Re: New and Questions.

[Guest guest]

Does

negative antibodies mean truly negative?

_______________________

Not at all. First off antibodies wax and wane and are often not

detected even though they exist. Second, there are antibodies out

there doing harm to thyroids, thyroid function in the cells, and

thyroid hormones themselves that they do not have tests for. There

are many many types of antibodies and only a few tests.

________________

Your labs have that classic low middle look of countless people who

have posted on this site who are still suffering. In the past,

thyroid doses were adjusted by how the patient felt, and patients

got treatment much sooner and so suffered with fewer health

problems. I was in the low middle range and was sick sick sick. My

T4 was at the low end of the range and T3 just around the middle of

the range when my health declined to the bottom. None of the labs

matter if you have antibodies in the blood taking hormone out of the

system before it has a chance to work for you or if your body

naturally needs lots of thyroid. Many healthy prople have thyroid

levels outside the so called " normal " range and would be ill on

anything less. Thyroid needs of people vary hugely.

In Wenrer and ingbar's " The Thyroid " they talk about patients in

your situation having the worst time because of the up and down

nature of thyroid output. You might be able to help your situation

just by going on sufficient levels of thyroid hormone replacement.

If you suppress your own thyroid enough, this usually gets rid of

the antibodies over time and slows damage to the thyroid. In fact

treating a person with auto-immune thyroid disease with sufficient

thyroid for 6 to 8 years can actually cure them. About 11% of these

types of patients can be cured by getting treatment according to

Werner and Ingbar. By suppressing your own thyroid, you suppress the

production of antibodies.

It seems you have such a difficult problem. You could seek out other

doctors untill you find one who will treat you. But, most doctors

under treat today and low doses of thyroid often suppress the

pitutary and this slows your own thyroid down and the result is that

you can become more hypo on low dose therapy. At least 90% of

doctors only use Synthroid. Synthroid is not very effective for

situations where there are conversion problems, which some auto-

immune diseases cause. Synthroid is quite inactive and depends on

the body to convert it to the other thyroid hormones needed to give

energy.

Anyway, my opinion is that if you could find a doctor who would

prescribe Armour thyroid or another natural and would allow you to

get your dose up to at least 3 grains or to where you feel good and

hopefully to suppress your thyroid enough to get rid of the up and

down thing, you might be helped. In Graves disease, or auto-immune

hyperthryoidism, the body is producing antibodies that behave like

TSH hormone from the pituitary. So, these antibodies are faking the

thyroid into thinking it needs to make more hormone. If you shut

down the process in the thyroid that triggers the attack of these

antibodies, the hyper symptoms should abate. At the same time if you

get sufficient thyroid hormones replaced, this should help with the

hypo symptoms.

Tish

[Guest guest]

Hi Tish

------------------

> hopefully to suppress your thyroid enough to get rid of the up and

> down thing, you might be helped. In Graves disease, or auto-immune

> hyperthryoidism, the body is producing antibodies that behave like

> TSH hormone from the pituitary. So, these antibodies are faking

the

> thyroid into thinking it needs to make more hormone. If you shut

> down the process in the thyroid that triggers the attack of these

> antibodies, the hyper symptoms should abate. At the same time if

you

> get sufficient thyroid hormones replaced, this should help with

the

> hypo symptoms.

------------------------

You sound a lot like the last doc I went to in order to get a second

opinion. He did not see the latest set of test results, but said

that I should know of this method of treatment to calm the thyroid.

He was also one of the nicest docs I had met so far .

Unfortunately he is also retiring soon and so could not treat me. I

guess I should keep searching.

In any case, thanks for getting back to me. This group is one of the

reasons that I have not written off my symptoms yet and just

addressed the depression part of it (as I was tempted to do when I

started crying in the midst of a conversation. That is just not me!).

thanks,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Arthy,

You have been doing some bouncing...

With the antibodies low.... that brings some thoughts to mind....

Antibody levels do fluctuate, that is part of the disorder.. the rise and fall of antibody levels during the natural process as they attack the gland... so we can't rule that out completely.

Have you been checked for nodules? Masses in the gland? A nodule can produce excessive amounts of hormone, causing a hyper state..... then back off and leave you with a gland that may not be producing adequate amounts.

If you've been having stages of severe hyper it's possible to develop partial hormone resistance....

Long before the lab tests came into being folks were treated according to their symptoms... have you traced your pulse, waking temp or respiration to see how your body is reacting from day to day? Is there a pattern to what your body is doing. Graves also involves an antibody.

How is your weight? Stable, fluctuating? And your appetite... pretty stable or swings between ravenous and not....?

You've got more going on here and it might help to pick through some things and see what comes up....

The thyroid affects so many of the body's systems that it's sometimes hard to pinpoint what is all going on.....

Tell us a bit about your sleep. Do you fall asleep easily? Wake during the night? Wake feeling refreshed, or not? Do you dream, have nightmares... nothing?

When do you go in for your next labs? I'm suspecting that you're going to have another hyper swing over the next few months... IMHO, of course.

How old are you?

Topper ()

*15 years post RAI (to halt thyroid storm), no remaining thyroid function. Synthetic thyroid for the first 10 odd years, self medicating with natural thyroid for 26 months*

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 03:04:23 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi,I have been lurking around for some time after being diagnosed with thyroiditis (transient). According to my latest tests, I am euthyroid. I still have symptoms and now am thoroughly confused. Any opinions/inputs would be appreciated. I was first diagnosed hyperthyroid by my primary care physician in Nov '03. From Jan'04 to April '04 my TSH bounced around and I felt mostly hypo. I was sick all the time and cranky. Since my antibodies came back negative the endo decided that I was fine and that this was a one time thing. I was on propranalol till early Jan but no other medication.After this, May and June was extremely good ( I went on a vacation in early May).In July, it felt the rollercoaster was starting all over again. I was also extremely depressed (still am though just a bit better) this time around. So I got a second opinion. This doc said that it definitely sounded like my thyroid, and as it seems like my PMS lasts atleast two weeks, it was most likely the thyroid. He was of the opinion that the antibodies wax and wane and that I have definitely not seen the end of this. My strong family history (my dad had Graves) is one of the reasons that he was so sure about it. My PCP tested me and everything came back all within range though I feel far from normal. My results areDec `03TSH < 0.01 ( 0.3 – 5)T3 TOT 290 ( 60 – 160)T3 Uptake 42 ( 22-35)T4 T 23 (4.6 – 12.5)FT3 8.84 (1.71 – 3.71)FT4 3.60 (0.7 – 1.48)Thyroglobulin AB < 20 ( 0-40)TPO AB 23.9 (5-35)Thyroid uptake and scan results : 6hrs is 9.4% (5-22)24 hrs 19.8 (11-36)Jan `04TSH 6.03FT4 1.0 (0.8-1.8)Apr `04TSH 2.46 (0.4-5)FT4 1.2 (0.8 – 1.8)Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<40)TPO AB 20.1 (<35)Aug `04FT4 1.2 (0.8-1.8)FT3 3.0 (2.3-4.2)TSH 1.73 So as far as my doctors are concerned I am euthyroid.In some of the posts I have read, it states that FT3 is best in the high normal range. Is that when antibodies are present? Does negative antibodies mean truly negative? Is there any other antibody test that would be useful?My primary care physician is mostly open to suggestions and treating me although my endo is less so. If I can rule the thyroid out, I can look to other reasons for me feeling the way I do! (This mail turned out to be longer than I thought so my apologies )Thanks,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

To answer your questions:

I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that

I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

really underweight for me anyway).

I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I

was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the

thyroid.

The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near

my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

My symptoms these days:

Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

month!

Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my

heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

Muscle aches

Chest pain (gas?)

My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.

I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).

Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am

hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these

days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps

out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that

respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

bouncing).

I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

before my periods.

Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do

that now.

I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

anymore.

You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests

will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what

I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms?

Would the TSH elevate in this case?

I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs

before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).

I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I

think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay for

that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

covered most of my tests and doc visits..

I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still

willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

heard me say that two years ago!

Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

thanks,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

To answer your questions:

I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that

I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

really underweight for me anyway).

I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I

was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the

thyroid.

The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near

my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

My symptoms these days:

Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

month!

Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my

heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

Muscle aches

Chest pain (gas?)

My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.

I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).

Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am

hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these

days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps

out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that

respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

bouncing).

I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

before my periods.

Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do

that now.

I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

anymore.

You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests

will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what

I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms?

Would the TSH elevate in this case?

I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs

before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).

I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I

think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay for

that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

covered most of my tests and doc visits..

I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still

willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

heard me say that two years ago!

Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

thanks,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

To answer your questions:

I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that

I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

really underweight for me anyway).

I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I

was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the

thyroid.

The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near

my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

My symptoms these days:

Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

month!

Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my

heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

Muscle aches

Chest pain (gas?)

My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.

I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).

Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am

hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these

days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps

out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that

respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

bouncing).

I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

before my periods.

Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do

that now.

I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

anymore.

You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests

will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what

I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms?

Would the TSH elevate in this case?

I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs

before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).

I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I

think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay for

that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

covered most of my tests and doc visits..

I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still

willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

heard me say that two years ago!

Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

thanks,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

We learn a lot from the silliest details and ramblings around here... so don't worry about length... You'll see... mine turn into Novellas sometimes!!! hehehehehehe

Please don't be angry with me.. I just want to share some thoughts with you... then you can decided how those ideas pertain to you.... we've found out that so much of how our bodies react to bad hormone levels is very individual.. so the more information - volleying of ideas back and forth... the easier it is to get a clearer picture.

Vegetarianism..... this could be part of the problem... do you do a lot of soy based protein sources and such? Soy is BAD BAD BAD for thyroid. It binds with hormone making it unusable, causing extra stress/load on the thyroid gland. Depending on the health of the gland itself how much it affects you is very individual.

There are also amino acids in meat proteins that folks need. Our bodies use proteins that we take in as well as amino acids in the foods that we eat to make other proteins that we need. If your body is having difficulty producing what it needs you'll end up being deficient. There are tests available to check for protein deficiencies... I was found to be deficient in one of the amino acids as a child and told that I should always be sure to eat enough meat to compensate.

I went into thyroid storm in my early thirties (where the gland just goes nuts and starts pumping out hormone with no controls or checks) I had RAI to kill the gland to stop the storm and then spent the next two years with a fantastic endo, a teaching doctor, that had student docs come in to examine me and learn about thyroid conditions. They followed me from thyroid storm, just after the RAI, and as my body slowed over the next months through hyper, normal, hypo and then severely hypo.

She and I talked about a lot of things... among them my amino acid problem and the need for complete proteins, meat and vegetable. NOT to eat soy anymore (as my thyroid levels increased I suddenly developed a passion for roasted soy nuts.. I ate them ALL the time. My body craved the soy in an attempt to protect me from the excess hormone). Once my thyroid was dead, and no longer producing, the soy would have been binding with my medication, messing up my dosing.

For someone with a thyroid that still functions... the soy binds with the hormone causing the gland to kick up production.

You are showing symptoms of adrenal fatigue.. the salt cravings, the sleep patterns.... the not really good dreaming... I went from a great dreamer to someone that had flashback nightmares to someone that had nothing.... as I started on adrenal support I sleep fantastic now, no more insomnia and I wake feeling rested and ready to start the day, and my dreams are back.... Back to going to bed with an idea for a dream and then spending the night exploring that dream...

So... you're levels are showing excess hormone, you are showing symptoms that are on the lists for both low thyroid and adrenal fatigue, and your are showing symptoms of adrenal fatigue. So my brain is thinking that you have a combination of the two.... but neither are REALLY major yet.

Have they tested you for antibodies? I can't remember if you said.....

You had a good spring, your vacation... did your diet shift during that time? I say that not to be weird... but my diet changed a lot as my hyper increased. I developed cravings for the strangest things. High calorie content (I was over 25,000 calories per day, no, not a typo twenty five thousand calories per day) and ate a wide range of foods, sweets, meats, vegies and tons of fruit. I was told that the varied cravings were my body hollering for nutrients that it needed to keep from starving to death. My metabolic rate was so high that my body was starting to eat itself. I was a body builder. First I lost all my fat.. then it started eating muscle and then it goes for body organs to get nutrients... being in storm is NOT a fun thing.

Our bodies give us clues, but it's not always easy to understand what it's saying, to help us to help.

Ramble for a bit with us.... any goofy little thing that comes to mind that has changed for you. Need to exercise, cravings for foods that you didnt' have before, or that cycle. Changes in your period. Changes in your skin.

Thyroid resistance can be tested. Some body jump in here... My mind isn't coming up with how they do that......

My hyper started, they think, when I hit puberty... as the years went by it slowly increased. All this was based on what my endo and I pieced together about my past. Eating habits, exercise fanaticism, etc. Eventually my thyroid stormed. I was told at the time that it was genetic. My scan showed a perfectly healthy thyroid gland that was twice normal size. Since then I've pieced a lot more of puzzle together. From blood tests that my full brother had, 20/20 hindsight of my mother's symptoms, and meeting my half sibs, two of whom were also hyper in the same way that I was. We are TSH resistant. So with no TSH levels to guide our thyroids we gradually became more and more hyper.... the other two had better docs. One had surgery, partial thyroidectomy and is now doing fine on Synthroid. The other had medication to slow her gland down, and is only mildly hypo and now on Synthroid and not doing so well, she has a lot of chemical dependency problems (which are often seen in folks with mild hypo).

Do any of your family members have thyroid problems or other autoimmune problems?

I think I'll stop for now, and see what you think about what I've brought up... see how any of it may pertain to you, your thoughts and feelings.

You still have some time to see what tests they are planning and seeing if you can add some that are missing... to get to the bottom of what is going on with you... Your situation, for sure, is going to be an interesting one to puzzle out.... I hope that you'll let us help, we'll be learning from each other.

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:08:06 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi Topper,I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .To answer your questions:I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125 pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was really underweight for me anyway).I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the thyroid. The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).My symptoms these days:Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of month!Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.Muscle achesChest pain (gas?)My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS. Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make sense?). These days I want more salt on everything. My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my bouncing).I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV before my periods.Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do that now.I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house anymore.You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms? Would the TSH elevate in this case?I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done just to see what my "normal" levels are (even if I have to pay for that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has covered most of my tests and doc visits..I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have heard me say that two years ago! Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).thanks,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

We learn a lot from the silliest details and ramblings around here... so don't worry about length... You'll see... mine turn into Novellas sometimes!!! hehehehehehe

Please don't be angry with me.. I just want to share some thoughts with you... then you can decided how those ideas pertain to you.... we've found out that so much of how our bodies react to bad hormone levels is very individual.. so the more information - volleying of ideas back and forth... the easier it is to get a clearer picture.

Vegetarianism..... this could be part of the problem... do you do a lot of soy based protein sources and such? Soy is BAD BAD BAD for thyroid. It binds with hormone making it unusable, causing extra stress/load on the thyroid gland. Depending on the health of the gland itself how much it affects you is very individual.

There are also amino acids in meat proteins that folks need. Our bodies use proteins that we take in as well as amino acids in the foods that we eat to make other proteins that we need. If your body is having difficulty producing what it needs you'll end up being deficient. There are tests available to check for protein deficiencies... I was found to be deficient in one of the amino acids as a child and told that I should always be sure to eat enough meat to compensate.

I went into thyroid storm in my early thirties (where the gland just goes nuts and starts pumping out hormone with no controls or checks) I had RAI to kill the gland to stop the storm and then spent the next two years with a fantastic endo, a teaching doctor, that had student docs come in to examine me and learn about thyroid conditions. They followed me from thyroid storm, just after the RAI, and as my body slowed over the next months through hyper, normal, hypo and then severely hypo.

She and I talked about a lot of things... among them my amino acid problem and the need for complete proteins, meat and vegetable. NOT to eat soy anymore (as my thyroid levels increased I suddenly developed a passion for roasted soy nuts.. I ate them ALL the time. My body craved the soy in an attempt to protect me from the excess hormone). Once my thyroid was dead, and no longer producing, the soy would have been binding with my medication, messing up my dosing.

For someone with a thyroid that still functions... the soy binds with the hormone causing the gland to kick up production.

You are showing symptoms of adrenal fatigue.. the salt cravings, the sleep patterns.... the not really good dreaming... I went from a great dreamer to someone that had flashback nightmares to someone that had nothing.... as I started on adrenal support I sleep fantastic now, no more insomnia and I wake feeling rested and ready to start the day, and my dreams are back.... Back to going to bed with an idea for a dream and then spending the night exploring that dream...

So... you're levels are showing excess hormone, you are showing symptoms that are on the lists for both low thyroid and adrenal fatigue, and your are showing symptoms of adrenal fatigue. So my brain is thinking that you have a combination of the two.... but neither are REALLY major yet.

Have they tested you for antibodies? I can't remember if you said.....

You had a good spring, your vacation... did your diet shift during that time? I say that not to be weird... but my diet changed a lot as my hyper increased. I developed cravings for the strangest things. High calorie content (I was over 25,000 calories per day, no, not a typo twenty five thousand calories per day) and ate a wide range of foods, sweets, meats, vegies and tons of fruit. I was told that the varied cravings were my body hollering for nutrients that it needed to keep from starving to death. My metabolic rate was so high that my body was starting to eat itself. I was a body builder. First I lost all my fat.. then it started eating muscle and then it goes for body organs to get nutrients... being in storm is NOT a fun thing.

Our bodies give us clues, but it's not always easy to understand what it's saying, to help us to help.

Ramble for a bit with us.... any goofy little thing that comes to mind that has changed for you. Need to exercise, cravings for foods that you didnt' have before, or that cycle. Changes in your period. Changes in your skin.

Thyroid resistance can be tested. Some body jump in here... My mind isn't coming up with how they do that......

My hyper started, they think, when I hit puberty... as the years went by it slowly increased. All this was based on what my endo and I pieced together about my past. Eating habits, exercise fanaticism, etc. Eventually my thyroid stormed. I was told at the time that it was genetic. My scan showed a perfectly healthy thyroid gland that was twice normal size. Since then I've pieced a lot more of puzzle together. From blood tests that my full brother had, 20/20 hindsight of my mother's symptoms, and meeting my half sibs, two of whom were also hyper in the same way that I was. We are TSH resistant. So with no TSH levels to guide our thyroids we gradually became more and more hyper.... the other two had better docs. One had surgery, partial thyroidectomy and is now doing fine on Synthroid. The other had medication to slow her gland down, and is only mildly hypo and now on Synthroid and not doing so well, she has a lot of chemical dependency problems (which are often seen in folks with mild hypo).

Do any of your family members have thyroid problems or other autoimmune problems?

I think I'll stop for now, and see what you think about what I've brought up... see how any of it may pertain to you, your thoughts and feelings.

You still have some time to see what tests they are planning and seeing if you can add some that are missing... to get to the bottom of what is going on with you... Your situation, for sure, is going to be an interesting one to puzzle out.... I hope that you'll let us help, we'll be learning from each other.

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:08:06 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi Topper,I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .To answer your questions:I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125 pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was really underweight for me anyway).I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the thyroid. The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).My symptoms these days:Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of month!Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.Muscle achesChest pain (gas?)My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS. Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make sense?). These days I want more salt on everything. My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my bouncing).I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV before my periods.Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do that now.I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house anymore.You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms? Would the TSH elevate in this case?I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done just to see what my "normal" levels are (even if I have to pay for that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has covered most of my tests and doc visits..I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have heard me say that two years ago! Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).thanks,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Arthy

Thyroid is definitely your problem, but I'm not sure at this point which

form of it. It's looking like Hashimoto's Disease, with the bounding around

effect AND it looks like your Antithyroglobulin Antibody is trying to ease

it's way up, though it's negative by as far as they look for antibodies in

the blood. The other antibody simply hasn't made it's debut yet, IMHO, but

I've got a feeling it will. Graves can make it's first debut in this way

too, and some people have both diseases, eventually, if not already. What

are those other antibodies, Topper? The ones that are with the stimulating

part of the program? I think that they use those more often than not, to

diagnose Graves. You've definitely been very hypo there, at one point, and

it looks like the fun is just on the beginning. This is how my labs

probably would have looked, had any doctors paid any attention to my pleas

for help, yrs ago, when I was suffering terrible anxiety attacks, brain fog,

and running a track like a hamster on a wheel. I have Hashi's definitely,

and may have had Graves, but may never know for sure.

New and Questions.

> Hi,

>

> I have been lurking around for some time after being diagnosed with

> thyroiditis (transient). According to my latest tests, I am

> euthyroid. I still have symptoms and now am thoroughly confused. Any

> opinions/inputs would be appreciated.

>

> I was first diagnosed hyperthyroid by my primary care physician in

> Nov '03. From Jan'04 to April '04 my TSH bounced around and I felt

> mostly hypo. I was sick all the time and cranky. Since my

> antibodies came back negative the endo decided that I was fine and

> that this was a one time thing. I was on propranalol till early Jan

> but no other medication.

>

> After this, May and June was extremely good ( I went on a vacation

> in early May).

>

> In July, it felt the rollercoaster was starting all over again. I

> was also extremely depressed (still am though just a bit better)

> this time around. So I got a second opinion. This doc said that it

> definitely sounded like my thyroid, and as it seems like my PMS

> lasts atleast two weeks, it was most likely the thyroid. He was of

> the opinion that the antibodies wax and wane and that I have

> definitely not seen the end of this. My strong family history (my

> dad had Graves) is one of the reasons that he was so sure about it.

> My PCP tested me and everything came back all within range though I

> feel far from normal.

>

> My results are

>

> Dec `03

>

> TSH < 0.01 ( 0.3 - 5)

> T3 TOT 290 ( 60 - 160)

> T3 Uptake 42 ( 22-35)

> T4 T 23 (4.6 - 12.5)

> FT3 8.84 (1.71 - 3.71)

> FT4 3.60 (0.7 - 1.48)

> Thyroglobulin AB < 20 ( 0-40)

> TPO AB 23.9 (5-35)

>

> Thyroid uptake and scan results :

> 6hrs is 9.4% (5-22)

> 24 hrs 19.8 (11-36)

>

> Jan `04

> TSH 6.03

> FT4 1.0 (0.8-1.8)

>

> Apr `04

>

> TSH 2.46 (0.4-5)

> FT4 1.2 (0.8 - 1.8)

> Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<40)

> TPO AB 20.1 (<35)

>

> Aug `04

> FT4 1.2 (0.8-1.8)

> FT3 3.0 (2.3-4.2)

> TSH 1.73

>

> So as far as my doctors are concerned I am euthyroid.

>

> In some of the posts I have read, it states that FT3 is best in the

> high normal range. Is that when antibodies are present? Does

> negative antibodies mean truly negative? Is there any other antibody

> test that would be useful?

>

> My primary care physician is mostly open to suggestions and treating

> me although my endo is less so. If I can rule the thyroid out, I can

> look to other reasons for me feeling the way I do! (This mail turned

> out to be longer than I thought so my apologies )

>

>

> Thanks,

> Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Arthy

Thyroid is definitely your problem, but I'm not sure at this point which

form of it. It's looking like Hashimoto's Disease, with the bounding around

effect AND it looks like your Antithyroglobulin Antibody is trying to ease

it's way up, though it's negative by as far as they look for antibodies in

the blood. The other antibody simply hasn't made it's debut yet, IMHO, but

I've got a feeling it will. Graves can make it's first debut in this way

too, and some people have both diseases, eventually, if not already. What

are those other antibodies, Topper? The ones that are with the stimulating

part of the program? I think that they use those more often than not, to

diagnose Graves. You've definitely been very hypo there, at one point, and

it looks like the fun is just on the beginning. This is how my labs

probably would have looked, had any doctors paid any attention to my pleas

for help, yrs ago, when I was suffering terrible anxiety attacks, brain fog,

and running a track like a hamster on a wheel. I have Hashi's definitely,

and may have had Graves, but may never know for sure.

New and Questions.

> Hi,

>

> I have been lurking around for some time after being diagnosed with

> thyroiditis (transient). According to my latest tests, I am

> euthyroid. I still have symptoms and now am thoroughly confused. Any

> opinions/inputs would be appreciated.

>

> I was first diagnosed hyperthyroid by my primary care physician in

> Nov '03. From Jan'04 to April '04 my TSH bounced around and I felt

> mostly hypo. I was sick all the time and cranky. Since my

> antibodies came back negative the endo decided that I was fine and

> that this was a one time thing. I was on propranalol till early Jan

> but no other medication.

>

> After this, May and June was extremely good ( I went on a vacation

> in early May).

>

> In July, it felt the rollercoaster was starting all over again. I

> was also extremely depressed (still am though just a bit better)

> this time around. So I got a second opinion. This doc said that it

> definitely sounded like my thyroid, and as it seems like my PMS

> lasts atleast two weeks, it was most likely the thyroid. He was of

> the opinion that the antibodies wax and wane and that I have

> definitely not seen the end of this. My strong family history (my

> dad had Graves) is one of the reasons that he was so sure about it.

> My PCP tested me and everything came back all within range though I

> feel far from normal.

>

> My results are

>

> Dec `03

>

> TSH < 0.01 ( 0.3 - 5)

> T3 TOT 290 ( 60 - 160)

> T3 Uptake 42 ( 22-35)

> T4 T 23 (4.6 - 12.5)

> FT3 8.84 (1.71 - 3.71)

> FT4 3.60 (0.7 - 1.48)

> Thyroglobulin AB < 20 ( 0-40)

> TPO AB 23.9 (5-35)

>

> Thyroid uptake and scan results :

> 6hrs is 9.4% (5-22)

> 24 hrs 19.8 (11-36)

>

> Jan `04

> TSH 6.03

> FT4 1.0 (0.8-1.8)

>

> Apr `04

>

> TSH 2.46 (0.4-5)

> FT4 1.2 (0.8 - 1.8)

> Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<40)

> TPO AB 20.1 (<35)

>

> Aug `04

> FT4 1.2 (0.8-1.8)

> FT3 3.0 (2.3-4.2)

> TSH 1.73

>

> So as far as my doctors are concerned I am euthyroid.

>

> In some of the posts I have read, it states that FT3 is best in the

> high normal range. Is that when antibodies are present? Does

> negative antibodies mean truly negative? Is there any other antibody

> test that would be useful?

>

> My primary care physician is mostly open to suggestions and treating

> me although my endo is less so. If I can rule the thyroid out, I can

> look to other reasons for me feeling the way I do! (This mail turned

> out to be longer than I thought so my apologies )

>

>

> Thanks,

> Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I think I did increase soy intake around june (discovered a new

shake which has soy protien in it). The funny thing is I do crave

that shake. I get in from work or gym in the evenings and regardless

of whats waiting I need to have atleast a little of it (maybe its

the honey in it I crave). Normal intake for me otherwise is soy in

chinese/thai food about 4 times a month. I guess I should

experiment with stopping that. I think mostly my stress levels

reduced in May and June which is why I had a good spring.

Oh, I dont have hyper FT3 and FT4 levels at this point. Right now,

they are just below midrange (both).

FT3 : 3.0 (2.3-4.2)

FT4 : 1.2 (0.8-1.8)

TSH : 1.73

Antibodies came back negative :

TPO AB 20.1 (<35)

Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<41)

The test was done once in Dec'03 and once in

Random cortisol check : 10.7 (3.0 - 17.0)

Adrenal issues were ruled out because of this (I think!).

Total protein : 8.2 (6.0 - 8.3)

When I was hyper last year it was 9.0

I dont know if this is relevant, but my Total protien always comes

out to be close to top of the range or just over.

Family history:

My dad had Graves Disease (so there is a history there). I dont know

about his parents and siblings. As far as I know they do not seem to

have any thyroid problems.

My protein intake normally comes from beans/ a variety of split

peas/yoghurt (lots of it: that is another thing I crave)/cheese

(love it actually). My B12 has always been fine (my PCP is almost

always surprised by this).

To some extent I am a vegetarian because I was raised a vegetarian

and then did not want to change it. But at this point, I think a

change in diet would just cause more havoc than anything else (I

toyed with the idea for a while in March when my muscles were so

weak after all the bouncing).

My periods are more long drawn these days : 5 days of spotting and

two days normal bleeding. I think things changed over a long period

of time from a " it happens when it happens " when I was 20

(absolutely no PMS then) to this now so I did not notice the change

till last year when my doc actually asked me the question.

Oh and I dont have any kids.

Things got pretty stressful at work around July and I think thats

what triggered of the latest slew of symptoms.

anyways, I am going to try and get to work now (my car conked out on

me last night).

take care,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I think I did increase soy intake around june (discovered a new

shake which has soy protien in it). The funny thing is I do crave

that shake. I get in from work or gym in the evenings and regardless

of whats waiting I need to have atleast a little of it (maybe its

the honey in it I crave). Normal intake for me otherwise is soy in

chinese/thai food about 4 times a month. I guess I should

experiment with stopping that. I think mostly my stress levels

reduced in May and June which is why I had a good spring.

Oh, I dont have hyper FT3 and FT4 levels at this point. Right now,

they are just below midrange (both).

FT3 : 3.0 (2.3-4.2)

FT4 : 1.2 (0.8-1.8)

TSH : 1.73

Antibodies came back negative :

TPO AB 20.1 (<35)

Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<41)

The test was done once in Dec'03 and once in

Random cortisol check : 10.7 (3.0 - 17.0)

Adrenal issues were ruled out because of this (I think!).

Total protein : 8.2 (6.0 - 8.3)

When I was hyper last year it was 9.0

I dont know if this is relevant, but my Total protien always comes

out to be close to top of the range or just over.

Family history:

My dad had Graves Disease (so there is a history there). I dont know

about his parents and siblings. As far as I know they do not seem to

have any thyroid problems.

My protein intake normally comes from beans/ a variety of split

peas/yoghurt (lots of it: that is another thing I crave)/cheese

(love it actually). My B12 has always been fine (my PCP is almost

always surprised by this).

To some extent I am a vegetarian because I was raised a vegetarian

and then did not want to change it. But at this point, I think a

change in diet would just cause more havoc than anything else (I

toyed with the idea for a while in March when my muscles were so

weak after all the bouncing).

My periods are more long drawn these days : 5 days of spotting and

two days normal bleeding. I think things changed over a long period

of time from a " it happens when it happens " when I was 20

(absolutely no PMS then) to this now so I did not notice the change

till last year when my doc actually asked me the question.

Oh and I dont have any kids.

Things got pretty stressful at work around July and I think thats

what triggered of the latest slew of symptoms.

anyways, I am going to try and get to work now (my car conked out on

me last night).

take care,

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

,

Do you mean TSI? When I asked, my endo said that it was not for

diagnosis but tested during treatment (?). I let it be at that

because I had no energy to argue with her at that point.

I am lucky to have the PCP I have. She started testing for thyroid

when she saw my dry marked up skin and family history and bingo it

came back hyper the second time around.

When I see the next endo on my list I am going to ask for these

tests and hopefully he will be open to it.

take care,

Arthy.

> Arthy

>

> Thyroid is definitely your problem, but I'm not sure at this point

which

> form of it. It's looking like Hashimoto's Disease, with the

bounding around

> effect AND it looks like your Antithyroglobulin Antibody is trying

to ease

> it's way up, though it's negative by as far as they look for

antibodies in

> the blood. The other antibody simply hasn't made it's debut yet,

IMHO, but

> I've got a feeling it will. Graves can make it's first debut in

this way

> too, and some people have both diseases, eventually, if not

already. What

> are those other antibodies, Topper? The ones that are with the

stimulating

> part of the program? I think that they use those more often than

not, to

> diagnose Graves. You've definitely been very hypo there, at one

point, and

> it looks like the fun is just on the beginning. This is how my

labs

> probably would have looked, had any doctors paid any attention to

my pleas

> for help, yrs ago, when I was suffering terrible anxiety attacks,

brain fog,

> and running a track like a hamster on a wheel. I have Hashi's

definitely,

> and may have had Graves, but may never know for sure.

>

>

>

> New and Questions.

>

>

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have been lurking around for some time after being diagnosed

with

> > thyroiditis (transient). According to my latest tests, I am

> > euthyroid. I still have symptoms and now am thoroughly confused.

Any

> > opinions/inputs would be appreciated.

> >

> > I was first diagnosed hyperthyroid by my primary care physician

in

> > Nov '03. From Jan'04 to April '04 my TSH bounced around and I

felt

> > mostly hypo. I was sick all the time and cranky. Since my

> > antibodies came back negative the endo decided that I was fine

and

> > that this was a one time thing. I was on propranalol till early

Jan

> > but no other medication.

> >

> > After this, May and June was extremely good ( I went on a

vacation

> > in early May).

> >

> > In July, it felt the rollercoaster was starting all over again. I

> > was also extremely depressed (still am though just a bit better)

> > this time around. So I got a second opinion. This doc said that

it

> > definitely sounded like my thyroid, and as it seems like my PMS

> > lasts atleast two weeks, it was most likely the thyroid. He was

of

> > the opinion that the antibodies wax and wane and that I have

> > definitely not seen the end of this. My strong family history

(my

> > dad had Graves) is one of the reasons that he was so sure about

it.

> > My PCP tested me and everything came back all within range

though I

> > feel far from normal.

> >

> > My results are

> >

> > Dec `03

> >

> > TSH < 0.01 ( 0.3 - 5)

> > T3 TOT 290 ( 60 - 160)

> > T3 Uptake 42 ( 22-35)

> > T4 T 23 (4.6 - 12.5)

> > FT3 8.84 (1.71 - 3.71)

> > FT4 3.60 (0.7 - 1.48)

> > Thyroglobulin AB < 20 ( 0-40)

> > TPO AB 23.9 (5-35)

> >

> > Thyroid uptake and scan results :

> > 6hrs is 9.4% (5-22)

> > 24 hrs 19.8 (11-36)

> >

> > Jan `04

> > TSH 6.03

> > FT4 1.0 (0.8-1.8)

> >

> > Apr `04

> >

> > TSH 2.46 (0.4-5)

> > FT4 1.2 (0.8 - 1.8)

> > Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<40)

> > TPO AB 20.1 (<35)

> >

> > Aug `04

> > FT4 1.2 (0.8-1.8)

> > FT3 3.0 (2.3-4.2)

> > TSH 1.73

> >

> > So as far as my doctors are concerned I am euthyroid.

> >

> > In some of the posts I have read, it states that FT3 is best in

the

> > high normal range. Is that when antibodies are present? Does

> > negative antibodies mean truly negative? Is there any other

antibody

> > test that would be useful?

> >

> > My primary care physician is mostly open to suggestions and

treating

> > me although my endo is less so. If I can rule the thyroid out, I

can

> > look to other reasons for me feeling the way I do! (This mail

turned

> > out to be longer than I thought so my apologies )

> >

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Arthy.

[Guest guest]

It sounds to me like you have a hyperfunctioning nodule, though why they

didn't recognisze that point by your ear being such, I have no idea. What

about the size of your thyroid? Is it enlarged? Did you know that some

people have thyroid tissue up as high as the bottom reaches of the back of

their tongue, though rare? You keep going to endos, and as long as you do

you will be undertreated on top of it all. There are lists of doctors on

many of these sites who are better thyroid docs and are not endos at all!

They just happen to have a practice of learning the disease, or are hypot

themselves. Nutrietn shortages are also involved in chronically

untreated/undertreated thyroid disease, of either end, high or low. Your

ferritin should be checked first and foremost, then B12, Folic Acid, and B6,

if you can afford it. If not, be sure to get the Ferritin, B12, and Folic

Acid and Red Blood Cell Folates done. These anemias that are so common with

thyroid disease, can cause terrible brain fog, anxiety, breathing problems,

chest pain, and extreme fatigue. You definitely have a thyroid problem.

Re: New and Questions.

>

> Hi Topper,

>

> I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

> shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

>

> To answer your questions:

>

> I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

> pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good that

> I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

> really underweight for me anyway).

>

> I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially when I

> was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of the

> thyroid.

>

> The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot near

> my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

>

> My symptoms these days:

>

> Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

> anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

>

> Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

> and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

> actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

> month!

>

> Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate my

> heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

>

> Muscle aches

>

> Chest pain (gas?)

>

> My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

> Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

>

> Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

>

> Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of bed.

>

> I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like either).

>

> Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I am

> hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

> sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

>

> My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call these

> days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband keeps

> out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in that

> respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

> bouncing).

>

> I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

> before my periods.

>

> Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

>

> Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will do

> that now.

>

> I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

> anymore.

>

> You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most tests

> will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of what

> I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By symptoms?

> Would the TSH elevate in this case?

>

> I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

> another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for labs

> before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will not!).

>

> I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

> May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then. I

> think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

> just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay for

> that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

> covered most of my tests and doc visits..

>

> I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am still

> willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

> heard me say that two years ago!

>

> Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

> everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

>

> thanks,

> Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Apparently I dont have an enlarged thyroid. I shall post the size

from the ultrasound later. My first endo did try to feel my thyroid

while i swallowed and said I had a really small one!

From the ultrasound measurements, it sounded like one side was

slightly bigger than the other but not sure if that meant one side

decided to start growing. I dont have a visible goiter that I can

see.

I did not think of that point in the upper neck being a nodule! I

read the description more carefully and it reads " subtle increase in

activity in the upper neck by the ear and there was a slight

imbalance between the two sides " . Yes I did know that thyroid

tissue turns up at the oddest places.

The last doctor I saw and the next one I am scheduled to see are

from the top thyroid doc list in about.com (I think). The last doc I

saw was going to retire in a couple of months so it turned into a

one time consult. The next one I am going to see specializes in

internal medicine and endocrinology. This one suprisingly happens

to be on my insurance (that is so rare with the docs on that list

that I started wondering if that was a bad thing.). So lets see how

that goes.

I am not sure if this is significant, my I suddenly needed to get

glasses for distance vision early this year. The optometrist said

that my eye muscles are that of someone much older than me. Not sure

if that is thyroid related. I do not have any bulging of the

eyes/redness that comes with TED.

I think my CBC came back clean last time it was done (but it was a

year ago now....) I will request the tests you mentioned thanks! I

do have trouble with multivitamins so have completely stopped them.

thanks,

Aarathy

> It sounds to me like you have a hyperfunctioning nodule, though

why they

> didn't recognisze that point by your ear being such, I have no

idea. What

> about the size of your thyroid? Is it enlarged? Did you know

that some

> people have thyroid tissue up as high as the bottom reaches of the

back of

> their tongue, though rare? You keep going to endos, and as long

as you do

> you will be undertreated on top of it all. There are lists of

doctors on

> many of these sites who are better thyroid docs and are not endos

at all!

> They just happen to have a practice of learning the disease, or

are hypot

> themselves. Nutrietn shortages are also involved in chronically

> untreated/undertreated thyroid disease, of either end, high or

low. Your

> ferritin should be checked first and foremost, then B12, Folic

Acid, and B6,

> if you can afford it. If not, be sure to get the Ferritin, B12,

and Folic

> Acid and Red Blood Cell Folates done. These anemias that are so

common with

> thyroid disease, can cause terrible brain fog, anxiety, breathing

problems,

> chest pain, and extreme fatigue. You definitely have a thyroid

problem.

>

>

>

> Re: New and Questions.

>

>

> >

> > Hi Topper,

> >

> > I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

> > shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

> >

> > To answer your questions:

> >

> > I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

> > pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good

that

> > I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

> > really underweight for me anyway).

> >

> > I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially

when I

> > was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of

the

> > thyroid.

> >

> > The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot

near

> > my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

> >

> > My symptoms these days:

> >

> > Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

> > anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

> >

> > Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

> > and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

> > actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

> > month!

> >

> > Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate

my

> > heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

> >

> > Muscle aches

> >

> > Chest pain (gas?)

> >

> > My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

> > Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

> >

> > Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

> >

> > Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of

bed.

> >

> > I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like

either).

> >

> > Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I

am

> > hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

> > sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

> >

> > My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call

these

> > days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband

keeps

> > out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in

that

> > respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

> > bouncing).

> >

> > I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

> > before my periods.

> >

> > Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

> >

> > Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will

do

> > that now.

> >

> > I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

> > anymore.

> >

> > You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most

tests

> > will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of

what

> > I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By

symptoms?

> > Would the TSH elevate in this case?

> >

> > I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

> > another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for

labs

> > before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will

not!).

> >

> > I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

> > May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then.

I

> > think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

> > just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay

for

> > that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

> > covered most of my tests and doc visits..

> >

> > I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am

still

> > willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

> > heard me say that two years ago!

> >

> > Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

> > everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

> >

> > thanks,

> > Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Apparently I dont have an enlarged thyroid. I shall post the size

from the ultrasound later. My first endo did try to feel my thyroid

while i swallowed and said I had a really small one!

From the ultrasound measurements, it sounded like one side was

slightly bigger than the other but not sure if that meant one side

decided to start growing. I dont have a visible goiter that I can

see.

I did not think of that point in the upper neck being a nodule! I

read the description more carefully and it reads " subtle increase in

activity in the upper neck by the ear and there was a slight

imbalance between the two sides " . Yes I did know that thyroid

tissue turns up at the oddest places.

The last doctor I saw and the next one I am scheduled to see are

from the top thyroid doc list in about.com (I think). The last doc I

saw was going to retire in a couple of months so it turned into a

one time consult. The next one I am going to see specializes in

internal medicine and endocrinology. This one suprisingly happens

to be on my insurance (that is so rare with the docs on that list

that I started wondering if that was a bad thing.). So lets see how

that goes.

I am not sure if this is significant, my I suddenly needed to get

glasses for distance vision early this year. The optometrist said

that my eye muscles are that of someone much older than me. Not sure

if that is thyroid related. I do not have any bulging of the

eyes/redness that comes with TED.

I think my CBC came back clean last time it was done (but it was a

year ago now....) I will request the tests you mentioned thanks! I

do have trouble with multivitamins so have completely stopped them.

thanks,

Aarathy

> It sounds to me like you have a hyperfunctioning nodule, though

why they

> didn't recognisze that point by your ear being such, I have no

idea. What

> about the size of your thyroid? Is it enlarged? Did you know

that some

> people have thyroid tissue up as high as the bottom reaches of the

back of

> their tongue, though rare? You keep going to endos, and as long

as you do

> you will be undertreated on top of it all. There are lists of

doctors on

> many of these sites who are better thyroid docs and are not endos

at all!

> They just happen to have a practice of learning the disease, or

are hypot

> themselves. Nutrietn shortages are also involved in chronically

> untreated/undertreated thyroid disease, of either end, high or

low. Your

> ferritin should be checked first and foremost, then B12, Folic

Acid, and B6,

> if you can afford it. If not, be sure to get the Ferritin, B12,

and Folic

> Acid and Red Blood Cell Folates done. These anemias that are so

common with

> thyroid disease, can cause terrible brain fog, anxiety, breathing

problems,

> chest pain, and extreme fatigue. You definitely have a thyroid

problem.

>

>

>

> Re: New and Questions.

>

>

> >

> > Hi Topper,

> >

> > I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

> > shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

> >

> > To answer your questions:

> >

> > I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

> > pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good

that

> > I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

> > really underweight for me anyway).

> >

> > I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially

when I

> > was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of

the

> > thyroid.

> >

> > The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot

near

> > my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

> >

> > My symptoms these days:

> >

> > Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

> > anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

> >

> > Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

> > and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

> > actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

> > month!

> >

> > Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate

my

> > heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

> >

> > Muscle aches

> >

> > Chest pain (gas?)

> >

> > My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

> > Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

> >

> > Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

> >

> > Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of

bed.

> >

> > I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like

either).

> >

> > Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I

am

> > hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

> > sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

> >

> > My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call

these

> > days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband

keeps

> > out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in

that

> > respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

> > bouncing).

> >

> > I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

> > before my periods.

> >

> > Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

> >

> > Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will

do

> > that now.

> >

> > I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

> > anymore.

> >

> > You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most

tests

> > will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of

what

> > I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By

symptoms?

> > Would the TSH elevate in this case?

> >

> > I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

> > another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for

labs

> > before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will

not!).

> >

> > I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

> > May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then.

I

> > think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

> > just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay

for

> > that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

> > covered most of my tests and doc visits..

> >

> > I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am

still

> > willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

> > heard me say that two years ago!

> >

> > Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

> > everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

> >

> > thanks,

> > Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Apparently I dont have an enlarged thyroid. I shall post the size

from the ultrasound later. My first endo did try to feel my thyroid

while i swallowed and said I had a really small one!

From the ultrasound measurements, it sounded like one side was

slightly bigger than the other but not sure if that meant one side

decided to start growing. I dont have a visible goiter that I can

see.

I did not think of that point in the upper neck being a nodule! I

read the description more carefully and it reads " subtle increase in

activity in the upper neck by the ear and there was a slight

imbalance between the two sides " . Yes I did know that thyroid

tissue turns up at the oddest places.

The last doctor I saw and the next one I am scheduled to see are

from the top thyroid doc list in about.com (I think). The last doc I

saw was going to retire in a couple of months so it turned into a

one time consult. The next one I am going to see specializes in

internal medicine and endocrinology. This one suprisingly happens

to be on my insurance (that is so rare with the docs on that list

that I started wondering if that was a bad thing.). So lets see how

that goes.

I am not sure if this is significant, my I suddenly needed to get

glasses for distance vision early this year. The optometrist said

that my eye muscles are that of someone much older than me. Not sure

if that is thyroid related. I do not have any bulging of the

eyes/redness that comes with TED.

I think my CBC came back clean last time it was done (but it was a

year ago now....) I will request the tests you mentioned thanks! I

do have trouble with multivitamins so have completely stopped them.

thanks,

Aarathy

> It sounds to me like you have a hyperfunctioning nodule, though

why they

> didn't recognisze that point by your ear being such, I have no

idea. What

> about the size of your thyroid? Is it enlarged? Did you know

that some

> people have thyroid tissue up as high as the bottom reaches of the

back of

> their tongue, though rare? You keep going to endos, and as long

as you do

> you will be undertreated on top of it all. There are lists of

doctors on

> many of these sites who are better thyroid docs and are not endos

at all!

> They just happen to have a practice of learning the disease, or

are hypot

> themselves. Nutrietn shortages are also involved in chronically

> untreated/undertreated thyroid disease, of either end, high or

low. Your

> ferritin should be checked first and foremost, then B12, Folic

Acid, and B6,

> if you can afford it. If not, be sure to get the Ferritin, B12,

and Folic

> Acid and Red Blood Cell Folates done. These anemias that are so

common with

> thyroid disease, can cause terrible brain fog, anxiety, breathing

problems,

> chest pain, and extreme fatigue. You definitely have a thyroid

problem.

>

>

>

> Re: New and Questions.

>

>

> >

> > Hi Topper,

> >

> > I guess I did miss out a lot of things in the earlier mail. I

> > shortened that since I do have a tendency to ramble on .

> >

> > To answer your questions:

> >

> > I am 30. Between 2002 and now I have fluctuated between 110 - 125

> > pounds. Right now am at 120. I was 125 in May and felt so good

that

> > I resolved to stay at that weight. (I am 166cms tall so 110 was

> > really underweight for me anyway).

> >

> > I missed out the fact that I had an ultrasound done initially

when I

> > was diagnosed hyper. This showed up no nodules or enlargement of

the

> > thyroid.

> >

> > The thyroid uptake and scan showed increased activity at a spot

near

> > my ear which they thought was a salivary gland (is that odd?).

> >

> > My symptoms these days:

> >

> > Depressed : So much so that people at work have been asking me if

> > anything is wrong! I cry at the smallest things.

> >

> > Pulse : between 60 and 70 at rest. I work out about an hour a day

> > and play squash once or twice a week (force myself to do this

> > actually). My tolerance level for exercise varies by the time of

> > month!

> >

> > Cannot tolerate hot or cold anymore. Hot showers used to elevate

my

> > heart rate and keep it elevated for about a couple of hours.

> >

> > Muscle aches

> >

> > Chest pain (gas?)

> >

> > My energy levels : probably a 5 now (compared to what it was in

> > Dec'03-April'04). This is why I dont think it is CFS.

> >

> > Pain down both sides of my neck (infection?)

> >

> > Have trouble getting to bed and then have trouble getting out of

bed.

> >

> > I do dream (not full blown nightmares but not stuff I like

either).

> >

> > Some days I am hungry all day and on other days not. Some days I

am

> > hungry but dont feel like eating anything (does that even make

> > sense?). These days I want more salt on everything.

> >

> > My PMS typically lasts two weeks and I also have what I call

these

> > days post-MS for atleast a couple of days after. My husband

keeps

> > out of my way after the first cranky snipe (he is a saint in

that

> > respect although I was probably a bigger b*** when I was doing my

> > bouncing).

> >

> > I get breathless every once in a while even when I am watching TV

> > before my periods.

> >

> > Respiration : close to 20/min when I last checked.

> >

> > Temp : I have been meaning to do this for the longest time. Will

do

> > that now.

> >

> > I am extremely lethargic and almost do nothing around the house

> > anymore.

> >

> > You mentioned hormone resistance. From the sounds of it, most

tests

> > will then show up normal and the body just does not use any of

what

> > I have in me already. How is that normally diagnosed? By

symptoms?

> > Would the TSH elevate in this case?

> >

> > I am scheduled for labs in Dec. I am scheduled to talk to yet

> > another endo in late October so maybe he will schedule me for

labs

> > before that (or the way things have been going maybe he will

not!).

> >

> > I have been trying hard to figure out what made me feel better in

> > May and June (apart from the vacation). I felt really good then.

I

> > think the next time I feel that good, I am going to get labs done

> > just to see what my " normal " levels are (even if I have to pay

for

> > that myself). So far I am just lucky to have insurance that has

> > covered most of my tests and doc visits..

> >

> > I am a vegetarian (have been from when I can remember) and am

still

> > willing to try armour if it is the way to go. You wouldnt have

> > heard me say that two years ago!

> >

> > Once again, thanks for the support/information that you and

> > everybody else bring into this group (and me ofcourse ).

> >

> > thanks,

> > Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Cravings that creep up like that... becoming passions.. intrigue me... I was just crazy for soy nuts as I went into storm.. after the RAI and going hypo I found that I couldn't even stand the taste of them....

Soy sauce and other fermented forms of soy.. I think someone said Miso is fermented... are beneficial... it's the other forms of soy that are bad.

It seems that your intake isn't really outrageous... but if you are eating a lot on those occasions it might be a factor.....

I see that is thinking along the lines of Hashi's.... but that right now you're in mid swing so the antibodies are looking low... the only thing you can do is to head back in for more tests to watch for the levels to fluctuate to a range that the doc is going to acknowledge.

It looks like you've kept a good eye on protein counts.. that's good... some folks are much better with protein.. as in they don't need as much.. others need more...

With your periods.... that irregularity could very well be thyroid related.. but I'm wondering if you've had your ferritin (storage iron) checked... we're seeing more and more folks that are showing low ferritin as well as several other anemias.. I saw that ran through those.... She's done a lot of research on this stuff and is dealing with Hashi's herself so I trust her observations.

Stress can really throw you for a loop too... your adrenals get a pretty hefty burden from thyroid's being out of whack... stress on top of that is just more grief....

I know this sounds REALLY lame.. but it does help a lot... see if you can find a block of time... even just 15 or 30 minutes a day to do some ME time. Something that you do totally for yourself, to ease your mind, relax your spirit and just unwind. It can be anything that you truly enjoy that is relaxing... a bubble bath, reading, writing, art work, needlepoint, a puzzle.... or just lay in the grass and find the animals in the clouds... something to just forget about the rest of the world for a wee bit. To be by yourself with no pressures or expectations from others.

There are more extensive tests for adrenal fatigue... others can give you a whole lot more detail on that than I can. It involves checking levels several times a day to verify that your levels are correct at various points during the day.

There are supplements that you can take to help adrenals rest and recover..... So no need to worry on that point... I've been working on mine on my own with good results.

This will take some figuring... but we're here to help with that, if you'd like...

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:24:25 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi,I think I did increase soy intake around june (discovered a new shake which has soy protien in it). The funny thing is I do crave that shake. I get in from work or gym in the evenings and regardless of whats waiting I need to have atleast a little of it (maybe its the honey in it I crave). Normal intake for me otherwise is soy in chinese/thai food about 4 times a month. I guess I should experiment with stopping that. I think mostly my stress levels reduced in May and June which is why I had a good spring.Oh, I dont have hyper FT3 and FT4 levels at this point. Right now, they are just below midrange (both). FT3 : 3.0 (2.3-4.2)FT4 : 1.2 (0.8-1.8)TSH : 1.73Antibodies came back negative :TPO AB 20.1 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<41)The test was done once in Dec'03 and once in Random cortisol check : 10.7 (3.0 - 17.0) Adrenal issues were ruled out because of this (I think!).Total protein : 8.2 (6.0 - 8.3)When I was hyper last year it was 9.0 I dont know if this is relevant, but my Total protien always comes out to be close to top of the range or just over. Family history:My dad had Graves Disease (so there is a history there). I dont know about his parents and siblings. As far as I know they do not seem to have any thyroid problems.My protein intake normally comes from beans/ a variety of split peas/yoghurt (lots of it: that is another thing I crave)/cheese (love it actually). My B12 has always been fine (my PCP is almost always surprised by this). To some extent I am a vegetarian because I was raised a vegetarian and then did not want to change it. But at this point, I think a change in diet would just cause more havoc than anything else (I toyed with the idea for a while in March when my muscles were so weak after all the bouncing).My periods are more long drawn these days : 5 days of spotting and two days normal bleeding. I think things changed over a long period of time from a "it happens when it happens" when I was 20 (absolutely no PMS then) to this now so I did not notice the change till last year when my doc actually asked me the question. Oh and I dont have any kids.Things got pretty stressful at work around July and I think thats what triggered of the latest slew of symptoms.anyways, I am going to try and get to work now (my car conked out on me last night).take care,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Cravings that creep up like that... becoming passions.. intrigue me... I was just crazy for soy nuts as I went into storm.. after the RAI and going hypo I found that I couldn't even stand the taste of them....

Soy sauce and other fermented forms of soy.. I think someone said Miso is fermented... are beneficial... it's the other forms of soy that are bad.

It seems that your intake isn't really outrageous... but if you are eating a lot on those occasions it might be a factor.....

I see that is thinking along the lines of Hashi's.... but that right now you're in mid swing so the antibodies are looking low... the only thing you can do is to head back in for more tests to watch for the levels to fluctuate to a range that the doc is going to acknowledge.

It looks like you've kept a good eye on protein counts.. that's good... some folks are much better with protein.. as in they don't need as much.. others need more...

With your periods.... that irregularity could very well be thyroid related.. but I'm wondering if you've had your ferritin (storage iron) checked... we're seeing more and more folks that are showing low ferritin as well as several other anemias.. I saw that ran through those.... She's done a lot of research on this stuff and is dealing with Hashi's herself so I trust her observations.

Stress can really throw you for a loop too... your adrenals get a pretty hefty burden from thyroid's being out of whack... stress on top of that is just more grief....

I know this sounds REALLY lame.. but it does help a lot... see if you can find a block of time... even just 15 or 30 minutes a day to do some ME time. Something that you do totally for yourself, to ease your mind, relax your spirit and just unwind. It can be anything that you truly enjoy that is relaxing... a bubble bath, reading, writing, art work, needlepoint, a puzzle.... or just lay in the grass and find the animals in the clouds... something to just forget about the rest of the world for a wee bit. To be by yourself with no pressures or expectations from others.

There are more extensive tests for adrenal fatigue... others can give you a whole lot more detail on that than I can. It involves checking levels several times a day to verify that your levels are correct at various points during the day.

There are supplements that you can take to help adrenals rest and recover..... So no need to worry on that point... I've been working on mine on my own with good results.

This will take some figuring... but we're here to help with that, if you'd like...

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:24:25 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi,I think I did increase soy intake around june (discovered a new shake which has soy protien in it). The funny thing is I do crave that shake. I get in from work or gym in the evenings and regardless of whats waiting I need to have atleast a little of it (maybe its the honey in it I crave). Normal intake for me otherwise is soy in chinese/thai food about 4 times a month. I guess I should experiment with stopping that. I think mostly my stress levels reduced in May and June which is why I had a good spring.Oh, I dont have hyper FT3 and FT4 levels at this point. Right now, they are just below midrange (both). FT3 : 3.0 (2.3-4.2)FT4 : 1.2 (0.8-1.8)TSH : 1.73Antibodies came back negative :TPO AB 20.1 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<41)The test was done once in Dec'03 and once in Random cortisol check : 10.7 (3.0 - 17.0) Adrenal issues were ruled out because of this (I think!).Total protein : 8.2 (6.0 - 8.3)When I was hyper last year it was 9.0 I dont know if this is relevant, but my Total protien always comes out to be close to top of the range or just over. Family history:My dad had Graves Disease (so there is a history there). I dont know about his parents and siblings. As far as I know they do not seem to have any thyroid problems.My protein intake normally comes from beans/ a variety of split peas/yoghurt (lots of it: that is another thing I crave)/cheese (love it actually). My B12 has always been fine (my PCP is almost always surprised by this). To some extent I am a vegetarian because I was raised a vegetarian and then did not want to change it. But at this point, I think a change in diet would just cause more havoc than anything else (I toyed with the idea for a while in March when my muscles were so weak after all the bouncing).My periods are more long drawn these days : 5 days of spotting and two days normal bleeding. I think things changed over a long period of time from a "it happens when it happens" when I was 20 (absolutely no PMS then) to this now so I did not notice the change till last year when my doc actually asked me the question. Oh and I dont have any kids.Things got pretty stressful at work around July and I think thats what triggered of the latest slew of symptoms.anyways, I am going to try and get to work now (my car conked out on me last night).take care,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Cravings that creep up like that... becoming passions.. intrigue me... I was just crazy for soy nuts as I went into storm.. after the RAI and going hypo I found that I couldn't even stand the taste of them....

Soy sauce and other fermented forms of soy.. I think someone said Miso is fermented... are beneficial... it's the other forms of soy that are bad.

It seems that your intake isn't really outrageous... but if you are eating a lot on those occasions it might be a factor.....

I see that is thinking along the lines of Hashi's.... but that right now you're in mid swing so the antibodies are looking low... the only thing you can do is to head back in for more tests to watch for the levels to fluctuate to a range that the doc is going to acknowledge.

It looks like you've kept a good eye on protein counts.. that's good... some folks are much better with protein.. as in they don't need as much.. others need more...

With your periods.... that irregularity could very well be thyroid related.. but I'm wondering if you've had your ferritin (storage iron) checked... we're seeing more and more folks that are showing low ferritin as well as several other anemias.. I saw that ran through those.... She's done a lot of research on this stuff and is dealing with Hashi's herself so I trust her observations.

Stress can really throw you for a loop too... your adrenals get a pretty hefty burden from thyroid's being out of whack... stress on top of that is just more grief....

I know this sounds REALLY lame.. but it does help a lot... see if you can find a block of time... even just 15 or 30 minutes a day to do some ME time. Something that you do totally for yourself, to ease your mind, relax your spirit and just unwind. It can be anything that you truly enjoy that is relaxing... a bubble bath, reading, writing, art work, needlepoint, a puzzle.... or just lay in the grass and find the animals in the clouds... something to just forget about the rest of the world for a wee bit. To be by yourself with no pressures or expectations from others.

There are more extensive tests for adrenal fatigue... others can give you a whole lot more detail on that than I can. It involves checking levels several times a day to verify that your levels are correct at various points during the day.

There are supplements that you can take to help adrenals rest and recover..... So no need to worry on that point... I've been working on mine on my own with good results.

This will take some figuring... but we're here to help with that, if you'd like...

Topper ()

On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:24:25 -0000 "a_val1974" writes:

Hi,I think I did increase soy intake around june (discovered a new shake which has soy protien in it). The funny thing is I do crave that shake. I get in from work or gym in the evenings and regardless of whats waiting I need to have atleast a little of it (maybe its the honey in it I crave). Normal intake for me otherwise is soy in chinese/thai food about 4 times a month. I guess I should experiment with stopping that. I think mostly my stress levels reduced in May and June which is why I had a good spring.Oh, I dont have hyper FT3 and FT4 levels at this point. Right now, they are just below midrange (both). FT3 : 3.0 (2.3-4.2)FT4 : 1.2 (0.8-1.8)TSH : 1.73Antibodies came back negative :TPO AB 20.1 (<35)Thyroglobulin AB < 20 (<41)The test was done once in Dec'03 and once in Random cortisol check : 10.7 (3.0 - 17.0) Adrenal issues were ruled out because of this (I think!).Total protein : 8.2 (6.0 - 8.3)When I was hyper last year it was 9.0 I dont know if this is relevant, but my Total protien always comes out to be close to top of the range or just over. Family history:My dad had Graves Disease (so there is a history there). I dont know about his parents and siblings. As far as I know they do not seem to have any thyroid problems.My protein intake normally comes from beans/ a variety of split peas/yoghurt (lots of it: that is another thing I crave)/cheese (love it actually). My B12 has always been fine (my PCP is almost always surprised by this). To some extent I am a vegetarian because I was raised a vegetarian and then did not want to change it. But at this point, I think a change in diet would just cause more havoc than anything else (I toyed with the idea for a while in March when my muscles were so weak after all the bouncing).My periods are more long drawn these days : 5 days of spotting and two days normal bleeding. I think things changed over a long period of time from a "it happens when it happens" when I was 20 (absolutely no PMS then) to this now so I did not notice the change till last year when my doc actually asked me the question. Oh and I dont have any kids.Things got pretty stressful at work around July and I think thats what triggered of the latest slew of symptoms.anyways, I am going to try and get to work now (my car conked out on me last night).take care,Arthy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

Yes this is going to take some figuring out and I can use all the help I can get. It is going to take me a little bit of time to do all the reading I need to do before I go in for the next apptmt. The least I can do is have a list of questions and tests which the replies I have had from this group helped. I think I do need to read up though.

You mentioned supplements, I was thinking back and there was a supplement I was taking during April and I stopped when I went on vacation and completely forgot about it afterwords. I read up on it a bit. It is supposed to give adrenal support and regulate thyroid (according to my mom ...). Oh is there any rule about not posting names of nutritional supplements here? I have dug that up and restarted on those.

I know there are top doc sites for the thyroid for western medicine. Is there any such sites for holistic methods as well? I know that meditation would possibly help me especially when things get real stressful at work.

Oh, this might sound like an odd question, but are varicose veins and thyroid in anyway related?

There were a few posts earlier today about the doc not treating a TSH of 5. My first endo did not believe in treating anybody with a TSH of below 10 and said it was a norm. Ofcourse I did not know any better then.

Anyways, have a good weekend

Arthy.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

Yes this is going to take some figuring out and I can use all the help I can get. It is going to take me a little bit of time to do all the reading I need to do before I go in for the next apptmt. The least I can do is have a list of questions and tests which the replies I have had from this group helped. I think I do need to read up though.

You mentioned supplements, I was thinking back and there was a supplement I was taking during April and I stopped when I went on vacation and completely forgot about it afterwords. I read up on it a bit. It is supposed to give adrenal support and regulate thyroid (according to my mom ...). Oh is there any rule about not posting names of nutritional supplements here? I have dug that up and restarted on those.

I know there are top doc sites for the thyroid for western medicine. Is there any such sites for holistic methods as well? I know that meditation would possibly help me especially when things get real stressful at work.

Oh, this might sound like an odd question, but are varicose veins and thyroid in anyway related?

There were a few posts earlier today about the doc not treating a TSH of 5. My first endo did not believe in treating anybody with a TSH of below 10 and said it was a norm. Ofcourse I did not know any better then.

Anyways, have a good weekend

Arthy.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Topper,

Yes this is going to take some figuring out and I can use all the help I can get. It is going to take me a little bit of time to do all the reading I need to do before I go in for the next apptmt. The least I can do is have a list of questions and tests which the replies I have had from this group helped. I think I do need to read up though.

You mentioned supplements, I was thinking back and there was a supplement I was taking during April and I stopped when I went on vacation and completely forgot about it afterwords. I read up on it a bit. It is supposed to give adrenal support and regulate thyroid (according to my mom ...). Oh is there any rule about not posting names of nutritional supplements here? I have dug that up and restarted on those.

I know there are top doc sites for the thyroid for western medicine. Is there any such sites for holistic methods as well? I know that meditation would possibly help me especially when things get real stressful at work.

Oh, this might sound like an odd question, but are varicose veins and thyroid in anyway related?

There were a few posts earlier today about the doc not treating a TSH of 5. My first endo did not believe in treating anybody with a TSH of below 10 and said it was a norm. Ofcourse I did not know any better then.

Anyways, have a good weekend

Arthy.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The more that we can kick stuff back and forth.. and the more folks that take a peek.. the more ideas we'll come up with... I've seen that happen a LOT here.....

As long as you're not selling stuff.... if you want an opinion from others about something that you've seen, or tried something that you'd like to share the good or bad of... we encourage you to share the info (links, names, descriptions)... if you're in doubt about something... contact or me and we'll give you our ThyroMusketeer blessing and then you, or we, can post the info. Same goes for links for subjects that we are discussing.. or groups that are involved in a topic under discussion.. like the lymph groups that I listed earlier this week and the stuff from the Australian web site the other day.... (but remember, no selling, nothing that is not family friendly, and no plugging other groups cause you think its okay to plug groups)

Keep notes on yourself.. How you are feeling. Dosage changes. A change (addition or subtraction) of a supplement... Stuff like that... it makes it easier to remember stuff later. I was using a program called SmartDiary. The free version does everything I needed... if you buy the registered version you can chart a lot more stuff... it's a diary, and you can chart moods, your period.. all kinds of stuff... I might have it in the files section off the group home page... if not, you should be able to google it. It's pass worded so you can do it on the puter and no one else can snoop. (It's okay to list software that pertains to a discussion, too, just don't go crazy.... and no selling - cause if selling were okay, well, I'd plug my stuff! hehehehehehe)

Vericose and spider veins.. I've seen them listed as being thyroid related.. I have a few around my knees, spider veins, that is.....

No question is crazy... it might just tweak someone's brain to come up with the magic answer... so share your thoughts......

I'm not sure about holistic stuff... maybe others have a better info level on that....

Topper ()

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Aarathy Acharya writes:

Hi Topper,

Yes this is going to take some figuring out and I can use all the help I can get. It is going to take me a little bit of time to do all the reading I need to do before I go in for the next apptmt. The least I can do is have a list of questions and tests which the replies I have had from this group helped. I think I do need to read up though.

You mentioned supplements, I was thinking back and there was a supplement I was taking during April and I stopped when I went on vacation and completely forgot about it afterwords. I read up on it a bit. It is supposed to give adrenal support and regulate thyroid (according to my mom ...). Oh is there any rule about not posting names of nutritional supplements here? I have dug that up and restarted on those.

I know there are top doc sites for the thyroid for western medicine. Is there any such sites for holistic methods as well? I know that meditation would possibly help me especially when things get real stressful at work.

Oh, this might sound like an odd question, but are varicose veins and thyroid in anyway related?

There were a few posts earlier today about the doc not treating a TSH of 5. My first endo did not believe in treating anybody with a TSH of below 10 and said it was a norm. Ofcourse I did not know any better then.

Anyways, have a good weekend

Arthy.

[Guest guest]

The more that we can kick stuff back and forth.. and the more folks that take a peek.. the more ideas we'll come up with... I've seen that happen a LOT here.....

As long as you're not selling stuff.... if you want an opinion from others about something that you've seen, or tried something that you'd like to share the good or bad of... we encourage you to share the info (links, names, descriptions)... if you're in doubt about something... contact or me and we'll give you our ThyroMusketeer blessing and then you, or we, can post the info. Same goes for links for subjects that we are discussing.. or groups that are involved in a topic under discussion.. like the lymph groups that I listed earlier this week and the stuff from the Australian web site the other day.... (but remember, no selling, nothing that is not family friendly, and no plugging other groups cause you think its okay to plug groups)

Keep notes on yourself.. How you are feeling. Dosage changes. A change (addition or subtraction) of a supplement... Stuff like that... it makes it easier to remember stuff later. I was using a program called SmartDiary. The free version does everything I needed... if you buy the registered version you can chart a lot more stuff... it's a diary, and you can chart moods, your period.. all kinds of stuff... I might have it in the files section off the group home page... if not, you should be able to google it. It's pass worded so you can do it on the puter and no one else can snoop. (It's okay to list software that pertains to a discussion, too, just don't go crazy.... and no selling - cause if selling were okay, well, I'd plug my stuff! hehehehehehe)

Vericose and spider veins.. I've seen them listed as being thyroid related.. I have a few around my knees, spider veins, that is.....

No question is crazy... it might just tweak someone's brain to come up with the magic answer... so share your thoughts......

I'm not sure about holistic stuff... maybe others have a better info level on that....

Topper ()

On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Aarathy Acharya writes:

Hi Topper,

Yes this is going to take some figuring out and I can use all the help I can get. It is going to take me a little bit of time to do all the reading I need to do before I go in for the next apptmt. The least I can do is have a list of questions and tests which the replies I have had from this group helped. I think I do need to read up though.

You mentioned supplements, I was thinking back and there was a supplement I was taking during April and I stopped when I went on vacation and completely forgot about it afterwords. I read up on it a bit. It is supposed to give adrenal support and regulate thyroid (according to my mom ...). Oh is there any rule about not posting names of nutritional supplements here? I have dug that up and restarted on those.

I know there are top doc sites for the thyroid for western medicine. Is there any such sites for holistic methods as well? I know that meditation would possibly help me especially when things get real stressful at work.

Oh, this might sound like an odd question, but are varicose veins and thyroid in anyway related?

There were a few posts earlier today about the doc not treating a TSH of 5. My first endo did not believe in treating anybody with a TSH of below 10 and said it was a norm. Ofcourse I did not know any better then.

Anyways, have a good weekend

Arthy.