butter oil vs. K2 supplement

[Guest guest]

I'm debating about whether to get some butter oil or Thorne's

K2...they're about the same price, although I'd get a lot more

servings out of the Thorne's. It's probably going to be a one-time

purchase either way...is the main reason for getting butter oil for

the K2, or are there other things in BO?

[Guest guest]

there are lots of things in butter oil

http://www.greenpasture.org/products/butter_oil/properties

maybe buy the K2 if you are eating lots of raw butter and/or ghee. ghee is

heated. does

anyone know if this affects the K2?

>

> I'm debating about whether to get some butter oil or Thorne's

> K2...they're about the same price, although I'd get a lot more

> servings out of the Thorne's. It's probably going to be a one-time

> purchase either way...is the main reason for getting butter oil for

> the K2, or are there other things in BO?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 6/11/07, carolyn_graff <zgraff@...> wrote:

> there are lots of things in butter oil

> http://www.greenpasture.org/products/butter_oil/properties

> maybe buy the K2 if you are eating lots of raw butter and/or ghee. ghee is

> heated. does

> anyone know if this affects the K2?

There are way lots of things in butter oil. If you're only interested

in K2, natto is probably a better whole food supplement. If you're

only interested in K2 and don't care about whole food supplements,

there's no possible way you could come anywhere within the vicinity at

all of Thone's K2 IMO.

I would get the butter oil also if you don't have access to really

good butter. If you have access to really good butter, pastured, good

soil, etc, I think the butter oil is redundant.

The butter oil is fermented too, and it probably has lots of stuff we

don't really know about or understand.

Ultimately, treat any supplement as a trial. Try to change only one

thing or one related set of things at a time. See if it helps. If

you think you get a benefit, but it isn't dramatic, see if

discontinuing it discontinues the benefit and reintroducing it

reintroduces the benefit.

Ultimately your experience is going to be a better guide than theory.

Theory can only tell you where to start.

Chris

[Guest guest]

On 6/11/07, carolyn_graff <zgraff@...> wrote:

> maybe buy the K2 if you are eating lots of raw butter and/or ghee. ghee is

> heated. does

> anyone know if this affects the K2?

Sorry I forgot this. K2 is stable to heat, but sensitive to light.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>

> There are way lots of things in butter oil. If you're only interested

> in K2, natto is probably a better whole food supplement. If you're

> only interested in K2 and don't care about whole food supplements,

> there's no possible way you could come anywhere within the vicinity at

> all of Thone's K2 IMO.

>

> I would get the butter oil also if you don't have access to really

> good butter. If you have access to really good butter, pastured, good

> soil, etc, I think the butter oil is redundant.

>

> The butter oil is fermented too, and it probably has lots of stuff we

> don't really know about or understand.

We eat Kerrygold butter, which is supposed to be from pastured cows in

Ireland. The color isn't any different that that of the organic

non-pastured butter I've bought in the past, though, so I don't know

how good the butter really is.

I'm specifically looking for something to help straighten my 17 month

old DD's teeth, which are coming in somewhat crooked and crowded.

They've improved since we started eating ghee, so there must be

something in it that's helping. Do you know if it's likely the K2

that's helping?

[Guest guest]

I don't think K2 by itself would necessarily be helpful -- the fat

soluble vitamins all work together, and minerals need to be present

for any to get deposited in the right places.

So, what I'm saying is those other things in the ghee -- Vitamins A,

D and K2, plus minerals, would all be helpful, if not necessary.

(Still wondering what someone else would say, but that's my semi-

educated guess).

Amy

--- In , " tarinya2 " <tarinya2@...>

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > There are way lots of things in butter oil. If you're only

interested

> > in K2, natto is probably a better whole food supplement. If

you're

> > only interested in K2 and don't care about whole food supplements,

> > there's no possible way you could come anywhere within the

vicinity at

> > all of Thone's K2 IMO.

> >

> > I would get the butter oil also if you don't have access to really

> > good butter. If you have access to really good butter, pastured,

good

> > soil, etc, I think the butter oil is redundant.

> >

> > The butter oil is fermented too, and it probably has lots of

stuff we

> > don't really know about or understand.

>

>

> We eat Kerrygold butter, which is supposed to be from pastured cows

in

> Ireland. The color isn't any different that that of the organic

> non-pastured butter I've bought in the past, though, so I don't know

> how good the butter really is.

>

> I'm specifically looking for something to help straighten my 17

month

> old DD's teeth, which are coming in somewhat crooked and crowded.

> They've improved since we started eating ghee, so there must be

> something in it that's helping. Do you know if it's likely the K2

> that's helping?

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On 6/13/07, tarinya2 <tarinya2@...> wrote:

> I'm specifically looking for something to help straighten my 17 month

> old DD's teeth, which are coming in somewhat crooked and crowded.

> They've improved since we started eating ghee, so there must be

> something in it that's helping. Do you know if it's likely the K2

> that's helping?

Like Amy said there's a little bit of all the fat-soluble goodies in

butter, including probably some things we don't even know about. K2

is probably part of the picture.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> There are way lots of things in butter oil. If you're only interested

> in K2, natto is probably a better whole food supplement. If you're

> only interested in K2 and don't care about whole food supplements,

> there's no possible way you could come anywhere within the vicinity at

> all of Thone's K2 IMO.

Don't you figure it'd be a better bet to buy something that's soy-

free and contains K2 in the MK4 form?

-

[Guest guest]

> Don't you figure it'd be a better bet to buy something that's soy-

> free and contains K2 in the MK4 form?

>

,

I'm having great difficulty procuring the Thorne K2 drops. Maybe it's

been discontinued. What's the best choice?

tb

[Guest guest]

-

> I'm having great difficulty procuring the Thorne K2 drops. Maybe it's

> been discontinued. What's the best choice?

To my knowledge, Thorne's K2 is the best deal. Here are a few Google

hits.

<http://www.totaldiscountvitamins.com/default.asp?

CatalogID=72314 & SubfolderID=76 & AssocID=froogle>

Err, wow, that's the only even semi-decent one that came up. I

wonder what's up with that.

Willner carries it, but they don't list Thorne products online. I

expect you could order it from them over the phone, though. <http://

www.willner.com/index.aspx>

I sure do miss the days when it was available for $30...

Actually, at this point AOR's Peak K2 is probably the best deal.

<http://store.agoodvitamin.com/aorpek2100ve.html>

That's 90 15mg caps for $49.50, or a little over 27mg per dollar.

That's actually a better deal than the Thorne ever was, except for

the fillers AOR uses.

-

[Guest guest]

>

>I'm having great difficulty procuring the Thorne K2 drops.

>Maybe it's been discontinued. What's the best choice?

>tb

T, I never have a problem getting it from

http://www.totaldiscountvitamins.com/default.asp?CatalogID=72314 & SubfolderID

=76 & AssocID=froogle

Suze

[Guest guest]

> T, I never have a problem getting it from

>

http://www.totaldiscountvitamins.com/default.asp?CatalogID=72314 & SubfolderID

> =76 & AssocID=froogle

>

> Suze,

They'll take the order, true. Later they'll email saying it's out of

stock and void the order. Virtually every other site you order from

goes back to total health. I ordered it from elsewhere for about

$59/each and have yet to receive the product or hear from the company.

this is all within the past 4 weeks.

tb

[Guest guest]

I'll just repost this question, since I'm guessing that most inquiring

minds want to know...

Has the Green Pastures Butter Oil been tested for K2 levels yet?

Thank you,

Amy

[Guest guest]

>They'll take the order, true. Later they'll email saying it's

>out of stock and void the order. Virtually every other site

>you order from goes back to total health. I ordered it from

>elsewhere for about $59/each and have yet to receive the

>product or hear from the company.

>

>this is all within the past 4 weeks.

Huh. Well I've never had a problem ordering from them, but I haven't ordered

within the last 4 weeks. I hope this is an anomoly!

Suze

[Guest guest]

order the k2 from iherb.com, prices are reasonable and were in stock

last week. rita.

[Guest guest]

,

> > There are way lots of things in butter oil. If you're only interested

> > in K2, natto is probably a better whole food supplement. If you're

> > only interested in K2 and don't care about whole food supplements,

> > there's no possible way you could come anywhere within the vicinity at

> > all of Thone's K2 IMO.

> Don't you figure it'd be a better bet to buy something that's soy-

> free and contains K2 in the MK4 form?

Thorne qualifies and for K2 specifically the dose-per-dollar is

incredibly high. As far as I know those are the two supplements that

are cost-effective specifically for K2.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Howdy!

I'm new to the list & have been reading the posts with much interest... :-)

While I find the latest research on K2 very interesting and will do further

research to educate myself, I will continue to take both butter oil & CLO...how

can that synergy be replicated in any other food or supplement? Whole food

supplements will always be the best way to supplement our NN diets, IMHO. Even

with our technological advances, I think we're light years away from knowing

exactly what is in butter oil, CLO or any other food source, much less

understanding how our bodies process & utilize food & supplements and the

synergy between them. :-)

Oh & I contacted Green Pastures regarding testing K2 levels in the butter oil.

I was told that " testing to confirm the theory is being done and nothing has

been confirmed yet. "

I'm looking forward to learning a lot from ya'll... :-)

Warm regards ~~ Faydra

---------------------------------

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!

Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Games.

[Guest guest]

Chris-

> Thorne qualifies and for K2 specifically the dose-per-dollar is

> incredibly high. As far as I know those are the two supplements that

> are cost-effective specifically for K2.

Is natto actually available in supplement form? I guess I can't

argue with you on a dose-per-dollar basis when it comes to natto

itself, though. It's probably the cheapest.

As to doses of K2 in supplement form, I don't know of any natto-

derived ones that are economical.

iHerb, for example, carries Jarrow's MK7 K2 for $14.37 for a bottle

of 60 90mcg softgels. That works out to $2.66/mg, which is pretty

terrible.

They also sell the LEF's Super K for $20.21 for a bottle of 90

softgels. Each softgel contains 1mg of K2, but it's a combination of

MK4 and MK7 which I would guess leans heavily towards MK7. Still,

that's under $0.23/mg, which is at least better than Jarrow. The

problem is that each softgel also contains ***9mg*** of K1, and if I

understand your recent paper on K correctly, that K1 is likely much

more bioavailable than food-based K1 and is therefore present at

toxic levels, meaning that the LEF's Super K is a very bad idea.

iHerb does have a fairly decent K2 deal in the form of Carlson's

Vitamin K2. A bottle of 60 5mg caps goes for $15.54, meaning it's

just over $0.05/mg.

By comparison, I found AOR's Peak K2 -- 90 15mg capsules -- for

$42.50 here. <http://www.drhoffman.com/page.cfm/523> That works out

to just over $0.03/mg.

Thorne's K2 is available for about $50 for a bottle of 600 1mg drops,

yielding a price of a little over $0.08/mg. For a little while, an

online store was selling it for about $28, or $0.0467/mg, but I guess

they got in trouble with Thorne, because they don't have any Thorne

products anymore.

Another way to look at the prices would be milligrams per dollar.

Jarrow's MK7 at iHerb: 0.38

LEF's Super-K at iHerb: 4.45

Thorne's K2 Liquid: 12

Carlson's Vitamin K2 at iHerb: 19.31

Thorne's K2 Liquid at the old price: 21.43

AOR's Peak K2 at Hoffman: 31.77

And finally, dollars per 15mg dose.

Jarrow's MK7 at iHerb: $39.92

LEF's Super-K at iHerb: $3.37

Thorne's K2 Liquid: $1.25

Carlson's Vitamin K2 at iHerb: $0.78

Thorne's K2 Liquid at the old price: $0.70

AOR's Peak K2 at Hoffman: $0.47

I don't mean this as an endorsement of any particular store or even

of any particular supplement (frankly I prefer Thorne's because it's

in a base of MCT and mixed tocopherals with nothing else added,

whereas AOR's Peak K2 has all kinds of crap fillers) but there's no

question that of the sites I've checked, the best deal is AOR's Peak

K2 from that jerk Hoffman.

If anyone has better or further information, though, please chime in!

-

[Guest guest]

On 6/19/07, Idol <Idol@...> wrote:

> Is natto actually available in supplement form? I guess I can't

> argue with you on a dose-per-dollar basis when it comes to natto

> itself, though. It's probably the cheapest.

You mean plain natto? Yeah, I think if you were to, say, make it

home-made, it would be incredibly cheap.

> As to doses of K2 in supplement form, I don't know of any natto-

> derived ones that are economical.

Well no but they are the most economical that are not synthetic, and

some people do not want to use synthetic supplements.

> They also sell the LEF's Super K for $20.21 for a bottle of 90

> softgels. Each softgel contains 1mg of K2, but it's a combination of

> MK4 and MK7 which I would guess leans heavily towards MK7. Still,

> that's under $0.23/mg, which is at least better than Jarrow. The

> problem is that each softgel also contains ***9mg*** of K1, and if I

> understand your recent paper on K correctly, that K1 is likely much

> more bioavailable than food-based K1 and is therefore present at

> toxic levels, meaning that the LEF's Super K is a very bad idea.

From one anecdote, I know one person who was using a K1-containing K2

supplement (I think one with much less than this actually), and her

son had food intolerance problems that got worse with it, but they got

incredibly better when they ran out and switched to Thorne. I think

she might be on this list now actually.

> I don't mean this as an endorsement of any particular store or even

> of any particular supplement (frankly I prefer Thorne's because it's

> in a base of MCT and mixed tocopherals with nothing else added,

> whereas AOR's Peak K2 has all kinds of crap fillers) but there's no

> question that of the sites I've checked, the best deal is AOR's Peak

> K2 from that jerk Hoffman.

Cool, thanks for the rundown!

Chris

[Guest guest]

IsThorne's MK4 soy based?

On Jun 18, 2007, at 7:58 AM, Idol wrote:

> Don't you figure it'd be a better bet to buy something that's soy-

> free and contains K2 in the MK4 form?

Parashis

artpages@...

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[Guest guest]

On 6/19/07, Parashis <artpages@...> wrote:

> IsThorne's MK4 soy based?

No, it's synthetic.

Chris

[Guest guest]

I currently buy cultured hand churned butter from our raw milk farmer. Is

this source sufficient or should our family be ordering the butter oil also? Her

butter is a orange- yellow color and has a taste different from store bought

organic butter.

I am also wondering what each persons time commitment to eating in a

nourshing and traditional way. We do not make any flour products at this time

because we do not have a grain mill nor do we buy any. I do make our dairy

products except cheese. I try to make large meals with plenty of leftovers to

economize a little on time. Lots of Organic and grass fed meats, vegetables,

grains, beans and raw dairy and some pasturized cheeses.

I would also love to hear of the health improvement directly experienced by

individuals and to what level you follow Sally Fallons recomendations.

Thank you,

---------------------------------

Don't pick lemons.

See all the new 2007 cars at Autos.

[Guest guest]

On the VitaminK list, folks are finding bad symptoms (presumably from

oxalate dumping) if the dose is increased too rapidly in children.

The Thorne allows more control over the dose in this regard.

Amy

> If anyone has better or further information, though, please chime in!

>

> -

>

>

[Guest guest]

<Ears perking up> That'd be me. I got the Pure Encapsulations

Synergy K, and when I tried to increase the dose to 2 mg K2 (so 1 mg

K1), my poor son was a mess. Like said, I switched to Thorne,

and now my kids are both up to 4 mg per day (the little one doesn't

take capsules so she lucked out in that regard), plus Blue Ice, plus

raw milk.

There's a website about making natto -- it looks much more labor

intensive than kimchi or kraut, if you ask me!

Oh, and my husband said he just sauteed it with onions and served it

on rice. He had been tossing around the idea of making a sort of

succotash with it, I think. Maybe some bacon fat would help it out,

LOL. Take a cue from the Cajuns and use the 'Holy Trinity' and some

lard. We had sushi for Father's Day, and noticed that there is a

natto roll, served with scallions.

Amy

<snip>

> You mean plain natto? Yeah, I think if you were to, say, make it

> home-made, it would be incredibly cheap.

<snip>

> From one anecdote, I know one person who was using a K1-containing K2

> supplement (I think one with much less than this actually), and her

> son had food intolerance problems that got worse with it, but they got

> incredibly better when they ran out and switched to Thorne. I think

> she might be on this list now actually.

[Guest guest]

On Jun 19, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Snider wrote:

> I currently buy cultured hand churned butter from our raw milk farmer.

I have been wondering about cultured butter. Is this a better thing

than just regular raw butter? Should we ask Organic Pastures to culture

some butter? Is it possible to culture your own already formed butter?

Parashis

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