Re: Fish Oils and Food Intolerance (was Food Intolerance Diet questions)

[Guest guest]

Steph,

> The asthma got worse, and I now believe that's because I

> started eating so many salicylates with NT, which we started gung ho

> on 2 1/2 years ago. Before that, for most of my life, I didn't eat

> high salicylate foods - I just didn't like those kinds of foods (well,

> except for tea, which I've always loved! LOL). I do think I had mild

> signs of the asthma throughout my life, like when I went around heated

> swimming pools and hot tubs.

> 2 years ago, I went dairy and gluten free (got tested through

> Enterolab).

Did your dairy and gluten intolerance seem to be precipitated at the

same time? If so, I am having a discussion with someone offlist about

the possible role of EPA from fish oil and cod liver oil causing

dietary intolerances. We've looked at some studies showing that in

mice, inhibitors of the COX2 enzyme, which converts the omega-6

arachidonic acid into hormone metabolites, cause massive villous

atrophy when administered with egg protein, but egg protein causes no

symptoms without the COX2 inhibitors. (Examples of this drug include

all NSAIDs -- aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxyn, etc, as well as the

COX2-specific newer drugs).

Turns out that arachidonic acid is necessary for sealing the tight

junctions in the intestines and preventing immune-mediated villous

atrophy.

But the omega-3 EPA antagnoizes the conversion of arachidonic acid

(AA) to those metabolites, so in high doses it's probably doing the

same thing as the COX2 inhibitor drugs, and leading to food

intolerance.

Many of us have used a lot more cod liver oil than Price considered

safe -- 3/4 tsp per day, in combination with 3/4 teaspoon of butter

oil. His use of generous organ meats and butter in the diet may have

provided sufficient omega-6 arachidonic acid to balance the omega-3

EPA in the cod liver oil.

By far and away the best source of AA is brain. Fish-eating cultures

that Price studied ate FISH HEADS. Which one of us, after switching

to NT, has eaten most of our fish with the heads on?

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Wow

>

> But the omega-3 EPA antagnoizes the conversion of arachidonic acid

> (AA) to those metabolites, so in high doses it's probably doing the

> same thing as the COX2 inhibitor drugs, and leading to food

> intolerance.

I am so glad you shared this information. It is worth looking into

further.

>

> Many of us have used a lot more cod liver oil than Price considered

> safe -- 3/4 tsp per day, in combination with 3/4 teaspoon of butter

> oil. His use of generous organ meats and butter in the diet may have

> provided sufficient omega-6 arachidonic acid to balance the omega-3

> EPA in the cod liver oil.

That is not the case for this dairy/gluten intolerant girl; I have

taken at most 1/2 teaspoon of Blue Ice twice a week. However, I also

don't experience any digestive problems along with my neurological

response to gluten (and dairy is a more insidious thing for me).

Apparently, liver capsules are recommended in EFLF for liver haters.

I am curious if they are really a good substitute for whole food

liver. If they are freeze dried, would all of the nutrients and fatty

acids remain do you think?

>

> By far and away the best source of AA is brain. Fish-eating cultures

> that Price studied ate FISH HEADS. Which one of us, after switching

> to NT, has eaten most of our fish with the heads on?

Ha ha! Well, I eat dried anchovies with the heads on, does that

count? I guess not since they are not my big fish food. How does

fish roe stack up for AA?

Thanks,

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Deanna,

> Ha ha! Well, I eat dried anchovies with the heads on, does that

> count? I guess not since they are not my big fish food.

Yes that would count to whatever extent you eat much of them.

> How does

> fish roe stack up for AA?

I'm not sure. Liver is a good source of AA, but I don't have any

numbers on it for now.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

On 10/27/06, wrote:

> Steph,

>

> > The asthma got worse, and I now believe that's because I

> > started eating so many salicylates with NT, which we started gung ho

> > on 2 1/2 years ago. Before that, for most of my life, I didn't eat

> > high salicylate foods - I just didn't like those kinds of foods (well,

> > except for tea, which I've always loved! LOL). I do think I had mild

> > signs of the asthma throughout my life, like when I went around heated

> > swimming pools and hot tubs.

>

> > 2 years ago, I went dairy and gluten free (got tested through

> > Enterolab).

>

> Did your dairy and gluten intolerance seem to be precipitated at the

> same time?

I think I had issues with dairy my whole life. I had to be given soy

formula as an infant - just found that out recently. I'm actually

wondering here lately if that soy is not a huge cause of my messed up

hormones. Once my mom started giving me milk again, I was pretty much

obsessed with it (probably still am, really, LOL). Most of my diet

from about age 5 until 32 was bread/cereals and dairy (and sugar). I

didn't eat a lot of fruit or veggies. I didn't like meat a whole lot

(my mom isn't the best cook, LOL), but I did eat it - I mean, I wasn't

close to vegetarian or anything like that. I did try to do vegetarian

about 8 years ago, but my DH would have none of it, thank goodness!

My main meats in childhood were hot dogs and bologna. I also ate only

margarine - and plenty of it - until I married a butter eater. I

probably had practically no animal fat most of my life, except for

eggs, which I did eat a fair amount of. Oh, and milk fat. I did at

least insist on sticking with whole milk until my late teen years. I

think I'm going off subject. LOL.

The only sudden change in my health anywhere along the way was the

hives/asthma thing. Well, I did start to have some little things

happen during the 3rd trimester of my pregnancy. I was extremely

irritable. I even had to quit working in my 7th month because I just

wanted to rip people's heads off all the time. In the years after

giving birth I started to have messed up cycles and had two

miscarriages (before the hives/asthma started). I also started to be

really irritable for 2 weeks every month - I mean screaming at

everyone around me irritable. That was after the hives and asthma

started. I've had quite a bit of stress in my life since my son was

born (almost 9 years ago) and I don't know how much that has

contributed to all of this.

>If so, I am having a discussion with someone offlist about

> the possible role of EPA from fish oil and cod liver oil causing

> dietary intolerances. We've looked at some studies showing that in

> mice, inhibitors of the COX2 enzyme, which converts the omega-6

> arachidonic acid into hormone metabolites, cause massive villous

> atrophy when administered with egg protein, but egg protein causes no

> symptoms without the COX2 inhibitors. (Examples of this drug include

> all NSAIDs -- aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxyn, etc, as well as the

> COX2-specific newer drugs).

I took plenty of those drugs growing up - my mom's a pill junkie. :-P

>

> Turns out that arachidonic acid is necessary for sealing the tight

> junctions in the intestines and preventing immune-mediated villous

> atrophy.

>

> But the omega-3 EPA antagnoizes the conversion of arachidonic acid

> (AA) to those metabolites, so in high doses it's probably doing the

> same thing as the COX2 inhibitor drugs, and leading to food

> intolerance.

>

> Many of us have used a lot more cod liver oil than Price considered

> safe -- 3/4 tsp per day, in combination with 3/4 teaspoon of butter

> oil. His use of generous organ meats and butter in the diet may have

> provided sufficient omega-6 arachidonic acid to balance the omega-3

> EPA in the cod liver oil.

I didn't even stat CLO until 2 1/2 years ago and never used much of it

until about a year or 6 months ago when I tried doing a Tbsp. or two a

day for about a month. Before that, my doses were just the daily dose

of 1 tsp. GoL or 1/2 tsp. Blue Ice and even those doses were hit or

miss as far as each day went.

>

> By far and away the best source of AA is brain. Fish-eating cultures

> that Price studied ate FISH HEADS. Which one of us, after switching

> to NT, has eaten most of our fish with the heads on?

>

> Chris

> --

I've eaten those little anchovies, too. LOL. Otherwise, I don't even

really eat a lot of fish. I do have a sheep brain in my freezer.

It's been there for quite some time. LOL. It's still inside the

skull.

Steph

--

http://www.PraiseMoves.com

The Christian Alternative to Yoga

[Guest guest]

>Did your dairy and gluten intolerance seem to be precipitated at the

>same time? If so, I am having a discussion with someone offlist about

>the possible role of EPA from fish oil and cod liver oil causing

>dietary intolerances. We've looked at some studies showing that in

>mice, inhibitors of the COX2 enzyme, which converts the omega-6

>arachidonic acid into hormone metabolites, cause massive villous

>atrophy when administered with egg protein, but egg protein causes no

>symptoms without the COX2 inhibitors. (Examples of this drug include

>all NSAIDs -- aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxyn, etc, as well as the

>COX2-specific newer drugs).

>

>Turns out that arachidonic acid is necessary for sealing the tight

>junctions in the intestines and preventing immune-mediated villous

>atrophy.

>

>But the omega-3 EPA antagnoizes the conversion of arachidonic acid

>(AA) to those metabolites, so in high doses it's probably doing the

>same thing as the COX2 inhibitor drugs, and leading to food

>intolerance.

Would you mind posting some of the studies you're looking at to the list or

send to me privately? This is fascinating and important information. I'd

like to pass it on to my dog health list, as it's quite common these days

for those not feeding commercial foods to supplement with fish oil, not

necessarily to address a specific condition, but just because they've heard

it's healthy.

Suze

[Guest guest]

> Yes that would count to whatever extent you eat much of them.

Well, looky what I found at the Korean market today! If I like these

guys, I will get them weekly. They are roe capelin; now does that

mean they have roe inside of them? The only other information on the

frozen packages is an imported from statement. They look super fresh

with clear eyes and smell like herring. The shop owner says they are

good deep fried.

http://www.sildelaget.no/PelagiskFisk.asp?FishType=Lodde & lang=eng

Fish heads, fish heads

rolly polly fish heads

fish heads, fish heads

eat them up, yum!

> > How does

> > fish roe stack up for AA?

>

> I'm not sure. Liver is a good source of AA, but I don't have any

> numbers on it for now.

That's good to know too. Crunchy whole fish is probably something I

should be eating more often anyway, and for more than the AA.

Now be a nice chap and post those links Suze requested.

Deanna, wondering what Steph will do with her sheep's head, lol

[Guest guest]

>

> That's good to know too. Crunchy whole fish is probably something I

> should be eating more often anyway, and for more than the AA.

According to Sally, they may also be an excellent source of Vit. A.

>

> Deanna, wondering what Steph will do with her sheep's head, lol

>

I'm driving out to Arlington in a few weeks. Want me to bring it to ya?

LOL.

Steph

[Guest guest]

Hi Steph,

> >Crunchy whole fish is probably something I

> > should be eating more often anyway, and for more than the AA.

>

> According to Sally, they may also be an excellent source of Vit. A.

These fish (roe carpelin) were 15 cm long and had a good 7 grams of

roe (aka fish eggs) per piece. They were mild and really good from

head to tail. We all loved them and not all of us are into some of

the more, shall we say, adventurous native fare. A real winner at

$2.79 per five fish pack.

> > Deanna, wondering what Steph will do with her sheep's head, lol

> >

>

> I'm driving out to Arlington in a few weeks. Want me to bring it to

>ya?

>

> LOL.

Actually I would love it. You see, I just got two lambs from my real

local farmers this month, but they are a start up farm and have their

meat procesed by the local butcher. Well, I got no organs at all this

time, cuz they had all these kosher goats going through at the same

time and the guts got mixed up <g>. Plus, I guess there are laws

about what you can take home from the butcher. So I need to get these

farmers to process the meat on site so I can have a head and all the

trimmings.

But you'd better not drive with it. If you get pulled over, you'd be

having a fun time explaining why you are transporting a sheep head

across state lines, hee hee.

Deanna, not far from Arlington

[Guest guest]

Deanna-

> Apparently, liver capsules are recommended in EFLF for liver haters.

> I am curious if they are really a good substitute for whole food

> liver. If they are freeze dried, would all of the nutrients and fatty

> acids remain do you think?

Freeze-dried liver is defatted, so no, it's not quite an ideal

substitute for fresh or frozen liver that's intact.

Better than nothing, though.

-

[Guest guest]

> Freeze-dried liver is defatted, so no, it's not quite an ideal

> substitute for fresh or frozen liver that's intact.

>

> Better than nothing, though.

>

,

Now Foods liver *powder* isn't defatted. no additives either. Not

freeze-dried but low-heat processed. I haven't actually tried eating

any, but I have a jar in the cabinet just because I might need it

someday, right?

http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs & pid=NOW-02450

Who else makes freeze-dried liver besides Dr. Ron?

Teesa B.

[Guest guest]

On 11/18/06, Parashis <artpages@...> wrote:

> Would it be just as good though if you added your own fat? Like butter,

> coconut, olive oil, or lard?

No, that would not improve it at all, because the problem is that the

liver fat is missing, which is unique.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

Would it be just as good though if you added your own fat? Like butter,

coconut, olive oil, or lard?

On Nov 17, 2006, at 7:15 AM, Idol wrote:

> Freeze-dried liver is defatted, so no, it's not quite an ideal

> substitute for fresh or frozen liver that's intact.

Parashis

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