Re: Question RE: CMS revisions to Medicare policy

[Guest guest]

Ken, , , et. al. --

AHAH! The State of Arkansas comes to my feeble little mind.

So... a Doc who bills anyone for pt-type services " incident to " a physician

visit may be legal for the time being... but after June 1, it'll have to be

performed by a person who meets CMS definition of a therapist, short of

licensure. That will include evaluations, Plans of Care, short and

long-term goals, certs & re-certs, daily progress notes, discharge

summaries, and the entire package we associate with " PT " .

Hm-m-m... as we've seen in the Arkansas chiropractic case, some State board

may consider these acts to meet their definition of " Physical Therapy " and

pursue someone.

Mightn't a Doc calim that if it's under his/her license, any and all PT is

legal?

Interesting. But it's still better than having the " tech " or " aide " do the

work, isn't it?

Dick Hillyer, PT

Cape Coral, FL

Re: Question RE: CMS revisions to Medicare policy

Follow my logic please:

[First, an apology to anyone offended by thinking they were referred

to as crooks in a now deleted post, this is not the case. I have

nothing but respect for the persons who use this board and have the

courage to post opinions that might be offensive to some. A full

retraction to anyone named Ken and everyone who reads this list-serve

as I do not believe any of you to be crooks. Thank you.]

Now, back to topic.

And correct any factual or logical flaw in this, please, and this

loophole may become problematic.

1. PTs without licenses can work in Physicians offices.

2. The MDs can bill 3rd party payors (including medicare) for this.

3. The PT has no license (or willingly forfeits the license), works

in the MD office, and the MD can continue to bill for it.

4. The PT state board cannot regulate one who has no license.

5. A change in the PT practice act prohibiting such practice

arrangements has no value in that type of practice.

Thanks.

Simonetti, PT

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

[Guest guest]

Ken, , , et. al. --

AHAH! The State of Arkansas comes to my feeble little mind.

So... a Doc who bills anyone for pt-type services " incident to " a physician

visit may be legal for the time being... but after June 1, it'll have to be

performed by a person who meets CMS definition of a therapist, short of

licensure. That will include evaluations, Plans of Care, short and

long-term goals, certs & re-certs, daily progress notes, discharge

summaries, and the entire package we associate with " PT " .

Hm-m-m... as we've seen in the Arkansas chiropractic case, some State board

may consider these acts to meet their definition of " Physical Therapy " and

pursue someone.

Mightn't a Doc calim that if it's under his/her license, any and all PT is

legal?

Interesting. But it's still better than having the " tech " or " aide " do the

work, isn't it?

Dick Hillyer, PT

Cape Coral, FL

Re: Question RE: CMS revisions to Medicare policy

Follow my logic please:

[First, an apology to anyone offended by thinking they were referred

to as crooks in a now deleted post, this is not the case. I have

nothing but respect for the persons who use this board and have the

courage to post opinions that might be offensive to some. A full

retraction to anyone named Ken and everyone who reads this list-serve

as I do not believe any of you to be crooks. Thank you.]

Now, back to topic.

And correct any factual or logical flaw in this, please, and this

loophole may become problematic.

1. PTs without licenses can work in Physicians offices.

2. The MDs can bill 3rd party payors (including medicare) for this.

3. The PT has no license (or willingly forfeits the license), works

in the MD office, and the MD can continue to bill for it.

4. The PT state board cannot regulate one who has no license.

5. A change in the PT practice act prohibiting such practice

arrangements has no value in that type of practice.

Thanks.

Simonetti, PT

Looking to start your own Practice?

Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to arrange

PTManager encourages participation in your professional association. Join

and participate now!

[Guest guest]

I just stumbled upon this, in a sense, provoking more curiosity than

answering my questions. NATA is challenging the incident to ruling

by CMS.

source

http://www.alata.org/

Simonetti, PT

Chestertown, MD

> Please keep in mind that many of the points being made regarding

this topic

> constitute legal arguments or regulatory interpretations. As

such, they can

> only truly be answered by the courts, or regulatory agency

responsible for

> enforcement. While it may be tempting for us to form our own

conclusions

> about this issue, it really is a mistake to do so.

>

> That having been said, here are some personal opinions on these

questions:

>

> 1. PTs without licenses can work in Physicians offices.

> If you don't have a license, you are not a PT.

>

> 2. The MDs can bill 3rd party payors (including medicare) for

this.

> You are making a broad assumption that has not been tested

yet under

> Medicare, but courts might dispute this conclusion.

>

> 3. The PT has no license (or willingly forfeits the license),

works

> in the MD office, and the MD can continue to bill for it.

> Again, you are making a broad assumption subject to

individual state

> statutes & regulations.

>

> 4. The PT state board cannot regulate one who has no license.

> Not true, unless statutorily prohibited. The unlicensed

practice of

> any profession is genrerally punishable by the respective Board of

the

> profession, if not as a criminal offense.

>

> 5. A change in the PT practice act prohibiting such practice

arrangements

> has no value in that type of practice.

> Again, you are making an assumption about State law.

>

>

> Ken Mailly, PT

> Mailly & Inglett Consulting, LLC

> Tel. 973 692-0033

> Fax 973 633-9557

> 68 Seneca Trail

> Wayne, NJ, 07470

> www.NJPTAid.biz

>

> Bridging the Gap!

>

> Confidentiality Note: This electronic mail is a communication from

M & I

> Consulting that may be privileged, confidential or otherwise

protected from

> disclosure. This information contained herein, is intended to be

for the

> addressee only. The authorized recipient of this information is

prohibited

> from disclosing this information to any other party and is

required to

> destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled.

>

> If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, copy, distribution

or action

> taken in reliance on the contents of this electronic mail is

strictly

> prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error,

please

> notify the sender immediately.

>

> Re: Question RE: CMS revisions to Medicare

policy

>

> Follow my logic please:

>

> [First, an apology to anyone offended by thinking they were

referred

> to as crooks in a now deleted post, this is not the case. I have

> nothing but respect for the persons who use this board and have

the

> courage to post opinions that might be offensive to some. A full

> retraction to anyone named Ken and everyone who reads this list-

serve

> as I do not believe any of you to be crooks. Thank you.]

>

> Now, back to topic.

> And correct any factual or logical flaw in this, please, and this

> loophole may become problematic.

>

> 1. PTs without licenses can work in Physicians offices.

> 2. The MDs can bill 3rd party payors (including medicare) for

this.

> 3. The PT has no license (or willingly forfeits the license),

works

> in the MD office, and the MD can continue to bill for it.

> 4. The PT state board cannot regulate one who has no license.

> 5. A change in the PT practice act prohibiting such practice

> arrangements has no value in that type of practice.

>

> Thanks.

> Simonetti, PT

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

> professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to

arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association. Join

> and participate now!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks . That's not a cheap endeavor for a battle they will certainly lose.

I would rethink my selection of the law firm that would pursue such a matter.

Attorneys are paid to give you probability percentages based on case study and

most recent legislation. Nothing good comes from attempting to sue the

government, no matter how feeble their case. Just a practical opinion. Doug

A question - didn't the November 3, 2004 APTA/CMS agreement place the same

standards on physicians as that of a private practice therapist? If that's the

case, non licensed personnel cannot treat. Thanks!

Re: Question RE: CMS revisions to Medicare

policy

>

> Follow my logic please:

>

> [First, an apology to anyone offended by thinking they were

referred

> to as crooks in a now deleted post, this is not the case. I have

> nothing but respect for the persons who use this board and have

the

> courage to post opinions that might be offensive to some. A full

> retraction to anyone named Ken and everyone who reads this list-

serve

> as I do not believe any of you to be crooks. Thank you.]

>

> Now, back to topic.

> And correct any factual or logical flaw in this, please, and this

> loophole may become problematic.

>

> 1. PTs without licenses can work in Physicians offices.

> 2. The MDs can bill 3rd party payors (including medicare) for

this.

> 3. The PT has no license (or willingly forfeits the license),

works

> in the MD office, and the MD can continue to bill for it.

> 4. The PT state board cannot regulate one who has no license.

> 5. A change in the PT practice act prohibiting such practice

> arrangements has no value in that type of practice.

>

> Thanks.

> Simonetti, PT

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Looking to start your own Practice?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com<http://www.inhomerehab.com/>.

> Bring PTManager to your organization or State Association with a

> professional workshop or course - call us at 313 884-8920 to

arrange

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association. Join

> and participate now!

>