Re: Brad

[Guest guest]

,

No arguments from me on this post.

Personally, I only want to define " too far " for me and my children.

Also, just for me, I'll get the latest " no-more glasses " procedure when

my optometrist or ophthalmologist gets it (they both wear glasses).

As for CI's while I know a few audiology students with them, and I know

several late deafened and pre-lingually Deaf physicians, I don't know of

any ENT's or Otologists who have lost hearing and then had a CI. I will

be seeing two deaf physicians (one late deafened, one congenital) in a

few weeks, so I'll ask them how they see the CI in terms of " physician

heal thyself. "

My son's optometrist is prelingugally deaf and wears hearing aids,

speaks, lip-reads and signs. I'll also ask him the same question the

next time I see him. He works with a lot of folks with Usher's

Syndrome, but I've never heard his opinions about surgical interventions

for vision or hearing loss.

As far as my professional recommendations go, and offering choices,

again, that's why I'm here. I'm trying to learn about as many sides of

the CI situation as possible. In a few months I'll be taking a CI class

for my AuD. That will give me one perspective. I personally know a

handful of CI recipients with varying degrees of success. As I get some

more " academic " information under my belt, I'll be spending some time

with a few audiologists locally who work with CI's. I will continue to

engage in dialogues with CI manufacturers and hope to be able to

continue to learn from this and other CI lists. By taking this

multi-prong approach, it is my hope that I will have more than one

answer for people who may present with hearing such that a CI is one of

many possible solutions.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Re: Brad

Brad,

Do you view all " medical procedures " such as the CI or prosthetic

limbs as " Fix Its " ? Isnt it part of our nature to seek the " best "

(best meaning best options for oneself) that can be used to mitigate

whatever it is?

You say that " many audiologists

have no awareness " . You also say that you think you can adapt as a deaf

person if that should fall upon you. Find out. Plug your ears up for a

week, two weeks, 24/7. You probably already know ASL. But do not

prepare for this ahead of time. Do it then seek out the reasonable

accomodations. TTY. Visual signalers. Closed captioning.

Go shopping at stores you have not been to. Plan trips by air. Go to a

party of people you do not know.

We all know what we would do if..... But when reality does strike,

what happens. We go into panic mode. Why? Because we also think, " It

will not happen to me " .

People who want to go to work for Guide Dogs of the Blind and train

guide dogs MUST walk in our shoes for 10 days. I imagine many wash out.

They come to class (the real class, with blind students who are training

with their guide dogs) and put on a blindfold which stays on 24/7 for 10

full days. After 10 days, they probably only want to go home and

recover for a week. They do learn empathy for the blind.

The only difference is that they KNOW its only temperorary.

We've all heard it on the news. City Hall goes blind deaf and

confined to wheelchairs for a day. Bleah. Nonsense. They think its

fun, its only for a day, they get to drive home and forget what they

did.

Many many people with disabilities, happy lives or not, FACE

barriers 24/7. You have to LIVE that to appreciate the reality. Some

obstacles are so damn inhumane as to defy xommon sense. Like ,

when her baby was born, was visited by social workers. A blind couple,

when their baby was born, had that baby snatched as soon as it was born

because social workers could not fathom the fact that these were human

beings who just had a baby. No, they were blind, how in tarnation can

blind people raise a family. Oh no these are not isolated cases, not by

any stretch of the imagination.

How far should one go in mitigating their situation? Should " Fix

It " always be the last resort? That is not practical. A missing limb

is a missing limb. Remember back on the 80s when a certain eye

corrective procedure became popular and people threw away eyeglasses?

How about a procedura done on women's feet to allow them to wear high

heels? Now that is going too far isnt it. So, where to draw the line?

Would you like to define the line? You wont be popular, I promise you.

We need to have the options available, and we need to exercise our

freedom of choice....based on what we learn of the options. Should we

only allow procedures that have a HIGH probability of success? If that

is the case, people like Alice would never be able to exercise their

freedom of choice. Maybe the standards do need work. But as long as we

have people in the equation, we are going to see interpretations that

others may disagree with. And sadly, we will always see those who take

advantage of us.

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

You can say any foolish thing to a dog, and the dog will give you a look

that says, 'Wow, you're right! I never would've thought of that!'

-- Dave Barry

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Tracie,

I am genuinely happy for you and your son. It is clear that you made

the right choice for your family. You don't owe me or anyone else any

explanations. Sounds like he's doing great!

I can understand a little of what you're saying. Before we adopted our

son (age 6) he was not really exposed to ASL in any consistent manner.

While he was able to hear with hearing aids, his speech discrimination

was always very poor.

When we first met him, we started signing ASL to him and it was like a

light bulb turned on and a weight was lifted off his shoulders. Soon

after that, he came to live with us and we introduced him to native ASL

signers, he really came into his own and his language and vocabulary

bloomed.

Unfortunately, lots of not-so-pleasant events in his life before we

adopted him are now complicating his life beyond belief, but all in all,

he's a kid who knows that his parents did their best for him.

Your son will know the same thing.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Re: Brad

Brad,

I wasn't gonna get into this debate/conversation due to the fact that I

really am on the outside looking in when it comes to the deaf/HOH. You

see it is my son who has the hearing loss not I. For 18 months before he

got his implant I knew what it was like to deal with and try to

understand a child that couldn't talk/sign and who really couldn't tell

you exactly what he wanted. My son has had the CI surgery and that was

the hardest decision I have had to make for him. But now that I see he

is enjoying the sounds of the hearing world and learning the signs at

the same time I am glad I made this decision for him. I don't regret

having done the surgery. What I can say though is I regret the time he

spent wearing HA's that never gave him any benefit. For 18 months he was

the crabbiest baby and mostly misunderstood for he could not tell what

he really wanted. I ask many questions of these list groups due to the

fact that I am currently trying to get my son a second implant. In his

case (hearing loss secondary to meningitis) he may not be able to get

one later in life if we wait. I just want to give my son the maximum

hearing possibilities there is at this time. Because time is something

we may not have later......... I just hope you see where and why I made

this decision. And it was his ENT that mentioned him possibly being a

candidate for the CI when he was 2 months of age but because we had to

try the HA's first........we did. His Audie decided at 11 months that he

would benefit more from the CI than from any HA's available now. I made

the best decision I thought possible for my son. Just thought you would

like to know what it was like from my side of the fence so to speak. Oh

and one more thing my son now can understand spoken speech and has a

small vocabulary...

Tracie

Austen's Mom

implanted 11/03

activated 12/03

[Guest guest]

,

I see it as a 50-50 split of responsibility. The individual contributes

their education, best efforts, work ethic, etc. Society contributes a

reasonably accessible " universal design " and minimal bigotry.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Re: Brad

This is one paragraph to which I would like to reply. If there was a

way that I could " fix " whatever was not working on my body, then surely

I would rather do that then to have to demand anything from society.

Society owes me nothing. I, however, have the obligation to be as

productive a member of society as I can.

In a message dated 4/26/2004 6:02:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bingrao@... writes:

Rather than follow the advice of the medical " fix it (you) " model, they

live their lives not in denial, but with full acceptance and awareness

of their disabilities and what they need to do (and what to demand from

society) so that despite the ignorance and prejudice of other, they live

full and successful and happy lives.

[Guest guest]

OK gang..

Before we get too rough on Brad here, please remember that he did

say he's NOT against cochlear implants..rather the opposite, and

none of us can really know how we will feel being deaf until we get

there.. Just as being implanted is a very individual choice.. please

remember that not being implanted is just as individual a choice and

if a person feels comfortable being deaf then so be it..It is their

choice..

I know that I'm not comfortable in the deaf world and this is

probably due to the fact that I have had normal hearing in the past,

I don't know asl and was always a very poor lip reader.. add to that

my family had to write notes to my mother for 20 years until she was

implanted and it makes for tough time coping in the hearing world..

Brad knows of many deaf who are happy and comfortable with with

being so, but by the same token, I can probably match or exceed the

number of people I know who are deaf or hearing impaired and NOT

comfortable or happy..Success in the deaf and hearing world is

probably as individual as each persons experience with cochlear

implants is.

Granted, Brad can't possibly know what any of us feels like being

deaf any more than we could know how he'd feel if he lost his

hearing (definitely not anything I'd want to happen though)and I

doubt Brad himself can say just how he'd feel if anything were to

happen to his hearing until it actually happened.

Just my two cents worth here.. but let's remember.. we are a support

forum, to help people understand, but not to make the choice for

them.

Hugs,

Silly MI

[Guest guest]

,

Very good points and information.

I don't consider hearing aids to be a fix, quick, slow or otherwise. I

advocate first and foremost providing the most complete and unfettered

access to LANGUAGE. For many kids (hearing, HoH and d/Deaf) this comes

in the form of speech, but for many other (in those same groups) it is

one or more visual forms.

If the child is aidable (most are) AND the family has identified goals

that include audition and spoken language development, then I support

them and provide the best hearing aid/earmold system I can to attain

those goals. If those goals cannot be attained with hearing aids and

Assistive Listening Systems, then I suggest that they investigate CI's.

I agree that as an outsider, I won't hear all the stories that you will.

That is why I'm asking all these questions. Not to say that my way is

better (I really don't own a way), but because I am trying to understand

issues that most hearing people don't even know about, let alone care

enough to ask about and listen to the answers.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Re: Brad

Brad

because you know deaf people and because you know asl you feel that

you

would be ok if you couldn't hear you say that many deaf people

are

aware and accept their limitations

and i agree i know thousands of deaf people who live full rich

lives

i too found creative ways to deal with my deafens s my limitations

i have never felt i have a handicapp

being deaf way just another part of me like my blue eyes but

being

deaf, living deaf

sharing with other deaf has afforded me a far deeper and clearer

understanding of just how deaf people really feel i have talked

to so many deaf

people who share their childhood memories of feeling isolated, being

made fun of,

feeling left out i have heard the endless stories of kids trying

to

learn to talk and how awful they felt .... struggling so hard to make

sounds that

others won't understand anyway although most deaf kids don't say

how

much they are aware of what they can't do they do remember these

feelings years later

wanting to be able to use the phone like their brother or being

able to

talk to other kids in the park or wanting to hear birds or a cat

purr

these are stories from real honest to god well aware and accepting deaf

people you will probably never hear these stories you will only

see the

deaf pride no deaf person opens their soul to someone who is so

different someone who hears

you talk about avoiding these quick fixes yet you advocate using hearing

aids

aren't hearing aids a quick fix too as a mom of three

kids

with disabilities i would go to the end of the earth to help my child be

as much

a part of everything in this world my kids have needed

surgery to

correct deformed bones so they might walk one day or eye

surgery so

they might see i want for my children to know no limits

if my

child was struggling to understand what he hears why would i not want to

help

him? why would i not want to give him a way in which hearing would

come

easy and natural not by lessons and guessing why would i want

to limit

his world why would i want my son to miss out on so many of life's

pleasures and riches i couldn't or wouldn't because i have

lived this and

know really know unlike others

susan

[Guest guest]

Sure thing Dixie.

Thanks to all who have contributed to my emerging understanding.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Brad

Brad,

First off....hugs to ya...so don't get offended ok?

Could we drop all this study of yours on CI and so forth and so on?

I'm about ready to jump off the nearest bridge with it all. Where is

that dead horse? Is it still around? Are there any parts left to beat

to death? Did someone say they thought they saw a hoof day before

yesterday?

No offense...we are not a test study group here as far as I know.

We're just a group of folks who want a CI, want to be able to hear, and

some are at this forum to support other family members and friends who

have a CI and want to learn personally someone's experience concerning

their journey.

Can we leave that dead horse alone now?

Dixie

[Guest guest]

Dixie,

I didnt see a hoof today but its so windy that I am almost certain

I saw a mane, or maybe it was the tail, flying by. Po' hoss. Hehehe.

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation.

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Dixie,

<<Why do the Deaf voice an opinion in the first place about whether

someone gets a CI or not? >>

Why does a CI recipient have any more opinion about the same thing? I

hear " You'll love it, Go for it! " " Don't Wait " all the time on this

very list. I also hear the balanced flip side.

We all need to hear ALL opinions so that each individual can make their

own choice, not the choice of their friend, family, doctor, audiologist

or other CI HEAR list members.

I agree that SOME Deaf people are inappropriately anti-CI. This has

been exaggerated in the past and while it still exists, it's getting

better. I think you'll find that the current NAD position statement on

CI's is very fair and balanced. Many Schools for the Deaf that have

traditionally been ASL-only have opened their doors and hearts to kids

with CI's who didn't make it in the mainstream. My son's own school

which is a national model of Bilingual Bicultural education has hired a

CI coordinator and invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and years

of time developing effective ways to educate these kids as well as

making the social and emotional environment accepting for them and their

families.

My real point was that while many Deaf people are against the CI for

themselves, I rarely hear about anyone planning an Oprah show to

encourage deaf people to learn ASL or to NOT get an implant.

As the father of a Deaf child I get asked, told, harassed and accused of

child abuse at least once a month for not implanting him. The medical

and audiologic community has determined that if one has an audiogram of

a certain shape, they NEED a CI. The respect of individual choice I see

on this list is not there in the minds of many, many people in the

hearing community. Grahaem (CI inventor) was recently quoted in

an article as saying something to the effect of not having any idea why

anyone would live the isolated world of being deaf when they can just

get a CI.

Where is HIS respect for individual choice? There's a " broken " ear, I

can fix it.

Last year, this came to a head when a court in MI almost ordered two

kids to have CI's against their parents choice. The parent is deaf and

after a CI eval (during which the CI center did not provide an

interpreter) the audiologist made a Child Protective Services report

against the mother for not following through with the surgery. The kids

were placed in foster care and were it not for the testimony of a

linguist and deaf educator from Boston University, the court would have

ruled to implant the kids against her wishes. The audiologists told the

court that without the CI, the children would not be able to learn

language and their brains would not develop. No one bothered to realize

the kids already had language but more importantly that it is the

parent's right to choose, not the audiologists.

My point was to simply remind everyone that the prejudice and

insensitivity goes BOTH ways, and that the only way we can move beyond

it is for BOTH groups to feel free to express their feelings without

anyone deciding who should or should not has the right to have or

express their own INDIVIDUAL opinion.

I spent the Memorial Day weekend playing in 3 parades with a local

American Legion Band. Those men and women died for all of to have the

right to express our feelings and have discussions like this. When we

start making rules about who can and cannot say what about subjects, we

dishonor them and degrade our society.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Brad

Brad,

This isn't hard to answer at all. Why do the Deaf voice an opinion in

the first place about whether someone gets a CI or not? I have never

seen it as anyone's business to comment on a surgery to help restore a

sense, etc. Do we voice an opinion on someone who has eye surgery to

help restore their vision? How about surgery of the nose to help people

to once again restore their ability to smell or taste?

Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, but shouldn't everyone be happy

for the person who can and is able to hear again through cochlear

implant surgery...especially if that is what the person wants and hopes

for?

As I mentioned earlier, CI is not for everyone. Again, that is their

choice unless it's medically or financially unavailable to them or they

just choose to be Deaf. But why throw rocks at those who wish

to hear?

You Wrote:But I also see a lot

of very subtle, and probably unintentional criticism of those who choose

not to hear in those celebrations.

Why can't everyone just feel free to express their own opinion and be

secure enough in them that a differing opinion is seen as just that.

Brad, it doesn't get to be a differing opinion. I think you know and

see that as well as everyone else. It ends up being a judgement.

Read what Sharon wrote on a fellow employee and what wrote

regarding Chauncey's friends. This is what I can't understand, someone

gains hearing and the Deaf community is up in arms, judging, snubbing,

voicing an opinion, etc. Hearing community is not voicing an opinion on

Deaf culture. It's the other eay around.

Dixie

[Guest guest]

Brad,

I think you are looking at this from the viewpoint of a person who does not have

a CI and is not in favor of one. When asked for opinions from members of this

list, you are going to see that the messages will most likely project

encouragement and support for the CI but I've seen some very honest posts here

from individuals who have had the CI and have shared that it's " not perfect " or

otherwise less than raving opinions. The variety is good. You are indicating

otherwise and actually suggesting that listmembers not share how they feel so

you are trying to squelch the very right for all to express our feelings and

have discussions like this.

Regarding planning an Oprah show to encourage deaf people to learn ASL or to NOT

get an implant, this would not be the right group to go about this task, but

perhaps you would like to see a show like this on Oprah and you have every right

to start a campaign to do such a show. You could present the case in MI which I

think would be of interest and it would also be a good show because I believe in

parental rights and it seems that because of the testimony of a linguist and

deaf educator from Boston University, the court did not rule to implant the kids

against her wishes thus it was the effect of this linguist and deaf educator

that made the impact and not the audiologist and parental rights were honored.

I'm sorry if you have been harassed and accused of child abuse at least once a

month for not implanting your child. I can see that this would make you very

angry as you have very sound reasons for not having him implanted. This type of

treatment has taken place because (in my opinion) we have gone way overboard in

our court system and school system in pointing the finger of blame on parents

for abusing children by simply trying to be good parents. I have seen examples

of this in my own family and have been very angry at some of the undeserved

treatment. Parenting today is a very difficult job.

You quoted from Grahaem (CI inventor) in an article saying something to

the effect of not having any idea why anyone would live the isolated world of

being deaf when they can just get a CI. This is his opinion and like yours,

Dixie's, 's, 's, 's, 's, 's and all the rest of

our members, we respect that opinion.

Alice

[Guest guest]

> My real point was that while many Deaf people are against the CI

for

> themselves, I rarely hear about anyone planning an Oprah show to

> encourage deaf people to learn ASL or to NOT get an implant.

Hi,

I think it's a shame that more people aren't encouraged to learn

ASL. I learned it for myself and it's been a lifesaver more than

once. As well as the CI works for me I still use sign and encourage

others to learn it and use it as well. Implant or not, I'd want a

deaf child to learn how to sign. It's a great tool to have at your

disposal. Unfortunately, educational programs for deaf children seem

to be either 100% oral or 100% ASL even if they claim to be TC.

Many thanks for honoring the memory of our fallen countrymen on

Memorial day! :-)

- Jeff

late deafened; happily cybernetic for 5 months!

[Guest guest]

> Brad said, " What I see with CI's is a nearly evangelical spirit

to

> get as many

> people as possible implanted. This is not coming from this list per

> se, but from the medical and audiologic community. "

>

> Could it be because the CI is indeed a medical miracle that is

> very successful and pretty much available to those who qualify?

Amen Dixie, Alice, Mr and others who responded to this issue. I

don't normally respond to a person making statements as this. It

doesn't offend me, I just figure it is their choice to think that way.

Maybe a few people sound like they are pushing CI's and that is their

choice. Not one Audiologist told me about CI's after testing me in

the profound region of hearing. They just said let me try these, so I

could add to the draw full of ha s I owned already. I don't blame all

audiologists I am sure there are some out there that would have

recommended I look into Ci's. I just happened to not meet any. Making

a judgment of audiologists from my own experience is about the same

as Brad making a judgment or opinion as all of us here would push

CI's on everyone.

Evangelical spirit to get as many people as possible to be implanted?

Say what?

Today I had a meeting with a long time client, she was impressed with

the difference the CI made in one month of a twenty-five year loss.

She even used the words miraculous. She couldn't wait to tell her

father who was deaf. The first thing I said to her was, be gentle,

don't be surprised if he doesn't want to hear about it.

I have seen that same caution from people on CI lists. I think we

have a very good understanding between the hearing and the deaf. If

someone asked my opinion on my CI, and getting a CI, you betcha I

will say go for it if you qualify. Does that make me evangelistic?

I am not offended if you choose to think that way.

L in RI Late deafened

hook up 4-26-04 amazed how much of my old quality of life I got back

in just a month.

[Guest guest]

i thought brad already explained why.... that it was not appropriate for his

son at this time and his son has many other issues to deal with. i think

sometimes we forget that there are other things such as " readiness " and being

" motivated " for a ci...for some people that comes later, rather than

" right now " Even at a ci eval, the ci team can refer people to therapist

to more accurately assess one for ci...there are many things to consdier when

deciding to get a ci. its a big step and life changing as most of you know.

joni

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/4/2004 8:58:03 AM Alaskan Daylight Time, Jonikt4@...

writes:

> i thought brad already explained why.... that it was not appropriate for

> his

> son at this time and his son has many other issues to deal with. i think

> sometimes we forget that there are other things such as " readiness " and

> being

> " motivated " for a ci...for some people that comes later, rather than

> " right now " Even at a ci eval, the ci team can refer people to therapist

> to more accurately assess one for ci...there are many things to consdier

> when

> deciding to get a ci. its a big step and life changing as most of you know.

>

> joni

>

I worked with emotionally unstable children through out my career as an RN

(25 years) and there wasn't one of them I would have considered stable enough

for something like a CI.. they couldn't even take care of or use a pair of

glasses properly and many had no independent living skills even as teenagers.

They

didn't know how to take a bath or look up something in the yellow pages, much

less benefit from a cochlear implant had they been deaf. These children were

already hearing but I can guarantee, they made no productive use of their

hearing.

One thing is for sure, you have to have your feet firmly planted on the

ground and a committed and dedicated eye toward the goal in order to

successfully

be implanted. If those things aren't in place it won't work.

I'm sure that if hearing could *cure* his son from whatever else ails him,

Brad would be the first in line for the CI.

My hat is off to a parent who truly seems to know what is important and puts

his child's mental welfare before societal pressures. Also I'm so glad that

Brad is willing to share that part of his life with this group. To say nothing

of having adopted a child who may never have had a chance to be loved or

cherished without Brad in his life.

Pam

[Guest guest]

,

Again, I haven't read any posts after this, but from your analogy

(CI:chain saw :: HA/ALDS:bread knife), it's clear that you feel your

choice of a CI over a HA is superior (because ask anyone how they'd

rather cut down a tree and only the craziest would select the bread

knife, right?), and I think most anyone can see through your denial

of that.

I think it's absurd that Brad is taking all this flak for a choice

he as a parent has every right to make for his child. And it

certainly isn't as if he's uneducated about the pros and cons of the

available courses; he has more information than most parents

probably do before making the decision to implant their children.

Back off.

> Bread knife. Hearing aids/ALDs.

>

> *---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

> The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

> & Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

> Portland, Oregon

> N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

> rlclark77@c...

> http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Oh, -- PLEASE tell me this ( " The other choice is a lesser

quaility of life. But manageable to some degree. " ) was referring to

the alternatives to the other procedures Brad mentioned, and NOT to

his son's quality of life as a deaf person . . .

(trying HARD to give the benefit of the doubt here)

[Guest guest]

To me there is more than one right answer. As I reflect back on my own life,

the most important thing is for the child and his family to feel he or she

is happy, to be growing in his or her education, emotionally socially, in

all areas of life. There is a deafblind person who received an implant as a

child. He greatly benefited from it and started developing oral language. He

attended the deaf school and decided to not use it, and hesistantly his

mother respected his wishes. He graduated from high school and is attending

college to be an engineer like his hearing-nonsigning uncle who has been a

role model for him.

Re: Brad

> ,

>

> Again, I haven't read any posts after this, but from your analogy

> (CI:chain saw :: HA/ALDS:bread knife), it's clear that you feel your

> choice of a CI over a HA is superior (because ask anyone how they'd

> rather cut down a tree and only the craziest would select the bread

> knife, right?), and I think most anyone can see through your denial

> of that.

>

> I think it's absurd that Brad is taking all this flak for a choice

> he as a parent has every right to make for his child. And it

> certainly isn't as if he's uneducated about the pros and cons of the

> available courses; he has more information than most parents

> probably do before making the decision to implant their children.

>

> Back off.

>

>

>

>

> > Bread knife. Hearing aids/ALDs.

> >

> > *---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

> > The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant.

> > & Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

> > Portland, Oregon

> > N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

> > rlclark77@c...

> > http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

?

Brad is doing fine. Show me where I am on his case over his

decision not to implant his son. None of us are in any position to

challenge him on that one. And Brad certainly doesn't need a

" defender " , he has held his own just dandy. We agree to disagree/

Now if YOU wish to challenge MY opinions, go for it! But please,

dont tell me to back off. Cheers!

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

Wait...I'm trying to imagine you with a personality.

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

,

I can see where you might think that. But no, just not the best

of analogies in this case. Actually, Brad was the one who chose those

procedures so balme him. LOL

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

This is a test. This is a test of the Answering Machine Broadcast

System. This is only a test.

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Hi there!

, I highly agree with you about respecting other's opinions. Somehow,

I am curious why Brad is against CI for his son, questioning WHY, I still do

respect his decision, but still, I would like to know WHY...

I have always believed that any decisions made by men is ultimately for the

goodness of himself or someone, I strongly believe that behind any action is

always a positive intention.

Now, I wonder what Brad knows that we don't know. That makes him decide

NOT to implant his son. Brad, are you by chance having access to what the

future will hold for hair cell regeneration? Or does that mean you somehow

have time table where cures for deafness is possible? Or anything similar?

=) Or you by chance encountered many people who have failures with CI? Would

be glad to know why you decided that way.

Regards/

Jerome

Re: Brad

?

Brad is doing fine. Show me where I am on his case over his decision

not to implant his son. None of us are in any position to challenge him on

that one. And Brad certainly doesn't need a " defender " , he has held his own

just dandy. We agree to disagree/

Now if YOU wish to challenge MY opinions, go for it! But please, dont

tell me to back off. Cheers!

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

Wait...I'm trying to imagine you with a personality.

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Jerome,

I am responding to this only in the broader sense. That is, we

are not always privy to the WHYs of one's decisions. We do not need

to know. And in all fairness, we should not keep asking WHY. It IS

his son, it IS his ultimate responsibility and we should respect that.

There is not one of us who can walk in another's shoes.

(not defending Brad, am defending the principle.)

*---* *---* *---* *---* *---*

There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.

-- Ben

& Gimlet (Guide Dawggie)

Portland, Oregon

N24C 3G 8/2000 Hookup

rlclark77@...

http://home.comcast.net/~rlclark77/

[Guest guest]

Jerome,

Brad does not have to justify Why he has not chosen the implant for his child.

This is his personal business and if he wishes to offer it, he will. Let's

respect his decision.

Thanks,

Alice

[Guest guest]

> Also I'm so glad that

> Brad is willing to share that part of his life with this group. To

say nothing

> of having adopted a child who may never have had a chance to be

loved or

> cherished without Brad in his life.

Amen!

CI or no CI a child (ANY child) doesn't have a chance of ever

having any sort of life at all if there not in a family that loves

and supports them.

Our adopted daughter was badly neglected when we adopted her at age

4. Eight years later there's still signs of that neglect and I

suspect she'll carry some of it the rest of her life.

Hearing or deaf; signing or oral; implanted or non-implanted- Brad

and his family have given his son the most important thing: a loving

family.

-Jeff

Clarion 90K 12/03

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pam,

Yep that's the situation.

____________________________________________

Best Regards,

Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

Editor

EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

www.bradingrao.com

e-mail: info@...

Re: Brad

In a message dated 6/4/2004 8:58:03 AM Alaskan Daylight Time,

Jonikt4@...

writes:

> i thought brad already explained why.... that it was not appropriate

> for his son at this time and his son has many other issues to deal

> with. i think sometimes we forget that there are other things such as

> " readiness " and being " motivated " for a ci...for some people that

> comes later, rather than

> " right now " Even at a ci eval, the ci team can refer people to

therapist

> to more accurately assess one for ci...there are many things to

> consdier when deciding to get a ci. its a big step and life changing

> as most of you know.

>

> joni

>

I worked with emotionally unstable children through out my career as an

RN

(25 years) and there wasn't one of them I would have considered stable

enough

for something like a CI.. they couldn't even take care of or use a pair

of

glasses properly and many had no independent living skills even as

teenagers. They

didn't know how to take a bath or look up something in the yellow pages,

much

less benefit from a cochlear implant had they been deaf. These children

were

already hearing but I can guarantee, they made no productive use of

their

hearing.

One thing is for sure, you have to have your feet firmly planted on the

ground and a committed and dedicated eye toward the goal in order to

successfully

be implanted. If those things aren't in place it won't work.

I'm sure that if hearing could *cure* his son from whatever else ails

him,

Brad would be the first in line for the CI.

My hat is off to a parent who truly seems to know what is important and

puts

his child's mental welfare before societal pressures. Also I'm so glad

that

Brad is willing to share that part of his life with this group. To say

nothing

of having adopted a child who may never have had a chance to be loved or

cherished without Brad in his life.

Pam

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/4/04 1:00:41 PM, jt1@... writes:

> Now, I wonder what Brad knows that we don't know.

>

it's very clear brad knows his son!!!! having kids is hard adopting

kids is harder adopting kids with special needs is down right tough

i have 3 bio kids and adopted 3 kids with special needs each of my kids

pose challenges while growing up but the challenges that my kids with

special needs are far more complicated, and on going than others

throughout the years i have had to make choices that were not the norm or

popular because i knew my child best i knew his/her past and how it still

is

apart of their lives as a mom i see the whole child ... not just what

works and what doesn't so far it seems to be working kids

that were once thought to have almost no real future are doing better than

anyone could have imagined good luck to you brad

susan

[Guest guest]

I think everyone who thinks Brad was getting Flak about not having

his very special son implanted should go back and really read what

the thread was about.. It wasn't about his decision not to implant

him or not.. Rather we were discussing the meaning of the word

miracle and what it means to each of us.. different folks, different

interpretations of the word and we were talking about success as a

group and cost effectiveness of those with ci's.. No one was

attacking Brad for not implanting his young son.. That is entirely

his choice and what works for him and his family is what is exactly

right for him...and yes, we do thank him for sharing his views and

this part of his life with us.

I think all adoptive parents are very special people(parents) and

they are already doing something huge and life altering for the

child or children they adopt.

My hats off to all of you!!!

Hugs and have a great weekend.

Silly MI

> Thanks Pam,

>

> Yep that's the situation.

>

> ____________________________________________

> Best Regards,

>

> Brad Ingrao, M.S.Ed. CCC-A, FAAA

> Editor

> EDEN - The Electronic Deaf Education Network

> www.bradingrao.com

> e-mail: info@b...

>

>

> Re: Brad

>

> In a message dated 6/4/2004 8:58:03 AM Alaskan Daylight Time,

> Jonikt4@A...

> writes:

>

> > i thought brad already explained why.... that it was not

appropriate

> > for his son at this time and his son has many other issues to

deal

> > with. i think sometimes we forget that there are other things

such as

>

> > " readiness " and being " motivated " for a ci...for some people

that

> > comes later, rather than

> > " right now " Even at a ci eval, the ci team can refer people to

> therapist

> > to more accurately assess one for ci...there are many things to

> > consdier when deciding to get a ci. its a big step and life

changing

> > as most of you know.

> >

> > joni

> >

>

>