Re: benefits of whole grains vs. eating low-carb or no-carb?

May 14, 2006

RE: Candida - look up s. boulardii and " Yeast Against Yeast " . It's

pretty interesting and seems to complement what Dr. Price observed.

>

> hey all,

>

> i'm confused.

>

> recently i've had good success overcoming candida symptoms by eating

> absoultely no grains or starchy veg's (basically eating a lot of

good

> fats, meats, fish, birds, eggs, coconut and some lower carbohydrate

> vegs).

May 14, 2006

I found high probiotic things like kefir, kimchi, and kombucha tea to be very

helpful in that regard.

HTH!

--s

May 14, 2006

thanks for the reference - i just looked it up on this site, and

onibasu, and wapf.org, and google.

i had read about it before, and from what i just saw again, it does

say something about being good to combat diarreah. which is not

usually my problem.

i'm not looking for candida cures (i did well with that by the diet

previously described).

i'm asking for advice or others' experiences on what folks here think

about properly soaked whole grains as a way to fix constipation

trouble.

to refresh - i eat lots of raw butter, animal proteins & fats, some

coconut and its oil, bone broths a few times a week, homemade

sauerkraut & kimchee, and a variety of veg's & salads. no sweet

fruits (they don't agree with me).

wondering about re-introducing whole grains as a way to

stay " regular " .

thanks!

> RE: Candida - look up s. boulardii and " Yeast Against Yeast " . It's

> pretty interesting and seems to complement what Dr. Price observed.

>

May 14, 2006

i do make my own saurkraut and kimchee, will try to be better about

eating some every day.

the only cow dairy i can tolerate is butter, which i eat daily. i

would love to be making goat or sheeps milk kefir, or kombucha...

unfortunately, where we are living right now(europe) i have not

located a source of kefir grains or kombucha scoby, though my search

continues!

do you have a preference or opinion regarding eating whole grains or

not, especially in regards to " regularity " ? or do the probiotic foods

do the trick for you whether or not you include the fiber of whole

grains?

thanks! ~ susan

> I found high probiotic things like kefir, kimchi, and kombucha tea

to be very helpful in that regard.

>

> HTH!

>

> --s

>

May 14, 2006

susan wrote:

>i do make my own saurkraut and kimchee, will try to be better about

>eating some every day.

>

>the only cow dairy i can tolerate is butter, which i eat daily. i

>would love to be making goat or sheeps milk kefir, or kombucha...

>unfortunately, where we are living right now(europe) i have not

>located a source of kefir grains or kombucha scoby, though my search

>continues!

>

It has been my observation/experience that fermented anything is about

as good as fermented anything else.

>do you have a preference or opinion regarding eating whole grains or

>not, especially in regards to " regularity " ? or do the probiotic foods

>do the trick for you whether or not you include the fiber of whole

>grains?

>

Grain consumption has almost no impact on my digestive transit time.

I've done it with and without gluten, with and without grains altogether

and saw no difference. High probiotics make a *huge* difference for

me. Just recently, I started working kimchi in at least once a day and

trying for more.....big, big change.

See if you can juggle getting small amounts of fermented food with each

meal, preferably before the entree, and see if that does anything for

you before you start ramping up the grains again.

Does sourcing your grains or scobies have to be on your side of the pond

or does shipping make it cost prohibitive? I have both in spades, but

I'm stateside.

--s

May 14, 2006

On 5/14/06, susan wrote:

>

> a person who i respect a lot in terms of her knowledge of healthy

> eating habits (she's the one who introduced me to w.a.p.f. 3 years

> ago) states adamantly that grains are not good for anyone, and that

> if you get constipated eating low-carb or no-carb that you need to be

> eating more fats.

>

My opinion on this - and I'm one of the least scientific people around here,

so this is just from reading other's posts mostly - is that some people have

trouble digesting any grains, but I wouldn't say that they're bad for

everyone. Gluten grains (wheat, rye, barley, oats, spelt, kamut, etc) are

the most difficult to digest. Rice would be one of the easiest, from what I

can gather.

I'd say that if you do fine with properly prepared whole grains, then go for

it - most WAPFers do eat grains.

Have you tried stewed prunes? Are those too sweet? That's the method for

getting things moving on the SCD, which is a grain, sugar and starch free

diet.

Steph :-)

--

http://www.PraiseMoves.com

The Christian Alternative to Yoga

May 14, 2006

On 5/14/06, susan <thenaturalkitchen@...> wrote:

> but is fiber really the answer? there are some groups of people in

> the world who eat very little or no fiber and are healthy, right? so

> is my personal body type just one that needs some bulk foods to keep

> regular?

I don't know if everyone needs fiber, but I do, and I really don't

think fat is a replacement. I don't, however, think that bran is the

answer -- I'd go with vegetable fiber. I've been eating two salads

per meal lately that I really think seems to help. I think that

starchy foods, apples, onions, and garlic all have some type of fiber

that, for my gut, is fermentable and tends to make things worse, while

low-calorie veggies and especially lettuce seem to provide the bulk to

keep things moving without gas.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

May 14, 2006

On 5/14/06, Steph <gasteph7@...> wrote:

> Gluten grains (wheat, rye, barley, oats, spelt, kamut, etc) are

> the most difficult to digest. Rice would be one of the easiest, from what I

> can gather.

Rice might be easy to digest, but not necessarily safe. By the way,

its my understanding that only white rice is easy to digest, which has

no beneficial fiber, and that brown rice is awful to digest, which has

the fiber.

In any case, I followed the " white rice is good for your gut " theory

for only a short while before I decided that it was having pretty

awful effects. Robin found something similar. And the nutrition is

rice isn't very absorbable -- so I would say it's useless beyond being

great for texture with certain dishes.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

May 14, 2006

> My opinion on this - and I'm one of the least scientific people

around here,

> so this is just from reading other's posts mostly - is that some

people have

> trouble digesting any grains, but I wouldn't say that they're bad

for

> everyone. Gluten grains (wheat, rye, barley, oats, spelt, kamut,

etc) are

> the most difficult to digest. Rice would be one of the easiest,

from what I

> can gather.

>

> I'd say that if you do fine with properly prepared whole grains,

then go for

> it - most WAPFers do eat grains.

~~~steph, i'm no scientist either

i know i don't do well with wheat (noticeble symptoms the day after

if i eat more than a few bites of most breads or pastas), although

sprouted ezekiel and manna breads don't bring on the same symptoms.

even 100% rye breads and rice don't produce any wheat-like symptoms

for me. i used to eat quinoa, millet and brown rice just about every

day when i was in my vegan-macrobiotic days and didn't seem to feel

any negative effects from eating them at the time (i didn't know

about pre-soaking them at that point either) except that i was always

hungry, but i think that was more due to lack of proteins & good

fats. that was over 10 years ago, and i'm not so sure i'd want to

start up on all that again, just to get 'regular', after all the

candida symptoms i've turned around. maybe all that grain consumption

just took a few years to catch up with me.

> Have you tried stewed prunes? Are those too sweet? That's the

method for

> getting things moving on the SCD, which is a grain, sugar and

starch free

> diet.

>

> Steph :-)

~~~i have done the stewed prune thing in the past, it doesn't seem to

help me except for giving me a lot of excess gas. (although i do love

prunes in just about any form! yummm.)

i'm familiar with SCD -- the candida diet i've followed is similar,

with a few more restrictions (no honey, nuts, fruits or carrots to

name a few that are okay on the SCD). and it actually relieved my IBS

symptoms - except for this constipation. at least i don't have any

more bouts of painful cramps and running for the bathroom numerous

times per day interspersed with days of constipation like i used to

have... small victories...

if grain fiber *is* what my body is missing, i think i'd first try

soaked muesli since i don't have to cook it. maybe it was something

in the combination of the dried fruits, a few nuts & seeds and rolled

oats in the muesli that stimulated good transit time (when the fruit

is buffered with the whole grain and the fat from the seeds & nuts i

don't get the ill effects of the fruit sugar).

oh man, i just don't know.

maybe more kimchee and sauerkraut is all i need...

anyhoo, thanks ~ susan

May 14, 2006

so chris, you're eating two green salads with your meals? how much

salad at one sitting? lettuce actually helps, huh? i haven't had that

experience, unfortunately, although i really enjoy salads in all

shapes and sizes.

i've had to stop eating raw veg's & salads altogether sometimes in the

past few years, because they would just move through too fast without

digesting at all, and i'd get more IBS style problems from that.

i eat onions & garlic every day (some raw, some cooked), and i've been

eating them for years, i don't think they're the problem...

i also eat a good sized green salad with fresh tomatoes dressed with

raw garlic/apple cider vinegar dressing, and/or lightly cooked low-

carbohydrate vegetables w/butter or other fat fat every day with a

protein meal, at least once a day, sometimes twice.

i think i'm getting a good amount of veg fiber, but it doesn't seem to

do the trick.

i tend to agree with you, more fat doesn't seem to make things move

easier.

i'm pretty sure i get enough liquids and enough good grey sea salt, i

don't feel dehydrated.

i'm not convinced i should start up on grains again, but those three

happy muesli days reminded me of how nice it is to be 'regular', and

how toxic being clogged up feels. yuk! why oh why won't salad or more

chicken fat do it for me?

hence my dilemma.

someone else here recommended eating more fermented foods. i think

that may be helpful, as my digestion is sluggish as well. i ate half a

cup of homemade sauerkraut this afternoon, i had some in the fridge

that i'd just been forgetting about lately. and i started a new batch

of kimchee as well.

thanks for sharing your experience, and if you have any more thoughts

i'd be happy to hear them.

~ susan

> I don't know if everyone needs fiber, but I do, and I really don't

> think fat is a replacement. I don't, however, think that bran is the

> answer -- I'd go with vegetable fiber. I've been eating two salads

> per meal lately that I really think seems to help. I think that

> starchy foods, apples, onions, and garlic all have some type of fiber

> that, for my gut, is fermentable and tends to make things worse,

while

> low-calorie veggies and especially lettuce seem to provide the bulk

to

> keep things moving without gas.

>

> Chris

May 14, 2006

,

I'm currently doing the milk cure and after the first couple of days

I was having a horrible time with my regularity. However, I tried

taking Swedish Bitters 1t in the morning and at night with a cup of

water and it's like heaven now. I would never have guessed that 1tsp

would make such a difference but Swedish Bitters have been a real

lifesaver for me. I recommend you try this before adding the grains

back, and you might find that like me after your body adjusts that you

don't need as much to keep you regular.

Dave

susan wrote:

>

> i'm not convinced i should start up on grains again, but those three

> happy muesli days reminded me of how nice it is to be 'regular', and

> how toxic being clogged up feels. yuk! why oh why won't salad or more

> chicken fat do it for me?

> hence my dilemma.

>

> 5/12/2006

>

May 15, 2006

hi dave

- what is the milk cure? what are you working on curing?

and the big money question -- what are Swedish Bitters anyway? i know

the package, i've seen it on many a store shelf, in fact i used to

work in a health foods store years back, and i sold it to customers

now and then, but i don't think i ever knew what it was for!

i know its an herbal tonic, is it made for regularity? how long have

you been taking it?

so many questions, i know. the reason is - i'm hoping to get my body

back into balance with a proper diet, so i don't have to rely on a

special tonic or product if possible (i've already weaned off other

products that help with regularity).

that's why i'm asking questions about what/how to eat, based on

others experiences. what is it in Swedish Bitters that works, maybe i

can find in other foods?

thanks ~ susan

> I'm currently doing the milk cure and after the first couple of

days

> I was having a horrible time with my regularity. However, I tried

> taking Swedish Bitters 1t in the morning and at night with a cup of

> water and it's like heaven now. I would never have guessed that

1tsp

> would make such a difference but Swedish Bitters have been a real

> lifesaver for me. I recommend you try this before adding the

grains

> back, and you might find that like me after your body adjusts that

you

> don't need as much to keep you regular.

>

> Dave

>

> susan wrote:

> >

> > i'm not convinced i should start up on grains again, but those

three

> > happy muesli days reminded me of how nice it is to be 'regular',

and

> > how toxic being clogged up feels. yuk! why oh why won't salad or

more

> > chicken fat do it for me?

> > hence my dilemma.

May 15, 2006

,

My wife and I are doing the milk cure for general health and

hopefully for some weight loss. We haven't seen much weight loss in the

week and a half that we've been doing it, but we have felt thinner and

feel much better overall. We are just drinking a gallon of raw milk a

day each and that only. I know you can get more specific, but that is

all we have in a day - some water also. Our energy level has gotten

much better, but I would suspect that it would be much greater if we

continued for the recommend 4 to 6 weeks.

Swedish bitters is just a collection of specific herbs steeped into

a tonic. I don't have the bottle with me now, but it states right on

the back what is in it. I don't find that they list anything

impressive, but the results are impressive. If you read on the internet

about them some people seem to almost consider them a cure-all, but I do

find that they seem to help remarkably for digestion. I've only been

taking them for slightly over a week but already I can start taking less

and less with the same effect. For the $6 I paid for a small bottle I

consider it worth the price. I think the Swedish bitter is something I

won't have to stay on, but can be used to help your body acclimate to a

change in diet. I'm sure their are people that take it daily for a very

long time with good resluts, but I'm not sure it would /necessary/.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

Dave

susan wrote:

> hi dave

>

> - what is the milk cure? what are you working on curing?

>

> and the big money question -- what are Swedish Bitters anyway? i know

> the package, i've seen it on many a store shelf, in fact i used to

> work in a health foods store years back, and i sold it to customers

> now and then, but i don't think i ever knew what it was for!

>

> i know its an herbal tonic, is it made for regularity? how long have

> you been taking it?

>

> so many questions, i know. the reason is - i'm hoping to get my body

> back into balance with a proper diet, so i don't have to rely on a

> special tonic or product if possible (i've already weaned off other

> products that help with regularity).

>

> that's why i'm asking questions about what/how to eat, based on

> others experiences. what is it in Swedish Bitters that works, maybe i

> can find in other foods?

>

> thanks ~ susan

>

> > I'm currently doing the milk cure and after the first couple of

> days

> > I was having a horrible time with my regularity. However, I tried

> > taking Swedish Bitters 1t in the morning and at night with a cup of

> > water and it's like heaven now. I would never have guessed that

> 1tsp

> > would make such a difference but Swedish Bitters have been a real

> > lifesaver for me. I recommend you try this before adding the

> grains

> > back, and you might find that like me after your body adjusts that

> you

> > don't need as much to keep you regular.

> >

> > Dave

> >

> > susan wrote:

> > >

> > > i'm not convinced i should start up on grains again, but those

> three

> > > happy muesli days reminded me of how nice it is to be 'regular',

> and

> > > how toxic being clogged up feels. yuk! why oh why won't salad or

> more

> > > chicken fat do it for me?

> > > hence my dilemma.

>

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May 15, 2006

Oh, , I forgot to mention another source of fiber I've recently discovered:

ground flaxseeds. Just spin the suckers around in the coffee mill and sprinkle

over salads, into soup, or as a friend of mine mentioned, use hot water to make

a kind of porridge out of it. Looooooooots of fiber there.

--s

May 15, 2006

Many years ago when I went to a high protein diet (before I ran into WAPF)

it was the first time in my life I did not have constipation problems. I

think because of the extra fat. Now I am eating WAPF with little to no

grains and I still do not have constipation problems. I spent most of my

life with constipation when I ate grains, etc. I do drink kefir and

kombucha which also help regulate my system.

Allyn

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