Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Malika - You've raised a significant question: That of how to determine how much partners get paid. It can be fraught with misunderstanding and discord, if not carefully handled. If you're starting a practice, I assume that you've arranged the services of an attorney, an accountant, and a practice consultant. By the way, every physical therapist is a manager of scarce resources. (LAMP - October, 11-12, 1998) Owners' compensation is often done according to the amount of ownership of each party. If you indeed own this entity in thirds, then amounts retained by the firm after bills are paid might be divided up according to that fraction: One third to each. Since two individuals are also providing clinical services, they could each get paid a flat monthly stipend, or according to the value they contribute. This could be an amount comparable to what the firm would pay any other competent therapist it hired, whether as a flat amount or as a percentage of what that individual therapist brings in. Between their compensation for actual clinical work and their 1/3 of the profits, they'd get their total compensation. You might do something similar: How much would any other firm have to pay any other comparable individual to do the administrative work you do? Is the office manager of a local medical practice an analogous skill set and accomplishment? Perhaps between that admin amount and your 1/3 of the profits, you'd have a fair market compensation. There are myriad similar ways to divide up the fruits of your combined labors. My experience is that too many folks have too high an assessment of their own value, and disagreements are easily encountered. A good consultant visit may be something like a visit to a good clinician: They may ask probing questions, look beyond your outer appearance, and they may poke around a bit. They may recommend something that you suspect, but haven't been handling. Your consultant may ask you what you were looking for as your own contribution. Were you anticipating getting paid as much for administrative work as the clinicians get paid for theirs? Were you considering a simple 1/3-1/3-1/3 split of the receipts and a one-third share of the expenses? you do not need to answer me, but you should each sit down with a sheet of paper and articulate your expectations. Entering into a new enterprise can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, so I wish your group well, and encourage you to approach it in a rational, rather than emotional manner. Dick Hillyer, PT, MBA, MSM Cape Coral, FL managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Malika - You've raised a significant question: That of how to determine how much partners get paid. It can be fraught with misunderstanding and discord, if not carefully handled. If you're starting a practice, I assume that you've arranged the services of an attorney, an accountant, and a practice consultant. By the way, every physical therapist is a manager of scarce resources. (LAMP - October, 11-12, 1998) Owners' compensation is often done according to the amount of ownership of each party. If you indeed own this entity in thirds, then amounts retained by the firm after bills are paid might be divided up according to that fraction: One third to each. Since two individuals are also providing clinical services, they could each get paid a flat monthly stipend, or according to the value they contribute. This could be an amount comparable to what the firm would pay any other competent therapist it hired, whether as a flat amount or as a percentage of what that individual therapist brings in. Between their compensation for actual clinical work and their 1/3 of the profits, they'd get their total compensation. You might do something similar: How much would any other firm have to pay any other comparable individual to do the administrative work you do? Is the office manager of a local medical practice an analogous skill set and accomplishment? Perhaps between that admin amount and your 1/3 of the profits, you'd have a fair market compensation. There are myriad similar ways to divide up the fruits of your combined labors. My experience is that too many folks have too high an assessment of their own value, and disagreements are easily encountered. A good consultant visit may be something like a visit to a good clinician: They may ask probing questions, look beyond your outer appearance, and they may poke around a bit. They may recommend something that you suspect, but haven't been handling. Your consultant may ask you what you were looking for as your own contribution. Were you anticipating getting paid as much for administrative work as the clinicians get paid for theirs? Were you considering a simple 1/3-1/3-1/3 split of the receipts and a one-third share of the expenses? you do not need to answer me, but you should each sit down with a sheet of paper and articulate your expectations. Entering into a new enterprise can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, so I wish your group well, and encourage you to approach it in a rational, rather than emotional manner. Dick Hillyer, PT, MBA, MSM Cape Coral, FL managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 One way is to agree upon a salary for each therapist. Include compensation for the one doing the " managing and paperwork " calculate expenses (including benefits) monthly and do profit and loss based on actual income (not billed). Remainder or " profit " should be divided based on % per therapist. Keep in mind growth of company and need for capital expenses and building upkeep Ron Barbato P.T. Corporate Director , Rehabilitation Ephraim McDowell Health Voice (859 )239-1515 Fax (859 )936-7249 rbarbato@... " PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it and be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you. " managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 You may want to consider who put in how much equity and base pay on %'s. What is your corporate structure and who owns what % of stock? As long as everyone agrees prior to starting you should be ok. I would have all this written as a formal contract with some sort of commitment from each member and clauses written for buy-outs and any other conceivable possibilities. Zerr, PT Summit PT > > > Date: 2005/01/17 Mon AM 10:29:49 EST > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager > > Subject: RE: managing vs. treating > > > > One way is to agree upon a salary for each therapist. Include compensation > for the one doing the " managing and paperwork " calculate expenses > (including benefits) monthly and do profit and loss based on actual income > (not billed). Remainder or " profit " should be divided based on % per > therapist. Keep in mind growth of company and need for capital expenses and > building upkeep > Ron Barbato P.T. > Corporate Director , Rehabilitation > Ephraim McDowell Health > Voice (859 )239-1515 > Fax (859 )936-7249 > rbarbato@... > > " PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information that > is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it and > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY > PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately > advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments > without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you. " > > > > managing vs. treating > > > > > Hello, > I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided > to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be > " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How > should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours > vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to > take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists > to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your > feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. > Malika Rasheed PT > Columbia Physical Therapy > Columbia, MD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 You may want to consider who put in how much equity and base pay on %'s. What is your corporate structure and who owns what % of stock? As long as everyone agrees prior to starting you should be ok. I would have all this written as a formal contract with some sort of commitment from each member and clauses written for buy-outs and any other conceivable possibilities. Zerr, PT Summit PT > > > Date: 2005/01/17 Mon AM 10:29:49 EST > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager > > Subject: RE: managing vs. treating > > > > One way is to agree upon a salary for each therapist. Include compensation > for the one doing the " managing and paperwork " calculate expenses > (including benefits) monthly and do profit and loss based on actual income > (not billed). Remainder or " profit " should be divided based on % per > therapist. Keep in mind growth of company and need for capital expenses and > building upkeep > Ron Barbato P.T. > Corporate Director , Rehabilitation > Ephraim McDowell Health > Voice (859 )239-1515 > Fax (859 )936-7249 > rbarbato@... > > " PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information that > is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it and > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY > PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately > advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments > without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you. " > > > > managing vs. treating > > > > > Hello, > I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided > to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be > " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How > should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours > vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to > take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists > to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your > feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. > Malika Rasheed PT > Columbia Physical Therapy > Columbia, MD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2005 Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 You may want to consider who put in how much equity and base pay on %'s. What is your corporate structure and who owns what % of stock? As long as everyone agrees prior to starting you should be ok. I would have all this written as a formal contract with some sort of commitment from each member and clauses written for buy-outs and any other conceivable possibilities. Zerr, PT Summit PT > > > Date: 2005/01/17 Mon AM 10:29:49 EST > To: " 'PTManager ' " <PTManager > > Subject: RE: managing vs. treating > > > > One way is to agree upon a salary for each therapist. Include compensation > for the one doing the " managing and paperwork " calculate expenses > (including benefits) monthly and do profit and loss based on actual income > (not billed). Remainder or " profit " should be divided based on % per > therapist. Keep in mind growth of company and need for capital expenses and > building upkeep > Ron Barbato P.T. > Corporate Director , Rehabilitation > Ephraim McDowell Health > Voice (859 )239-1515 > Fax (859 )936-7249 > rbarbato@... > > " PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL: This transmission may contain information that > is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable > law. If you are not the intended recipient, then please do not read it and > be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the > information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY > PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately > advise me, by reply e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments > without retaining a copy in any form. Thank you. " > > > > managing vs. treating > > > > > Hello, > I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided > to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be > " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How > should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours > vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to > take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists > to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your > feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. > Malika Rasheed PT > Columbia Physical Therapy > Columbia, MD > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Do you have any recommendations for good practice consultants? Goodwin Message: 12 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:08:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Managing vs. treating Malika - You've raised a significant question: That of how to determine how much partners get paid. It can be fraught with misunderstanding and discord, if not carefully handled. If you're starting a practice, I assume that you've arranged the services of an attorney, an accountant, and a practice consultant. By the way, every physical therapist is a manager of scarce resources. (LAMP - October, 11-12, 1998) Owners' compensation is often done according to the amount of ownership of each party. If you indeed own this entity in thirds, then amounts retained by the firm after bills are paid might be divided up according to that fraction: One third to each. Since two individuals are also providing clinical services, they could each get paid a flat monthly stipend, or according to the value they contribute. This could be an amount comparable to what the firm would pay any other competent therapist it hired, whether as a flat amount or as a percentage of what that individual therapist brings in. Between their compensation for actual clinical work and their 1/3 of the profits, they'd get their total compensation. You might do something similar: How much would any other firm have to pay any other comparable individual to do the administrative work you do? Is the office manager of a local medical practice an analogous skill set and accomplishment? Perhaps between that admin amount and your 1/3 of the profits, you'd have a fair market compensation. There are myriad similar ways to divide up the fruits of your combined labors. My experience is that too many folks have too high an assessment of their own value, and disagreements are easily encountered. A good consultant visit may be something like a visit to a good clinician: They may ask probing questions, look beyond your outer appearance, and they may poke around a bit. They may recommend something that you suspect, but haven't been handling. Your consultant may ask you what you were looking for as your own contribution. Were you anticipating getting paid as much for administrative work as the clinicians get paid for theirs? Were you considering a simple 1/3-1/3-1/3 split of the receipts and a one-third share of the expenses? you do not need to answer me, but you should each sit down with a sheet of paper and articulate your expectations. Entering into a new enterprise can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, so I wish your group well, and encourage you to approach it in a rational, rather than emotional manner. Dick Hillyer, PT, MBA, MSM Cape Coral, FL managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Do you have any recommendations for good practice consultants? Goodwin Message: 12 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:08:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Managing vs. treating Malika - You've raised a significant question: That of how to determine how much partners get paid. It can be fraught with misunderstanding and discord, if not carefully handled. If you're starting a practice, I assume that you've arranged the services of an attorney, an accountant, and a practice consultant. By the way, every physical therapist is a manager of scarce resources. (LAMP - October, 11-12, 1998) Owners' compensation is often done according to the amount of ownership of each party. If you indeed own this entity in thirds, then amounts retained by the firm after bills are paid might be divided up according to that fraction: One third to each. Since two individuals are also providing clinical services, they could each get paid a flat monthly stipend, or according to the value they contribute. This could be an amount comparable to what the firm would pay any other competent therapist it hired, whether as a flat amount or as a percentage of what that individual therapist brings in. Between their compensation for actual clinical work and their 1/3 of the profits, they'd get their total compensation. You might do something similar: How much would any other firm have to pay any other comparable individual to do the administrative work you do? Is the office manager of a local medical practice an analogous skill set and accomplishment? Perhaps between that admin amount and your 1/3 of the profits, you'd have a fair market compensation. There are myriad similar ways to divide up the fruits of your combined labors. My experience is that too many folks have too high an assessment of their own value, and disagreements are easily encountered. A good consultant visit may be something like a visit to a good clinician: They may ask probing questions, look beyond your outer appearance, and they may poke around a bit. They may recommend something that you suspect, but haven't been handling. Your consultant may ask you what you were looking for as your own contribution. Were you anticipating getting paid as much for administrative work as the clinicians get paid for theirs? Were you considering a simple 1/3-1/3-1/3 split of the receipts and a one-third share of the expenses? you do not need to answer me, but you should each sit down with a sheet of paper and articulate your expectations. Entering into a new enterprise can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, so I wish your group well, and encourage you to approach it in a rational, rather than emotional manner. Dick Hillyer, PT, MBA, MSM Cape Coral, FL managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2005 Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 Do you have any recommendations for good practice consultants? Goodwin Message: 12 Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:08:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Managing vs. treating Malika - You've raised a significant question: That of how to determine how much partners get paid. It can be fraught with misunderstanding and discord, if not carefully handled. If you're starting a practice, I assume that you've arranged the services of an attorney, an accountant, and a practice consultant. By the way, every physical therapist is a manager of scarce resources. (LAMP - October, 11-12, 1998) Owners' compensation is often done according to the amount of ownership of each party. If you indeed own this entity in thirds, then amounts retained by the firm after bills are paid might be divided up according to that fraction: One third to each. Since two individuals are also providing clinical services, they could each get paid a flat monthly stipend, or according to the value they contribute. This could be an amount comparable to what the firm would pay any other competent therapist it hired, whether as a flat amount or as a percentage of what that individual therapist brings in. Between their compensation for actual clinical work and their 1/3 of the profits, they'd get their total compensation. You might do something similar: How much would any other firm have to pay any other comparable individual to do the administrative work you do? Is the office manager of a local medical practice an analogous skill set and accomplishment? Perhaps between that admin amount and your 1/3 of the profits, you'd have a fair market compensation. There are myriad similar ways to divide up the fruits of your combined labors. My experience is that too many folks have too high an assessment of their own value, and disagreements are easily encountered. A good consultant visit may be something like a visit to a good clinician: They may ask probing questions, look beyond your outer appearance, and they may poke around a bit. They may recommend something that you suspect, but haven't been handling. Your consultant may ask you what you were looking for as your own contribution. Were you anticipating getting paid as much for administrative work as the clinicians get paid for theirs? Were you considering a simple 1/3-1/3-1/3 split of the receipts and a one-third share of the expenses? you do not need to answer me, but you should each sit down with a sheet of paper and articulate your expectations. Entering into a new enterprise can be a wonderful, exhilarating experience, so I wish your group well, and encourage you to approach it in a rational, rather than emotional manner. Dick Hillyer, PT, MBA, MSM Cape Coral, FL managing vs. treating Hello, I am one of three P.T.'s opening up an outpatient clinic in MD. We decided to split ownership equally. Since I already have a business, I will be " managing " the clinic and the other two therapists will be treating. How should we work out " take home pay? " How should we account for treating hours vs. managerial hours? As the non-treating therapist, should I be the one to take the smaller cut? Sometimes it's difficult for a " treating " therapists to realize how much goes into managing a company. I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you Jim Hall for your suggestion. Malika Rasheed PT Columbia Physical Therapy Columbia, MD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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