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You cannot pay a therapist $65.00/hour and run a private practice. The

numbers do not work based on the current industry payor schedules. I know,

I run a private practice.

Thanks,

Barker F. II

Clinical Director

Lakeway Aquatic Therapy & Wellness Center

P.O. Box 342348

1927 Lohmans Crossing, Suite 100

Austin, TX 78734

-Office Tel.

- Office Fax

- Mobile

www.lakewayaquatics.com

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the number listed.

Re: Salaries

This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my

first PT job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

probationary period. One thing to note, the service industry though

varied, has generally seen wage compression and stagnation over the

past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on this periodically.)

The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period

(and actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went

onto hiring Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing

multiple disciplines over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

$70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

>

> As far as salaries for new grads are concerned, they fall anywhere

> from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the setting and locale.

> Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the Physician or PT

> owned practices, and long-term care facilities.

>

> Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan assistance,

> relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

>

> Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus (i.e. $5-10k), but

> then having them sign a contract that if they leave within 2 years

> they have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a year for

> student loans with the hope that they will stay several years to pay

> off the student loans.

>

> Mike is right in that this appears to be the entitlement generation

> of PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with their DPT

> status. You'd be surprised how many new graduates with their DPT, no

> clinical experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+ with

> bonus potential.

>

> My question would be, what kind of expectations are they teaching

> them at the university? The other pet peeve is that they all want

> outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more balanced they would be

> in their clinical skills if they would have experience in inpatient

> therapy too.

>

> Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

>

> annefrederick @cox.net

> http://www.rehabresource.com

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

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Does anyone in the group know how I can hire a chiorpractor to work at the

practice and carry his own case load for workmans comp and issurance patients

and i bill for his services through the practice much like a group practice. I

am in Texas and I am not sure if there is any law against that. I know that

if he is working on patients that I evaluate and do a plan of care he is

working as an aide but if he is in the practice and only does chiropractic

treatment and then refers the patients to his associate for physical therapy

and

vice versa. I can hire a chiro for about 35,000 to 40000 down here. thanks if

someone can help me.

onuwa terry, pt

onuwa@...

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Does anyone in the group know how I can hire a chiorpractor to work at the

practice and carry his own case load for workmans comp and issurance patients

and i bill for his services through the practice much like a group practice. I

am in Texas and I am not sure if there is any law against that. I know that

if he is working on patients that I evaluate and do a plan of care he is

working as an aide but if he is in the practice and only does chiropractic

treatment and then refers the patients to his associate for physical therapy

and

vice versa. I can hire a chiro for about 35,000 to 40000 down here. thanks if

someone can help me.

onuwa terry, pt

onuwa@...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you made

below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent of a

" qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has been that

entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different in confidence or

capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT

new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management

position, I want to see a history of actually handling responsibility, not just

a degree that says they know the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

$70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may

contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

the entity to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

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Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you made

below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent of a

" qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has been that

entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different in confidence or

capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT

new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management

position, I want to see a history of actually handling responsibility, not just

a degree that says they know the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

$70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may

contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

the entity to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

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Share on other sites

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you made

below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent of a

" qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has been that

entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different in confidence or

capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT

new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management

position, I want to see a history of actually handling responsibility, not just

a degree that says they know the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

$70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may

contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

the entity to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

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Some therapist go back to chiro school for direct access in Texas. It is not

uncommon to self refer in this situation, nor would it be wrong to hire a

Chiro for direct access. There is no law against this. Just verify that your

MCOs will accept him as part of your group and you should be ok. Of course,

most New Grad Chiros in South Texas start off at 80k. Let me know if you

have some Chiro's willing to work for less :)

Thanks,

Ives Soto

Business Manager

Accent Therapy

Re: Re: Salaries

> Does anyone in the group know how I can hire a chiorpractor to work at the

> practice and carry his own case load for workmans comp and issurance

> patients

> and i bill for his services through the practice much like a group

> practice. I

> am in Texas and I am not sure if there is any law against that. I know

> that

> if he is working on patients that I evaluate and do a plan of care he is

> working as an aide but if he is in the practice and only does

> chiropractic

> treatment and then refers the patients to his associate for physical

> therapy and

> vice versa. I can hire a chiro for about 35,000 to 40000 down here.

> thanks if

> someone can help me.

>

>

> onuwa terry, pt

> onuwa@...

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Some therapist go back to chiro school for direct access in Texas. It is not

uncommon to self refer in this situation, nor would it be wrong to hire a

Chiro for direct access. There is no law against this. Just verify that your

MCOs will accept him as part of your group and you should be ok. Of course,

most New Grad Chiros in South Texas start off at 80k. Let me know if you

have some Chiro's willing to work for less :)

Thanks,

Ives Soto

Business Manager

Accent Therapy

Re: Re: Salaries

> Does anyone in the group know how I can hire a chiorpractor to work at the

> practice and carry his own case load for workmans comp and issurance

> patients

> and i bill for his services through the practice much like a group

> practice. I

> am in Texas and I am not sure if there is any law against that. I know

> that

> if he is working on patients that I evaluate and do a plan of care he is

> working as an aide but if he is in the practice and only does

> chiropractic

> treatment and then refers the patients to his associate for physical

> therapy and

> vice versa. I can hire a chiro for about 35,000 to 40000 down here.

> thanks if

> someone can help me.

>

>

> onuwa terry, pt

> onuwa@...

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently completed compiling the data for PT Benchmark 2005. The median

hourly wage info for PTs follows:

<= 1 yr experience: $24.64

1-4 yrs $28.50

5-10 yrs $30.43

> 10 yrs $32.98

This is based on info from 47 locations across the country including 178

different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

Contact me if you'd like more info.

Chuck

R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

HCS Consulting, Inc.

PO Box 9815

Newport Beach, CA 92658

Phone:

Mobile:

Fax:

Email: CFelder@...

www.HCSconsulting.com

This message contains confidential information intended only for the

individual named and is protected from disclosure. If you are not the

intended recipient you should delete this message, not use or disclose it in

any form and contact the sender.

Re: Salaries

This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my first PT

job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a probationary period. One

thing to note, the service industry though varied, has generally seen wage

compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on

this periodically.)

The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period (and

actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went onto hiring

Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing multiple disciplines

over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab Manager in 1983 for

$65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K to manage a clinic - They

fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

>

> As far as salaries for new grads are concerned, they fall anywhere

> from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the setting and locale.

> Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the Physician or PT owned

> practices, and long-term care facilities.

>

> Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan assistance,

> relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

>

> Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> having them sign a contract that if they leave within 2 years they

> have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a year for student loans

> with the hope that they will stay several years to pay off the student

> loans.

>

> Mike is right in that this appears to be the entitlement generation of

> PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with their DPT status.

> You'd be surprised how many new graduates with their DPT, no clinical

> experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+ with bonus

> potential.

>

> My question would be, what kind of expectations are they teaching them

> at the university? The other pet peeve is that they all want

> outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more balanced they would be in

> their clinical skills if they would have experience in inpatient

> therapy too.

>

> Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

>

> annefrederick @cox.net

> http://www.rehabresource.com

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently completed compiling the data for PT Benchmark 2005. The median

hourly wage info for PTs follows:

<= 1 yr experience: $24.64

1-4 yrs $28.50

5-10 yrs $30.43

> 10 yrs $32.98

This is based on info from 47 locations across the country including 178

different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

Contact me if you'd like more info.

Chuck

R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

HCS Consulting, Inc.

PO Box 9815

Newport Beach, CA 92658

Phone:

Mobile:

Fax:

Email: CFelder@...

www.HCSconsulting.com

This message contains confidential information intended only for the

individual named and is protected from disclosure. If you are not the

intended recipient you should delete this message, not use or disclose it in

any form and contact the sender.

Re: Salaries

This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my first PT

job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a probationary period. One

thing to note, the service industry though varied, has generally seen wage

compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on

this periodically.)

The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period (and

actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went onto hiring

Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing multiple disciplines

over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab Manager in 1983 for

$65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K to manage a clinic - They

fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

>

> As far as salaries for new grads are concerned, they fall anywhere

> from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the setting and locale.

> Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the Physician or PT owned

> practices, and long-term care facilities.

>

> Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan assistance,

> relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

>

> Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> having them sign a contract that if they leave within 2 years they

> have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a year for student loans

> with the hope that they will stay several years to pay off the student

> loans.

>

> Mike is right in that this appears to be the entitlement generation of

> PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with their DPT status.

> You'd be surprised how many new graduates with their DPT, no clinical

> experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+ with bonus

> potential.

>

> My question would be, what kind of expectations are they teaching them

> at the university? The other pet peeve is that they all want

> outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more balanced they would be in

> their clinical skills if they would have experience in inpatient

> therapy too.

>

> Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

>

> annefrederick @cox.net

> http://www.rehabresource.com

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brett,

I agree with you regarding the direction we need to take as a

profession. My only concern is that the DPT does not meet the high

standards that it should in order to have real credibility. For example

in countries like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and some European

countries students first complete a BSPT which is typically 4 years,

they then complete their Masters which is typically another 2 years,

during this time they attend classes, both theoretical knowledge and

clinical time, they complete an intensive research project and also

continue to work in clinical practice with mentors. There are some

schools in foreign countries that do offer a Doctorate which typically

may take another 2-3 years to complete. Now when you complete all this

course work and clinical practice, then you can really say you have a

DPT.

My concerns about the credibility of our DPT are shared by many of my PT

colleagues, and some physicians that I have worked with also question

whether the education and clinical experience required for a DPT is

really sufficient to justify the title.

I think we need to start moving from the political response towards

creating a DPT program that has credibility within the Rehab professions

as well as the Medical Community as a whole.

Regards,

Wayne Hadley, PT

Re: Re: Salaries

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you

made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent

of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has

been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different

in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5

years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm

hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a history of

actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that says they know

the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are selling

themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain

confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No

confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and

notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,

distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the

intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all

e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions

expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender,

except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf

of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity

to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brett,

I agree with you regarding the direction we need to take as a

profession. My only concern is that the DPT does not meet the high

standards that it should in order to have real credibility. For example

in countries like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and some European

countries students first complete a BSPT which is typically 4 years,

they then complete their Masters which is typically another 2 years,

during this time they attend classes, both theoretical knowledge and

clinical time, they complete an intensive research project and also

continue to work in clinical practice with mentors. There are some

schools in foreign countries that do offer a Doctorate which typically

may take another 2-3 years to complete. Now when you complete all this

course work and clinical practice, then you can really say you have a

DPT.

My concerns about the credibility of our DPT are shared by many of my PT

colleagues, and some physicians that I have worked with also question

whether the education and clinical experience required for a DPT is

really sufficient to justify the title.

I think we need to start moving from the political response towards

creating a DPT program that has credibility within the Rehab professions

as well as the Medical Community as a whole.

Regards,

Wayne Hadley, PT

Re: Re: Salaries

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you

made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent

of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has

been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different

in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5

years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm

hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a history of

actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that says they know

the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are selling

themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain

confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No

confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and

notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,

distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the

intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all

e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions

expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender,

except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf

of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity

to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck,

Thanks for this information. Is there a breakdown of

settings in your data. Here the competition is the

SNF's where they are paying upwards of $35 per hour.

Acute care is around $28 on average. I am not sure of

private practices.

Thanks for any info you can give.

Laurie Gilmore PT

Flager Hospital

St. Augustine, Fl

--- Chuck Felder wrote:

> I recently completed compiling the data for PT

> Benchmark 2005. The median

> hourly wage info for PTs follows:

>

> <= 1 yr experience: $24.64

> 1-4 yrs $28.50

> 5-10 yrs $30.43

> > 10 yrs $32.98

>

> This is based on info from 47 locations across the

> country including 178

> different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

>

> Contact me if you'd like more info.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

> HCS Consulting, Inc.

> PO Box 9815

> Newport Beach, CA 92658

> Phone:

> Mobile:

> Fax:

> Email: CFelder@...

> www.HCSconsulting.com

>

> This message contains confidential information

> intended only for the

> individual named and is protected from disclosure.

> If you are not the

> intended recipient you should delete this message,

> not use or disclose it in

> any form and contact the sender.

>

> Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT

> in 1979, and my first PT

> job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One

> thing to note, the service industry though varied,

> has generally seen wage

> compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years

> ( Reich rales on

> this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my

> probationary period (and

> actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and

> eventually went onto hiring

> Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation

> managing multiple disciplines

> over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for

> $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

> to manage a clinic - They

> fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves

> short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your

> professional association. Join

> and participate now!

>

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Share on other sites

Ok, so we are looking at about $33/hour. That is more like it for a PT who

has at least 5 years experience.

Thanks,

Barker F. II

Clinical Director

Lakeway Aquatic Therapy & Wellness Center

P.O. Box 342348

1927 Lohmans Crossing, Suite 100

Austin, TX 78734

-Office Tel.

- Office Fax

- Mobile

www.lakewayaquatics.com

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing, or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email or contact the sender at

the number listed.

Re: Salaries

, I guess something was lost in translation. That's

$65,000/year, not $65/hour.

Ken, sorry for not making that clear. An effective rehab manager

deserves the same rate irrespective of years experience, race, sex,

discipline or degree - to my mind. Also, a new grad with a DPT today

is most certainly more qualified than the BS PT I was 25 yrs ago.

Joe Libera

> Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements

you made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the

equivalent of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

>

> I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation

has been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much

different in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was

hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years

ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a

history of actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that

says they know the theory.

>

> Ken Tuley, PT

> Health First, Inc.

> Brevard County, FL

>

> >>> jlibera@t... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

> ...

> I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

> ##############################################################

> This message is for the named person's use only. It may

> contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

> information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

> lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

> in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

> from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

> the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

> disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

> if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

> the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

> networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

> are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

> the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

> a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

> the entity to give such views or opinions.

> ##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

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Share on other sites

Ok, so we are looking at about $33/hour. That is more like it for a PT who

has at least 5 years experience.

Thanks,

Barker F. II

Clinical Director

Lakeway Aquatic Therapy & Wellness Center

P.O. Box 342348

1927 Lohmans Crossing, Suite 100

Austin, TX 78734

-Office Tel.

- Office Fax

- Mobile

www.lakewayaquatics.com

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing, or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email or contact the sender at

the number listed.

Re: Salaries

, I guess something was lost in translation. That's

$65,000/year, not $65/hour.

Ken, sorry for not making that clear. An effective rehab manager

deserves the same rate irrespective of years experience, race, sex,

discipline or degree - to my mind. Also, a new grad with a DPT today

is most certainly more qualified than the BS PT I was 25 yrs ago.

Joe Libera

> Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements

you made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the

equivalent of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

>

> I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation

has been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much

different in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was

hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years

ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a

history of actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that

says they know the theory.

>

> Ken Tuley, PT

> Health First, Inc.

> Brevard County, FL

>

> >>> jlibera@t... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

> ...

> I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

> ##############################################################

> This message is for the named person's use only. It may

> contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

> information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

> lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

> in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

> from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

> the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

> disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

> if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

> the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

> networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

> are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

> the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

> a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

> the entity to give such views or opinions.

> ##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, so we are looking at about $33/hour. That is more like it for a PT who

has at least 5 years experience.

Thanks,

Barker F. II

Clinical Director

Lakeway Aquatic Therapy & Wellness Center

P.O. Box 342348

1927 Lohmans Crossing, Suite 100

Austin, TX 78734

-Office Tel.

- Office Fax

- Mobile

www.lakewayaquatics.com

This email and any files transmitted with it may contain PRVILEGED or

CONFIDENTIAL information and may be read or used only by the intended

recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of the email or any of its

attachments, please be advised that you have received this email in error

and that any use, dissemination, distribution, forwarding, printing, or

copying of this email or any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this email in error, please immediately purge it and all

attachments and notify the sender by reply email or contact the sender at

the number listed.

Re: Salaries

, I guess something was lost in translation. That's

$65,000/year, not $65/hour.

Ken, sorry for not making that clear. An effective rehab manager

deserves the same rate irrespective of years experience, race, sex,

discipline or degree - to my mind. Also, a new grad with a DPT today

is most certainly more qualified than the BS PT I was 25 yrs ago.

Joe Libera

> Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements

you made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the

equivalent of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

>

> I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation

has been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much

different in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was

hiring 3-5 years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years

ago. If I'm hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a

history of actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that

says they know the theory.

>

> Ken Tuley, PT

> Health First, Inc.

> Brevard County, FL

>

> >>> jlibera@t... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

> ...

> I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

> ##############################################################

> This message is for the named person's use only. It may

> contain confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged

> information. No confidentiality or privilege is waived or

> lost by any mistransmission. If you receive this message

> in error, please immediately delete it and all copies of it

> from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and notify

> the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use,

> disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message

> if you are not the intended recipient. Health First reserves

> the right to monitor all e-mail communications through its

> networks. Any views or opinions expressed in this message

> are solely those of the individual sender, except (1) where

> the message states such views or opinions are on behalf of

> a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by

> the entity to give such views or opinions.

> ##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

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Share on other sites

Wayne,

Funny you say that because I am Australian trained and I absolutely

agree with your comments - the degree itself is no more useful right now

than a Masters degree, but, having said that it is a young degree and I

would hope that over time it ill evolve into something approaching the

commonwealth training.

Brett Windsor, PT, OCS, COMT, FAAOMPT

Director of Ancillary Services

The Vancouver Clinic

(office)

Re: Re: Salaries

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you

made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent

of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has

been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different

in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5

years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm

hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a history of

actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that says they know

the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are selling

themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain

confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No

confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and

notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,

distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the

intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all

e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions

expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender,

except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf

of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity

to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck,

Can you comment on the variance from the 2004 data showing >10yrs

practice a median salary of $38.33 with this 2005 data of $32.98. Do I

have my information wrong or is there a median decrease in salary noted

this year from previous? And , your ideas of why there would be this

decrease.

Thanks.

Betsy Bjoralt PT

MeritCare Hospital

Fargo ND

>>> lhgilmore@... 10/4/2005 9:44:58 AM >>>

Chuck,

Thanks for this information. Is there a breakdown of

settings in your data. Here the competition is the

SNF's where they are paying upwards of $35 per hour.

Acute care is around $28 on average. I am not sure of

private practices.

Thanks for any info you can give.

Laurie Gilmore PT

Flager Hospital

St. Augustine, Fl

--- Chuck Felder wrote:

> I recently completed compiling the data for PT

> Benchmark 2005. The median

> hourly wage info for PTs follows:

>

> <= 1 yr experience: $24.64

> 1-4 yrs $28.50

> 5-10 yrs $30.43

> > 10 yrs $32.98

>

> This is based on info from 47 locations across the

> country including 178

> different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

>

> Contact me if you'd like more info.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

> HCS Consulting, Inc.

> PO Box 9815

> Newport Beach, CA 92658

> Phone:

> Mobile:

> Fax:

> Email: CFelder@...

> www.HCSconsulting.com

>

> This message contains confidential information

> intended only for the

> individual named and is protected from disclosure.

> If you are not the

> intended recipient you should delete this message,

> not use or disclose it in

> any form and contact the sender.

>

> Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT

> in 1979, and my first PT

> job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One

> thing to note, the service industry though varied,

> has generally seen wage

> compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years

> ( Reich rales on

> this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my

> probationary period (and

> actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and

> eventually went onto hiring

> Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation

> managing multiple disciplines

> over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for

> $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

> to manage a clinic - They

> fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves

> short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your

> professional association. Join

> and participate now!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chuck,

Can you comment on the variance from the 2004 data showing >10yrs

practice a median salary of $38.33 with this 2005 data of $32.98. Do I

have my information wrong or is there a median decrease in salary noted

this year from previous? And , your ideas of why there would be this

decrease.

Thanks.

Betsy Bjoralt PT

MeritCare Hospital

Fargo ND

>>> lhgilmore@... 10/4/2005 9:44:58 AM >>>

Chuck,

Thanks for this information. Is there a breakdown of

settings in your data. Here the competition is the

SNF's where they are paying upwards of $35 per hour.

Acute care is around $28 on average. I am not sure of

private practices.

Thanks for any info you can give.

Laurie Gilmore PT

Flager Hospital

St. Augustine, Fl

--- Chuck Felder wrote:

> I recently completed compiling the data for PT

> Benchmark 2005. The median

> hourly wage info for PTs follows:

>

> <= 1 yr experience: $24.64

> 1-4 yrs $28.50

> 5-10 yrs $30.43

> > 10 yrs $32.98

>

> This is based on info from 47 locations across the

> country including 178

> different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

>

> Contact me if you'd like more info.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

> HCS Consulting, Inc.

> PO Box 9815

> Newport Beach, CA 92658

> Phone:

> Mobile:

> Fax:

> Email: CFelder@...

> www.HCSconsulting.com

>

> This message contains confidential information

> intended only for the

> individual named and is protected from disclosure.

> If you are not the

> intended recipient you should delete this message,

> not use or disclose it in

> any form and contact the sender.

>

> Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT

> in 1979, and my first PT

> job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One

> thing to note, the service industry though varied,

> has generally seen wage

> compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years

> ( Reich rales on

> this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my

> probationary period (and

> actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and

> eventually went onto hiring

> Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation

> managing multiple disciplines

> over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for

> $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

> to manage a clinic - They

> fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves

> short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your

> professional association. Join

> and participate now!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brett;

Those are my thoughts on this matter also.

I can only imagine what I could do with a DPT. So, some new grad, (with all the

attitude of entitlement) gets to promote themselves as a DPT. As if someone who

has this entry level knowledge, which by the way isn't any different than it was

or is between the MS programs and probably the BS programs of yester-year, is

going to make this huge difference. The Nat'l PT Exam is still the same if you

have a DPT or an MS isn't it? Are they passing at a higher rate? I don't know,

but doubt it.

What makes the most sense to me is to have a DPT after some true PT experience.

Similar to serving as a medical student then a resident, and then a full doctor.

That is how we will gain respect.

2 things need to occur in order for this to happen. First of all the law is

going to have to change to allow PT residents to bill for services rendered,

this includes medicare. Attacking this change in Medicare should be the first

on this agenda. Another reason this needs to happen is for the resident PT to

have more responsibility and something at stake. They would also be allowed to

receive a paycheck too. Secondly, we need PT's who can A)teach residents and

residents to teach students. B) PT's who can then teach residents to become

doctors.

Ultimately the only way this could be implemented is if it were made mandatory.

I would behoove educators to push for this but I doubt it will happen.

Zerr, PT

www.summitpt.com

www.apluspt.com

rom: " Wayne Hadley "

Date: 2005/10/04 Tue AM 09:08:14 EDT

To: <PTManager >

Subject: RE: Re: Salaries

Brett,

I agree with you regarding the direction we need to take as a

profession. My only concern is that the DPT does not meet the high

standards that it should in order to have real credibility. For example

in countries like New Zealand, Australia, South Africa and some European

countries students first complete a BSPT which is typically 4 years,

they then complete their Masters which is typically another 2 years,

during this time they attend classes, both theoretical knowledge and

clinical time, they complete an intensive research project and also

continue to work in clinical practice with mentors. There are some

schools in foreign countries that do offer a Doctorate which typically

may take another 2-3 years to complete. Now when you complete all this

course work and clinical practice, then you can really say you have a

DPT.

My concerns about the credibility of our DPT are shared by many of my PT

colleagues, and some physicians that I have worked with also question

whether the education and clinical experience required for a DPT is

really sufficient to justify the title.

I think we need to start moving from the political response towards

creating a DPT program that has credibility within the Rehab professions

as well as the Medical Community as a whole.

Regards,

Wayne Hadley, PT

Re: Re: Salaries

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you

made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent

of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has

been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different

in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5

years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm

hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a history of

actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that says they know

the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are selling

themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

This message is for the named person's use only. It may contain

confidential, proprietary, or legally privileged information. No

confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it, and

notify the sender. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose,

distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the

intended recipient. Health First reserves the right to monitor all

e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions

expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender,

except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf

of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity

to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join and participate now!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laurie,

There were no participants from FL.

Chuck

R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

HCS Consulting, Inc.

PO Box 9815

Newport Beach, CA 92658

Phone:

Mobile:

Fax:

Email: CFelder@...

www.HCSconsulting.com

This message contains confidential information intended only for the

individual named and is protected from disclosure. If you are not the

intended recipient you should delete this message, not use or disclose it in

any form and contact the sender.

Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my

> first PT job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One thing to note, the service industry though

> varied, has generally seen wage compression and stagnation over the

> past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period

> (and actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went

> onto hiring Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing

> multiple disciplines over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laurie,

There were no participants from FL.

Chuck

R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

HCS Consulting, Inc.

PO Box 9815

Newport Beach, CA 92658

Phone:

Mobile:

Fax:

Email: CFelder@...

www.HCSconsulting.com

This message contains confidential information intended only for the

individual named and is protected from disclosure. If you are not the

intended recipient you should delete this message, not use or disclose it in

any form and contact the sender.

Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my

> first PT job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One thing to note, the service industry though

> varied, has generally seen wage compression and stagnation over the

> past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period

> (and actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went

> onto hiring Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing

> multiple disciplines over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Laurie,

There were no participants from FL.

Chuck

R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

HCS Consulting, Inc.

PO Box 9815

Newport Beach, CA 92658

Phone:

Mobile:

Fax:

Email: CFelder@...

www.HCSconsulting.com

This message contains confidential information intended only for the

individual named and is protected from disclosure. If you are not the

intended recipient you should delete this message, not use or disclose it in

any form and contact the sender.

Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT in 1979, and my

> first PT job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One thing to note, the service industry though

> varied, has generally seen wage compression and stagnation over the

> past 15-20 years ( Reich rales on this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my probationary period

> (and actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and eventually went

> onto hiring Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation managing

> multiple disciplines over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want

> $70K to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are

> selling themselves short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

> Join and participate now!

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

,

You hit the nail on the head. The biggest challenge will be to get

educators and schools to push for this type of change, which as you say,

is doubtful since they have it pretty easy right now considering their

level of effort to turn out students with DPT's vs. the effort of other

educators who train/teach at the Doctoral level. I also don't see this

push coming from the APTA and I think the real push will have to come

from State of Federal Government.

Wayne Hadley, PT

Re: Re: Salaries

Sorry, but I fail to see the relationship between the two statements you

made below. What would make a new DPT with no experience the equivalent

of a " qualified Rehab Manager " ?

I've hired some new-grad DPTs in recent years, and my observation has

been that entry-level PTs are still entry-level PTs, not much different

in confidence or capabilities from the MS PT new grads I was hiring 3-5

years ago or the BS PT new grads I was hiring 20+ years ago. If I'm

hiring someone for a management position, I want to see a history of

actually handling responsibility, not just a degree that says they know

the theory.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> jlibera@... 10/01/05 11:16 AM >>>

....

I hired a qualified Rehab

Manager in 1983 for $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

to manage a clinic - They fully deserve it! (and they are selling

themselves short in the process)

Joe Libera

##############################################################

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confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any mistransmission.

If you receive this message in error, please immediately delete it and

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e-mail communications through its networks. Any views or opinions

expressed in this message are solely those of the individual sender,

except (1) where the message states such views or opinions are on behalf

of a particular entity; and (2) the sender is authorized by the entity

to give such views or opinions.

##############################################################

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PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join and participate now!

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I'm afraid I'd have a hard time giving much credence to a national salary survey

that consisted of only 47 locations and 120 FTEs. I have almost half that many

FTEs in my own organization alone.

Ken Tuley, PT

Health First, Inc.

Brevard County, FL

>>> Betsy.Bjoralt@... 10/04/2005 2:19:16 PM >>>

Chuck,

Can you comment on the variance from the 2004 data showing >10yrs

practice a median salary of $38.33 with this 2005 data of $32.98. Do I

have my information wrong or is there a median decrease in salary noted

this year from previous? And , your ideas of why there would be this

decrease.

Thanks.

Betsy Bjoralt PT

MeritCare Hospital

Fargo ND

>>> lhgilmore@... 10/4/2005 9:44:58 AM >>>

Chuck,

Thanks for this information. Is there a breakdown of

settings in your data. Here the competition is the

SNF's where they are paying upwards of $35 per hour.

Acute care is around $28 on average. I am not sure of

private practices.

Thanks for any info you can give.

Laurie Gilmore PT

Flager Hospital

St. Augustine, Fl

--- Chuck Felder wrote:

> I recently completed compiling the data for PT

> Benchmark 2005. The median

> hourly wage info for PTs follows:

>

> <= 1 yr experience: $24.64

> 1-4 yrs $28.50

> 5-10 yrs $30.43

> > 10 yrs $32.98

>

> This is based on info from 47 locations across the

> country including 178

> different people totaling just over 120 FTEs.

>

> Contact me if you'd like more info.

>

> Chuck

>

>

> R. Felder, PT, SCS, ATC, MBA

> HCS Consulting, Inc.

> PO Box 9815

> Newport Beach, CA 92658

> Phone:

> Mobile:

> Fax:

> Email: CFelder@...

> www.HCSconsulting.com

>

> This message contains confidential information

> intended only for the

> individual named and is protected from disclosure.

> If you are not the

> intended recipient you should delete this message,

> not use or disclose it in

> any form and contact the sender.

>

> Re: Salaries

>

> This is fascinating Anne. I graduated with a BSPT

> in 1979, and my first PT

> job for the State paid all of $7.75/hour during a

> probationary period. One

> thing to note, the service industry though varied,

> has generally seen wage

> compression and stagnation over the past 15-20 years

> ( Reich rales on

> this periodically.)

>

> The good news for me is that I graduated from my

> probationary period (and

> actually, moved out of a boarding house!!) and

> eventually went onto hiring

> Rehab Managers and Directors of Rehabilitation

> managing multiple disciplines

> over multiple sites. I hired a qualified Rehab

> Manager in 1983 for

> $65.000. It is no wonder that new DPT's want $70K

> to manage a clinic - They

> fully deserve it! (and they are selling themselves

> short in the process)

>

> Joe Libera

>

>

> >

> > As far as salaries for new grads are concerned,

> they fall anywhere

> > from $43k to $70k nationwide depending on the

> setting and locale.

> > Some of the rural areas pay the most, as do the

> Physician or PT owned

> > practices, and long-term care facilities.

> >

> > Benefits may include a sign-on bonus, student loan

> assistance,

> > relocation assistance, continuing education, etc.

> >

> > Some of my clients are paying a sign-on bonus

> (i.e. $5-10k), but then

> > having them sign a contract that if they leave

> within 2 years they

> > have to pay the money back. OR, pay them $5k a

> year for student loans

> > with the hope that they will stay several years to

> pay off the student

> > loans.

> >

> > Mike is right in that this appears to be the

> entitlement generation of

> > PT's. I think some of that reason has to do with

> their DPT status.

> > You'd be surprised how many new graduates with

> their DPT, no clinical

> > experience, want to manage a clinic and make $70k+

> with bonus

> > potential.

> >

> > My question would be, what kind of expectations

> are they teaching them

> > at the university? The other pet peeve is that

> they all want

> > outpatient ortho. That's it! How much more

> balanced they would be in

> > their clinical skills if they would have

> experience in inpatient

> > therapy too.

> >

> > Anne A. Frederick, M.A., CCC/SLP

> > RehabResource - Rehab Recruitment Specialists

> >

> > annefrederick @cox.net

> > http://www.rehabresource.com

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start and own 100% of your own Practice?

>

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> PTManager encourages participation in your

> professional association. Join

> and participate now!

>

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