Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Does anyone know if the yogurt bread in Nourishing Traditions is gluten free? What about sourdough? What makes a bread gluten free? My son is going on a gluten free diet as recommended in a book on psoriasis. Parashis artpages@... zine: artpagesonline.com portfolio: http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 , Gluten free is defined by the absence of gluten. This would mean not using wheat, barley, rye and other wheat relatives. Rice and potatos are both gluten free, as is tapioca, and all three are used in GF cooking fairly regularly. Only trouble is the textures of gluten free breads really just arn't the same as gluten breads, and as a result they can't be kneaded (they're more like big square cakes). Gluten can be degraded through sourdough fermentation, but will never be completely removed. Some people who are gluten sensitive do fine with sourdough. Rye and barley have less gluten than wheat, so a rye sourdough would have even less gluten than a wheat sourdough. After being GF myself, I can say I don't think it is the best idea to go completely gluten free unless you're looking at possible celiac disease. Have you tried going wheat-free first? -Lana > > What makes a bread gluten free? > > My son is going on a gluten free diet as recommended in a book on > psoriasis. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Thanks so much for the explanation. It's my son who is going to try this. I wanted to know what to suggest to him - how to make the bread. Gluten free bread at Whole Foods always had soy or something that made it bad so wanted to make my own. Question: why do you think it not a good idea to go coompletely gluten free? On Jun 21, 2007, at 9:19 AM, Lana Gibbons wrote: > After being GF myself, I can say I don't think it is the best idea to > go > completely gluten free unless you're looking at possible celiac > disease. > Have you tried going wheat-free first? Parashis artpages@... zine: artpagesonline.com portfolio: http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 > Spelt and Kamut are lower in gluten than wheat, rye, oats. Corn is > also high gluten. Millet, amaranth, quinoa, buckwheat are gluten free > as they are not actual grains. > Unless I missed something somewhere, corn doesn't contain gluten. Also, I would think oats are pretty low in gluten since the oats themselves are gluten-free, but are contaminated with gluten due to their processing on equipment shared with wheat (unless you buy certified gluten-free oats). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 NT, page 56... ........smaller salivary glands and pancreas of the Westerner.....difficult to digest gluten-containing grains such as wheat, corn, oats, rye and barley. NT, page 453... ....Grains fall into two categories. Those containing gluten, such as oats, rye, barley, wheat; buckwheat, rice and millet do not contain gluten. > > Unless I missed something somewhere, corn doesn't contain gluten. > Also, I would think oats are pretty low in gluten since the oats > themselves are gluten-free, but are contaminated with gluten due to > their processing on equipment shared with wheat (unless you buy > certified gluten-free oats). > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 They need to correct that then, because it's wrong. Neither corn nor oats contain gluten (although oats are contaminated with gluten). Corn is difficult to digest, so maybe that's what they were trying to say. I've also read various places that buckwheat contains gluten, but that's wrong, too, it doesn't. > > > > > Unless I missed something somewhere, corn doesn't contain gluten. > > Also, I would think oats are pretty low in gluten since the oats > > themselves are gluten-free, but are contaminated with gluten due to > > their processing on equipment shared with wheat (unless you buy > > certified gluten-free oats). > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 tarinya2 wrote: > They need to correct that then, because it's wrong. Neither corn nor > oats contain gluten (although oats are contaminated with gluten). > Corn is difficult to digest, so maybe that's what they were trying to > say. I've also read various places that buckwheat contains gluten, but > that's wrong, too, it doesn't. > > In the celiac/gluten-sensitive enteropathy sense, corn and buckwheat are gluten free. In the technical sense, the term " gluten " refers to a protein fraction of a grain, therefore, all grains have gluten. The gluten that celiacs and other sensitive people react to is the secalin, hordein, and gliadin fractions of rye, barley, and wheat. The avenin in oats and the zein in corn, while technically " safe " for celiacs, seem to be a problem for some people. Hope that clarifies! -s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 --- tarinya2 wrote: > > They need to correct that then, because it's wrong. Neither corn > > nor oats contain gluten (although oats are contaminated with > > gluten). Corn is difficult to digest, so maybe that's what they > > were trying to say. I've also read various places that buckwheat > > contains gluten, but that's wrong, too, it doesn't. > --- Suzanne Noakes <snoakes@...> wrote: > In the celiac/gluten-sensitive enteropathy sense, corn and buckwheat > are gluten free. In the technical sense, the term " gluten " refers > to a protein fraction of a grain, therefore, all grains have gluten. > The gluten that celiacs and other sensitive people react to is the > secalin, hordein, and gliadin fractions of rye, barley, and wheat. > The avenin in oats and the zein in corn, while technically " safe " > for celiacs, seem to be a problem for some people. There is a thing called corn gluten meal, but according to anonymous authors in wikipedia, it does not contain gluten and likewise oats do not contain gluten but are often contaminated with it. 'Corn Gluten Meal' " A natural alternative for lawn and garden weed control " http://www.eartheasy.com/article_corn_gluten.htm Excerpt from 'Gluten': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten ====================================================== Gluten is found in some cereals (e.g., wheat, rye, barley) and their end products. Wheat grown in countries with extreme weather conditions, such as Canada, tends to have a higher gluten content than wheat grown in countries where the winter is milder. Wheat flour with a high gluten content is called " strong " or " hard " flour, and is used for breads, whereas flour with a lower gluten content is called " soft " flour, and is used for cakes. Other varieties of wheat such as kamut and spelt have slightly different forms of gluten. The gluten in spelt is more fragile than that found in wheat, and the bread dough can therefore collapse if overmixed.[5] Many people who are unable to digest gluten for non-celiac reasons are often able to digest these varieties. However, people suffering from coeliac disease are advised to avoid all forms of gluten. No gluten is contained in rice (even glutinous rice), wild rice, maize (corn), millets, sorghum, buckwheat, quinoa, or amaranth (the latter three being broad-leaf grains, and not true cereals). Oats and teff do not contain gluten, but are sometimes grown directly adjacent to, and/or milled on the same equipment as other grains that do contain gluten, and so are commonly contaminated. Oats lack many of the prolamines found in wheat; however, oats do contain avenin.[6] Avenin is a prolamine which is toxic to the intestinal submucosa in some individuals with coeliac disease.[7] Non-cereals, including legumes such as soybeans, seeds such as sunflower seeds, and pseudocereals such as quinoa, contain no gluten. It is fairly common to call corn storage proteins " corn gluten " , while corn contains prolamins, like wheat, it does not actually contain gluten [3]. ====================================================== Not that I trust these anonymous authors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 I've heard others call corn gluten-free. But how is corn gluten-free, when they sell corn gluten meal as an environmentally conscious weed killer? Desh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2007 Report Share Posted June 23, 2007 glu·ten (gltn)n. A mixture of insoluble plant proteins occurring in cereal grains, chiefly corn and wheat, used as an adhesive and as a flour substitute. Sources=Sources | 8;hm_med()The American Heritage® Stedman's Medical Dictionary, 2nd Edition Copyright © 2004 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. ______Although lower in gluten (all oats do contain some, even the gluten-free; they just have to test under so many parts per million to qualify as 'free'). They in themselves are a special problem for many with gluten intolerance. I am one of these people. So, from me to anyone who has this; do yourself a favor and avoid the oats for at least 6 months and then try and see if you can handle them. You can see examples of the intolerance in this study, which was conducted using the gluten free oats: Results Clinical and Histological Characteristics Nine adults with celiac disease who had a history of exposure to oats assessed to be free from contamination of other cereals were studied. In some cases they came for gastroduodenoscopy for clinical reasons, in other cases, they agreed to come for research reasons. The characteristics of the patients are given in Table 1. This case series is thus not a consecutive series of ordinary patients with celiac disease. Three of these patients (CD422, CD496, and CD507) were known to exhibit clinical and histopathological signs of oat intolerance. Patient CD422 developed villous atrophy and dermatitis while eating oats, and details of this patient are described elsewhere [15]. Patient CD496 was a 53-y-old woman who was evaluated for complicated celiac disease. Celiac disease was diagnosed in 1987 after 1 y with diarrhea and weight loss; a biopsy showed a Marsh 3C lesion with an intraepithelial lymphocyte (IEL) count of 58/100 enterocytes (range 53–69) (Figure 1). She responded well to a standard gluten-free diet. A control biopsy was not taken. In 2001, she started eating pure oats, but lost weight, going from 55 kg to 44 kg. While eating oats, a biopsy showed a Marsh 3A lesion with an IEL count of 54/100 enterocytes (range 43–62). The oats were discontinued, and she gradually recovered. Some months later, an intestinal biopsy demonstrated a Marsh 1 lesion with an IEL count of 46 (range 28–52). Clinically she is currently well. Patient CD507 was a 59-y-old woman who was also evaluated for complicated celiac disease. She probably had undiagnosed celiac disease since childhood and was diagnosed in 1990 after osteoporotic fractures. A biopsy showed total villous atrophy (Marsh 3C) with an IEL count of 50/100 enterocytes (range 44–54) (Figure 1). She responded well to a standard gluten-free diet. In 1999, a follow-up biopsy showed complete normalization of her mucosa (Marsh 0) with an IEL count of 26/100 enterocytes (range 24–32). In 2000, the patient started eating oats and developed bloating, abdominal pain and iron deficiency. She lost 2 kg in weight. In 2002, while still eating oats, a biopsy showed a Marsh 3A lesion with an IEL count of 50/100 enterocytes (range 38–58). She discontinued eating oats and improved clinically. A new biopsy later in 2002 showed improvement, with a Marsh 1 lesion with an IEL count 32/100 enterocytes (range 24–46). Surprisingly, in late 2003 she was diagnosed with an adenocarcinoma in the small intestine, which was removed surgically. tarinya2 <tarinya2@...> wrote: They need to correct that then, because it's wrong. Neither corn nor oats contain gluten (although oats are contaminated with gluten). Corn is difficult to digest, so maybe that's what they were trying to say. I've also read various places that buckwheat contains gluten, but that's wrong, too, it doesn't. > > NT, page 453... > > ...Grains fall into two categories. Those containing gluten, such as > oats, rye, barley, wheat; buckwheat, rice and millet do not contain > gluten. > .. --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 wrote: > Not that I trust these anonymous authors > > > Heh. Here's some more on the subject. <http://www.nutramed.com/celiac/gluten.htm> Looks like they are concurring that gluten is a generic term for the prolamines in grains. We already know that the prolamines in wheat, rye, and barley are the problem children: > Gluten is a general name used to describe proteins found in wheat and > other cereal grains. Any flour made from the starchy endosperm of > grains contains proteins that are potentially problematic to the grain > intolerant person. Gluten is a mixture of proteins classified into two > groups, the prolamines and the glutelins. The prolamine, gliadin, > seems to be a major problem in celiac disease; anti-gliadin antibodies > are found in the serum and in circulating immune complexes associated > with this disease. Wheat, barley, rye and oats have been excluded from > " gluten-free diets. " Most of evidence implicates wheat as a problem > food. Recent studies suggest that oats may not be as problematic as > wheat. Both the type and the amount of the gluten proteins decide the > kind of reaction that is likely to occur. It should be noted that > there is considerable variability in the protein content of various > foods made from cereal grains, and this variability is one of the many > reasons why food reactions are not consistent. > > *The Prolamine Fraction of Proteins in Grains* > > Grain > > > > Prolamine > > > > % Total Protein > > Wheat > > > > Gliadin > > > > 69 > > Rye > > > > Secalinin > > > > 30-50 > > Oats > > > > Avenin > > > > 16 > > Barley > > > > Hordein > > > > 46-52 > > Millet > > > > Panicin > > > > 40 > > Corn > > > > Zien > > > > 55 > > Rice > > > > Orzenin > > > > 5 > > Sorgum > > > > Kafirin > > > > 52 > > > --s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 On 6/21/07, Lana Gibbons <lana.m.gibbons@...> wrote: > After being GF myself, I can say I don't think it is the best idea to go > completely gluten free unless you're looking at possible celiac disease. > Have you tried going wheat-free first? > > -Lana > Hi Lana... Intriguing statement - " .....don't think it is the best idea to go completely gluten free.... " . Would love to hear your reasons for this, if you've time! Thanks. Sharon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Because elimination diets don't fix problems... The concept is to hopefully give the body enough of a break so that it can pool its resources to heal the issue (or in terms of autoimmunity, to reduce the load on the immune system). However, in my experience I have found that those who break in the first place aren't likely getting what they need and stopping to pool what little is coming in isn't necessarily going to fix the issue. Some people end up getting more sensitive to those compounds and as a result get stuck on these elimination diets. Then there's the issue of cheating - any cheating is bad, even the smallest bit can set you back to square one. If you are out often, you will quickly find yourself in one of many irritating situations relating to what you can't eat. Wanna drink beer with your friends? Very few bars offer GF beers - all regular beers have gluten. What's worse? The hard liquors are mostly out too! Need to go to a dinner party for someone? I can't tell you how many times I've eaten just a salad, and even that has gotten glutened one way or another (damn those croutons!). The list of foods that can be cross contaminated is unbelievable, I had to give up sunflower seeds of all things when I was GF because I couldn't find a source that didn't use some form of flour on their production lines! Lots of sauces contain gluten as a thickener, so even stuff you would think is GF (like ribs or chicken) really isn't. A strict GF diet has you eating at home more often than not. It requires a lot of cooking from scratch, meticulous review of all food labels (including those you have purchased previously) and constantly keeping backup food with you. A strict GF diet is a vast undertaking which at this point I honestly think should be reserved for Celiacs diagnosed via blood testing (NOT stool testing which is unreliable). I'd suggest he ensures adequate hydration. Proteins require enzymatic hydrolysis to be broken down into the individual amino acids so as a result dehydration can quickly cause an incomplete breakdown of proteins and the various immune problems associated with absorbing intact proteins. The more dry foods you eat, the more water (or preferably an electrolytic drink - which can be homemade using sea salt, molasses and lemon or various commercial salt preparations such as the C-salts) you need to drink to rehydrate it otherwise your body will use up it's reserves. When you're trying to absorb more water it helps to drink less liquid at a time but to drink that small amount more frequently. This helps prevent mineral and vitamin loss from excessive urination caused by water loading. Other things which I think would really help him include: EFAs (does he take CLO?), essential sugars, Vitamin E, B5 (the co enzyme form pantethine is unbelievable in how fast it improves skin) with Carnitine, B3 (niacinamide form) because both psoriasis and pellagra (B3 deficiency) are characterized by a red scaly rash and it is a good idea to make sure he's getting adequate B vitamins daily (as they are water soluble they don't last very long in the system). In terms of reducing autoimmunity - does he have metal fillings? It might be a good idea to get those out because they cause a host of issues, including autoimmune problems and pancreatic insufficiency (which results in incompletely broken down proteins). Checking for all the toxic metals while you're at it couldn't hurt - hair tests are probably the most non-invasive method (the list has a lot of info). Reducing the amount of chemicals used in the house (cleaning products as well as hygeine products), as well as powering off things such as computers and TVs when not in use will also help. IMHO, all sickness is caused by the system being overloaded by something so long that the vitamins and minerals necessary for controlling the issue become depleted. Temporarily removing the load can help, but only if the appropriate vitamins and minerals are put back in during that time. Thus why I don't believe in going completely GF. Most of my meals are wheat-free (unless I'm eating out) and I do try to have GF days (or GF meals if I can't do a whole day) to give my system a break from the glutens. I do a lot of rice and lentils on the days I don't do gluten - NT has recipes for dosa and idli which are made of rice and lentils. -Lana > Question: why do you think it not a good idea to go coompletely gluten > free? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2007 Report Share Posted June 24, 2007 Masterjohn says Millet is something to stay far away from. You will have to join his newsletter to get the excellent lowdown. On Jun 22, 2007, at 7:42 PM, tarinya2 wrote: >> Spelt and Kamut are lower in gluten than wheat, rye, oats. Corn is >> also high gluten. Millet, amaranth, quinoa, buckwheat are gluten free >> as they are not actual grains. Parashis artpages@... zine: artpagesonline.com portfolio: http://www.artpagesonline.com/EPportfolio/000portfolio.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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