Re: new member

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

Welcome to the group.

I had fib episodes that lasted only about 5-15 minutes on and off

every 6 mo or so for years before I was in a-fib long enough to be

diagnosed.

My first diagnosable episode ended with me in hospital and put on

rate control drugs (digoxin and cardizem in hosp; cardizem and toprol

when I left the hospital).

So, the answer is really that no one knows when the next episode will

occur. The triggers listed by the man who answered you before me are

all things to avoid. My triggers are lack of rest (sleep), stress,

and MSG in food. MSG was my trigger for the July incident that drove

me to non-stop a-fib. I saw an EP and was hospitalized and put on

anti-arrhythmic meds.

Good luck! Hope you will remain fib free!!

Cheryl

<SNIP>

> I'm interested in knowing how soon after their first time did other

> listers have subsequent attacks?

> Greetings from Oz,

> Liz

[Guest guest]

Also, tests for thyroid problems (high thyroid) need to be done.

I never had the angiogram cause my stress test and echo were okay.

>

>

> Welcome to our site. What part of Aus are you in. We have a few

members out there.

>

> This is the most traumatic time wondering if its going to come back

or wondering what caused it. I can empathise with you.

>

> The cardiologist has to ensure that nothing has caused this and

make a diagnosis, sometime in the very rare occasions it make be an

episode only.

> The tests he should do on you are.

>

> Angogram , to make sure you pipes are disease free,

> Stress teat to ensure you have no angina.

> An Echo cardiogram to make sure your valves are working ok.

> BP etc

>

> It may be an idea to have a 24 hour houlter tape to see what is

going on with your heart electrically.

>

> After that he should be able to make a diagnosis.

>

> good luck

>

>

> C

>

>

> > Hello to everyone,

> > I had my first episode of AF last week 1/15/03.I found it very

> > unnerving.It started at 4pm after an ice-cold drink,and didn't

revert

> > until 0700 the next morning.Needless to say I spent the night

being

> > monitored in CCU.I was given 2 IV doses of amiodarone,but it

seems

> > that I probably would have reverted without it anyway.I am now on

> > 150mg of aspirin until I see the Cardiologist in 4 weeks.My

problem

> > is that I'm now anxiously awaiting what may be the inevitable,my

next

> > episode of AF.

> > I'm interested in knowing how soon after their first time did

other

> > listers have subsequent attacks?

> > Greetings from Oz,

> > Liz

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

**********************************************************************

> This message may contain information which is confidential or

privileged.

> If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender

immediately

> by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

> without retaining a copy.

>

>

**********************************************************************

[Guest guest]

> ...what may be the inevitable,my next

> episode of AF.

> I'm interested in knowing how soon after their first time did other

> listers have subsequent attacks?

> Greetings from Oz,

> Liz

Hi, Liz,

When I had my first afib episode, I was under tremendous stress, and

I had episodes in and out that month. Then the meds got straightened

out, the stress was significantly reduced, and I learned my triggers,

a list of which someone has already pointed out. Cross fingers,

except for sudden major stress, I think I can mostly avoid afib now

by significant vigilence - if I notice an increase in ectopics, I

rest on the sofa and take extra beta blocker (my only med except

aspirin).

This is the opposite of what someone else reported, where his or her

situation got worse. Then we have , who was having tons of afib

for years, and recently thru diet (elimination of dairy foods) is now

almost completely in sinus, I think one tiny afib episode in six

months, if I remember correctly.

This is a long way of saying afib is unpredictable, but there is a

lot of hope that virtually anyone can reach an afib-free state, if

not by lifestyle changes, then by meds, or the new type of ablation

that zaps the area around the pulmonary veins that mostly cause afib

(not to be confused with the older ablation type which requires a

pacemaker afterwards and IMHO no one should get now.)

You might ask your doc if you need to go to the ER - I like my nice

warm sofa much better. If you get anxious during an attack (I still

do), hop in here and whine - I do that and get a lot of emotional

support.

Hugs,

Trudy

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce

welcome to the band of AF brothers and Sisters.

The medications your taking is quite old fashioned now and yes things have moved

on with the medical treatments for AF.

One thing if your feeling ok then it may be better to leave all alone, if your

not feeling well then thats another matter.

You could try an EP and talk about an internal coarioversion this may be able to

get you back into NSR but keeping you there is another matter. There are some

good medications around now like Flecanyde and Dofetilide and some other trail

drugs. If you can at least get back into NSR or PAF then that

may get your heart back to normal after so long in AF. It may have remoulded and

that's the problem.Then who knows ou may be able to have a PVA.

If your feeling really rough then there is the maze but that needs careful

consideration. Again it depends how you feel.Re stress this is a factor and it

no good having stress for any person let alone somebody with AF.

Best regards

C Uk

Hello

I have suffered from AF for five years. In the first year I had two

electrical cardioversions that did not work. Since then I have been

living with permanent AF maintained with digoxin to keep my heart

rate down, and coumadin to prevent clotting. No physical reason for

my AF was found, but my doctors said this was not uncommon. Perhaps

medicine has advanced in the last five years regarding AF and I

should be seeking other treatment. I am 58 and working in a very

stressful situation. If stress is a debilitating factor for AF

sufferers I am considering early medical retirement. Any advice would

be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Bruce

**********************************************************************

This message may contain information which is confidential or privileged.

If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately

by reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments

without retaining a copy.

**********************************************************************

[Guest guest]

> Hello

> I have suffered from AF for five years.

Hi, Bruce,

Yes, treatment for afib has made enormous strides in the past five

years. I would consult a good cardiologist about trying doetilide

(aka tikosyn) which has helped various people in here go from either

intermittent or permanent afib back into normal sinus rhythm. Also,

there is a state of the art ablation technique involving ablating

around the pulmonary veins.

Stress is a big trigger. I would think about whether you can

transfer to a lower stress job at your employer's.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>Perhaps

>medicine has advanced in the last five years regarding AF and I

>should be seeking other treatment. I am 58 and working in a very

>stressful situation. If stress is a debilitating factor for AF

>sufferers I am considering early medical retirement. Any advice would

>be greatly appreciated.

>

Dear Bruce,

Here are some options you may want to discuss with your doctor:

1. The antiarrhythmic medication dofetilide (brand name Tikosyn).

Some of our members have had great results with it. But be advised that

antiarrhythmic drugs in general tend to have more bad side effects. You

have to be hospitalized when you start treatment with it so that they

can monitor you for possible side effects.

2. A Pulmonary Vein Ablation (Isolation) procedure. It is a low risk

procedure with a high rate of success. But the success rates are not as

good if you are in permanent A-Fib. They run a catheter through a vein

in your groin into your heart and ablate (burn off) the heart tissue

that produces the A-Fib signals. I had mine five years ago and haven't

had a symptom since.

Stress is certainly a trigger and/or cause of A-Fib. If you would be

happy retiring early on a medical, we'd be happy to research and find

documentation and studies you might need to get your retirement.

But realize that stress is part of the messiness of life. Some

Eastern philosophies suggest that happiness is the removal of wants,

cares, desires, etc. But as human being we are built to want, to care,

to need, to be successful and accomplish things, to love and be loved.

This often leads to stress. Meditation tapes, exercise, healthy life

styles, a faith based vision of life, etc. may help; but for example

when someone you love hurts or disappoints you, it's pretty hard not to

feel stress. Don't get down on yourself if you feel stress. It's part of

the human condition.

A-FibFriendSteve

[Guest guest]

Bad side effects? There are several us here that have little or none!

Don't scare away the new guys, Steve! And as far as hospitalization,

isn't that only with Tikosyn? I know it is not indicated for Tambocor

except in a few uncommon cases.

Re: New member

snip

>

Dear Bruce,

Here are some options you may want to discuss with your doctor:

1. The antiarrhythmic medication dofetilide (brand name Tikosyn).

Some of our members have had great results with it. But be advised that

antiarrhythmic drugs in general tend to have more bad side effects. You

have to be hospitalized when you start treatment with it so that they

can monitor you for possible side effects.

2. A Pulmonary Vein Ablation (Isolation) procedure. It is a low risk

procedure with a high rate of success. But the success rates are not as

good if you are in permanent A-Fib. They run a catheter through a vein

in your groin into your heart and ablate (burn off) the heart tissue

that produces the A-Fib signals. I had mine five years ago and haven't

had a symptom since.

snip

[Guest guest]

With Dofetilide I had an extremely *easy* three day hospitalization

stay in the Fall of 2000. I have been in NSR since. I have had

absolutely *no* side effects.

Ellen

(NSR on Dofetilide)

*******************

(snip) There are several us here that have little or none!

> Don't scare away the new guys, Steve! And as far as

hospitalization, isn't that only with Tikosyn? (snip)

********************

> -----Original Message-----

> From: a-fibfriend [mailto:a-fibfriend@c...]

(snip) antiarrhythmic drugs in general tend to have more bad side

effects. You have to be hospitalized when you start treatment with

it so that they can monitor you for possible side effects. (snip)

*********************

[Guest guest]

Hi Lola,

Welcome. Hate that you had an a-fib attack, but glad you found the

group so quickly.

I have a-fib condition and the only explanation they have been able

to give me as a cause is that my BP has been too high for extended

periods and caused a small thickening of the atrium wall.

Echocardiogram will give them the answer about thickening of walls of

heart, valve leakages, and blood flow in the heart.

Were you also tested for hyperthyroidism, which can also cause afib.

I did a nuclear stress test and they forgot to " hold " my meds that

morning. Thought we'd never get the heart rate up enough cause the

meds were keeping heart rate low! So, don't take your meds before the

treadmill test.

Good luck. Hopefully it was just the virus causing your problems and

you will be a one-timer with a-fib.

Were you sent home on meds??

Cheryl

-- In AFIBsupport , " Lola049 " <cen38533@c...> wrote:

> Hi, I am new here and wondered what a PVA is!? I was just

> hospitalized with very high b/p and atrial fib. I had a virus

going

> on and when I took my blood pressure and saw how high it was, I

> panicked and my heart went into arythmia. (SNIP) I

[Guest guest]

Welcome to the AFib board. Your not alone and we're all here to help you.

With our experiences and layman's knowledge. We are not a medical board with

diagnostic expertise. We are a bunch of AFib'ers who hang together.

Reading your email, it sounds like they are trying to do a work up on you, to

determine your problem and what do to about it. With AFib, Echocardiogram's,

stress test, blood tests, EKG's and 24 hr. or 30 day heart monitors (Holter or

King of Hearts) are the tools needed to accomplish this. Having a

Cardiologist/Electrophsiologist who's cutting edge is a must.

Bruce explained the PVA question.

Rich O

[Guest guest]

Hi,

PVA = Pulmonary Vein Ablation. Basically, its a surgical procedure

(via catheters) that zap areas around where the Pulmonary Veins enter

the heart that are probably responsible for causing a-fib.

If this is your first and only experience of a-fib then its not

something you should pursue. People that get this procedure done are

usually highly symptomatic, have failed to maintain NSR (Normal Sinus

Rhythme - spelling??) with medications, and want relief from the

problems.

Will you be getting follow-ups? One problem with a-fib is that a lot

of people are asymptomatic (meaning that outward signs are not

evident.) Did they put you on any kind of medications? Hope the

doctors find out what's going on.

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Hi, MLou,

They have made great advances in ablation in the past 2-3 years. I

assume you mean the type of ablation where they zap the bothersome

parts of the heart, not the old style which leaves you requiring a

pacemaker. You have to get a good experienced doc, though.

[Guest guest]

Hello MLou,

Welcome to the board. Your questions about Pulmonary Vein Ablations have come

to the right place. We have many success stories and just as many not so

successful.

PVA's today have a high success rate. Up to 85%. I think it is really 50% at

best (cure). It all depends on what the Doctor(s) criteria for success is. You

can go to <A HREF= " www.affacts.org " >www.affacts.org</A> for a detailed review of

the procedure.

As far as s Hopkins, it is judged to be the overall top hospital in the

US and ranked number six (6) in cardiology and heart issues. Like any hospital,

there are problems from time to time. We have a board member who did not have

a good experience at JH with a PVA and maybe they would share the experience

with you. Plus help steer you through the JH maze (figure of speech

AFibber's!).

If you are intent on having a PVA. Having the best Electrophysiologist is a

must.

This is the arrhythmia specialist who does the PVA. The top hospital in the

US for this procedure is the Cleveland Clinic in ............Cleveland. Dr.

Natale is the EP there along with several other top EP's. I had a successful PVA

done almost a year ago to this day, in Boston.

Do your homework and ask lots of questions. There are many on this board that

can help you (Lew).

Good luck

Rich O

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

Here are 2 stories. My cure was rougher than most, as I had rather severe and

complicated afib.

http://www.a-fib.com/PersonalExperiences.htm

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I had an ablation last December, and I am far better off now than I

was before the ablation. Very few episodes of a-fib since. 3 or 4

that I know of for sure since, as opposed to daily bouts before the

ablation. Although, and it really disgusted me, I had an episode

this morning after getting out of bed. Lasted less than a half hour

I know that, but it still sucked.

But on another note, concerning your potential choice of Hopkins

as where to get your ablation done, and maybe others out here can

refresh my memory (please), but weren't there some recent post on

this website about the lack of quality care by the doctors there at

JH? Wasn't there one lady who posted here about a very awful

experience as a result of negligence and total incompetence of some

doctor at JH?

Bruce

> I just discovered this group and am thrilled to have found it. I

> have had afib for over 3 years and been on every medication out

> there. Just met with a doc at s Hopkins who does catheter

> ablation and said I would be a perfect candidate. I am seriously

> considering this option. Afib is destroying my quality of life and

I

> don't like being on so many meds. Can anyone share there

experience

> with ablation? - Thanks MLou

[Guest guest]

Pam,

I agree. A successful PVA is A Fib cured. I got my 50% from my EP's. Dr's.

Mark phson and Zimetbaum. Beth Israel Deaconness Med. Ctr. Boston. Dr.

phson is the top man. Both are Harvard Medical school Prof's. Beth Israel

is a Harvard Medical School teaching hospital along with Mass. General,

Bringham & Women's and Children's Hospital.

Dr. phson has told me that other hospital's (CC) carefully select their

PVA candidates and as such can claim a high success rate 85% to 90%. All these

numbers are promoted by the respective hospitals. Dr. phson said " we take

them all " even the failed patients from the Cleveland Clinic. The good

candidates do well, and the not so good we can at least improve their quality of

life. He said 50% would be his average PVA success rate based on types of

patients. He's very honest and is an AFib sufferer himself. Not enough to bother

with

he said.

Dr. phson's forte is VentricularTachycardia ablations.

Keyword-Dr. Mark phson, lot's of info on him.

Success rate are very subjective. If your a good candidate, you should do

well. If your not a good candidiate, your success rate will be a less.

Maybe.......

Rich O

[Guest guest]

> I just discovered this group and am thrilled to have found it. I

> have had afib for over 3 years and been on every medication out

> there. Just met with a doc at s Hopkins who does catheter

> ablation and said I would be a perfect candidate. I am seriously

> considering this option. Afib is destroying my quality of life and

I

> don't like being on so many meds. Can anyone share there

experience

> with ablation? - Thanks MLou

MLou - I am the person with the near death experience at Hopkins.

Thanks Bruce, in case I didn't see MLou's post. On the left of your

screen click on Database - then scroll down to Ablation. Click on ?

newest? latest? Whatever, Hopkins is only on there once and that is

my post. Please read about my experience there. If you read all of

the entries it seems the EP with the most posts of success is Natale

at Cleveland Clinic. Would love to read your decision.

Pam

[Guest guest]

> PVA's today have a high success rate. Up to 85%. I think it is

really 50% at

> must.> Rich O

>

> Rich: I did send MLou to database Ablations where ironically I

just made an entry today per posted moderators request. Where did

you come up with your stats. EP doctors might claim such success for

obvious reasons. I would call success the absence of Afib and not AF

gone and now I have A Flutter. The only place I have seen stats is

on this groups database ablations that I would have gauged at 15 -

20%. I was never good at statistics. However you must have stats

from some other source? Seems like the database Ablations responders

would be an average group?

Pam

>

[Guest guest]

> Seems like the database Ablations responders

> would be an average group?

I think it's almost certain that the database is not going to be average.

I have a great deal of sympathy for what happend to you Pam but I believe

you've stated that you are only the third person that this has happend to.

Statistically speaking, given the many 1000s of ablations that have happened

I'm not sure how 'statistically significant' it is.

Of course it's pretty significant when it happens to you! and I believe it's

only right that people should be made aware of what happened.

This support group will naturally attract a negative bias. Would you have

found this group if your ablation had been successful and you were cured?

Even the people who arrived at this group before they had an ablation and have

since had one and entered their details are not necessarily representative of

the AF population. (but I think it would remove a lot of the bias if you

split the database into those two groups)

I think it's wise to consider stats from this support group , my database, and

Hans' Surveys with a little bit of caution. People with AF who go through

the system without problem and are now cured are much less ilkley to show

their faces here.

all the best - you are of course much more than a statistic

--

D

[Guest guest]

I am responding since Rich O has nudged me. I have been a tad reluctant to

weigh in since (as I write this, I am one day shy of three weeks from my

ablation. I have this list to thank for the insights, shared so openly, the

success stories and those, alas, not so successful. For me, now, three

weeks into a " normal life " (one without afib) has meant a complete turn

around. I have had the " normal " adjustments (one four hour afib incident,

two minor extra heart beats incidents (one lasting ten minutes, the other

lasting ten seconds.) The rest of the 300 odd hours have been wonderful. I

sleep well, awake refreshed and anticipate the day. I wished I had the

procedure a year ago.

My procedure was done by Dr. Natale at the Cleveland Clinic. He and his

staff acted with great professionalism and individual empathy. Once I knew

I was going to the Cleveland Clinic I went on a diet. But since the

procedure, it's been easy to lose weight since I am no longer stuffing

myself to assuage my anxiety about when, how long and how severe my next

afib would be. Fourteen pounds, and three belt notches so far. I am in

supervised cardiac rehabilitation at Weiss Hospital in Chicago ( a

University of Chicago hospital where my cardiologist Dr. Ian Cohen

resides). I go to rehab three times a week, and with a halter monitor and

exercise about 45 minutes. I plan to lose another 30 pounds (two pounds a

week) and then take up (again) power walking by Lake Michigan, perhaps even

tennis (doubles, most likely.) My medications have been cut and I no longer

experience short term memory loss. I plan on stopping as many medications

as the doctors will allow (and I will push hard to leave all of them behind.)

In my case Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Natale (and all those associated with

him) deserve the credit for turning my life around. While I am sure there

are other surgeons who might well do the procedure with great skill and

care, my feeling is that there aren't all that many. Caution is the

operative idea here. I was insistent that, first, I had to have an

ablation (the drugs were just having too much of a negative effect on me.)

and second, I was fortunate enough to have insisted on my choice of Dr.

Natale. So, here I am at 10:30 p.m. writing a detailed letter, ready to

read a good book for another hour or so, my heart rate thumping away at a

normal rate and a smile on my face.

I am fortunate indeed to have found this list with so many wise and caring

people. It was this list that led me to Dr. Natale and Cleveland Clinic.

Lew Koch

[Guest guest]

> Pam,

> I agree. A successful PVA is A Fib cured. I got my 50% from my

EP's. Dr's.

> Mark phson and Zimetbaum. Beth Israel Deaconness Med.

Ctr. Boston. Dr.

> phson is the top man. Both are Harvard Medical school Prof's.

Beth Israel

> is a Harvard Medical School teaching hospital along with Mass.

General,

> Bringham & Women's and Children's Hospital.

> Dr. phson has told me that other hospital's (CC) carefully

select their

> PVA candidates and as such can claim a high success rate 85% to

90%. All these

> numbers are promoted by the respective hospitals. Dr. phson

said " we take

> them all " even the failed patients from the Cleveland Clinic. The

good

> candidates do well, and the not so good we can at least improve

their quality of

> life. He said 50% would be his average PVA success rate based on

types of

> patients. He's very honest and is an AFib sufferer himself. Not

enough to bother with

> he said.

> Dr. phson's forte is VentricularTachycardia ablations.

> Keyword-Dr. Mark phson, lot's of info on him.

> Success rate are very subjective. If your a good candidate, you

should do

> well. If your not a good candidiate, your success rate will be a

less.

> Maybe.......

> Rich O

>

> Rich: What your saying makes sense with regard to hospitals

accepting patients who are a little less well to begin with.

However, looking at D's stats it would seem that the majority

of candidates appear to be in fairly good, if not excellent health.

Then pointed out in a response to same question that in this

group, probably most of the time that the person is cured of afib

he/she. may not remain active in this group, hence the appearance of

the success/failure ratio of PVA,s as documented in the database.

Possibly the people who join the group out of frustration then have a

successful ablation may never log on again, whereas those who have

had failed ablations or otherwise horrible outcomes feel a more

pressing need to tell their stories. (such as me) Incidentally, I

had a follow up visit with the surgeon after about a week or two;,

routine post-op follow up, but otherwise have never heard from

Hopkins.

Pam

>

[Guest guest]

> I am responding since Rich O has nudged me. I have been a tad

reluctant to

> weigh in since (as I write this, I am one day shy of three weeks

from my

> ablation. I have this list to thank for the insights, shared so

openly, the

> success stories and those, alas, not so successful. For me, now,

three

> weeks into a " normal life " (one without afib) has meant a complete

turn

> around. I have had the " normal " adjustments (one four hour afib

incident,

> two minor extra heart beats incidents (one lasting ten minutes, the

other

> lasting ten seconds.) The rest of the 300 odd hours have been

wonderful. I

> sleep well, awake refreshed and anticipate the day. I wished I had

the

> procedure a year ago.

>

> My procedure was done by Dr. Natale at the Cleveland Clinic. He and

his

> staff acted with great professionalism and individual empathy.

Once I knew

> I was going to the Cleveland Clinic I went on a diet. But since the

> procedure, it's been easy to lose weight since I am no longer

stuffing

> myself to assuage my anxiety about when, how long and how severe my

next

> afib would be. Fourteen pounds, and three belt notches so far. I am

in

> supervised cardiac rehabilitation at Weiss Hospital in Chicago ( a

> University of Chicago hospital where my cardiologist Dr. Ian Cohen

> resides). I go to rehab three times a week, and with a halter

monitor and

> exercise about 45 minutes. I plan to lose another 30 pounds (two

pounds a

> week) and then take up (again) power walking by Lake Michigan,

perhaps even

> tennis (doubles, most likely.) My medications have been cut and I

no longer

> experience short term memory loss. I plan on stopping as many

medications

> as the doctors will allow (and I will push hard to leave all of

them behind.)

>

> In my case Cleveland Clinic and Dr. Natale (and all those

associated with

> him) deserve the credit for turning my life around. While I am sure

there

> are other surgeons who might well do the procedure with great skill

and

> care, my feeling is that there aren't all that many. Caution is the

> operative idea here. I was insistent that, first, I had to have

an

> ablation (the drugs were just having too much of a negative effect

on me.)

> and second, I was fortunate enough to have insisted on my choice of

Dr.

> Natale. So, here I am at 10:30 p.m. writing a detailed letter,

ready to

> read a good book for another hour or so, my heart rate thumping

away at a

> normal rate and a smile on my face.

>

> I am fortunate indeed to have found this list with so many wise and

caring

> people. It was this list that led me to Dr. Natale and Cleveland

Clinic.

>

> Lew Koch

Lew: How wonderfully said! I can picture you reclining with a good

book and a smile on your face! Congratulations!

Pam

[Guest guest]

thanks

Sheri

> Welcome Sheri!!!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Alright!! you are doing great!!

>My wife and I started on the SBD 9 days ago and so far I've lost 12

>lbs and my wife 10. At almost 60 years, I had given up the idea of

>any easy diets. :-)<

> Hi All,

> My wife and I started on the SBD 9 days ago and so far I've lost 12

> lbs and my wife 10. At almost 60 years, I had given up the idea of

> any easy diets. :-)

>

> I love this program. We haven't been hungry since we've started

and

> we notice that we just don't seem get as hungry as we used to.

>

> I've started getting a couple of 's $1 Caesar Salads (minus

the

> croutons)and eat them at work. That with a few light snacks such

as

> nuts and sugar free jello, gets me through the day.

>

> Best,

>

> Andy Keeney

> Dewitt, MI

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on you both for the loss.

Sheri

> Hi All,

> My wife and I started on the SBD 9 days ago and so far I've lost

12

> lbs and my wife 10. At almost 60 years, I had given up the idea

of

> any easy diets. :-)

>

> I love this program. We haven't been hungry since we've started

and

> we notice that we just don't seem get as hungry as we used to.

>

> I've started getting a couple of 's $1 Caesar Salads (minus

the

> croutons)and eat them at work. That with a few light snacks such

as

> nuts and sugar free jello, gets me through the day.

>

> Best,

>

> Andy Keeney

> Dewitt, MI