > filter below my heart and basically roto-rootered the artery on

> > Saturday. It turns out the back cramp followed by painful

> breathing

> > episode I had three weeks ago was a pulmonary embolism. I am

very

> > fortunate to be alive, and full of gratitude.

> >

> > Since I am only 34 the doctors think it is a genetic mutation

and

> > I'll probably be on blood thinners for life.

>

[Guest guest]

Renate,

Thanks for the food for thought. I admit to being a 'parasite skeptic.'

Not that the herbal remedies don't help people who believe they have

parasites, but I suspect parasites aren't necessarily the cause of

their illness [for some, not all]. I intend to check out artemisinin

and butyric acid. I had checked out the holley site a few weeks ago,

I'll go back and dig some more.

I'm somewhat familiar with die-off symptoms and heavy metal detox. I

take chlorella and use a far infrared sauna when I can. Firtunately, I

know my liver is in good shape after having several stone cleanses and

I take liver support drops every day.

Christa

[Guest guest]

Wanita, excellent reference, thanks! A cursary glance worries me, it

looks like one can't take any bloody vitamins or supps w/ it. I'm just

as interested in checking out what supplements/ foods *increase* the

effectiveness of warfarin. I'm hoping some combination may act as a

substitute.

Christa

>

> Christa,

>

> Food and supplement interactions with coumadin

> http://www.ppsrx.com/ppsrx/hn/Drug/Warfarin.htm

>

> Wanita

>

[Guest guest]

Christa,

Garlic, vitamin E, fish oil and vitamin K foods thin blood. Wheather it is

equal to or does it same as coumadin, don't know. Found that searching garlic

vitamin E coumadin. My Mom after 1 month on garlic and E could have cut her

coumadin in 1/2. Dr.didn't go for it. Hopefully your doc sees blood quality and

your health with supplements just as important as your blood's thinness.

Wanita

Wanita, excellent reference, thanks! A cursary glance worries me, it

looks like one can't take any bloody vitamins or supps w/ it. I'm just

as interested in checking out what supplements/ foods *increase* the

effectiveness of warfarin. I'm hoping some combination may act as a

substitute.

Christa

>

> Christa,

>

> Food and supplement interactions with coumadin

> http://www.ppsrx.com/ppsrx/hn/Drug/Warfarin.htm

>

> Wanita

>

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[Guest guest]

Babesia, once thought to be only a tropical disease is now present

in 91% of dogs sampled in the United States.

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2005.227.942;jsess

ionid=o1aektxbnQFb83bJvV?cookieSet=1 & journalCode=javma

The Canary Database, which looks at infections in animals that may

be a threat to humans seems to indicate that the same vectors

(ticks) spreading babesia to dogs, also spread it to humans.

http://canarydatabase.org/record/560

Reports from Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts

indicate that reports of babesia in human populations are

increasing, even though most doctors know nothing about this disease

and there are few reliable tests for it once it is suspected.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20010515/1969.html

> I admit to being a 'parasite skeptic.'

[Guest guest]

Do you know of a good food vitamin K supplement?

On Jun 14, 2006, at 5:00 PM, Wanita wrote:

> Garlic, vitamin E, fish oil and vitamin K foods thin blood

Parashis

artpages@...

zine:

artpagesonline.com

portfolio:

http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html

[Guest guest]

On 6/15/06, Wanita <wanitawa@...> wrote:

> Christa,

>

> Garlic, vitamin E, fish oil and vitamin K foods thin blood. <snip>

> Wanita

The other way around on Vitamin K-- it allows blood clots to form.

Restricting it reduces clotting. Along with your blood thinner

prescription doctors give you a list of all the foods high in it so

you can start avoiding them.

In looking to make sure I didn't have it backward I found that " K "

comes from the Danish word " koagulering " supposedly meaning clotting.

Thank you inter-world for giving us such anecdotes to brighten our

fluorescently-lit lives!

[Guest guest]

I also must take Coumadin and I am not supposed to eat alot of Vit K.

Vit K is needed to make clotting factors that help the blood to clot and prevent

bleeding which means that it will interfere with Coumadin.

Coumadin is prescribed to prevent blood clots and thins the blood to flow more

easily through narrowed blood vessels.

The more Vit K that you eat, the more Coumadin that is needed.

Your dr should schedule bloodwork to check your

PT (Pro Time) regularly and will adjust your Coumadin accordinly to what range

he wants to keep it in and what range you are in.

If the pro time varies, you may have to have bloodwork more often. If it stays

fairly consistant you may only have to be tested monthly.

Garlic, Vit E, Fish Oil, CLO, will thin your blood but not Vit K.

You also must be careful with prescribed meds because some interfere with

Coumadin as well as over the counter drugs & herbs.

HTH

CherylC

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

Do you supplement garlic, E, and fish oils? If so, have you been able

to reduce your coumadin rx?

Doc said not to eat a lot of vitamin k foods. I'm a little uncertain

what 'a lot' is. If I eat a spring mix salad every other day would that

cause significant coumadin interference? I don't think the spring mixes

have any spinach but they do have other dark leafy greens.

Christa

> Garlic, Vit E, Fish Oil, CLO, will thin your blood but not Vit K.

> You also must be careful with prescribed meds because some interfere

with Coumadin as well as over the counter drugs & herbs.

>

> HTH

> CherylC

[Guest guest]

Christa,

A salad every other day shouldn't make a significant difference.

I was told to eat normally, not to significantly change my diet, while they

got my Coumadin adjusted--they may not get the doseage correct the first

time or two. Then I made adjustments with my diet and had to be adjusted a

few more times.

Summers are hardest for me because I LOVE veggies and have a garden so I eat

them every day. Salads some times 2 times a day and raw veggies with

dressing. YUM!.

(The greener the plant, the greater the Vit k content)

(I eat them all--broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, spinach, lettuce,

asparagus, dill pickles, sauerkraut, peas, cukes, celery, tomatoes,

blueberries, grapes, squash, beets.

As well as liver, I love chicken livers. Eggs. Green tea. )

Try to mentally keep a tally so that if you notice a change in your PT you

will be able to track it to --I know I shouldn't have but I have been eating

2 huge salads a day, or I have eaten chicken livers every day this week etc.

Or I was eating 2 salads a day and cut back to one a day, etc.

You can go here to see a food/herb list

http://www.dietitian.com/vitamink.html

http://tinyurl.com/p5lmo

http://www.ppsrx.com/ppsrx/hn/Drug/Warfarin.htm

Here are some eating tips & info

http://www.drgourmet.com/warfarin/index.shtml

http://ag.arizona.edu/NSC/courses/301nsc/unit7/nutrient_drug_outline.htm

I didn't remember seeing it on these sites but I was told not to drink

grapefruit juice within 2 hrs before or after I take coumadin.

Yes, I know I shouldn't have a lot of garlic but I use a lot of it. I also

take Cod Liver Oil.

Yes, I have reduced my prescription from 2- 2 1/2 daily (10mg),

to 1 on M,W,F & 1 1/2 the rest of the week,

to 1 daily now.

I started having my PT 2 times a week,

to once weekly and now to once a month.

The key to regulating your PT is consistancy. Not changing your eating

drastically either way.

**Make sure you always get your PT when it is scheduled.

**Wear a medic alert bracelet for coumadin.

HTH

CherylC

[Guest guest]

> Christa,

>

> Garlic, vitamin E, fish oil and vitamin K foods thin blood.

> Wanita

The other way around on Vitamin K-- it allows blood clots to form.

Restricting it reduces clotting. Along with your blood thinner

prescription doctors give you a list of all the foods high in it so

you can start avoiding them.

In looking to make sure I didn't have it backward I found that " K "

comes from the Danish word " koagulering " supposedly meaning clotting.

Thank you inter-world for giving us such anecdotes to brighten our

fluorescently-lit lives!

Thanks for correcting my misinterpretation, . Was late for me.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

Thank you for your detailed reply! I'm very hapy to hear that a side

salad a day won't pose a problem. I completely identify with your

love of fresh vegetables... if I had a garden I don't think I could

help myself! Also pleased to hear that it isn't so much the quantity

of 'bad foods' but being consistent.

I've made an appointment w/ my doc to discuss trying garlic, vitamin

E, etc to lower my coumadin dosage, and ideally to eliminate it

altogether. I'm taking 5mg/ day.

Thanks for the reminder to get a med alert bracelet. I have one on

order.

In good health,

Christa

--- In , " Cheryl C " <lilgrngeo@...>

wrote:

> A salad every other day shouldn't make a significant difference.

> Summers are hardest for me because I LOVE veggies and have a garden

so I eat them every day.

> **Wear a medic alert bracelet for coumadin.