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That's it... You had to wait a week to find out that they took only one test that doesn't tell you squat???

Geez.

They have to find out the cause of the enlargement on the left side.. they have to find out..

Get this, everyone... they have her scheduled to remove the left lobe, yet she is undiagnosed, they laughed when she requested antibody tests... They've put her on Armour... and now are still only testing TSH... and not trying to find out what is wrong.

I strongly believe that your back pain is adrenal stress... which again means that something has to be done about finding out what is wrong...

Any comments, suggestions from you guys.. right now I'm mad... and it's not even me.... I don't want to cross lines.... but derned.. I'm pissed....

Topper () *trying to not scream*

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:35:37 -0700 (PDT) edumom writes:

drum roll here......

are you ready?....

TSH- 1.93

no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

sincerely, edumom

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That's it... You had to wait a week to find out that they took only one test that doesn't tell you squat???

Geez.

They have to find out the cause of the enlargement on the left side.. they have to find out..

Get this, everyone... they have her scheduled to remove the left lobe, yet she is undiagnosed, they laughed when she requested antibody tests... They've put her on Armour... and now are still only testing TSH... and not trying to find out what is wrong.

I strongly believe that your back pain is adrenal stress... which again means that something has to be done about finding out what is wrong...

Any comments, suggestions from you guys.. right now I'm mad... and it's not even me.... I don't want to cross lines.... but derned.. I'm pissed....

Topper () *trying to not scream*

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:35:37 -0700 (PDT) edumom writes:

drum roll here......

are you ready?....

TSH- 1.93

no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

sincerely, edumom

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TSH alone is not enough to tell what your thyroid is doing.. you need to know how much Free T4 and Free T3 you have in your system... the doc is not very knowledgeable at all about thyroid.. and he needs to test for the antibodies as the first step to find out the cause of the enlargement....

arrrrggghhhhhhh

Topper ()

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:23:22 -0700 (PDT) edumom writes:

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

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TSH alone is not enough to tell what your thyroid is doing.. you need to know how much Free T4 and Free T3 you have in your system... the doc is not very knowledgeable at all about thyroid.. and he needs to test for the antibodies as the first step to find out the cause of the enlargement....

arrrrggghhhhhhh

Topper ()

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:23:22 -0700 (PDT) edumom writes:

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

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TSH alone is not enough to tell what your thyroid is doing.. you need to know how much Free T4 and Free T3 you have in your system... the doc is not very knowledgeable at all about thyroid.. and he needs to test for the antibodies as the first step to find out the cause of the enlargement....

arrrrggghhhhhhh

Topper ()

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:23:22 -0700 (PDT) edumom writes:

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

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I'm with Topper on this one.  Of course, I'm a bit paranoid of surgery,

but still..... if you're going to operate on me:1.  You

better be able to tell me why2.  You better have

tried all the other alternatives -- or at least be able

to tell me that historically they have a bad track record or

something3.  You DAMN well better answer

my questions about what you think is wrong, what causes it, why surgery

will make it better, and what the long term plan is.Then again I'm

pretty b****y when it comes to doctors, but I let one talk me into surgery

(for carpal tunnel) and found out later that I could have tried other

things and probably had the start of my thyroid problems even then.  Don't

get me wrong -- I was at the point where I had lost use of my entire arm

-- but guess what?  I still have carpal tunnel problems and the physical

therapy I had afterward helped a lot more than the surgery did.  So I'm

pretty outspoken and opinionated about all of it.  I'm sorry if I'm rude,

but I think sometimes those docs just do NOT want to listen to

us.*hands the soapbox back to Topper so she can put her legs

up*That being said...... I think I missed some of the details.  Did

you have any luck with the patient advocate?  What did she say?  Can you

delay your surgery?  I remember you said you don't have a lot of options

for doctors there, but if there's *ANYONE* else you can see, even a nurse

practitioner.........it would be worth it to me.And that is my very

uncensored personal opinion -- do with it what you will.Love and

light to you, Edumom, and I hope you can work this out and be healthy.  I

really do. in LA> That's it... You had to wait a

week to find out that they took only one > test that doesn't tell

you squat??? > > Geez. > > They have

to find out the cause of the enlargement on the left side.. >

they have to find out.. > Get this, everyone... they have her

scheduled to remove the left lobe, > yet she is undiagnosed, they

laughed when she requested antibody tests... > They've put her on

Armour... and now are still only testing TSH... and > not trying

to find out what is wrong.

----------------------------------------- Get a LosAngeles.com email address! To sign up for your own account, visit http://mail.LosAngeles.com

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I'm with Topper on this one.  Of course, I'm a bit paranoid of surgery,

but still..... if you're going to operate on me:1.  You

better be able to tell me why2.  You better have

tried all the other alternatives -- or at least be able

to tell me that historically they have a bad track record or

something3.  You DAMN well better answer

my questions about what you think is wrong, what causes it, why surgery

will make it better, and what the long term plan is.Then again I'm

pretty b****y when it comes to doctors, but I let one talk me into surgery

(for carpal tunnel) and found out later that I could have tried other

things and probably had the start of my thyroid problems even then.  Don't

get me wrong -- I was at the point where I had lost use of my entire arm

-- but guess what?  I still have carpal tunnel problems and the physical

therapy I had afterward helped a lot more than the surgery did.  So I'm

pretty outspoken and opinionated about all of it.  I'm sorry if I'm rude,

but I think sometimes those docs just do NOT want to listen to

us.*hands the soapbox back to Topper so she can put her legs

up*That being said...... I think I missed some of the details.  Did

you have any luck with the patient advocate?  What did she say?  Can you

delay your surgery?  I remember you said you don't have a lot of options

for doctors there, but if there's *ANYONE* else you can see, even a nurse

practitioner.........it would be worth it to me.And that is my very

uncensored personal opinion -- do with it what you will.Love and

light to you, Edumom, and I hope you can work this out and be healthy.  I

really do. in LA> That's it... You had to wait a

week to find out that they took only one > test that doesn't tell

you squat??? > > Geez. > > They have

to find out the cause of the enlargement on the left side.. >

they have to find out.. > Get this, everyone... they have her

scheduled to remove the left lobe, > yet she is undiagnosed, they

laughed when she requested antibody tests... > They've put her on

Armour... and now are still only testing TSH... and > not trying

to find out what is wrong.

----------------------------------------- Get a LosAngeles.com email address! To sign up for your own account, visit http://mail.LosAngeles.com

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I loved what you said .. This should be a list that all of us take to heart....

Now.. for the comment on the soap box and getting my legs up... How dare you make me crack up out loud like that and make the neighbor turn to see what the heck was going on!!!!

I have the windows open, as always, and he was coming out the door to head for work and I started to just guffaw so bad that I had to stand up and calm down and I turn and look and there he is just staring at me!!!

hehehehehahahhahahahahhehehehehehehe

Topper ()

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:46:19 -0700 (PDT) craftygirl@... writes:

I'm with Topper on this one. Of course, I'm a bit paranoid of surgery, but still..... if you're going to operate on me:

1. You better be able to tell me why

2. You better have tried all the other alternatives -- or at least be able to tell me that historically they have a bad track record or something

3. You DAMN well better answer my questions about what you think is wrong, what causes it, why surgery will make it better, and what the long term plan is.

Then again I'm pretty b****y when it comes to doctors, but I let one talk me into surgery (for carpal tunnel) and found out later that I could have tried other things and probably had the start of my thyroid problems even then. Don't get me wrong -- I was at the point where I had lost use of my entire arm -- but guess what? I still have carpal tunnel problems and the physical therapy I had afterward helped a lot more than the surgery did. So I'm pretty outspoken and opinionated about all of it. I'm sorry if I'm rude, but I think sometimes those docs just do NOT want to listen to us.

*hands the soapbox back to Topper so she can put her legs up*

That being said...... I think I missed some of the details. Did you have any luck with the patient advocate? What did she say? Can you delay your surgery? I remember you said you don't have a lot of options for doctors there, but if there's *ANYONE* else you can see, even a nurse practitioner.........it would be worth it to me.

And that is my very uncensored personal opinion -- do with it what you will.

Love and light to you, Edumom, and I hope you can work this out and be healthy. I really do.

in LA

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I don't know what someone else will say, but I will say nothing. Free T3 and Free T4 is where you will find out something.

i have test result!

drum roll here......

are you ready?....

TSH- 1.93

no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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I don't know what someone else will say, but I will say nothing. Free T3 and Free T4 is where you will find out something.

i have test result!

drum roll here......

are you ready?....

TSH- 1.93

no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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I don't know what someone else will say, but I will say nothing. Free T3 and Free T4 is where you will find out something.

i have test result!

drum roll here......

are you ready?....

TSH- 1.93

no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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Here's the bottom line. She needs to stop this surgery NOW and find a new doctor, before it's too late. Putting your trust in a doctor enough to allow him/her to advise a surgery, when they don't even have any real information to go by is on the Outer Limits. Liking a doctor for their personality, instead of their expertise in these areas just doesn't get it. I can't feature it. Only she has the power to stop this absurdity.

Re: i have test result!

That's it... You had to wait a week to find out that they took only one test that doesn't tell you squat???

Geez.

They have to find out the cause of the enlargement on the left side.. they have to find out..

Get this, everyone... they have her scheduled to remove the left lobe, yet she is undiagnosed, they laughed when she requested antibody tests... They've put her on Armour... and now are still only testing TSH... and not trying to find out what is wrong.

I strongly believe that your back pain is adrenal stress... which again means that something has to be done about finding out what is wrong...

Any comments, suggestions from you guys.. right now I'm mad... and it's not even me.... I don't want to cross lines.... but derned.. I'm pissed....

Topper () *trying to not scream*

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I look at it like this. My TSH is a .005 or a .006. What do all of you

think of that? Think I'm hyper? Can you diagnose me from that? Many

doctors who are TSH worshippers would say that I am severly hyperthyroid,

without even batting an eyelash, because they don't even understand what

makes it all work with the thyroid. Nope, sure not hyper---Yes, my Free T3

was just over the " normal " range (tongue in cheek attitude here you can

see), which could mean that my antibodies, which are in the thousands are

blocking it from getting into the cells, and, guess what, my Free T4 was

STILL only just then at 1.2, which the " normal " on this test this time had a

top end of 1.8. Surprise, surprise, I was just barely past midrange on that

one, so, even according to THEIR attitudes, I'm just now out of hypoville,

if any of these particular doctors had even seen my testing. That higher T3

can mean 2 or 3 different things, but it doesn't mean hypo. A low T4 does.

Likely to be antibodies, since they are all so high.

This is why I wouldn't let her surgeon EVER touch me!

Re: i have test result!

> I going to assume that test is without treatment. You TSH suggests

> hypothyroid, but does not tell what the thyroid is actually doing.

> You need to find a doc (osteopath best bet) that will also test free

> T3, free T4, and antibodies and uses armour. If you think you need

> to dump this doc.

>

> To find another doc.

> Any other test (like total T3 and T4) is not worth much. Its very

> hard to find a doc that knows what he is doing, but Osteopaths are

> good for testing and treating hypothyroid. Endocrinologist have poor

> track records with thyroid. When calling the osteopath or any doctor

> call the office first and ask if that doc routinely orders Free T3

> and Free T4's and orders Armour thyroid if indicated for his

> hypothyroid patients...make an appointment if they say yes. Armour-

> prescribers are usually better at treating the patient (symptoms)

> instead of the lab sheet (ranges)... and Armour is often the better

> med for thyroid.

>

> Good luck,

> - Owner of hypopituitary support group

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Hypopituitary_support/

>

>

>

> > drum roll here......

> > are you ready?....

> > TSH- 1.93

> >

> > no, that's it....all there is....what can you tell me about this???

> >

> > sincerely, edumom

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But why is he operating to remove your thyroid? An enlarged left side of your thyroid? A nodule? This I do not understand, unLESS you have multiple nodules that are choking off your breathing and possible thyroid cancer. The character of several nodules would tell this story. Is it not true that you're having this surgery only because the left side of your thyroid is enlarged?

Re: i have test result!

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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But why is he operating to remove your thyroid? An enlarged left side of your thyroid? A nodule? This I do not understand, unLESS you have multiple nodules that are choking off your breathing and possible thyroid cancer. The character of several nodules would tell this story. Is it not true that you're having this surgery only because the left side of your thyroid is enlarged?

Re: i have test result!

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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But why is he operating to remove your thyroid? An enlarged left side of your thyroid? A nodule? This I do not understand, unLESS you have multiple nodules that are choking off your breathing and possible thyroid cancer. The character of several nodules would tell this story. Is it not true that you're having this surgery only because the left side of your thyroid is enlarged?

Re: i have test result!

ok I'm getting a little upset here...you mean a tsh level of 1.93 is hypothyroid???? My Dr says my tests were normal!!!! This was sans meds; as a favor to me, because I'd feel better being medicated before surgery, he wrote me a script for Armour.

OK, after "result", there is a heading that says "reference"- the entry is 0.20-4.67 uIU/mL. Does this clarify anything?

sincerely, edumom

The mind is its own place, and in itselfCan make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

Milton (1608–1674), British poet. Paradise Lost, bk. 1

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Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary is sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the pituitary is telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting enough out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you need to check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there that's not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for one person is not always normal for another.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Sue Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 9:10 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: i have test result!Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary is sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the pituitary is telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting enough out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you need to check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there that's not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for one person is not always normal for another.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Sue Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 9:10 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: i have test result!Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary is sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the pituitary is telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting enough out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you need to check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there that's not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for one person is not always normal for another.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

-----Original Message-----From: Sue Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 9:10 PMTo: The_Thyroid_Support_Group Subject: Re: i have test result!Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Hey I just said that is what the MEDICAL profession says... but

there seems to be a lot of animosity here for doctors. All I know is

my surgeon did a great job, my scar is amazingly healed for such a

short time, and I feel GREAT!! :) Oh and my TSH is 2.58 which is

right where both my fantastic surgeon AND GP say it should be. :)

I just think people will be lucky around here if they don't get

their butts sued off for convincing people over the Internet not to

do what their doctors tell them. :)

Sue

> Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary is

> sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the

pituitary is

> telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be

> enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting

enough

> out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you need

to

> check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there

that's

> not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for one

person

> is not always normal for another.

> Blessings,

> Debbie K.

>

> Re: i have test result!

>

>

> Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Oh dear! I was not 'normal smormaling' you! I was just venting frustration with the medical profession. I worry about law suits too, that's why I try so hard to help people fine a good doc. And I never try to tell someone what to do. Just research for yourself and make your own decisions. And yes there is a lot of animosity for docs ... docs that don't listen, docs that refuse to learn, docs that fall for the lines fed to them by drug reps. On the other hand, there are soem great docs out there, but when it comes to good thyroid docs, they just seem to be too few and far between. I'm doing much better, all because of what I learned in this group and in the books, web sites, etc that I've found recommended here.

If you feel great with a TSH of 2.58 that is wonderful. But I feel much much better with as TSH below normal. What's normal for one person is not neccessarily normal for another. This is why we have such a problem with TSH.

Please dont' be offended. As I said, the "normal smormal" was most definitely not directed at you.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Re: i have test result!> > > Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Oh dear! I was not 'normal smormaling' you! I was just venting frustration with the medical profession. I worry about law suits too, that's why I try so hard to help people fine a good doc. And I never try to tell someone what to do. Just research for yourself and make your own decisions. And yes there is a lot of animosity for docs ... docs that don't listen, docs that refuse to learn, docs that fall for the lines fed to them by drug reps. On the other hand, there are soem great docs out there, but when it comes to good thyroid docs, they just seem to be too few and far between. I'm doing much better, all because of what I learned in this group and in the books, web sites, etc that I've found recommended here.

If you feel great with a TSH of 2.58 that is wonderful. But I feel much much better with as TSH below normal. What's normal for one person is not neccessarily normal for another. This is why we have such a problem with TSH.

Please dont' be offended. As I said, the "normal smormal" was most definitely not directed at you.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Re: i have test result!> > > Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Oh dear! I was not 'normal smormaling' you! I was just venting frustration with the medical profession. I worry about law suits too, that's why I try so hard to help people fine a good doc. And I never try to tell someone what to do. Just research for yourself and make your own decisions. And yes there is a lot of animosity for docs ... docs that don't listen, docs that refuse to learn, docs that fall for the lines fed to them by drug reps. On the other hand, there are soem great docs out there, but when it comes to good thyroid docs, they just seem to be too few and far between. I'm doing much better, all because of what I learned in this group and in the books, web sites, etc that I've found recommended here.

If you feel great with a TSH of 2.58 that is wonderful. But I feel much much better with as TSH below normal. What's normal for one person is not neccessarily normal for another. This is why we have such a problem with TSH.

Please dont' be offended. As I said, the "normal smormal" was most definitely not directed at you.

Blessings,

Debbie K.

Re: i have test result!> > > Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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Hi Debbie

Hey I didn't mean to be offensive either... I would just like to see

a medical reference somewhere saying TSH doesn't matter; I haven't

found one.

And I am well aware that a lot of people have " nightmare stories "

about their doctors; and not all live in areas where they can go

find other good ones if not happy with the current one.

Actually my doctor IS taking Free T3 and Free T4 tests on me; she

said they are very simple to do and that I will feel a lot better if

she does it, even though I feel great after the surgery. She plans

to keep testing me every 6 months or so; more often if I have

problems.

Sorry if I sounded as if I was accusing YOU specifically of advising

people to ignore their doctors; I didn't mean to do so. Just seems

to be a " common occurrence " <G>

Sue

> > Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary

is

> > sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the

> pituitary is

> > telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be

> > enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting

> enough

> > out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you

need

> to

> > check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there

> that's

> > not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for

one

> person

> > is not always normal for another.

> > Blessings,

> > Debbie K.

> >

> > Re: i have test result!

> >

> >

> > Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

>

>

>

>

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Hi Debbie

Hey I didn't mean to be offensive either... I would just like to see

a medical reference somewhere saying TSH doesn't matter; I haven't

found one.

And I am well aware that a lot of people have " nightmare stories "

about their doctors; and not all live in areas where they can go

find other good ones if not happy with the current one.

Actually my doctor IS taking Free T3 and Free T4 tests on me; she

said they are very simple to do and that I will feel a lot better if

she does it, even though I feel great after the surgery. She plans

to keep testing me every 6 months or so; more often if I have

problems.

Sorry if I sounded as if I was accusing YOU specifically of advising

people to ignore their doctors; I didn't mean to do so. Just seems

to be a " common occurrence " <G>

Sue

> > Normal smormal! If there is any TSH at all, then the pituitary

is

> > sending a message to the thyroid to put out more. If the

> pituitary is

> > telling the thyroid that more T4 is needed then there must not be

> > enough. If there is not enough, the the thyroid is not putting

> enough

> > out. I think any TSH at all should raise eyebrows. What you

need

> to

> > check is the Free T3 and Free T4. That is how much is out there

> that's

> > not being used. Also need to go by how you feel. Normal for

one

> person

> > is not always normal for another.

> > Blessings,

> > Debbie K.

> >

> > Re: i have test result!

> >

> >

> > Hi... just jumping in here.. but 1.93 is within normal range.

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