RE: Is there controversy in the diabetes community?

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a

è class dh and I took last year. In my personal guide, it

è said for me to eat about 190 grams of carbs a day and

è dh to eat 240. What is going on here. Are the

è experts telling us all really different things. I know the

è low carb diet has not been popular, but I couldn't

è believe the differences in what we learned in school and

è what I am now reading. It is a food lobby or something

è else?

seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part are still

telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the patients are

saying the low carb under 50 g a day

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a

è class dh and I took last year. In my personal guide, it

è said for me to eat about 190 grams of carbs a day and

è dh to eat 240. What is going on here. Are the

è experts telling us all really different things. I know the

è low carb diet has not been popular, but I couldn't

è believe the differences in what we learned in school and

è what I am now reading. It is a food lobby or something

è else?

seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part are still

telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the patients are

saying the low carb under 50 g a day

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a

è class dh and I took last year. In my personal guide, it

è said for me to eat about 190 grams of carbs a day and

è dh to eat 240. What is going on here. Are the

è experts telling us all really different things. I know the

è low carb diet has not been popular, but I couldn't

è believe the differences in what we learned in school and

è what I am now reading. It is a food lobby or something

è else?

seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part are still

telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the patients are

saying the low carb under 50 g a day

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes

è class, and some of it was from the Rx companies. I

è guess if we eat too many carbs, they get to sell more

è pills. Crazy idea?

Well i know that various people eat differently and manage their diabetes in

diff ways but a lot of people that tend to eat low carb, do feel that esp the

ADA is supported by the Rx co's. and therefore promotes carbs so we then take

drugs.

I personally would rather not take meds, so i'd rather eat very low carb.

on a side note, the food you mentioned eating, porkchops, navybeans, corn

bread and half a muffins would have sent my bs flying also. I can handle

eating one - 2 servings of starchy carbs a day but if i had beans that would

be it for the day, other than veggie carbs like broccoli and brusselsprouts

which carb count is rather low.

Keep eating and testing and eating and testing, and try to stay close to

either 100 or 120, which is what most folk feel is safe.

180 is the renal threshold where the sugar starts to spill into the urine,

and this is NOT a good place to be.

Its thought that complications occur when your bs is sustained over 140.

Hang in there and keep testing.

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes

è class, and some of it was from the Rx companies. I

è guess if we eat too many carbs, they get to sell more

è pills. Crazy idea?

Well i know that various people eat differently and manage their diabetes in

diff ways but a lot of people that tend to eat low carb, do feel that esp the

ADA is supported by the Rx co's. and therefore promotes carbs so we then take

drugs.

I personally would rather not take meds, so i'd rather eat very low carb.

on a side note, the food you mentioned eating, porkchops, navybeans, corn

bread and half a muffins would have sent my bs flying also. I can handle

eating one - 2 servings of starchy carbs a day but if i had beans that would

be it for the day, other than veggie carbs like broccoli and brusselsprouts

which carb count is rather low.

Keep eating and testing and eating and testing, and try to stay close to

either 100 or 120, which is what most folk feel is safe.

180 is the renal threshold where the sugar starts to spill into the urine,

and this is NOT a good place to be.

Its thought that complications occur when your bs is sustained over 140.

Hang in there and keep testing.

[Guest guest]

Hello sdfoster1@...,

In reference to your comment:

è I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes

è class, and some of it was from the Rx companies. I

è guess if we eat too many carbs, they get to sell more

è pills. Crazy idea?

Well i know that various people eat differently and manage their diabetes in

diff ways but a lot of people that tend to eat low carb, do feel that esp the

ADA is supported by the Rx co's. and therefore promotes carbs so we then take

drugs.

I personally would rather not take meds, so i'd rather eat very low carb.

on a side note, the food you mentioned eating, porkchops, navybeans, corn

bread and half a muffins would have sent my bs flying also. I can handle

eating one - 2 servings of starchy carbs a day but if i had beans that would

be it for the day, other than veggie carbs like broccoli and brusselsprouts

which carb count is rather low.

Keep eating and testing and eating and testing, and try to stay close to

either 100 or 120, which is what most folk feel is safe.

180 is the renal threshold where the sugar starts to spill into the urine,

and this is NOT a good place to be.

Its thought that complications occur when your bs is sustained over 140.

Hang in there and keep testing.

[Guest guest]

> Hello sdfoster1@y...,

>

> In reference to your comment:

> seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part

are still

> telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the

patients are

> saying the low carb under 50 g a day

>

Hi ,

I like that idea too, but I remember that two of my teachers were

diabetics. Although one was very, very overweight. One had a

son who had Number one. So they are somewhat experts too. I

just don't know what to believe except the numbers I read

everyday.

Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

Two hours later it was 172.

I'm reading some chapters in the back of " Diabetes Solutions "

and I believe that he is going to tell some of the controversy.

I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

Sheila

[Guest guest]

> Hello sdfoster1@y...,

>

> In reference to your comment:

> seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part

are still

> telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the

patients are

> saying the low carb under 50 g a day

>

Hi ,

I like that idea too, but I remember that two of my teachers were

diabetics. Although one was very, very overweight. One had a

son who had Number one. So they are somewhat experts too. I

just don't know what to believe except the numbers I read

everyday.

Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

Two hours later it was 172.

I'm reading some chapters in the back of " Diabetes Solutions "

and I believe that he is going to tell some of the controversy.

I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

Sheila

[Guest guest]

> Hello sdfoster1@y...,

>

> In reference to your comment:

> seems to me that the experts ie professionals for the most part

are still

> telling me what you quoted above, but the real experts the

patients are

> saying the low carb under 50 g a day

>

Hi ,

I like that idea too, but I remember that two of my teachers were

diabetics. Although one was very, very overweight. One had a

son who had Number one. So they are somewhat experts too. I

just don't know what to believe except the numbers I read

everyday.

Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

Two hours later it was 172.

I'm reading some chapters in the back of " Diabetes Solutions "

and I believe that he is going to tell some of the controversy.

I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Not to put down your cousin but being a diabetic educator doesn't guarantee

good diabetic dietary advice, unfortunately...a lot of them are parrotting

the " party line " about 60% carbs being necessary for a healthy diet, the same

as many doctors. This is bunk.

On the other hand, I think 30 grams per day is pretty hard for the average

person to stick to, though I'm sure there are some REALLY motivated people

out there who do it. As a prime example, Dr. Bernstein himself has been

eating 30 carbs per day for many, many years and apparently has no kidney

damage (that we know of, at least).

And I'm sure there are others.

I don't think there's an official study that has shown an unquestionable

connection between lowcarbing and kidney damage. If you know of one, I'd sure

like to see it. On the other hand, it seems to be a pretty well-established

rumor.

Kidney damage does occur in poorly controlled diabetics - as it does in the

general population. It can be caused by many things, but I don't believe

lowcarb eating is one of them .As you mention, the true test will be many

years down the road when those of us who have been lowcarbing will either

have very bad kidneys or will be living longer and healthier lives as a

result of longterm lowcarbing. See you in 20 years, smile. Vicki, who

moderately carbs (between 60 and 100 per day).

<< From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

heart...

I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..

As usual balance..

I think if you eat low carb and cut the bad fats out you will be very

healthy..

- >>

[Guest guest]

Not to put down your cousin but being a diabetic educator doesn't guarantee

good diabetic dietary advice, unfortunately...a lot of them are parrotting

the " party line " about 60% carbs being necessary for a healthy diet, the same

as many doctors. This is bunk.

On the other hand, I think 30 grams per day is pretty hard for the average

person to stick to, though I'm sure there are some REALLY motivated people

out there who do it. As a prime example, Dr. Bernstein himself has been

eating 30 carbs per day for many, many years and apparently has no kidney

damage (that we know of, at least).

And I'm sure there are others.

I don't think there's an official study that has shown an unquestionable

connection between lowcarbing and kidney damage. If you know of one, I'd sure

like to see it. On the other hand, it seems to be a pretty well-established

rumor.

Kidney damage does occur in poorly controlled diabetics - as it does in the

general population. It can be caused by many things, but I don't believe

lowcarb eating is one of them .As you mention, the true test will be many

years down the road when those of us who have been lowcarbing will either

have very bad kidneys or will be living longer and healthier lives as a

result of longterm lowcarbing. See you in 20 years, smile. Vicki, who

moderately carbs (between 60 and 100 per day).

<< From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

heart...

I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..

As usual balance..

I think if you eat low carb and cut the bad fats out you will be very

healthy..

- >>

[Guest guest]

Not to put down your cousin but being a diabetic educator doesn't guarantee

good diabetic dietary advice, unfortunately...a lot of them are parrotting

the " party line " about 60% carbs being necessary for a healthy diet, the same

as many doctors. This is bunk.

On the other hand, I think 30 grams per day is pretty hard for the average

person to stick to, though I'm sure there are some REALLY motivated people

out there who do it. As a prime example, Dr. Bernstein himself has been

eating 30 carbs per day for many, many years and apparently has no kidney

damage (that we know of, at least).

And I'm sure there are others.

I don't think there's an official study that has shown an unquestionable

connection between lowcarbing and kidney damage. If you know of one, I'd sure

like to see it. On the other hand, it seems to be a pretty well-established

rumor.

Kidney damage does occur in poorly controlled diabetics - as it does in the

general population. It can be caused by many things, but I don't believe

lowcarb eating is one of them .As you mention, the true test will be many

years down the road when those of us who have been lowcarbing will either

have very bad kidneys or will be living longer and healthier lives as a

result of longterm lowcarbing. See you in 20 years, smile. Vicki, who

moderately carbs (between 60 and 100 per day).

<< From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

heart...

I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..

As usual balance..

I think if you eat low carb and cut the bad fats out you will be very

healthy..

- >>

[Guest guest]

> Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

> cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

> and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

> muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

> went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

> positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

***Navy beans, cornbread and muffins would spike me big time. I can handle

a little bit of navy beans, if the rest of the meal is low carb. Cornbread

and muffins are out for me, as both are very high glycemic and high carb.

>

> Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

> sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

**Another thing I've noticed is when I do eat carbs, I crave more carbs

because of the roller coaster effect carbs have on my bs. When I lower my

carbs, I don't have the cravings, so I don't eat them, so I don't roller

coaster...and not only do I maintain good control, but I feel so much

better.

>

> Two hours later it was 172.

**This spike would be the bread in the sub. I'm so glad you're testing and

hope you're keeping good notes. It might be easier if you only ate one

carby thing with a meal to test, so you'll really get a good idea of how the

carbs spike your blood sugar.

>

> I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

> some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

> many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

***Yes, but this is how it is. The food and drug companies make tons of

money from dm's eating a carby diet. Glad you're reading Bernstein, Sheila.

Before drugs and before injectable insulin the prescribed way to control

diabetes was by lowering carbohydrate intake.

Barb

[Guest guest]

> Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

> cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

> and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

> muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

> went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

> positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

***Navy beans, cornbread and muffins would spike me big time. I can handle

a little bit of navy beans, if the rest of the meal is low carb. Cornbread

and muffins are out for me, as both are very high glycemic and high carb.

>

> Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

> sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

**Another thing I've noticed is when I do eat carbs, I crave more carbs

because of the roller coaster effect carbs have on my bs. When I lower my

carbs, I don't have the cravings, so I don't eat them, so I don't roller

coaster...and not only do I maintain good control, but I feel so much

better.

>

> Two hours later it was 172.

**This spike would be the bread in the sub. I'm so glad you're testing and

hope you're keeping good notes. It might be easier if you only ate one

carby thing with a meal to test, so you'll really get a good idea of how the

carbs spike your blood sugar.

>

> I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

> some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

> many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

***Yes, but this is how it is. The food and drug companies make tons of

money from dm's eating a carby diet. Glad you're reading Bernstein, Sheila.

Before drugs and before injectable insulin the prescribed way to control

diabetes was by lowering carbohydrate intake.

Barb

[Guest guest]

> Today for dinner I made navy beans cooked with porkchops and

> cornbread. I had about a cup and a half of beans and a slice

> and a half of cornbread. Then my son asked dh to bring in some

> muffins from Costco. I ate a half of one and my blood sugar

> went from 126 before dinner to 287 after dinner. I'm almost

> positive it was the muffin. I hope the cornbread didn't do it.

***Navy beans, cornbread and muffins would spike me big time. I can handle

a little bit of navy beans, if the rest of the meal is low carb. Cornbread

and muffins are out for me, as both are very high glycemic and high carb.

>

> Since I ate dinner very early, I was starving, so I ate a six inch sub

> sandwich and some peanuts. Then did five miles on my bike.

**Another thing I've noticed is when I do eat carbs, I crave more carbs

because of the roller coaster effect carbs have on my bs. When I lower my

carbs, I don't have the cravings, so I don't eat them, so I don't roller

coaster...and not only do I maintain good control, but I feel so much

better.

>

> Two hours later it was 172.

**This spike would be the bread in the sub. I'm so glad you're testing and

hope you're keeping good notes. It might be easier if you only ate one

carby thing with a meal to test, so you'll really get a good idea of how the

carbs spike your blood sugar.

>

> I did look at some of the literature from my diabetes class, and

> some of it was from the Rx companies. I guess if we eat too

> many carbs, they get to sell more pills. Crazy idea?

***Yes, but this is how it is. The food and drug companies make tons of

money from dm's eating a carby diet. Glad you're reading Bernstein, Sheila.

Before drugs and before injectable insulin the prescribed way to control

diabetes was by lowering carbohydrate intake.

Barb

[Guest guest]

From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

heart...

I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..

As usual balance..

I think if you eat low carb and cut the bad fats out you will be very

healthy..

Is there controversy in the diabetes community?

Hi,

As you guys suggested I bought and am reading " Diabetes

Solution " which says to keep your daily carbs low. This is

working for me, although today it was hard. I had to have some

goodies in the house for Mom, and I cheated a little.

Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a class dh

and I took last year. In my personal guide, it said for me to eat

about 190 grams of carbs a day and dh to eat 240. What is

going on here. Are the experts telling us all really different

things.

I know the low carb diet has not been popular, but I couldn't

believe the differences in what we learned in school and what I

am now reading. It is a food lobby or something else?

What gives?

Sheila

**All email sent through this mail list is Copyrighted by the original

author. Permission must be obtained from the original author for the

re-use of any text (in whole or in part).

Website for Diabetes International:

http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

Shared Files: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diabetes_int/files

[Guest guest]

<<<I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..>>>

How many years are we talking about? Dr. Atkins is no spring chicken and he's

been following his own LC diet for more than 30 years. Seing as how I am going

on 60, I doubt if I will have 30 more years to go but if I do it will be on a

lowcarb program such as Atkins or Bernsteins.

I agree with the person who said these " experts " are simply parroting the

misinformation they've been fed.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

<<<I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..>>>

How many years are we talking about? Dr. Atkins is no spring chicken and he's

been following his own LC diet for more than 30 years. Seing as how I am going

on 60, I doubt if I will have 30 more years to go but if I do it will be on a

lowcarb program such as Atkins or Bernsteins.

I agree with the person who said these " experts " are simply parroting the

misinformation they've been fed.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

<<<I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

people will see when they get in older..>>>

How many years are we talking about? Dr. Atkins is no spring chicken and he's

been following his own LC diet for more than 30 years. Seing as how I am going

on 60, I doubt if I will have 30 more years to go but if I do it will be on a

lowcarb program such as Atkins or Bernsteins.

I agree with the person who said these " experts " are simply parroting the

misinformation they've been fed.

in Seattle...

[Guest guest]

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

>

> As usual balance..

***I definitely agree with the balance, but my body just doesn't tolerate

many carbs. I've found that some do and some don't. My goal for myself is

an hbA1c under 6.0, and the only way I can achieve that is by eating what

most people would consider a lower carb diet. I eat around 100 grams of

carbs per day and am on insulin by choice for tight control. I've found

that if I increase my carb count (I am speaking just for me here), my

insulin needs go up, I gain weight, my bs bounces around, my cravings return

and I don't feel as well or energetic as usual.

Actually, as we've said before, before insulin and meds low carb was the

only way to control diabetes. I just doesn't make sense to me to eat

something that will spike my bs into numbers that are conducive to

complications. From what I've read on the kidney issue, the patients that

already have damaged kidneys must be careful of excess protein. I haven't

found any study that proves that high protein in a sensible diet with lots

of low glycemic vegetables damages kidneys.

I am not a doc, and this is simply what works for me in my 5 years of

experience. Control is what's important here, as well as frequent testing

and note keeping. What each of us eats in order to maintain our good

control is strictly a matter of what works best in our bodies.

Barb

Type II, insulin by choice, Alpha Lipoic Acid, hbA1c 5.8, moderate carb

intake

[Guest guest]

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

>

> As usual balance..

***I definitely agree with the balance, but my body just doesn't tolerate

many carbs. I've found that some do and some don't. My goal for myself is

an hbA1c under 6.0, and the only way I can achieve that is by eating what

most people would consider a lower carb diet. I eat around 100 grams of

carbs per day and am on insulin by choice for tight control. I've found

that if I increase my carb count (I am speaking just for me here), my

insulin needs go up, I gain weight, my bs bounces around, my cravings return

and I don't feel as well or energetic as usual.

Actually, as we've said before, before insulin and meds low carb was the

only way to control diabetes. I just doesn't make sense to me to eat

something that will spike my bs into numbers that are conducive to

complications. From what I've read on the kidney issue, the patients that

already have damaged kidneys must be careful of excess protein. I haven't

found any study that proves that high protein in a sensible diet with lots

of low glycemic vegetables damages kidneys.

I am not a doc, and this is simply what works for me in my 5 years of

experience. Control is what's important here, as well as frequent testing

and note keeping. What each of us eats in order to maintain our good

control is strictly a matter of what works best in our bodies.

Barb

Type II, insulin by choice, Alpha Lipoic Acid, hbA1c 5.8, moderate carb

intake

[Guest guest]

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

>

> As usual balance..

***I definitely agree with the balance, but my body just doesn't tolerate

many carbs. I've found that some do and some don't. My goal for myself is

an hbA1c under 6.0, and the only way I can achieve that is by eating what

most people would consider a lower carb diet. I eat around 100 grams of

carbs per day and am on insulin by choice for tight control. I've found

that if I increase my carb count (I am speaking just for me here), my

insulin needs go up, I gain weight, my bs bounces around, my cravings return

and I don't feel as well or energetic as usual.

Actually, as we've said before, before insulin and meds low carb was the

only way to control diabetes. I just doesn't make sense to me to eat

something that will spike my bs into numbers that are conducive to

complications. From what I've read on the kidney issue, the patients that

already have damaged kidneys must be careful of excess protein. I haven't

found any study that proves that high protein in a sensible diet with lots

of low glycemic vegetables damages kidneys.

I am not a doc, and this is simply what works for me in my 5 years of

experience. Control is what's important here, as well as frequent testing

and note keeping. What each of us eats in order to maintain our good

control is strictly a matter of what works best in our bodies.

Barb

Type II, insulin by choice, Alpha Lipoic Acid, hbA1c 5.8, moderate carb

intake

[Guest guest]

Part 1.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: sdfoster1@...

> As you guys suggested I bought and am reading " Diabetes

> Solution " which says to keep your daily carbs low. This is ...

> Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a class dh

> and I took last year. In my personal guide, it said for me to eat

> about 190 grams of carbs a day and dh to eat 240. What is

> going on here. Are the experts telling us all really different

> things.

As you see from the various replies, the " experts " really are telling us

very different things, and there is considerable controversy on this issue.

One thing to realize is that very few practicing doctors are really experts

on diabetes. Dr. Bernstein is one of the few. Most practicing doctors use

the guidelines published by professional societies such as the ADA as their

guidelines for proper treatment -- they don't have the time to personally

extensively study every medical paper for every disease. On the other hand,

we have a special interest in diabetes and can become more expert on the

subject of how it, and our diet, etc., affects our own bodies than our

doctors are.

Next, doctors and dieticians generally have been extensively indoctrinated

toward the USDA food guidelines, and like most of us, are not prone to

change easily. Most of them have not read the Science magazine article

earlier this year showing that there is little or no real scientific

evidence that the USDA guidelines and food pyramid extend ones expected

lifetime.

Many of us have found that eating low or very low carb diets allows us to

control our blood sugars, weight, cholesterol, tryglicerides, etc. -- often

with no or minimal medications (for type 2's; obviously type 1's always need

insulin). In other words, eating this way works for us.

Part 2.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: CLD

>

> From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

> tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

> low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

> heart...

>

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb

> and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

As briefly mentioned above, there is little or no evidence to back up the

" healthfulness " of the generally accepted low fat, high carb, low calorie

diet recommendations of the USDA. Contrary to CLD, I suspect that the

dangers of very low fat diets (and there are some) will become more widely

known, as will the evidence (which is currently available but not widely

disseminated) that dietary fats (except for trans fats like hydrogenated

oils found, for example, in margarines) have not been shown to be the cause

of high cholesterol and heart problems. In other words, I suspect that it is

the very low fat, high carb diets that will be seen as the real fad diets.

In fact, there is quite a bit of published medical research showing that it

is high carb, rather than high fat, consumption that really raises

triclyceride levels in most people, and triglycerides are much more of a

heart risk than total cholesterol.

Enough for one post.

Tom the Actuary

[Guest guest]

Part 1.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: sdfoster1@...

> As you guys suggested I bought and am reading " Diabetes

> Solution " which says to keep your daily carbs low. This is ...

> Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a class dh

> and I took last year. In my personal guide, it said for me to eat

> about 190 grams of carbs a day and dh to eat 240. What is

> going on here. Are the experts telling us all really different

> things.

As you see from the various replies, the " experts " really are telling us

very different things, and there is considerable controversy on this issue.

One thing to realize is that very few practicing doctors are really experts

on diabetes. Dr. Bernstein is one of the few. Most practicing doctors use

the guidelines published by professional societies such as the ADA as their

guidelines for proper treatment -- they don't have the time to personally

extensively study every medical paper for every disease. On the other hand,

we have a special interest in diabetes and can become more expert on the

subject of how it, and our diet, etc., affects our own bodies than our

doctors are.

Next, doctors and dieticians generally have been extensively indoctrinated

toward the USDA food guidelines, and like most of us, are not prone to

change easily. Most of them have not read the Science magazine article

earlier this year showing that there is little or no real scientific

evidence that the USDA guidelines and food pyramid extend ones expected

lifetime.

Many of us have found that eating low or very low carb diets allows us to

control our blood sugars, weight, cholesterol, tryglicerides, etc. -- often

with no or minimal medications (for type 2's; obviously type 1's always need

insulin). In other words, eating this way works for us.

Part 2.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: CLD

>

> From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

> tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

> low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

> heart...

>

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb

> and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

As briefly mentioned above, there is little or no evidence to back up the

" healthfulness " of the generally accepted low fat, high carb, low calorie

diet recommendations of the USDA. Contrary to CLD, I suspect that the

dangers of very low fat diets (and there are some) will become more widely

known, as will the evidence (which is currently available but not widely

disseminated) that dietary fats (except for trans fats like hydrogenated

oils found, for example, in margarines) have not been shown to be the cause

of high cholesterol and heart problems. In other words, I suspect that it is

the very low fat, high carb diets that will be seen as the real fad diets.

In fact, there is quite a bit of published medical research showing that it

is high carb, rather than high fat, consumption that really raises

triclyceride levels in most people, and triglycerides are much more of a

heart risk than total cholesterol.

Enough for one post.

Tom the Actuary

[Guest guest]

Part 1.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: sdfoster1@...

> As you guys suggested I bought and am reading " Diabetes

> Solution " which says to keep your daily carbs low. This is ...

> Anyway, I got out my diabetes education book from a class dh

> and I took last year. In my personal guide, it said for me to eat

> about 190 grams of carbs a day and dh to eat 240. What is

> going on here. Are the experts telling us all really different

> things.

As you see from the various replies, the " experts " really are telling us

very different things, and there is considerable controversy on this issue.

One thing to realize is that very few practicing doctors are really experts

on diabetes. Dr. Bernstein is one of the few. Most practicing doctors use

the guidelines published by professional societies such as the ADA as their

guidelines for proper treatment -- they don't have the time to personally

extensively study every medical paper for every disease. On the other hand,

we have a special interest in diabetes and can become more expert on the

subject of how it, and our diet, etc., affects our own bodies than our

doctors are.

Next, doctors and dieticians generally have been extensively indoctrinated

toward the USDA food guidelines, and like most of us, are not prone to

change easily. Most of them have not read the Science magazine article

earlier this year showing that there is little or no real scientific

evidence that the USDA guidelines and food pyramid extend ones expected

lifetime.

Many of us have found that eating low or very low carb diets allows us to

control our blood sugars, weight, cholesterol, tryglicerides, etc. -- often

with no or minimal medications (for type 2's; obviously type 1's always need

insulin). In other words, eating this way works for us.

Part 2.

> -----Original Message-----

> From: CLD

>

> From what I have read and what my cousin who is a diabetes educator

> tells me is that too low/no carbs is very hard on the kidneys and some

> low carbers eat too much fat and too much beef which are hard on the

> heart...

>

> I think in years to come we will see that the very low carb

> and high fat

> diets will be very unpopular because of the health problems that these

> people will see when they get in older..

As briefly mentioned above, there is little or no evidence to back up the

" healthfulness " of the generally accepted low fat, high carb, low calorie

diet recommendations of the USDA. Contrary to CLD, I suspect that the

dangers of very low fat diets (and there are some) will become more widely

known, as will the evidence (which is currently available but not widely

disseminated) that dietary fats (except for trans fats like hydrogenated

oils found, for example, in margarines) have not been shown to be the cause

of high cholesterol and heart problems. In other words, I suspect that it is

the very low fat, high carb diets that will be seen as the real fad diets.

In fact, there is quite a bit of published medical research showing that it

is high carb, rather than high fat, consumption that really raises

triclyceride levels in most people, and triglycerides are much more of a

heart risk than total cholesterol.

Enough for one post.

Tom the Actuary