Re: Chronic Fatigue / Food not supplements

[Guest guest]

--- Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...> wrote:

> I'm in recovery from Chronic Fatigue / Fibromylgia (about 75%

> recovered, to date!). Some of the supplements always recommended for

> CF/F include carnitine and CoQ10. Are there natural, food-source

> ways to increase these in the body, without resorting to

> supplements/pills?

>

> I should also mention that I also have several food sensitivities,

> including a severe dairy one (the milk protein casein bothers me --

> NOT the lactose milk sugar) and gluten. I also have some milder

> problems with beef (itching), which I would normally associate with

> higher carnitine levels.

Jent,

Welcome to NN. Here's some reading that may help. I'm sure you've

probably heard about some of it already, but maybe some of it will be new.

Carnitine

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/carnitine.asp

Just ignore the dietary propaganda at the end of this article

CoQ10

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/coq10/

Since coQ10 is more concentrated in heart muscle, I'm surprised they

didn't include heart meat in their list of food sources. Chicken

hearts are easy to find - in most giblet packages. Beef or lamb heart

may be harder to find. I remember reading recently that sheep's heart

is included in traditional ish haggis.

CF/Fibromyalgia

" Diet Helps Fibromyalgia "

http://www.mercola.com/2001/nov/7/fibromyalgia.htm

Nourishing Traditions has excellent general advice about diet.

In addition to diet, Dr Mercola recommends EFT to help.

Here's the link to a course he provides on EFT:

http://www.mercola.com/forms/eftcourse1.htm

" Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue and The Yeast Connection: Is Yeast the

Missing Link? "

By Carolyn Dean, M.D., N.D.

http://www.mercola.com/2004/jul/28/fibromyalgia_yeast.htm

You probably already know about probiotic foods like raw milk, kefir,

active-culture yogurt, and unpasteurized fermented foods. There were

some posts on NN earlier today about using digestive enzymes to help

reduce or eliminate food allergies.

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome!

I LOVE your signature!

This is way off topic, but I was just reading and starting to

try " Inclined Bed Therapy " and one of the things it is said to help

is fibro/chronic fatigue. You can google it for more information,

but it was hard for me to make sense out of. A friend of mine is

trying it and says it is making a difference so I started it for my

occasional restless legs at night. I used old paperbacks to raise

the head of my bed.

I think raising the enzyme level in your body overall will enable the

body to make more CoQ 10. I heard on a radio show years ago an

interview with someone who was really pushing CoQ 10 for heart

disease. He said the body is supposed to make what it needs but due

to chronic enzyme deficiency the body eventually loses its ability to

make as much as it needs. I've heard other places that the body's

ability to make enzymes is limited so the more you can take in

through your diet, the more it frees up the body to make the ones it

isn't getting. The book Pottenger's Cats has some relevant

information about that, as does the work of Dr. Howell, but that is

awful to read, describes lots of vivisection experiments on dogs.

I've read that rejuvelac is a really good live drink for probiotics

and enzymes, it's made from soaking sprouted grain. If you're

sensitive to gluten I imagine you can use the lower gluten grains

like oats or kamut. Other food enzymes come from papaya, pineapple,

raw meats, and homebrewing Making malt for beer is all about

maximizing the amount of enzymes present and maximizing their

activity. Reading a good homebrewing book is an education on

enzymes! I guess if you don't drink you can let it go to malt

vinegar.

Just to let you know, fibromyalgia could be an l-tryptophan disorder,

and some MD's are saying that supplemental l-tryptophan is a very

good treatment for the symptoms. So maybe proteases (enzymes that

break down proteins) would help the most. A form of induced

fibromyalgia was caused by tainted l-tryptophan from a Japanese lab,

Showa Denko who used untested GM bacteria to make it which

contaminated it with an unknown toxin. Since, l-tryptophan was taken

off the market and people had to get it from veterinary sources, but

I think someone said it's back now.

One last thing, there is a very high incidence of undetected lyme

among the sufferers of fibro and chronic fatigue. The link I just

sent in in regards to autism and lyme (townsend letter one) has near

the bottom of the article a lot of good information on testing for

lyme and why so many who have it remain undiagnosed.

--- In , Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I'm new to the list, and have been reading Nourishing Traditions

and similar

> books for a short while now. I've also been studying herbal

medicines and

> such. I'm interested in ways to create and re-create health the

ways our

> bodies were designed to operate -- and not artificial health

through expensive

> chemistry and such.

>

> In that light, I'm in recovery from Chronic Fatigue / Fibromylgia

(about 75%

> recovered, to date!). Some of the supplements always recommended

for CF/F

> include carnitine and CoQ10. Are there natural, food-source ways to

increase

> these in the body, without resorting to supplements/pills?

>

> I should also mention that I also have several food sensitivites,

including a

> severe dairy one (the milk protein casein bothers me -- NOT the

lactose milk

> sugar) and gluten. I also have some milder problems with beef

(itching), which

> I would normally associate with higher carnitine levels.

>

> Any thoughts, as to what I might use for food-source, or for other

> book/website resources to check?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Jent

>

> " The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my

soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be

my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -

Henry Thoreau

>

>

>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

--- <oz4caster@...> wrote:

> Jent,

>

> Welcome to NN. Here's some reading that may help. I'm sure you've

> probably heard about some of it already, but maybe some of it will be new.

Very interesting -- and it looks like taking red meat from my diet has taken

my best shot for food-based carnitine, as well. Perhaps as my gut heals over

time, I can get back to beef. The dairy problem I believe I've always had --

PERHAPS also the gluten, but perhaps not. All the other problem foods seem to

have appeared in the last 10 years or so. I saw a bit about " leaky gut " and

such here -- what's the best info on that, do you know? What causes it, how

it's healed, and so on?

Thanks!

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

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[Guest guest]

--- haecklers <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Hi and welcome!

>

> I LOVE your signature!

Thanks!

> This is way off topic, but I was just reading and starting to

> try " Inclined Bed Therapy " and one of the things it is said to help

I will check it out. I also have neuralgia in my arms with pressure (as when

laying down to sleep), so perhaps I'd get something out of that!

> I think raising the enzyme level in your body overall will enable the

> body to make more CoQ 10. I heard on a radio show years ago an

> I've read that rejuvelac is a really good live drink for probiotics

> and enzymes, it's made from soaking sprouted grain. If you're

Thanks! I will see how that goes.

> Just to let you know, fibromyalgia could be an l-tryptophan disorder,

> and some MD's are saying that supplemental l-tryptophan is a very

> good treatment for the symptoms. So maybe proteases (enzymes that

I would say I don't have the fibromyalgia (aches and pains) anymore. Within a

week of cutting out the foods I was having problems with, I stopped being

stiff in the morning, stopped aching and paining all day, and so on. The

fatigue is what I still have -- but even so, NOTHING like I had before. And

that's all been from gradually learning to eat what my body wants and needs,

and cutting out what's poison to it.

> contaminated it with an unknown toxin. Since, l-tryptophan was taken

> off the market and people had to get it from veterinary sources, but

> I think someone said it's back now.

I did see it in the health-food store a few months back -- but expensive! $50

for a short supply.

Thanks for all your thoughts and links! Good stuff!

Jent

" The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my soul to be

bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior. What

demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -Henry Thoreau

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[Guest guest]

This site http://ctds.info/ (connective tissue disorder site) has some

good information about various nutritional deficiencies related to the

various connective tissue disorders, magnesium is a big one. . .

.. . .Desh

[Guest guest]

Maybe try fermenting the beef, it makes it more digestible. I like

to let it sit layered in Kimchi for 24 hours or more in the

refrigerator (in a glass dish) before cooking it. Gives it a nice

flavor and the enzymes and bacteria in the kimchi do their work on

the meat to tenderize it and start breaking it down. It's gotten to

the point where I rarely want to eat straight meat anymore, always

brine it or ferment it. Fermented meat, no matter how much I eat,

never causes stomach/bowel problems later, tho a nice Outback steak

will every time.

I'm wondering if raw milk disagrees with you or only pasturized? My

daughter can drink raw milk but not the pasturized. I find it

interesting that before we discovered raw milk, when I knew she got

behavior problems from drinking it, she really craved dairy and would

sneak it and cry for it. Now that we know she can have raw milk/raw

milk cheese, she doesn't really crave it anymore.

--- In , Jent Lynne <jentlynne@...>

wrote:

>

>

> Very interesting -- and it looks like taking red meat from my diet

has taken

> my best shot for food-based carnitine, as well. Perhaps as my gut

heals over

> time, I can get back to beef. The dairy problem I believe I've

always had --

> PERHAPS also the gluten, but perhaps not. All the other problem

foods seem to

> have appeared in the last 10 years or so. I saw a bit about " leaky

gut " and

> such here -- what's the best info on that, do you know? What causes

it, how

> it's healed, and so on?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Jent

>

> " The greater part of what my neighbors call good, I believe in my

soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be

my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well? " -

Henry Thoreau

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

_____________

> You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck

> in the all-new Beta.

> http://advision.webevents./mailbeta/newmail_html.html

>

[Guest guest]

--- Renate <haecklers@...> wrote:

> Maybe try fermenting the beef, it makes it more digestible. I like

> to let it sit layered in Kimchi for 24 hours or more in the

> refrigerator (in a glass dish) before cooking it. Gives it a nice

> flavor and the enzymes and bacteria in the kimchi do their work on

> the meat to tenderize it and start breaking it down. It's gotten to

> the point where I rarely want to eat straight meat anymore, always

> brine it or ferment it. Fermented meat, no matter how much I eat,

> never causes stomach/bowel problems later, tho a nice Outback steak

> will every time.

I wonder if kombucha would work for marinating/fermenting/tenderizing

meat overnight before cooking?

[Guest guest]

Do you know what is in it? Maybe that would give a clue. I think the

kimchi has more than just acid, it has the lactobacteria and yeast, tho

I don't know how much protease/lipase/cellulase they contain so now I

feel silly discussing this. If someone more knowledgable pipes in I'll

be very interested to hear what they have to say!

> > Maybe try fermenting the beef, it makes it more digestible. I like

> > to let it sit layered in Kimchi for 24 hours or more in the

> > refrigerator (in a glass dish) before cooking it. Gives it a nice

> > flavor and the enzymes and bacteria in the kimchi do their work on

> > the meat to tenderize it and start breaking it down. It's gotten

to

> > the point where I rarely want to eat straight meat anymore, always

> > brine it or ferment it. Fermented meat, no matter how much I eat,

> > never causes stomach/bowel problems later, tho a nice Outback steak

> > will every time.

>

> I wonder if kombucha would work for marinating/fermenting/tenderizing

> meat overnight before cooking?

>

>

>