Re: Re: Aromatics, Failsafe, Eczema, Deodorant, Smelling Stinky (was Great Chol

[Guest guest]

On 11/23/06, Emma Davies <vitaminkgirl@...> wrote:

> Shredded, steamed cabbage holds a heck of a lot of butter.

I don't like cabbage, and can anyone really eat a whole plate of it?

I can eat a lumping plateful of mixed veggies not allowed on failsafe

that can hold a lot more butter than the maximum I could eat of

steamed cabbage.

> > In any case, the overall result was that I was perpetually hungry and

> > unable to eat enough food while I was doing the strict elimination

> > diet.

> Yes, it would be impossible to do long term unless you sort out a

> decent meat supplier. Can't you even get non-vacuum packed chicken?

I didn't cut back on meat at all. But I can't eat just meat! It's

only part of a meal! And who gets full from eating chicken of all

things? I mean, I roast a chicken and drench it in butter and fill

the cavity with butter, but really, meat can only take so much butter,

unless you're packing fat in a sausage or something.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

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[Guest guest]

Emma,

> > I don't like cabbage, and can anyone really eat a whole plate of it?

> Ok, that suggestion didn't go down well. Not sure why you'd need to

> eat a whole plate of it though.

To get enough food. Obviously a large heaping plate of a steamed

leafy vegetable is going to carry much more butter as well as its own

fiber and so on, and therefore have much more satiety value, than a

smaller portion of a plate.

> > I didn't cut back on meat at all.

> You ate vacuum packed meat? Ah, ok. You're not going to spot an amine

> problem under those circumstances, or really clear your system properly.

I have never even seen vaccum packed meat. I ate regular meat -- i.e.

I bought meat fresh or frozen.

> But I can't eat just meat! It's

> > only part of a meal!

> That sounds like a cultural complaint,

It isn't a cultural complaint. It's an issue of satiety.

>and not relevant if you're not

> GF or CF. I'm still puzzled by where the calories are lacking if you

> aren't GF or CF, and you're still eating meat. Did you tot them up in

> fitday and find a deficit? Did you lose weight? This is definitely a

> calories problem rather than a false-hunger caused by withdrawal of

> food chemicals, or something causing stomach irritation, or a matter

> of vegetable bulk/fibre making you feel full?

Lack of vegetable bulk/fiber and lack of total food. I didn't measure

my calories, but it's sort of obvious when I have less volume of stuff

on my plate that I'm eating less food. I can also eye how much fat

I'm eating by how much I put in a pan and how much is left over after

what I cook is cooked.

> Are you imposing too many other rules on yourself unnecessarily? If

> you have a problem with a food, like potatoes, then avoid them, but

> why does cream _have_ to be raw for you to drink it?

Because drinking a glass of pasteurized cream is disgusting. I'll use

it in coffee, but drinking it straight or mixed with milk it just

doesn't taste healthy, and the texture is very different. I could eat

it in ice cream for that matter too, but not straight.

>Do you have a

> physical health problem with pasteurised cream but not with raw?

I've noticed getting asthmatic symptoms from large amounts of

pasteurized dairy and not raw dairy a few times in the past, but I

think it's usually been like pizza and ice cream.

> Perhaps I am a voice of dissent in my opinion that any kind of dairy

> is better than no dairy at all.

Perhaps.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

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[Guest guest]

" > Perhaps I am a voice of dissent in my opinion that any kind of dairy

> is better than no dairy at all. "

I have to chime in here. Speaking from experience- pasteurized or worse yet,

homogenized dairy

is not digestible for a great many people. I had not been able to have ANY

dairy without dire and painful

consequences for many many years. I mistakenly thought I was lactose

Intolerant because that was the catchword of the day.

Then I discovered RAW milk- voila I can drink that, and skim the cream off

the top, etc.

Then I discovered Kefir ( cultured milk) Now I can Kefir just about any kind

of milk and its acceptable to my system- but I still prefer it made from RAW

milk- there is a definite and discernible difference even when cultured, but

the culturing seems to remove whatever it was that was making me sick and

gassy.

So in a nutshell, for those of us that are sensitive NO DAIRY is far

preferred to sickness and intense pain.

huggs

zoe

[Guest guest]

>

> I didn't cut back on meat at all. But I can't eat just meat! It's

> only part of a meal! And who gets full from eating chicken of all

> things? I mean, I roast a chicken and drench it in butter and fill

> the cavity with butter, but really, meat can only take so much butter,

> unless you're packing fat in a sausage or something.

Wow, I can feel you on this one! I'm trying to combine WAPF, GFCF, SCD and

LOD atm and wondering what is left to eat! I've been eating so much meat, I

had to up my Vitamin A dosage to compensate. (I wasn't taking that much to

start.)

Best I can figure, the only way to success is to start making two foods

regularly: Sausage and Custard. Dried sausage is absolutely to die for

(look up droe wors), I highly reccomend it. As for custard, I made a GFCF

Pumpkin custard pie with my mayo base instead of milk and it came out

unbelieveable. The non-GFCFers I had over for Turkey day couldn't tell the

difference. Are there any veggies you can make custard out of?

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> > I had not been able to have ANY dairy without dire and painful

> > consequences for many many years. I mistakenly thought I was

> lactose Intolerant because that was the catchword of the day.

> > Then I discovered RAW milk- voila I can drink that, and skim

> the cream off the top, etc.

> You know, that *does* actually indicate possible lactose intolerance.

That was exactly what I thought when I read that.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> Hi Chris. Vac packed meat is any meat bought in a sealed container,

> whether a plastic tray or a sealed plastic bag. Or, meat that

> *appears* to be fresh and to have been cut for you by a butcher to

> order, but the whole joint was actually stored in the back of the shop

> in a sealed piece of plastic.

None of the meat I ever buy is vaccum-packed. It's wrapped in

plastic, but it isn't *sealed* in plastic. Whole Foods asserts that

there hamburger is ground the day it is served. I have no idea how

long the steaks have been kept in the freezer or fridge or wherever

before they are put out on display, but after that point, the policy

is they stay out for one day and the second day what remains is ground

for sale.

I've been buying the grass-fed stuff from NZ, which might not follow

the same policy, although they do sell it in steaks as well. It's the

only grass-fed meat I can get at the moment for a number of personal

reasons. It looks different, tastes different and feels different

than the organic grain-fed meat, and feels much healthier to eat, and

the organic grain-fed meat is likewise substantially

healthier-feeling/seeming than the crap sold at regular grocery

stores, upon which I could not sustain myself. So it will have to do

for now.

> I suppose you have a point. I have been to the states twice, and both

> times I got milk out of the fridge of the person I was staying with, I

> thought the milk was off and poured it away, only to open a new carton

> and discover that it was normal.

I can't imagine how much even worse it must have been if you were

drinking regular commercial milk, but I find the somewhat high-end

organic free-range pasteurized creams to be undelightful to drink

straight. On top of it, many creams add carageenan. Organic Valley

lists it on the label, and I wonder if some put it in without listing

it.

> So homemade ice cream and/or custard could be acceptable at a push?

Yes, but I totally forgot that I had an ice cream maker until recently!

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> > I personally wouldn't dare supplement with iron without getting my

> > iron levels checked first.

> I think people are far too terrified of free radicals these days and

> amongst others, I blame Dr. Atkins and Colpo. The free radical

> theory of ageing and disease is only one theory out of at least a

> dozen. There is, equally, evidence that free radicals are as the

> _result_ of disease, not the cause of it, since they are produced

> deliberately by the body when the body is in a state of inflammation,

> their purpose being to destroy invading pathogens.

I didnt' say I wouldn't dare supplement with free radicals; I said I

wouldn't dare supplement with iron. There's reasonably decent

evidence that high iron levels probably aren't a good thing; there

isn't much that I'm aware of that this is because iron promotes free

radical formation.

For all I know it could be that high iron levels accelerate

subclinical systemic infections. Part of the immune defense is to

sequester iron from the blood so that it can't feed pathogens as well.

The production of free radicals to kill pathogens is a controlled

process in specific cells and the body requires antioxidant defenses

to protect its own self against the byproducts.

The need to protect against oxidative stress seems well-established to

me and your point that free radicals are necessary does not seem to me

to be in any way whatsoever contradictory of it.

No one said " free radicals are evil. "

> > That's a linguistic fallacy, not technicality. Either this is because

> > they have antagonistic interactions or not. If they don't, it isn't

> > antagonism.

> I am aware of the complexity of the interactions between trace

> minerals, i.e. interdependence, agonism, antagonism, increased

> requirements, etc., however I could have said what I wanted to say in

> one word, or I could have used twelve.

" There is an antagonism betwen zinc and copper. " 8 words.

" Increased zinc intake increases the need for copper. " 8 words.

Barring any actual antagnosism, which I do not emphatically state does

not exist but simply state I have never seen any evidence of, the

first statement of equal length is false while the second is true.

> Sounds like you knocked out a skin infection like staph. I experienced

> something similar with my eczema when I went on a low carb diet. I

> knocked it out, and it didn't come back for two years.

Possibly, but I don't see why taking PD would knock out a skin

infection. I was thinking maybe I was excreting toxins produced in my

gut or something.

> I would be interested to hear about the lowering of blood levels of

> amines. I don't think it's relevant if one has short/sharp reactions

> to moderate amine foods, but it would certainly be useful for people

> who have tried failsafe and are still in a constant state of

> inflammation despite this.

I read it in a review of inulin that I linked to in the Bifidus thread

recently. I don't have anything beyond that but if I get a chance to

look into it more deeply I'll post to the list.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> US commercial milk tastes like what we call UHT milk in the UK,

> whereas UK pasteurised milk tastes just a little bit more cooked than

> raw milk, I'm a supertaster and I can barely tell the difference

> between the two.

Is there any chance the milk you were drinking was UHT? I don't think

UHT milk is commonly available here, but I don't patronize the places

where it's likely to be found so I'm not sure. Half and half is often

UHT in little pacakges for coffee though.

> I don't get why so many countries have to mess with cream. It's

> impossible to get ordinary cream in France and Spain as well. It's

> either UHT with inexplicable additives when it is available, or in

> France, it's creme fraiche. I like creme fraiche, but you can't put it

> in your coffee. Yet the French love their dairy. I'd never seen so

> many aisles of a supermarket dedicated to yoghurt and cheese until I

> lived in France!

I don't know... but there's lots of little farms (though dwindling...)

left over here!

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Masterjohn wrote:

> Is there any chance the milk you were drinking was UHT? I don't think

> UHT milk is commonly available here, but I don't patronize the places

> where it's likely to be found so I'm not sure.

Organic Valley and Woodstock Farms are the only milk brands that I've

bumped into that are UHT....probably found only in places like Whole

Foods or Trader Joe's and United Buying Clubs.

--s

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> I think there are quite a few

> different standards for levels of pasteurisation. Maybe pasteurisation

> is generally slightly harsher in the states and that's what I'm

> noticing? Or there's some residue of a chemical from the processing

> tanks. Or you have funny tasting cows

There's classical pasteurization, which is 63C for 30 minutes,

high-temperature short-time (HTST), which is 72C for 15 seconds, and

ultra-high temperature (UHT) which is 140C for less than a second. I

think most commercial milk in the US is HTST now.

> Also, you seem to put cilantro in everything. I'd never even heard of

> cilantro until I went to the states. What's with that?

I don't put cilantro in anything, and I rarely run into anything sold

anywhere or made by anyone that has cilantro in it. So that must be

the pocket of people you happened to be around rather than a general

US thing, I think.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

On 11/29/06, Suzanne Noakes <snoakes@...> wrote:

> > Is there any chance the milk you were drinking was UHT? I don't think

> > UHT milk is commonly available here, but I don't patronize the places

> > where it's likely to be found so I'm not sure.

> Organic Valley and Woodstock Farms are the only milk brands that I've

> bumped into that are UHT....probably found only in places like Whole

> Foods or Trader Joe's and United Buying Clubs.

LOL! Guess I had that totally backwards!

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

>

> Also, you seem to put cilantro in everything. I'd never even heard of

> cilantro until I went to the states. What's with that?

Cilantro is actually the US term for Coriander (Leaves) aka Chinese

Parsley. I don't actually see it in many foods over here on the east

coast. Where are you?

Most US dairies use Holstein - I can't say I was ever that fond of it.

Jersey or Guernsey always tasted so much better to me. Does anyone know

what cows are usually used for UK milk? Is it also Holstein now or do they

have some old UK breed?

Back when I still drank milk, I took great offense to how the plastic carton

caused the milk to smell off when it was a day old. I noticed that the

paper cartons didn't contribute nearly as much to the taste - so it could

also be the quality of the material we're using to store the milk.

-Lana

[Guest guest]

Yes it would except OTHER dairy products like cheese and butter and yogurt

were not eventful.

zoe

Tuesday, November 28, 2006, 5:53:48 AM, you wrote:

> " > Perhaps I am a voice of dissent in my opinion that any kind of

dairy

> > is better than no dairy at all. "

> I have to chime in here. Speaking from experience- pasteurized or

worse yet, homogenized dairy

> is not digestible for a great many people.

Hi Zoe, I just want to clarify that I wasn't talking about people who

are sensitive to dairy products. From what has said he doesn't

appear to be dairy sensitive.

I had not been able to have ANY dairy without dire and painful

> consequences for many many years. I mistakenly thought I was

lactose Intolerant because that was the catchword of the day.

> Then I discovered RAW milk- voila I can drink that, and skim

the cream off the top, etc.

You know, that *does* actually indicate possible lactose intolerance.

[Guest guest]

On 11/29/06, Emma wrote:

> --- Lana wrote:

>

> > Cilantro is actually the US term for Coriander (Leaves) aka Chinese

> > Parsley. I don't actually see it in many foods over here on the east

> > coast.

>

> *Aaahh*

>

> What I was tasting all the time tasted a lot like lemon grass and I

> asked my friends about it. They sort of said " huh? " and then said

> maybe it was an artificial flavour, or perhaps it was cilantro. But

> whatever it was... it was everywhere... In Thai food, in soups, in

> salads, in sandwiches, in Taco Bell(!). I started to get really

> paranoid about food because it always tasted of lemongrass. Maybe it

> went out of fashion again, whatever it was.

>

Yes, cilantro was quite trendy a few years ago. I can't stand the stuff. :-p

>

> Maybe someday I'll go back to

> the US and find out.

>

Oh, yes, come! You have to visit Disney World! LOL.

Steph

[Guest guest]

Zoe,

> Yes it would except OTHER dairy products like cheese and butter and

> yogurt were not eventful.

That's part of the reason it could be lactose intolerance -- cheese

and commercial yogurt have reduced lactose and commercial cheese can

often be lactose-free. Yogurt can be lactose-free depending on the

fermentation conditions but commercial yogurt would not be -- though

still substantially lower in lactose.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

OK, but what does this all mean?

zoe

Thursday, November 30, 2006, 7:41:34 AM, you wrote:

> Yes it would except OTHER dairy products like cheese and butter

and yogurt were not eventful.

> zoe

zoe - that actually increases likelihood that the problem is lactose

intolerance...