Re: Guidance for minimising amines in foods - nutrition

[Guest guest]

> --- Idol <Idol@> wrote:

> > >I guess

> > >the real question is: can one get optimal nutrition on such a

> > >plan?

> >

> > The magic eight ball says: outlook not good.

>

--- Emma Davies <emma@...> wrote:

> It is completely possible to reach and exceed several times over the

> RDA on every single vitamin on the diet, if enough care is taken.

> Remember: you need to take enough care on any diet to reach your RDA

> of anything.

Emma and ,

About a month ago I posted the " Funny Kind of Diet " from Emma's blog

but I don't think very many people saw it - there were no comments:

/message/85428

I found that using the USDA nutrient data base, this day of food does

meet or exceed the standard RDA's. I can post the spreadsheet I used

for verification to the files section if there is interest. I assume

that this is a FAILSAFE example?

[Guest guest]

> Out of interest, I'd like to know how many people here regularly use

> the USDA database or a program like FitDay to calculate their daily

> vitamin intake?

Emma,

I use FitDay, I'd like to switch to Nutrition Data but I don't care to

re-enter all the data. Some day.

FitDay has really helped me get a clearer picture of what I'm eating

and where I'm coming up short but it is unsettling to put in, say, oh,

any raw food item and have it come back at you with 100 frozen and

fast food meal examples.

I always come up short in vit E, folate and vit K; however, I'm not

sure that's always accurate in regard to the latter two. Since I've

added in a tablespoon of kale each day the vit k is cleared but I am

resisting buying an E supp.

Of course, I used to always come up short in calcium, mag, and c, and

now I supplement, so yay for me and my optimal diet.

I thought wheat germ was unstable--is that not so? I can just

buy-and-eat wheat germ? What precautions--if any--do you take?

Porridge, huh?

And gee, too bad about the bread thing. I was so excited I ordered

four loaves delivered from Grindstone bakery--now what am I gonna do

with them? Better cancel the toffee order, too.

B.

[Guest guest]

On 9/24/06, Emma Davies <emma@...> wrote:

> I am thinking of putting up a tool on the website I'm putting

> together, with all of the junk food cleaned out so it's easier to do

> searches on foods high in nutrients? I wondered if people would be

> interested in customisation/personalisation/storage features, or

> whether basic searches would be enough for people to use it?

I would LOVE a database that did not have fortified junk food in it.

I never calculate by dietary intake of anything, and I don't really

put any faith in these databases anyway. Nevertheless, if I'm doing

some research or writing an article and there is nothing better, I use

the USDA database, and it is a horrible pain to try to filter out all

the junk food. What do you mean by

" customisation/personalization/storage features " ?

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

,

> I always come up short in vit E, folate and vit K; however, I'm not

> sure that's always accurate in regard to the latter two.

If it gives you a reading for " vitamin K " at all, it isn't precise

enough for the accuracy to matter, because vitamin K1 and vitamin K2

should be seen as distinct vitamins.

> Since I've

> added in a tablespoon of kale each day the vit k is cleared but I am

> resisting buying an E supp.

No, it isn't, because kale does not contain any vitamin K2, and its

vitamin K1 is not very absorbable. Vegetables yield about 5% of their

vitamin K1 if eaten plain and about 10-15% of their vitamin K1 if

eaten with several tablespoons of fat.

Vitamin K2 is found in grass-fed dairyfat, non-defatted bone, brains,

pancreatic glands, salivary glands, certain grass-fed eggs and various

other animal fat products. It is contained in lactic acid fermented

plants as well, although it is a chemically different form (or forms,

rather) of K2, the differential efficacy of which has not to my

knowledge been tested.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

> If it gives you a reading for " vitamin K " at all, it isn't precise

> enough for the accuracy to matter, because vitamin K1 and vitamin K2

> should be seen as distinct vitamins.

....

> No, it isn't, because kale does not contain any vitamin K2, and its

> vitamin K1 is not very absorbable. Vegetables yield about 5% of their

> vitamin K1 if eaten plain and about 10-15% of their vitamin K1 if

> eaten with several tablespoons of fat.

>

> Vitamin K2 is found in grass-fed dairyfat, non-defatted bone, brains,

> pancreatic glands, salivary glands, certain grass-fed eggs and various

> other animal fat products. It is contained in lactic acid fermented

> plants as well, although it is a chemically different form (or forms,

> rather) of K2, the differential efficacy of which has not to my

> knowledge been tested.

>

What I was trying to say was that I doubt FitDay accurately tallies

the vit K in foods, thus even if FitDay indicates I don't get enough,

does not make it so. But thanks for being more specific.

B.

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> I've never tried it, but my parents used to freeze loaves...

>

Double bag them with another bread loaf bag and they will be fine. I

freeze bread all the time.

[Guest guest]

On 9/24/06, downwardog7 <illneverbecool@...> wrote:

> What I was trying to say was that I doubt FitDay accurately tallies

> the vit K in foods, thus even if FitDay indicates I don't get enough,

> does not make it so. But thanks for being more specific.

Ah, ok. Wasn't sure if you were aware of the distinction though, and

thought in any case others wouldn't be.

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com

[Guest guest]

> Ah, ok. Wasn't sure if you were aware of the distinction though, and

> thought in any case others wouldn't be.

>

My apologies for coming off cranky; that was great info, generously

given, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

--- Emma Davies <emma@...> wrote:

> Out of interest, I'd like to know how many people here regularly use

> the USDA database or a program like FitDay to calculate their daily

> vitamin intake?

>

> I am thinking of putting up a tool on the website I'm putting

> together, with all of the junk food cleaned out so it's easier to do

> searches on foods high in nutrients? I wondered if people would be

> interested in customisation/personalisation/storage features, or

> whether basic searches would be enough for people to use it?

Emma, great idea but I'm sure it would be a lot of work to make an

easy-to-use web tool. Have you seen the Nutrition Data web site? I

posted about it most recently about a month ago (including link):

/message/85393

It's very fast and has nice graphics, but pretty much follows

traditional low-fat anti-saturated fat thinking for it's

recommendations (which of course can be ignored). It appears to be a

web-based data base query tool. Looks like they downloaded the USDA

data base and embellished it. You can even add your own food entries

if you have the nutrient data. My biggest problem is that many of the

foods I eat are not in the USDA data base, like raw milk and cream,

kefir, grass fed beef, free-range chicken and eggs, etc. and I haven't

run across any detailed nutrient data for these foods. I had to find

USDA substitutes for these to get a rough idea.

You may already know that you can download the entire USDA data base

as an Access data base. I downloaded it a few weeks ago and after

expansion it's around 88 mb. I don't know Access very well, so I

didn't get very far with it. I opted instead, just for grins, to copy

and paste data into an Excel workbook that I posted in the files

section - " Dietary Nutrition Calculator " . The hardest part in this

approach is getting the data into an Excel flat-file, because each

food item has differing numbers of nutrients listed.

If you make a web tool, perhaps you can add data on anti-nutrients as

well - to help us get a handle on dosages consumed? Oh, and how about

info on bio-availability of nutrients?

<OK, I guess you don't have to include the kitchen sink - just

wishfull thinking on my part>

[Guest guest]

Emma,

> This whole thing came about because I was so sick of reading biased

> mainstream nutrition " advice " proclaiming nonsense like " spinach is a

> really good source of calcium " , or " vegetable sources of protein are

> superior to animal sources " , or " eat orange fruit and vegetables for

> vitamin A " , I thought if I could put something together based on the

> actual physical data, with advice about bioavailability,

> anti-nutrients and fat soluble activators, it would be the ultimate

> way to debunk the people putting out such rubbish.

How do you plan to represent the carotene content as vitamin A? USDA

started using retinol equivalents recently, and it relies on some

horrid assumptions (something like 1:6 conversion).

Chris

--

The Truth About Cholesterol

Find Out What Your Doctor Isn't Telling You:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com