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Tony,

This might sound offensive, but she sounds like a real witch. " What

feelings are stirred up now? " ??????? After she just defamed you to

your entire family and both of them are playing the martyr, while

you were off on vacation having a pleasant time and didn't expect to

return home to chaos. I don't mean to be blunt and offend you, I

just want to give you an outside reaction because it seems to be

that you are being manipulated with NO regard for your feelings at

all. Both parents are saying and doing incredibly hurtful things to

you, and then turning around and acting like YOU hurt THEM. And of

course they aren't lying or twisting the facts, because they are

your parents and they wouldn't do that, right??? (not). Here is

something to chew on: you can still love them even if they are

manipulative liars. You don't have to like their behavior but you

can still love them. What I see you doing is trying to make them

into something they are not, and pretend they are not what they are,

to meet some conditions you have for relationship with them. They

aren't the people you want to be, they are behaving TERRIBLY. I

think you need reinforcements, like a therapist who knows bpd

because you are being double-teamed horribly, and to make matters

worse they've brought the whole family on board now. It's okay to

come here and ask for advice as many times as you need to, as well

as support, and it's perfectly okay to NOT know how to handle this,

and to not address it, and like others have advised, to attend the

parties if you want without regard to their demands.

When I read her letter I get the image of an evil queen in a castle

like in Snow White, looking at her reflection in the mirror and

smiling at her cleverness. Just by the tone of your response it's

obvious she has you confused and questioning reality again, which is

where she wants you. I won't take it personally if you feel this

description is too harsh, I just want you to see how she is coming

off to a person outside the situation.

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I kind of think a gauntlet has been thrown and thanks to their

behavior and the inane 'shifts' thing it's moved your relationship

further into the pale. It's like Act 5 scene 1 take 47. I have

a 'fake' and 'get by' relationship with my parents and don't expect

any real reason or intimacy. But if you believe they are capable of

it and really want to work toward an honest exchange of feelings

someday I think I would back the whole thing up and just send them

an e-mail saying 'you violated my trust by involving the whole

family, I want all this b.s. shift drama to stop and I want you to

demonstrate for me that I can trust you to keep personal matters

private and then eventually someday maybe we can broach the issue of

getting back to the point where we were before the Italy trip. Right

now you have screwed things up immeasurably and I've about had it.'

But that's just me, it's easy for me to say that because I just get

by with my parents and even though I get hurt by particularly my

dad's insanity (because he is so unpredictable) he never solicits

any kind of relationship with me because he doesn't like me and he's

admitted to such after I backed him into a corner about it. My

mother just plays both ends to the middle depending on who is in the

room. I don't see any potential there at all for any real

relationship, there never has been and there never will be so I have

maybe less to lose than you do. Maybe that is the reason I can live

here because I know there isn't any hope.

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You can't control what other people think.

Your cousin shouldn't be involved in this -- it's their choice

whether they do or not, but I would encourage them to leave that

alone and just have their engagement party.

you can't control what the rest of your family does -- and if

they're on board with this kind of foolishness, you don't have a

choice but to let them go.

Sorry you feel at such a loss -- You can't contol the actions of

others, only conduct yourself with respect and integrity.

This is like two divorced people messing up their child's wedding

because they can't put their differences aside long enough. It's

self indulgent behavior -- it has nothing to do with you.

If your cousin drops you because they want to join the drama, let

them go. If your aunt wants to join this drama, let her go. If

your uncle wants to jump in, let him go.....etc.....etc....

Your other choice is to sell your soul in some vain attempt to

pretend that all of this hasn't happened. And in the end, you

definitely wouldn't have the " closeness " you appear to have.

What they've done is cruel and manipulative. You can't control it.

Nurture relationships with people who treat you with respect --

" family " is not a license to mistreat someone. They have chosen

this game, not you. It's not your fault if a few relationships fall

apart because of it. And I seriously doubt that EVERY SINGLE

relative will run off to indulge your parents.

Live your own life.

-Kyla

>

> May,

> Thanks for your honesty. In no way did i take offense to anything

you said. I appreciate having a source where i can go and get

unbiased, outside opinions. I am at such a loss of what to do. My

cousin is getting involved, and I know she is just trying to help,

but i feel it is impossible to even try to explain to someone in her

position what i am going through, i feel they just would not get

it. I do not want to have to cut off my whole family cause of my

parents, but i feel like my parents are pushing me into that corner

where i may have to make that choice. I honestly do not know how a

parent could treat their child this way, putting aside the emails

and all, how could you sell your child out so he would miss his

grandmothers bday? I am at a complete loss as to how to handle

this. I feel like when i left, i had a pretty good handle on this

situation, i get back, and it has all gone to shit.

>

> Thank you May for your words, and trust me, witch is nice compared

to some of the things i have called my mom :)

>

>

>

> Re: Returning home

>

>

> Tony,

>

> This might sound offensive, but she sounds like a real

witch. " What

> feelings are stirred up now? " ??????? After she just defamed you

to

> your entire family and both of them are playing the martyr, while

> you were off on vacation having a pleasant time and didn't expect

to

> return home to chaos. I don't mean to be blunt and offend you, I

> just want to give you an outside reaction because it seems to be

> that you are being manipulated with NO regard for your feelings at

> all. Both parents are saying and doing incredibly hurtful things

to

> you, and then turning around and acting like YOU hurt THEM. And of

> course they aren't lying or twisting the facts, because they are

> your parents and they wouldn't do that, right??? (not). Here is

> something to chew on: you can still love them even if they are

> manipulative liars. You don't have to like their behavior but you

> can still love them. What I see you doing is trying to make them

> into something they are not, and pretend they are not what they

are,

> to meet some conditions you have for relationship with them. They

> aren't the people you want to be, they are behaving TERRIBLY. I

> think you need reinforcements, like a therapist who knows bpd

> because you are being double-teamed horribly, and to make matters

> worse they've brought the whole family on board now. It's okay to

> come here and ask for advice as many times as you need to, as well

> as support, and it's perfectly okay to NOT know how to handle

this,

> and to not address it, and like others have advised, to attend the

> parties if you want without regard to their demands.

>

> When I read her letter I get the image of an evil queen in a

castle

> like in Snow White, looking at her reflection in the mirror and

> smiling at her cleverness. Just by the tone of your response it's

> obvious she has you confused and questioning reality again, which

is

> where she wants you. I won't take it personally if you feel this

> description is too harsh, I just want you to see how she is coming

> off to a person outside the situation.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Just my two cents' worth (when has that ever stopped me? lol), but I

think that option is, as you're figuring out, distasteful. It lacks

dignity and makes you look the same as them.

This is between you and your parents -- I wouldn't spread this dirty

laundry around. (And I wouldn't belabor it too long with your

parents, either!) It just looks like you're a child pleading with

everyone to believe you. Maturity is when we don't need to live by

committee or popularity contests -- we just make our decisions, mark

our boundaries, and people who respect you will respect your

choices. You're finally grown up when you live according to the

dictates of your own household --

-kyla

> > >

> > > Well,

> > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2 weeks, and

> > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well, prior

to

> > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up telling

my

> > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to talk

> > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > to them before i left.

> > >

> > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt (dad's

> > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it was very

> > important. When i called, she told me that they were having a

80th

> > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that she

felt

> > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she said that

> my

> > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is more

> > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where this is

> > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently and

> > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt want a

> > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family get

> > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much discussion

with

> > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > >

> > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He said

it

> > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but he

would

> > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and getting

> > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt go to

> my

> > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying he

> would

> > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants us to

> > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last time we

> > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept getting

> upset

> > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when it was

my

> > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for barging

into

> > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if i want

> to

> > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for me to

> make

> > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would do

> > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > >

> > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for. now i

> get

> > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly following it

was

> > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that the

> family

> > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but since my

> dad

> > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something out, so

> > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will go

from

> 7-

> > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so ridiculous,

> and

> > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> wednesday

> > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just dont know

> > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track trying to

get

> > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came crashing. i

> > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am rewarding

her.

> > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit and

> > keeping me from seeing my

> > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > suggestions?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > T

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

OH MY GOODNESS -- this is beyond ridiculous! Your cousin is

insulting you by these " shifts " !!

I would answer that you " don't want them involved in this fray --

that you'd like to come to the party as an invited guest and not for

a " shift " to avoid anyone else. That you have faith that everyone

can behave themselves long enough to honor cousin's upcoming

wedding. Thanks for the recommendation for a therapist, but I am

taking care of things on my end. You have enough on your plate, you

don't need this, too. Let us work it out among ourselves. "

When I read that e-mail from your cousin, I thought it was very

demeaning. Assure him/her that you don't wish them to get involved,

and you look forward to seeing them at the party, and you'd rather

not do shifts.

Honestly, I wouldn't put up with this for anything. Why would you

let people demean you this way?

-Kyla

> > > > >

> > > > > Well,

> > > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2 weeks,

and

> > > > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well,

prior to

> > > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up

telling my

> > > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to talk

> > > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > > > to them before i left.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt

(dad's

> > > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it was

very

> > > > important. When i called, she told me that they were having

a 80th

> > > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that

she felt

> > > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she said

that

> > > my

> > > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is

more

> > > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where

this is

> > > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently

and

> > > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt

want a

> > > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family get

> > > > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much discussion

with

> > > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > > >

> > > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He

said it

> > > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but he

would

> > > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

getting

> > > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt

go to

> > > my

> > > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying he

> > > would

> > > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants us

to

> > > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last

time we

> > > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept getting

> > > upset

> > > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when it

was my

> > > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for

barging into

> > > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if i

want

> > > to

> > > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for me

to

> > > make

> > > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would do

> > > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > > >

> > > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for.

now i

> > > get

> > > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly following

it was

> > > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that the

> > > family

> > > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but since

my

> > > dad

> > > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something

out, so

> > > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will go

from

> > > 7-

> > > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so

ridiculous,

> > > and

> > > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > > wednesday

> > > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just dont

know

> > > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track trying

to get

> > > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came

crashing. i

> > > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am rewarding

her.

> > > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit

and

> > > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > > suggestions?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > T

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Guest guest

Tony -- I agree with Jane -- It's PERFECT -- and I would send it --

then, going forward, I would STOP explaining myself.

If your mother were to respond with more noise, just send the SAME

LETTER.

THAT LETTER IS FANTASTIC. I say " SEND IT! "

-Kyla

> > > >

> > > > Well,

> > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2 weeks, and

> > > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well,

prior to

> > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up telling

my

> > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to talk

> > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > > to them before i left.

> > > >

> > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt

(dad's

> > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it was

very

> > > important. When i called, she told me that they were having a

80th

> > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that she

felt

> > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she said

that

> > my

> > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is more

> > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where this

is

> > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently and

> > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt want a

> > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family get

> > > togethers, he wants more then that.. So after much discussion

with

> > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > >

> > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He

said it

> > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but he

would

> > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

getting

> > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt go

to

> > my

> > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying he

> > would

> > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants us to

> > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last time

we

> > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept getting

> > upset

> > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when it

was my

> > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for barging

into

> > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if i

want

> > to

> > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for me to

> > make

> > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would do

> > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > >

> > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for. now i

> > get

> > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly following it

was

> > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that the

> > family

> > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but since my

> > dad

> > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something out,

so

> > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will go

from

> > 7-

> > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so ridiculous,

> > and

> > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > wednesday

> > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just dont

know

> > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track trying to

get

> > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came crashing.

i

> > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am rewarding

her.

> > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit and

> > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > grandma on her 80th bday.. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > suggestions?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks,

> > > > T

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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Guest guest

I agree -- the " shifts " are a clever way of putting their dirty

laundry for everyone to see.

Tony is either an invited guest, or he's not. I wouldn't consent to

being demoted to a " shift guest " . I would politely decline.

-Kyla

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > > > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2

weeks, and

> > > > > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well,

prior to

> > > > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up

telling my

> > > > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to

talk

> > > > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > > > > to them before i left.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt

(dad's

> > > > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it

was very

> > > > > important. When i called, she told me that they were

having a 80th

> > > > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that

she felt

> > > > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she

said that

> > > > my

> > > > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is

more

> > > > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where

this is

> > > > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently

and

> > > > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt

want a

> > > > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family

get

> > > > > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much

discussion with

> > > > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He

said it

> > > > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but

he would

> > > > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

getting

> > > > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt

go to

> > > > my

> > > > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying

he

> > > > would

> > > > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants

us to

> > > > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last

time we

> > > > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > > > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept

getting

> > > > upset

> > > > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when

it was my

> > > > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for

barging into

> > > > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if

i want

> > > > to

> > > > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for

me to

> > > > make

> > > > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would

do

> > > > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for.

now i

> > > > get

> > > > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly

following it was

> > > > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that

the

> > > > family

> > > > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but

since my

> > > > dad

> > > > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something

out, so

> > > > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will

go from

> > > > 7-

> > > > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so

ridiculous,

> > > > and

> > > > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > > > wednesday

> > > > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just

dont know

> > > > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track

trying to get

> > > > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came

crashing. i

> > > > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > > > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am

rewarding her.

> > > > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit

and

> > > > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > T

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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Guest guest

I feel sorry for his cousin -- this has already overshadowed the

reason for the party: her happiness at being engaged. She's been

shoved aside, and the greater drama will take center stage --

especially if there are shifts. Reminds me of when I was newly

engaged and my dad told me to " keep it to yourself " and not announce

it because it would " hurt your mother " . I was shoved out of the

spotlight, just like tony's cousin.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > > > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2

weeks,

> and

> > > > > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well,

> prior to

> > > > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up

> telling my

> > > > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to

talk

> > > > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

> goodbye

> > > > > to them before i left.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt

> (dad's

> > > > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it

was

> very

> > > > > important.. When i called, she told me that they were

having

> a 80th

> > > > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that

> she felt

> > > > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she

said

> that

> > > > my

> > > > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is

> more

> > > > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where

> this is

> > > > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently

> and

> > > > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt

> want a

> > > > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family

get

> > > > > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much

discussion

> with

> > > > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He

> said it

> > > > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but

he

> would

> > > > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

> getting

> > > > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt

> go to

> > > > my

> > > > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying

he

> > > > would

> > > > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants

us

> to

> > > > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last

> time we

> > > > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

> with " forgetting "

> > > > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept

getting

> > > > upset

> > > > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when

it

> was my

> > > > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for

> barging into

> > > > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if

i

> want

> > > > to

> > > > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for

me

> to

> > > > make

> > > > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would

do

> > > > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for.

> now i

> > > > get

> > > > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly

following

> it was

> > > > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that

the

> > > > family

> > > > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but

since

> my

> > > > dad

> > > > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something

> out, so

> > > > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will

go

> from

> > > > 7-

> > > > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so

> ridiculous,

> > > > and

> > > > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > > > wednesday

> > > > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just

dont

> know

> > > > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track

trying

> to get

> > > > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came

> crashing. i

> > > > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

> actual

> > > > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am

rewarding

> her.

> > > > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit

> and

> > > > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > T

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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Guest guest

Oh -- you're right -- I hadn't considered that!

Then I would be politely brief -- say you're handling it and don't

think it's a good idea for others to get involved. Then I'd clam up!

I liked the letter that Lilly Blue wrote -- that this issue has its

own timetable, that you're getting help (and don't provide details

on that!) and that you appreciate her concern but she doesn't need

to get involved.

I know there are people who have no clue about what we deal with as

regards our BPD family members, and they think they can fix

everything -- but what they don't understand is your parents are

bullying you and putting the tightest squeeze play on you that they

possibly can, in an effort to get you to cede to their demands.

Giving in to " make peace " would be like handing a 2 year old a

cookie after their temper tantrum: all it does it teach them that

the temper tantrum delivers the goods.

Ride this out -- no matter how long it takes, so your parents will

realize these blackmail games don't work on you. Outlast them.

-Kyla

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it

was

> > > > > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2

> weeks,

> > and

> > > > > > toured practically the whole country, it was great.

Well,

> > prior to

> > > > > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up

> > telling my

> > > > > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to

> talk

> > > > > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and

said

> > goodbye

> > > > > > to them before i left.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my

Aunt

> > (dad's

> > > > > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it

> was

> > very

> > > > > > important.. When i called, she told me that they were

> having

> > a 80th

> > > > > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and

that

> > she felt

> > > > > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she

> said

> > that

> > > > > my

> > > > > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it

is

> > more

> > > > > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where

> > this is

> > > > > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking

recently

> > and

> > > > > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt

> > want a

> > > > > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at

family

> get

> > > > > > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much

> discussion

> > with

> > > > > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was?

He

> > said it

> > > > > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > > > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but

> he

> > would

> > > > > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

> > getting

> > > > > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he

wouldnt

> > go to

> > > > > my

> > > > > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started

saying

> he

> > > > > would

> > > > > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants

> us

> > to

> > > > > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last

> > time we

> > > > > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

> > with " forgetting "

> > > > > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept

> getting

> > > > > upset

> > > > > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when

> it

> > was my

> > > > > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for

> > barging into

> > > > > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked

if

> i

> > want

> > > > > to

> > > > > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything

for

> me

> > to

> > > > > make

> > > > > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he

would

> do

> > > > > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful

for.

> > now i

> > > > > get

> > > > > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly

> following

> > it was

> > > > > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us

that

> the

> > > > > family

> > > > > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but

> since

> > my

> > > > > dad

> > > > > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something

> > out, so

> > > > > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad

will

> go

> > from

> > > > > 7-

> > > > > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so

> > ridiculous,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > > > > wednesday

> > > > > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just

> dont

> > know

> > > > > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track

> trying

> > to get

> > > > > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came

> > crashing. i

> > > > > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she

did

> > actual

> > > > > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am

> rewarding

> > her.

> > > > > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this

shit

> > and

> > > > > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > > > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > T

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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Guest guest

True, but the bride has to know it's going on, and it's still

unfortunate that your parents have commandeered her party.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well,

> > > > > > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it

was

> > > > > > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2

> weeks,

> > and

> > > > > > toured practically the whole country, it was great.

Well,

> > prior to

> > > > > > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up

> > telling my

> > > > > > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to

> talk

> > > > > > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and

said

> > goodbye

> > > > > > to them before i left.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my

Aunt

> > (dad's

> > > > > > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it

> was

> > very

> > > > > > important.. When i called, she told me that they were

> having

> > a 80th

> > > > > > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and

that

> > she felt

> > > > > > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she

> said

> > that

> > > > > my

> > > > > > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it

is

> > more

> > > > > > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where

> > this is

> > > > > > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking

recently

> > and

> > > > > > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt

> > want a

> > > > > > relationship with his son that he only sees him at

family

> get

> > > > > > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much

> discussion

> > with

> > > > > > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was?

He

> > said it

> > > > > > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > > > > > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but

> he

> > would

> > > > > > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and

> > getting

> > > > > > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he

wouldnt

> > go to

> > > > > my

> > > > > > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started

saying

> he

> > > > > would

> > > > > > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants

> us

> > to

> > > > > > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last

> > time we

> > > > > > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

> > with " forgetting "

> > > > > > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept

> getting

> > > > > upset

> > > > > > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when

> it

> > was my

> > > > > > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for

> > barging into

> > > > > > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked

if

> i

> > want

> > > > > to

> > > > > > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything

for

> me

> > to

> > > > > make

> > > > > > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > > > > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he

would

> do

> > > > > > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful

for.

> > now i

> > > > > get

> > > > > > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly

> following

> > it was

> > > > > > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us

that

> the

> > > > > family

> > > > > > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but

> since

> > my

> > > > > dad

> > > > > > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something

> > out, so

> > > > > > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad

will

> go

> > from

> > > > > 7-

> > > > > > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so

> > ridiculous,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> > > > > wednesday

> > > > > > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just

> dont

> > know

> > > > > > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track

> trying

> > to get

> > > > > > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came

> > crashing. i

> > > > > > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she

did

> > actual

> > > > > > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am

> rewarding

> > her.

> > > > > > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this

shit

> > and

> > > > > > keeping me from seeing my

> > > > > > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > > > > > suggestions?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks,

> > > > > > > T

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

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Guest guest

tony: I'm not clear what e-mail your mom's responding to, but she's

continuing to engage you, which is what she wants. It's almost like

she thinks she can lead you inside by holding out a cookie --

Depending on what e-mail she's responding to, I would leave it at

this -- it's noise. BPD noise. (That " perhaps you misunderstood "

is a CLASSIC BPD gaslighting response!)

I'd send that long, well thought out e-mail in response to this -- I

wouldn't change a thing.

Then, I wouldn't respond any more. She's trying to make you explain

yourself -- as if she's an authority over you, and she's not.

That's why I wanted to clarify what she's responding to -- if you

haven't sent that good, long e-mail, send it and be done with this.

If she keeps at it, send a brief, " I've explained where I stand on

this. I can't say any more. "

Quit engaging -- draw your boundaries then clam up. As long as

she's engaging you, her adrenaline's up and the game is on! They

LIVE for the game! Walk away after you make your opinions clear.

Adults don't have to overexplain their position. Your mother's

trying to make you a child again.

Don't focus on what she wrote -- it's just noise. Take a breath and

don't let her pull your strings. State your case and then pull

back. Your words will have more effect if you keep the explanations

to a minimum.

And that " perhaps you misunderstood " is total crap. You aren't

misunderstanding ANYTHING. Being disinvited to your grandmother's

birthday doesn't leave much to be misunderstood -- the message was

loud and clear: emotional blackmail.

Stop tangling with her. Pull back after making your position clear.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Well,

> > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2 weeks, and

> > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well, prior

to

> > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up telling

my

> > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to talk

> > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > to them before i left.

> > >

> > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt (dad's

> > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it was very

> > important. When i called, she told me that they were having a

80th

> > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that she

felt

> > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she said that

> my

> > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is more

> > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where this is

> > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently and

> > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt want a

> > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family get

> > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much discussion

with

> > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > >

> > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He said

it

> > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but he

would

> > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and getting

> > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt go to

> my

> > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying he

> would

> > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants us to

> > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last time we

> > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept getting

> upset

> > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when it was

my

> > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for barging

into

> > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if i want

> to

> > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for me to

> make

> > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would do

> > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > >

> > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for. now i

> get

> > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly following it

was

> > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that the

> family

> > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but since my

> dad

> > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something out, so

> > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will go

from

> 7-

> > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so ridiculous,

> and

> > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> wednesday

> > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just dont know

> > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track trying to

get

> > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came crashing. i

> > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am rewarding

her.

> > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit and

> > keeping me from seeing my

> > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > suggestions?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > T

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

" I guess you are forcing us to

go to Christie’s in split shifts, "

Absolute INSULT! Projection! This mess was brought about by THEM

and look how she's putting it on you!

Then she contradicts herself by continuing to say " we would

appreciate it if you honor the families request to do so. "

Insane! She wants split shifts so she can play the victim!!!

Tony, you might need to perhaps get used to the idea that this woman

(and your father) are not good for your life. They don't respect

you, they play emotional hardball -- cruel emotional hardball.

They are cruel people, Tony. They're tearing you apart. That's

not " family closeness " -- it's abuse.

Back to the e-mail -- I'd seriously consider ignoring her point by

point insanity. You can respond with your own e-mail and then shut

the window on her for awhile. She's not mentally stable.

-Kyla

> > >

> > > Well,

> > > My wife and I just got back from our vacation, and it was

> > incredible. We were in Italy for a little more the 2 weeks, and

> > toured practically the whole country, it was great. Well, prior

to

> > leaving, i know i posted a few times, and i did end up telling

my

> > mom i didnt want to do therapy yet, but we continued to talk

> > periodically, as did my dad and I. I even called and said

goodbye

> > to them before i left.

> > >

> > > Well....when i got back, i got a voicemail from my Aunt (dad's

> > sister), telling me to call as soon as i could, that it was very

> > important. When i called, she told me that they were having a

80th

> > bday party for my grandma on sunday (yesterday), and that she

felt

> > it would be better if i didnt go. I asked why, and she said that

> my

> > dad says that if i go, he will not go, and they feel it is more

> > important to have my dad there then me. I ask here where this is

> > coming from, cause my dad and I have been talking recently and

> > things have been getting better. she says that he doesnt want a

> > relationship with his son that he only sees him at family get

> > togethers, he wants more then that. So after much discussion

with

> > my aunt, i finally got off the phone.

> > >

> > > I then called my dad and asked him what the deal was? He said

it

> > hurts him too much to see me and know that we dont have a

> > relationship, and that i could go to the bday party, but he

would

> > not go. I told him i thought we were making progress and getting

> > things back to normal, and he said we were, but he wouldnt go to

> my

> > grandmas thing without seeing me first. and started saying he

> would

> > be willing to see me today (saturday), and he just wants us to

> > forget everything that has happend. I told him that last time we

> > tried doing that, that they couldnt last a week

with " forgetting "

> > things, and started bringing things up again. He kept getting

> upset

> > and saying he doesnt understand why i am mad at him when it was

my

> > mom that did most of the wrongs. he did apologize for barging

into

> > my house, but that was it. He started crying and asked if i want

> to

> > have a relationship with him, and he will do anything for me to

> make

> > this work, and i told him i dont know,

> > > and got off the phone. i find it funny he said he would do

> > anything, except, let me go to my grandmas bday party.

> > >

> > > so i ended up not going, which i am very resentful for. now i

> get

> > an evite for my cousins engagement party. quickly following it

was

> > an email to me and my dad from my cousin, telling us that the

> family

> > thinks we both should be able to go to this party, but since my

> dad

> > wont be there when i am there, we need to work something out, so

> > they want to split the time up between us, so my dad will go

from

> 7-

> > 8:30, and we will go 8:30 to 10. I think this is so ridiculous,

> and

> > i dont know what to do. I already agreed to see my mom on

> wednesday

> > to show her pictures, which i am nervous about. i just dont know

> > how to handle this anymore. I was on the right track trying to

get

> > things back to normal, and for no reason it all came crashing. i

> > guess the reason i am meeting with my mom is cause she did

actual

> > write me an apology for the email finally, so i am rewarding

her.

> > and i want to just punish my dad now for pulling this shit and

> > keeping me from seeing my

> > > grandma on her 80th bday. anyone have any thoughts or

> > suggestions?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > T

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she may mean

well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies, being a

family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side, although

there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are a bit

more capable of going out and having their own lives and being happy

and not miserable or feeding off of each other's misery...many of

them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other and

truly glad for each other when something good happens) ...sorry for

the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as far as

the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal side is

there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but only

behind the backs of people although you can always 'read' the energy

in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on that

side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives, and

feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high' off of

drama that other family members may have, if only because it makes

them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me to see

these people in their true light when it finally became clear to me

what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less than a year

younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I have been

the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was very

rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in on the

family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not defend me

but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed me, which

really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense (when

she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about herself that

any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-self-

esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

carefully around people like this in your family because they are

always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to put

themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to see that

is going on.

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Guest guest

Very good point -- this cousin may be seeing this as her turn to be

the hero, thereby feeding her own ego. She could be a " drama

junkie " -- they do like to feed off family drama. If you step back

and notice, the wise ones know to stay out of the drama, but like

the saying goes " There's a clown in every classroom " , every family

(especially BPD and NPD families) has its drama junkie(s).

In my family, there was a HUGE drama over my grandmother's estate --

and plenty more around my grandmother's memorial service, etc. I

steered CLEAR of all of it.

Tony, take a moment to notice the people who have inserted

themselves into this drama -- and yes, they did it VOLUNTARILY:

Your aunt, your cousin,......who else?

Remember, they're getting a " payoff " when they get involved in this

drama, too. Don't think their motives are all pure -- in fact,

their motives are probably selfish. Your aunt must have a part of

her that delights in delivering bad news. After all, what person

with a good heart on this earth would conspire to deliver a " dis-

invitation " to her nephew concerning his grandmother's 80th birthday

celebration? Your aunt did a mean thing -- and you can't put that

on your dad. It was her choice to get involved.

Drama junkies are the lifeblood of this type of hurt. They keep

this commerce of negativity and abuse going strong.

If it had been me, and my brother had asked me to disinvite his son,

I would have told him " No way. How dare you hijack mom's party! "

See the difference? Moral of the story: watch out for drama

junkies. They're co-conspirators.

-Kyla

>

> I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she may

mean

> well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies, being

a

> family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side, although

> there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are a bit

> more capable of going out and having their own lives and being

happy

> and not miserable or feeding off of each other's misery...many of

> them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other and

> truly glad for each other when something good happens) ...sorry

for

> the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as far

as

> the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal side

is

> there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but only

> behind the backs of people although you can always 'read' the

energy

> in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on that

> side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives, and

> feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high' off

of

> drama that other family members may have, if only because it makes

> them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me to see

> these people in their true light when it finally became clear to

me

> what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less than a

year

> younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I have

been

> the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was very

> rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in on

the

> family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not defend

me

> but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed me,

which

> really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense (when

> she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about herself

that

> any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-self-

> esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> carefully around people like this in your family because they are

> always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to put

> themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to see that

> is going on.

>

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Guest guest

I wonder what would have happened if, during the aunt's dis-inviting

phone call to tony, if he would have taken that moment to stop and

focus on HER and said " Why Auntie, I'm surprised you're making this

call. I'm hurt you'd be a part of this. This isn't like you. "

Co-conspirators like to sweep themselves along in the drama, hoping

the spotlight won't be turned on their role. It's usually effective

to take a moment and single them out personally. They truly hope

that with all the drama and swept-up emotion, they won't be

noticed. I like to take a moment to do just that.

I had a former friend who was jealous of everything I had and did,

and she would always find a way to tell me some nugget of negative

gossip that " someone else " said about me. Finally, I looked her

square in the eye and said " Well I'm really surprised that you

carefully scooped it all up and brought it all back to me -- you

must have wanted to hurt me. I'm sure Jane didn't mean for me to

hear it -- so why would you bring it to me? " (paraphrasing)

That stopped her cold. She was counting on me being mad at Jane,

the originator of the gossip. Instead, I questioned my " friend " on

why she kept bringing me hurtful gossip.

I made my point with her. Also, with time, I realized she was no

friend, and I dropped her.

-Kyla

> >

> > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she may

> mean

> > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

being

> a

> > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

although

> > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are a

bit

> > more capable of going out and having their own lives and being

> happy

> > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's misery...many

of

> > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other and

> > truly glad for each other when something good happens) ...sorry

> for

> > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as far

> as

> > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal side

> is

> > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but only

> > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read' the

> energy

> > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

that

> > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives, and

> > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high' off

> of

> > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

makes

> > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me to

see

> > these people in their true light when it finally became clear to

> me

> > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less than a

> year

> > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I have

> been

> > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was very

> > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in on

> the

> > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

defend

> me

> > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed me,

> which

> > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

(when

> > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about herself

> that

> > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

self-

> > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > carefully around people like this in your family because they

are

> > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to put

> > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to see

that

> > is going on.

> >

>

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Guest guest

My BPD mom is a prime example: HUGE drama junkie. Rushes to

hospital bedsides (missed my college graduation to do that), jumps

right in to family squabbles, sees conspiracies everywhere....

Even her choice of reading material -- true crime books -- shows her

penchant for dark drama.

-Kyla

> >

> > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she may

> mean

> > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

being

> a

> > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

although

> > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are a

bit

> > more capable of going out and having their own lives and being

> happy

> > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's misery...many

of

> > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other and

> > truly glad for each other when something good happens) ...sorry

> for

> > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as far

> as

> > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal side

> is

> > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but only

> > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read' the

> energy

> > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

that

> > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives, and

> > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high' off

> of

> > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

makes

> > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me to

see

> > these people in their true light when it finally became clear to

> me

> > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less than a

> year

> > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I have

> been

> > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was very

> > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in on

> the

> > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

defend

> me

> > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed me,

> which

> > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

(when

> > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about herself

> that

> > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

self-

> > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > carefully around people like this in your family because they

are

> > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to put

> > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to see

that

> > is going on.

> >

>

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Guest guest

Yes, I'd drop my cousin from any further discussion on this -- she

gave the usual " I'm just trying to be a good host, etc. " when, in

actuality, she's doing just what everybody here (including you)

suspects she's doing: getting involved for her own reasons.

Good e-mail to her -- I wouldn't address it any more. And, on the

day of the party, since the party will already be planned and she

will have other things to do, you don't have to follow her dictates

of appearing in your assigned shift -- I would use that time to make

a statement: show up outside the bounds of your shift!

If anyone is rude enough to bring it up, just say " I never agreed to

show up in a shift -- I didn't agree with that idea. Aren't we here

to honor ? "

Yep, your cousin's a drama junkie. I'd ignore her reply. Your e-

mail to her was great. Let it be your stand. Good job.

Go ahead and join the " Proud Moment " thread anytime you like --

because you keep triumphing over your own panicked e-mails. GOOD

FOR YOU!

-Kyla

> > >

> > > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she may

> > mean

> > > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

> being

> > a

> > > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

> although

> > > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are a

> bit

> > > more capable of going out and having their own lives and being

> > happy

> > > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's misery...many

> of

> > > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other

and

> > > truly glad for each other when something good

happens) ...sorry

> > for

> > > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as

far

> > as

> > > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal

side

> > is

> > > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but only

> > > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read' the

> > energy

> > > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

> that

> > > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives,

and

> > > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high'

off

> > of

> > > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

> makes

> > > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me to

> see

> > > these people in their true light when it finally became clear

to

> > me

> > > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less than

a

> > year

> > > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I

have

> > been

> > > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was very

> > > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in

on

> > the

> > > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

> defend

> > me

> > > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed me,

> > which

> > > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

> (when

> > > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about herself

> > that

> > > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

> self-

> > > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > > carefully around people like this in your family because they

> are

> > > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to

put

> > > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to see

> that

> > > is going on.

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Or, you could respond with a brief, " Thanks, I'd rather handle this

between me and my parents. " A subtle message that she's in someone

else's business. She apparently thinks her status as " hostess "

gives her some kind of free pass into all the guests' squabbles.

-K

> > > >

> > > > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she

may

> > > mean

> > > > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

> > being

> > > a

> > > > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

> > although

> > > > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are

a

> > bit

> > > > more capable of going out and having their own lives and

being

> > > happy

> > > > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's

misery...many

> > of

> > > > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other

> and

> > > > truly glad for each other when something good

> happens) ...sorry

> > > for

> > > > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as

> far

> > > as

> > > > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal

> side

> > > is

> > > > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but

only

> > > > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read'

the

> > > energy

> > > > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

> > that

> > > > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives,

> and

> > > > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high'

> off

> > > of

> > > > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

> > makes

> > > > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me

to

> > see

> > > > these people in their true light when it finally became

clear

> to

> > > me

> > > > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less

than

> a

> > > year

> > > > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I

> have

> > > been

> > > > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was

very

> > > > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in

> on

> > > the

> > > > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

> > defend

> > > me

> > > > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed

me,

> > > which

> > > > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > > > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

> > (when

> > > > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about

herself

> > > that

> > > > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

> > self-

> > > > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > > > carefully around people like this in your family because

they

> > are

> > > > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to

> put

> > > > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to

see

> > that

> > > > is going on.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Tony -- having been through this myself, it is very gratifying to

reach out and pull someone else out of the muck.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment. Life is too short to be

living the tortures of someone else's dysfunction. Or to worry

constantly about filling the bottomless emotional needs of

emotionally damaged people.

If you conquer this, the way many of us have, you will deal with the

emotional unstables of the world that much better. You'll have one

of the best tools life can give you. Because, trust me, they walk

among us every day. Might as well strengthen yourself now, with the

toughest of them all: emotionally demanding parents and family.

{hugs}

Kyla

> > > >

> > > > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she

may

> > > mean

> > > > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

> > being

> > > a

> > > > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

> > although

> > > > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are

a

> > bit

> > > > more capable of going out and having their own lives and

being

> > > happy

> > > > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's

misery...many

> > of

> > > > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other

> and

> > > > truly glad for each other when something good

> happens) ...sorry

> > > for

> > > > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as

> far

> > > as

> > > > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal

> side

> > > is

> > > > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but

only

> > > > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read'

the

> > > energy

> > > > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

> > that

> > > > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives,

> and

> > > > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high'

> off

> > > of

> > > > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

> > makes

> > > > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me

to

> > see

> > > > these people in their true light when it finally became

clear

> to

> > > me

> > > > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less

than

> a

> > > year

> > > > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I

> have

> > > been

> > > > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was

very

> > > > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in

> on

> > > the

> > > > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

> > defend

> > > me

> > > > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed

me,

> > > which

> > > > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > > > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

> > (when

> > > > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about

herself

> > > that

> > > > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

> > self-

> > > > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > > > carefully around people like this in your family because

they

> > are

> > > > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to

> put

> > > > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to

see

> > that

> > > > is going on.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

you're welcome -- I've learned from this, too! You've obviously

touched a nerve with this thread!

{hugs}

Kyla

> > > >

> > > > I am suspicious of the motives of the cousin, although she

may

> > > mean

> > > > well to some extent my own family is full of drama junkies,

> > being

> > > a

> > > > family (well at least on my dad's side, my mother's side,

> > although

> > > > there are definitely issues, is populated by people who are

a

> > bit

> > > > more capable of going out and having their own lives and

being

> > > happy

> > > > and not miserable or feeding off of each other's

misery...many

> > of

> > > > them seem genuinely close and happy to be around each other

> and

> > > > truly glad for each other when something good

> happens) ...sorry

> > > for

> > > > the digression; being a family that spawned bpd/npd types as

> far

> > > as

> > > > the eyes could see. So anyway, what happens on the paternal

> side

> > > is

> > > > there is alot of back-stabbing and character defaming but

only

> > > > behind the backs of people although you can always 'read'

the

> > > energy

> > > > in the room and know you have been talked about. Everyone on

> > that

> > > > side of the family is so truly miserable in their own lives,

> and

> > > > feels so bad about themselves, that they get a bit of 'high'

> off

> > > of

> > > > drama that other family members may have, if only because it

> > makes

> > > > them feel better about themselves. It was very hard for me

to

> > see

> > > > these people in their true light when it finally became

clear

> to

> > > me

> > > > what was going on. One cousin in particular that is less

than

> a

> > > year

> > > > younger than me that I was close to growing up, and whom I

> have

> > > been

> > > > the ONLY defender of throughout her adolescence which was

very

> > > > rocky, and the only one who supported her many times, got in

> on

> > > the

> > > > family drama repeatedly and I realize now did not only not

> > defend

> > > me

> > > > but sided with the parents, aunts, and uncles and betrayed

me,

> > > which

> > > > really hurt considering the amount of times I had shut down

> > > > discussions about her behavior by speaking up in her defense

> > (when

> > > > she wasn't in the room). I know she feels so bad about

herself

> > > that

> > > > any family drama like this is a distraction from her own low-

> > self-

> > > > esteem and problem relationships and you have to tread very

> > > > carefully around people like this in your family because

they

> > are

> > > > always willing to make things worse for you in an attempt to

> put

> > > > themselves in a better light. Sometimes it's just hard to

see

> > that

> > > > is going on.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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