RE: causes of inflammation

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxins/dioxins.html

----------------------------

January 18, 2006

Chris-

>Fats, proteins and carbs can all be converted to one another but the

>enzymatic reactions are multi-step and rather complex and it sounds

>like they are just trying to make a bunch of mumbo jumbo sound like

>science to a lay reader.

How can fats and carbs be converted to proteins in the human body?

>You mean know the answer, or know Ravnskov's position? The latter is

>that there is no evidence blood triglycerides are harmful. Tom

>Cowan's position (hahaha) is that they are an index of excessive carb

>consumption to exercise ratio but not harmful in and of themselves. I

>personally haven't seen anything definitive, but I'm not convinced we

>can rule out any harmful influence of high triglycerides.

I think it's pretty well established that eating lots of carbs causes

triglycerides to shoot up, so as unpleasant as I find it, I have to

admit that Cowan's not entirely wrong on that. <g>

-

January 18, 2006

,

> How can fats and carbs be converted to proteins in the human body?

Well they'd need nitrogen that I guess would have to come from other

protein but the basic molecular deconstructions of both can be used to

synthesize amino acids, which then get synthesized into proteins. I'm

not saying you could make a protein entirely out of carbohydrate or

fat building blocks, but if you radioisotope-marked all of your carb

or fat, I'm sure you'd end up finding some of that marker in the

proteins you synthesize.

> >You mean know the answer, or know Ravnskov's position? The latter is

> >that there is no evidence blood triglycerides are harmful. Tom

> >Cowan's position (hahaha) is that they are an index of excessive carb

> >consumption to exercise ratio but not harmful in and of themselves. I

> >personally haven't seen anything definitive, but I'm not convinced we

> >can rule out any harmful influence of high triglycerides.

>

> I think it's pretty well established that eating lots of carbs causes

> triglycerides to shoot up, so as unpleasant as I find it, I have to

> admit that Cowan's not entirely wrong on that. <g>

Heh... well I just thought you'd get a kick out of citing Tom Cowan

for anything. LOL.

Chris

--

Dioxins in Animal Foods:

A Case For Vegetarianism?

Find Out the Truth:

January 18, 2006

Idol wrote:

> I think it's pretty well established that eating lots of carbs causes

> triglycerides to shoot up, so as unpleasant as I find it, I have to

> admit that Cowan's not entirely wrong on that. <g>

, I don't know if you looked at my post of my triglyceride levels

on different diets. Don't you think it's interesting that my

triglyceride level was cut in half going from SAD to macrobiotic (a

high carb diet)? Of course, on NT it was cut in half again.

At least for me, the high complex carb (higher in carbs total than my

SAD diet) diet lowered my triglycerides. I'm not advocating

macrobiotics (not at all!!); I just found it interesting.

Also, when I went on macro, I found myself feeling very steady

throughout the day w/out the sugar highs and lows from SAD. In fact,

I'd never realized I'd had sugar highs and lows until I went on macro

and was amazed at how steady I was throughout the day. That

steadinesss has remained with NT (of course). Macro, though, is not

low-fat, though, it's just high in olive & sesame oils. (again, not

advocating it! just finding it interesting how diet affects things.)

January 18, 2006

Suze-

>Oh Dan, this is so great! Thanks for sharing that. I'm about to run out of

>Wobenzym and I just haven't figured out whether I want to continue it with

>my 15 yr. old min pin, or try a different systemic enzyme with fewer crappy

>fillers. I just haven't found one yet. (She's got disc issues.)

What kind of disc issues?

The more I look into it, the more impressed I am with cetyl

myristoleate, and it's certainly had a near-magical effect on me, so

you might want to try that.

-

January 18, 2006

The small hard lump that you spoke of could be many things, I wouldn't give

him something like that cancer cure unless I knew what it was. Homeopathy is

your best bet, but depending on the size of the lump, it could be nothing more

than a bug bite that had calcified. In addition to the raw food that you are

giving him, I would include some organ meat especially calf liver and heart

meat. Organic is best, but we do what we can. Hope the little guy does well.

The raw feeding group that I have been with has not discussed feeding live

animals, unless I have missed something lately.

Bonnie

January 18, 2006

Chris-

>Well they'd need nitrogen that I guess would have to come from other

>protein but the basic molecular deconstructions of both can be used to

>synthesize amino acids, which then get synthesized into proteins. I'm

>not saying you could make a protein entirely out of carbohydrate or

>fat building blocks, but if you radioisotope-marked all of your carb

>or fat, I'm sure you'd end up finding some of that marker in the

>proteins you synthesize.

OK, that's what I thought, but I think it's inadvertently a little

misleading to simply say they can just be converted to each other,

which is why I asked.

-

January 18, 2006

kili94 wrote:

> Idol wrote:

> > I think it's pretty well established that eating lots of carbs causes

> > triglycerides to shoot up, so as unpleasant as I find it, I have to

> > admit that Cowan's not entirely wrong on that. <g>

>

> , I don't know if you looked at my post of my triglyceride levels

> on different diets. Don't you think it's interesting that my

> triglyceride level was cut in half going from SAD to macrobiotic (a

> high carb diet)? Of course, on NT it was cut in half again.

i just wanted to pop in and say the same thing happened to me on

macrobiotic diet..at least initially..

tryglycerides went down, mood evened out. lost weight. I did eat huge

quantities and all the time. I believe that two things were

responsible: only eating complex carbs..whole grains hardly any bread.

and no refined sweets. After about two years though I started to

gain weight, got even hungrier and mood changes increased. Now on NN

diet tryglcerides are even lower than on macro. Now I also have to

avoid gluten entirely, don't know if that was the case back then.

i think Docs who see the kind of changes and I had on macro are

convinced that simply going to complex carbs will solve everyone's

problems. They don't look at such changes over time.

Ellen

January 18, 2006

Hi

> I don't understand how his knowledge of the research can be " complete "

> if he doesn't mention the peroxidation issue. Isn't it quite

> possible that he has only paid attention to the

> inflammation/anti-inflammation issue and has not looked into

> the peroxidation issue?

A few possibilities.

One is that he discusses it in his book and I just don't recall it, but I

don't think that it correct based on the way he recommends dosing.

Two is that he's read the studies and concluded that they are not important

within the larger context of all the variables involved in how omega-3

supplementation works.

Three is that the peroxidation info is relatively recent and he had not

incorporated it into his earlier writings because it was not available at

the time -- which I doubt, also, as I recently had a conversation with the

group that does his blood testing and they are still recommending very high

doses of vitamin stripped fish oil.

Four is that he's selling a product that is stripped of vitamins and knows

better but is still recommending that people take it anyway so he can make

money off of them. I hope this is not true and it doesn't jive with what I

know about him. I've seen him make choices that are not always the best,

but I can't believe that he would be willing to actually harm people.

Finally -- I just can't believe that he is ignorant of the issue. I've had

enough interaction with him and his staff to know that a huge part of what

he does is read studies. He's an Uber Geek. And a damn nice guy.

Apparently he can recall from memory everything that he's read in over

30,000 studies.

Ron

January 18, 2006

I've got a mutt, Shaggy, that we found about 8 years ago (we guess he

is at least 10 years old). I think he is a poodle/terrier/sheep mix

(you can see his pic at dancorrigan.com). He weighs around 55lbs.

I give Shaggy 2 tablets of " Wobenzym®N – Clear " at bedtime with about

a 1/2 tsp of peanut butter. He swallows it whole. I think the Fidozym

is no different, except it has dosage guidelines appropriate for dogs.

I also have been giving him a digestive enzyme with his food. The

product is called " Unleash " .

http://tinyurl.com/clqd3

I feed him " phd Canine Growth & Maintenance " :

http://tinyurl.com/casaf

As you know, I've been hanging out on the group and

started dabbling in enzymes. I ordered the free CD from Wobenzyme and

liked what I heard, so I thought I would try it out on my dog. It

seems to work great. I had used aspirin occasionally, but didn't want

to give him that everyday. I didn't want to resort to heavy duty

drugs, because I figured they would toast his liver. If I exactly how

old he was, and that he was nearing the end of his lifespan, I would

consider using drugs... whatever works.

Dan

--- In , " Suze Fisher "

> I'd love to know how much your dog weighs and what dose you are

giving? And

> how are you giving it? Wrapped in a bit of food? Or can you make him

swallow

> it whole? Or does he chew it? Mine chews it which I'm sure reduces it's

> efficacy since it's enteric coated. Also, which product are you

giving? I'm

> giving Wobenzym N, but I see they have a product specifically for

animals -

> Fidozym, I think.

>

> And what made you decide to give your dog Wobenzym?

January 18, 2006

I'm curious why you aren't just feeding him raw food a la " BARF "

(Bones And Raw Food)? The online group is a little scary (when I

joined they were talking about feeding their dogs live baby bunnies -

I quit the group), but the rationale seems good. We got a starved

puppy from someone responsible enough to realize she wasn't taking

good care of him and have been feeding him mostly raw meat and sour

raw milk (from sippy cups the kids don't finish) and he's thriving.

Our old cocker is starting to get the gleam in her eye and spring back

in her step as well. I'm surprised as I've only been doing it

intermittently and only for about a month. I still have to half-cook

the meat for the cocker, as she thinks raw food is gross.

I assumed everyone here would be familiar with the Price-Pottenger

Foundation, where it's co-founder? Francis Pottenger wrote the famous

book " Pottenger's Cats " about carnivore's need for the enzymes from

raw meats.

By the way, I haven't had him to the vet since I noticed this, but I

found a small hard lump in the pup's tummy and am worried it's a

tumor. I'm giving him artemisinin, the newest fantastic herbal cancer

cure. Keep your fingers crossed for him that either I'm wrong or it

works! The kids are awfully attached to the little guy already & it

will break their hearts if he dies.

I heard they cut the tumors off of chickens and use them in dog food.

Seems to me if the chicken is malnourished enough to become cancerous,

it's flesh is not very nourishing to provide health to our pets.

>

> I've got a mutt, Shaggy, that we found about 8 years ago (we guess he

> is at least 10 years old). I think he is a poodle/terrier/sheep mix

> (you can see his pic at dancorrigan.com). He weighs around 55lbs.

>

> I give Shaggy 2 tablets of " Wobenzym®N – Clear " at bedtime with about

> a 1/2 tsp of peanut butter. He swallows it whole. I think the Fidozym

> is no different, except it has dosage guidelines appropriate for

dogs.

>

> I also have been giving him a digestive enzyme with his food. The

> product is called " Unleash " .

January 18, 2006

-

>, I don't know if you looked at my post of my triglyceride levels

>on different diets.

In general I read every post that comes down the pike, and yes, I did.

> Don't you think it's interesting that my

>triglyceride level was cut in half going from SAD to macrobiotic (a

>high carb diet)? Of course, on NT it was cut in half again.

My fault for being lazy in writing that post. It's principally

refined (or really, rapidly available) carbs which cause

triglycerides to shoot up. I think some people eating a macrobiotic

diet will find that they have high triglycerides, and the longer

someone sticks to such a diet the more likely I expect it is that

triglyceride levels will rise, but your experience isn't surprising.

>Also, when I went on macro, I found myself feeling very steady

>throughout the day w/out the sugar highs and lows from SAD.

Heaps o' fiber will stabilize some people's blood sugar, at least

until they develop digestive problems.

>Macro, though, is not

>low-fat, though, it's just high in olive & sesame oils. (again, not

>advocating it! just finding it interesting how diet affects things.)

Isn't it often practiced as low-fat, though? I don't really

remember, not having looked at it for years.

-

January 18, 2006

> >Macro, though, is not

> >low-fat, though, it's just high in olive & sesame oils. (again, not

> >advocating it! just finding it interesting how diet affects things.)

>

> Isn't it often practiced as low-fat, though? I don't really

> remember, not having looked at it for years.

,

I wasn't out and about enough in the macro community to know how others

practice it. A macrobiotic chef I know (who's thoroughly committed to

it) was adamant that it was not a low fat diet. No steaming vegetables

for her! They were always sauteed in olive or sesame oil. Except

greens which were quickly boiled. Her vegetables were the most

delicious I'd ever eaten and made me a big fan of veggies. I always

saute mine now, except using ghee or olive oil.

She'd also talk about adjusting the shape of the vegetable (when you

chop it) to balance/fit the meal. So, sometimes carrots would be

sliced on the diagonal, sometimes round, sometimes matchstick and

sometimes finely diced. And it did make a difference -- at the least

it was more fun! She said it affected the energy/chi. I have no

idea. But her veggies were truly magnificent, never had any like hers

anywhere else.

She knows I'm NT now and we pretty much limit our conversation to

topics we agree on -- local, organic, soil fertility. A friend gave

gave me her cooking services as a gift (after i'd switched to NT) and

she was willing to cook chicken for me (but couldn't bring herself to

do red meat). She *raved* about the quality of the chickens I had.

Said she hadn't seen a chicken like that since she was a child in her

grandmother's kitchen in France. And she'd always comment on how good

it smelled as it cooked. She had another client who'd buy Safeway

chickens and she finally told the client she was no longer willing to

cook a Safeway chicken because she was disgusted by it!

I'm hoping eventually she'll see the light, cause I'd love to taste NT

food prepared by her hands.

January 18, 2006

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

>

> By the way, I haven't had him to the vet since I noticed

> this, but I found a small hard lump in the pup's tummy and am

> worried it's a tumor. I'm giving him artemisinin, the newest

> fantastic herbal cancer cure.

I'd take him to a vet to have it looked at, if you can afford it, but it

could just be a lipoma.

January 18, 2006

>>Oh Dan, this is so great! Thanks for sharing that. I'm about to run out of

>>Wobenzym and I just haven't figured out whether I want to continue it with

>>my 15 yr. old min pin, or try a different systemic enzyme with

>fewer crappy

>>fillers. I just haven't found one yet. (She's got disc issues.)

>

>What kind of disc issues?

>

>The more I look into it, the more impressed I am with cetyl

>myristoleate, and it's certainly had a near-magical effect on me, so

>you might want to try that.

Multiple ruptured discs in her back and neck. I already ordered the NOW

cetyl myristoleate yesterday based on your experience with it. I recommended

it to my dad too, who has arthritis and bad hips and is on low doses of

pred, but not just added a kitchen sink arthritis supp that doesn't include

cetyl myristoleate.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

January 18, 2006

>I'm curious why you aren't just feeding him raw food a la " BARF "

>(Bones And Raw Food)? The online group is a little scary (when I

>joined they were talking about feeding their dogs live baby bunnies -

>I quit the group), but the rationale seems good.

Try wellpet instead - it's a holistic pet health list where many members

feed raw, but rarely do we talk about feeding bunnies. It's a group,

BTW.

We got a starved

>puppy from someone responsible enough to realize she wasn't taking

>good care of him and have been feeding him mostly raw meat and sour

>raw milk (from sippy cups the kids don't finish) and he's thriving.

>Our old cocker is starting to get the gleam in her eye and spring back

>in her step as well. I'm surprised as I've only been doing it

>intermittently and only for about a month. I still have to half-cook

>the meat for the cocker, as she thinks raw food is gross.

Try organ meats too, which are probably more nutritious than the muscle

meat. Or you could get a raw ground mix like Bravo or mOrigins or something

else. Looks like hamburger so you won't be grossed out.

>By the way, I haven't had him to the vet since I noticed this, but I

>found a small hard lump in the pup's tummy and am worried it's a

>tumor. I'm giving him artemisinin, the newest fantastic herbal cancer

>cure. Keep your fingers crossed for him that either I'm wrong or it

>works! The kids are awfully attached to the little guy already & it

>will break their hearts if he dies.

The lump could be anything, and if it IS a cancerous lump it might not be

the kind the responds well to the particular herb you are giving him (which

I thought was an anti-parasite herb??).

Is there any reason that you don't take him to the vet for a proper

diagnoses before treating him based on an assumption of what the lump is?

Treatment is so much more effective if we are treating the correct disease.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.tldp.com/issue/168/168cetyl.html>

----------------------------

January 18, 2006

Suze-

>I already ordered the NOW

>cetyl myristoleate yesterday based on your experience with it. I recommended

>it to my dad too, who has arthritis and bad hips and is on low doses of

>pred, but not just added a kitchen sink arthritis supp that doesn't include

>cetyl myristoleate.

If there's any way to get him off the prednisone,

do. Is it just for arthritis? A high attack

dose of cetyl myristoleate followed by a lower

maintenance dose might do the trick.

Here's a Townsend Letter article on

it.

It's labeled sponsored, and while I don't know

what their policy is WRT paid articles, I guess

it's something to be aware of, but it's a

convenient enough collection of many of the

claims made for the substance. At any rate, a couple excerpts:

>Chemistry

>

> Cetyl myristoleate, an oil, is the

> hexadecyl ester of the unsaturated fatty acid

> cis-9-tetradecenoic acid. The common name for

> the acid is myristoleic acid. Myristoleic acid

> is found commonly in fish oils, whale oils,

> dairy butter, and kombo butter. The chemical

> formula for cetyl myristoleate is

> (Z)-ROCO(CH2)7CH=CH(CH2)3CH3. Cetyl

> myristoleate was unrecorded in chemical

> literature until Diehl's discovery was

> reported. The current Merck Index of Chemicals

> does not list cetyl myristoleate. A search of

> Chemical Abstracts lists Diehl's method of

> extracting cetyl myristoleate from mice but

> contains no reference to cetyl myristoleate prior to his 1977 patent.

>

>Experimentation

>

> To test his theory that mice are immune to

> arthritis because of cetyl myristoleate, Diehl

> began to experiment on laboratory rats. This

> research was reported in an article written in

> conjunction with one of his colleagues at NIH

> in the Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences.6 In

> summary, this paper reports that ten normal

> mice were injected in the tail with Freund's

> Adjuvant (heat-killed desiccated Mycobacterium

> butyricum) to which rats and certain other

> rodents are susceptible. In a period of 10-20

> days, no noticeable swelling developed in the

> legs or paws. Mice in a second group were

> injected in the left hind paw. Again, after

> 10-20 days, no swelling was detected as

> determined by comparison of the measurements of paws at the time of injection.

>

> Then, a group of rats was injected with

> cetyl myristoleate, and 48 hours later, they

> were given the arthritis-inducing Freund's

> adjuvant. A control group of rats was given

> Freund's adjuvant only. Both groups of rats

> were observed for a total of 58 days with

> respect to weight change, hind and front leg

> swelling, and general well-being. All rats

> receiving only Freund's adjuvant developed

> severe swelling of the front and hind legs,

> lagged in weight gain, and were lethargic and

> morbid. Those receiving cetyl myristoleate

> before receiving Freund's adjuvant grew an

> average of 5.7 times as much as the control

> group and had little if any evidence of

> swelling or other symptoms of polyarthritis.

>

> The authors concluded that it was apparent

> that cetyl myristoleate gave virtually complete

> protection against adjuvant-induced arthritis

> in rats. Furthermore, a 1:1 mixture of cetyl

> myristoleate and a homologue, cetyl oleate,

> gave results not significantly different from

> administering cetyl myristoleate alone.

>Clinical Observations and Usage

>

> In common with many other natural

> substances and drugs, the exact mechanism of

> cetyl myristoleate's physiologic activity is

> unclear. As a fatty acid ester, it appears to

> have the same characteristics as the essential

> fatty acids, linoleic and alpha linolenic

> acids, except stronger and longer lasting.

> These fatty acids are referred to as " essential

> fatty acids " because the human body cannot make

> them and we must ingest them in our diets.

> These EFA's truly are essential to normal cell

> structure and body function and function as

> components of nerve cells, cell membranes, and

> hormone-like substances known as

> prostaglandins. Many of the beneficial effects

> of a diet rich in plant foods is a result of

> the low levels of saturated fat and the

> relatively higher levels of EFA's. While a diet

> high in saturated fat has been linked to many

> chronic diseases, a diet low in saturated fat

> but high in EFA's prevents these very same

> diseases.7 The use of EFA's over an extended

> period of time has been shown to decrease the

> pain, inflammation, and limitation of motion of arthritis.8

>

> The difference between the activity of

> EFA's and cetyl myristoleate is that the

> quantity required and the period of time over

> which EFA's are taken are markedly longer.

> Cetyl myristoleate is taken in a one month

> course of about 13 grams, while EFA's must be

> taken over extended periods, sometimes many

> years, and intake varies widely from hundreds

> to thousands of grams. Cetyl myristoleate seems

> to have properties in common with EFA's, but it acts faster and lasts longer.

>

> Because EFA's are necessary for normal

> functioning of all tissue, it is not surprising

> that the list of symptoms of EFA deficiency is

> a long one. In chronic inflammatory processes,

> the supply of EFA's is depleted. Cetyl

> myristoleate appears to have the ability to

> correct the imbalance created by chronic

> inflammation. Like EFA's, maybe cetyl

> myristoleate turns off the fires of chronic

> inflammation by serving as a mediator of

> prostaglandin formation and metabolism.

>

> Venous blood from the gastrointestinal

> tract is carried to the liver via the portal

> vein. With the exception of intestinal

> chylomicrons that enter the lymphatics, all

> absorbed products pass initially through the

> liver, and in most instances are extracted or

> modified before passage into systemic

> circulation.9 Since all fatty acids enter

> systemic circulation through the liver, an oil

> like cetyl myristoleate would begin its

> systemic circulation from the liver also. It is

> speculated that cetyl myristoleate stimulates

> the production of immunoglobulins and series 1

> and 3 prostaglandins, which could be one

> explanation for why cetyl myristoleate has such

> potent effect in auto-immune and inflammatory conditions.

Here's a Diehl

reference.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & list_uids=\

8207671 & dopt=Abstract>

>1: J Pharm Sci. 1994 Mar;83(3):296-9. Related Articles, Links

>

>Cetyl myristoleate isolated from Swiss albino

>mice: an apparent protective agent against adjuvant arthritis in rats.

>

>Diehl HW, May EL.

>

>Department of Pharmacology, Medical College of Virginia, Richmond 23298.

>

>Cetyl myristoleate was isolated from National

>Institutes of Health, general purpose, Swiss

>albino mice that were immune to the

>polyarthritis induced in rats with Freund's

>adjuvant. This substance, or material

>synthesized from cetyl alcohol and myristoleic

>acid, afforded good protection against

>adjuvant-induced arthritic states in rats. In

>limited comparisons, cetyl oleate, also found in

>Swiss albino mice, gave lesser protection,

>whereas cetyl myristate and cetyl elaidate, the

>trans-isomer of cetyl oleate, appeared to be

>virtually ineffective. Dosage of the protective

>compound as well as the site of injection of Freund's adjuvant was important.

>

>PMID: 8207671 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Your dad should be particularly worried if

s is correct about this:

>CMO - When it doesn't work

>

>As Reported by s, M.D. in Second Opinion, May 1996

>

>Referring to a report published in the Journal

>of Pharmaceutical Sciences, author Harry W. Diehl (date unknown):

>

> " The study involved 48 subjects of both sexes

>ranging in age from 29 to 82. The drug (CMO)

>was given orally with capsules being taken

>morning and night. Only two subjects failed to

>show marked improvement or complete relief of

>all symptoms. The two patients who did not

>respond were both found to have severe liver

>disease. It is thought that liver damage from

>prolonged cortisone treatment for arthritis may

>block the healing effect of CMO. Most patients

>had a 70 to 100 percent return of joint mobility

>and a 70 to 100 percent reduction in pain. The

>initial response time is two to seven days and

>maximum response time is from seven to 21 days. "

>

>Clinical experience indicates that CMO fails

>more often when the patient has such severe

>damage to their joints that a replacement procedure is recommended.

This is s's explanation of how it works,

though I don't think anyone really knows at the moment.

>How it works:

>

>Dr. s explains the

>function of CMO™ by saying " It is absorbed from

>the mid-intestine and then migrates to the

>joints where it attaches itself and alters the

>immune response to the pain and swelling... "

>[second Opinion, Vol. V1, No 5 May 1996]. CMO™

>addresses the underlying cause of arthritis by

>re-programming malfunctioning Memory T Cells in

>your immune system. Once the ongoing damage is

>arrested the body can begin the normal healing

>process which will continue for several months after the use of CMO™.

That's from a longer blurb here. <http://www.health-science.com/cmo.html>

Here's a less dramatically positive followup

study.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=12526860 & query_hl=2 & itool=pubmed_docsum>

>1: Pharmacol Res. 2003 Jan;47(1):43-7. Related Articles, Links

>

>Synthesis of cetyl myristoleate and evaluation

>of its therapeutic efficacy in a murine model of collagen-induced arthritis.

>

>Hunter KW Jr, Gault RA, Stehouwer JS, Tam-Chang SW.

>

>Department of Microbiology, University of Nevada

>School of Medicine, Reno, NV 89557, USA. khunter@...

>

>Cetyl myristoleate (CM) was reported by Diehl

>and May [J Pharm Sci 83 (1994) 296] to block

>inflammation and prevent adjuvant-induced

>arthritis in rats. To verify this earlier work,

>we have synthesized pure CM and tested its

>anti-arthritic properties in a collagen-induced

>arthritis model in DBA/1LacJ mice. Multiple

>intraperitoneal injections of CM in 450 and 900

>mg kg(-1) doses resulted in a significantly

>lower incidence of disease and caused a modest

>but significant diminution in clinical signs in

>those mice that developed arthritis. CM

>administered in daily oral doses of 20 mg kg(-1)

>also reduced the incidence of arthritis and

>caused a small reduction in the clinical signs

>in mice that developed arthritis. Although the

>protective effect of CM in collagen-induced

>arthritis observed in the present study was less

>dramatic than that reported earlier, our results

>confirm the anti-arthritic properties of pure CM.

>

>PMID: 12526860 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And

another.

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstr\

act & list_uids=12180734 & query_hl=2 & itool=pubmed_docsum>

Unfortunately, there's very little literature on

cetyl myristoleate, but as it's just an

esterified form of myristoleic acid, a fatty acid

found in a wide variety of natural foods, I think

there's very little reason to worry about any

conceivable safety hazards and every reason to

give it a shot. Certainly my experience with it has been pretty remarkable.

-

January 18, 2006

Thanks for your reply. The lump is not part of the skin, is about

the size of a marble (he's the size of a chihuahua), and feels

really hard. It doesn't seem to bother him at all. Artemisinin is

harmless, so there's no risk to him.

>

> The small hard lump that you spoke of could be many things, I

wouldn't give

> him something like that cancer cure unless I knew what it was.

Homeopathy is

> your best bet, but depending on the size of the lump, it could be

nothing more

> than a bug bite that had calcified. In addition to the raw food

that you are

> giving him, I would include some organ meat especially calf liver

and heart

> meat. Organic is best, but we do what we can. Hope the little

guy does well.

> The raw feeding group that I have been with has not discussed

feeding live

> animals, unless I have missed something lately.

>

> Bonnie

>

January 18, 2006

We're going on Friday, but I don't trust the vet, she always wants to

call in specialists at $200 a pop and usually it's nothing to worry

about.

--- In , " Berg " <bberg@c...>

wrote:

>

> > [mailto: ] On Behalf Of haecklers

> >

> > By the way, I haven't had him to the vet since I noticed

> > this, but I found a small hard lump in the pup's tummy and am

> > worried it's a tumor. I'm giving him artemisinin, the newest

> > fantastic herbal cancer cure.

>

> I'd take him to a vet to have it looked at, if you can afford it,

but it

> could just be a lipoma.

>

January 23, 2006

>Suze,

>

>> It is my understanding that there are multiple causes of inflammation

>> including free radical damage and allergies, to name a few that

>I'm familiar

>> with. (What are others?). Therefore I'm skeptical of the claims

>for one of

>> the antioxidant enzyme products I'm using on my dogs, which is that it

>> reduces inflammation by reducing triglycerides. The company

>claims that the

>> product reduces the triglycerides to glyco-proteins. They claim that

>> inflammation originates in blood fats, and by reducing the blood fats to

>> glycoproteins, inflammation is thus reduced. Um, how can a fat

>molecule be

>> reduced to a carb/protein molecule? And they refer to a

>glycoprotein as a

>> monosaccharide. Eeks. http://www.enzymecompany.com/i-plex.htm

>

>Fats, proteins and carbs can all be converted to one another but the

>enzymatic reactions are multi-step and rather complex and it sounds

>like they are just trying to make a bunch of mumbo jumbo sound like

>science to a lay reader.

You are such a dear, as usual. Thanks for your detailed reply to my post.

Even when I don't reply to your posts, know that I *greatly* appreciate your

opinions and comments - every one of 'em! :-)

This is very interesting about fats, carbs and proteins being converted to

one another. I had no idea!

>I looked at their first " study " under the research section. Their

>introduction is highly political and makes them sound like

>conspiracist kooks, whether they are right or not, and their study

>isn't blinded in any way making it totally worthless.

Huh? I just checked out that first " study " -

http://www.enzymecompany.com/The_Enzyme_Compant_Research_Department.pdf and

saw nary a political statement. Nothing, nada. Just the science behind the

experiment and the experiment itself. I also checked out the second study

thinking maybe the first one wasn't a " study " (the second one ws nutritional

support of cardiac patients) and again found nothing political. Were you

looking at a different link?

With the kind

>of sesationalist air that they effect in the introduction, I have zero

>confidence that they could maintain any remote type of objectivity

>when dealing with the patients, and wouldn't be surprised if they

>purposefully whipped up euphoric feelings in the patients a la

>televangelist hysteria when conducting this " study. "

Again, I have no idea what you were looking at. Do you recall the link?

Every one of the studies at the link I provided

http://www.enzymecompany.com/ seem to only contain info about the studies

themselves.

>

>I think it's funny that, on the one hand, they rant about real

>scientsts getting shut out of the scientific establishment, while on

>the other, they come up with ridiculous

>worst-piece-of-crap-i've-ever-seen study designs that are neither

>placebo-controlled nor blinded, do not discuss the weaknesses of their

>study like real scientists do with *good* studies, spend half the text

>on a political rant and one tenth what they should on their materials

>and methods, and so on, and actually have the nerve to suggest that

>they are getting " shut out " of the mainstream for any other reason

>than that they are fakes. Maybe if they tried to at least put up a

>front of objectivity and design a study that would yield a mustard

>seed of worthwhile information, more mainstream scientists would pay

>attention to them.

Again, I would need to see what link you are referring to. One question

though, are you saying that you think the only studies of any value are

placebo-controlled and blinded?

>

>> Also, is there any real danger of high serum triglycerides? Or is that

>> notion as nonsensical as the lipid hypothesis? I know I should know this,

>> but I forgot!

>

>You mean know the answer, or know Ravnskov's position?

Either one!

The latter is

>that there is no evidence blood triglycerides are harmful. Tom

>Cowan's position (hahaha) is that they are an index of excessive carb

>consumption to exercise ratio but not harmful in and of themselves. I

>personally haven't seen anything definitive, but I'm not convinced we

>can rule out any harmful influence of high triglycerides. I'm not

>sure. I think Ravnkskov, though he's great, tends to rule things out

>too quickly.

>

>But I don't think anyone " knows " the answer, so I wouldn't feel too

>bad about wondering. :-)

Thank you for your insights. IIRC, vets don't consider elevated

triglycerides a problem in dogs because, I think there is no evidence that

they are harmful to this species, as they are in humans, so one vet told me

if my memory isn't completely failing me. Well, hmmmm. Yeh, a useless tidbit

of info, but your comments reminded me of it.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

January 23, 2006

THanks . Unfortunately he needs to have both hips replaced so CMO may

not be the right thing for him now :-(

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics