Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 If the outpatient cap comes back in Jan > 2006, where do you think your practice will be in 2006 without considering > the business side of physical therapy and rehab practice? > > RV, PT, MS > Florida RV: I guess I ought to send my congrats to you, and you are the first one to mention this possibility. I was hoping that I might have been able to mention this interesting consideration, one that might cost $$$ in terms of lobbying. = Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 I see this as an ethical-legal thing. I would suggest that it is EASIER for a PT owned practice to cheat the rules and impose unethical behaviors on the business because they are insiders to the process. As a business owner, I am blessed to provide a place where PT's can worry about patient care and not the concerns of running the business, which has become so consuming that it's all I do all day, from marketing, to expansion, to coordination of clinics and departments. The staff we have seems so happy to work in a clinic that is so low stress for them in terms of many of the PT owned places that pushed productivity harder and forced modalities on everyone, etc... To say that I am hurting the cause of PT's to become an autonomous, direct access profession is ridiculous to me. I am all for giving the PT's the credit and respect they deserve. I don't look at it as emotionally as you guys, but I for sure see the logic and merits of it. We can all be advocates for the profession regardless of our backgrounds. Judge me on my ethics and not my credentials-or lack thereof. There will always be the Scrushys out there, he just happened to be a guy who grew his company into a monster and then got got caught cheating the system. I'll bet you for every non-PT owned company that is indicted for unethical behavior there are 10 that are PT owned that get indicted. So what. It is irrelevant really. The bottom line is that people from both sides can be unethical or ethical, follow the rules or break them. As well, we can all work together to advance the profession and make it more well respected, but to fight the battle against people who aren't PT's and to say they shouldn't own clinics...sounds like you are taking your eyes off of the real agenda to fight a battle on the front of your own egos to me. I may be way off base, but I'm feeling attacked here from a guy who knows nothing about me and is basing everything about my company on the initials after my name?? Sac Spine & PT Re: where are we going? > > > > > In defense of Doug, he is speaking from a " Wall Street Perspective " which > is make money and make a lot of it. I guess my point is he does not have the > ownership of the profession as we do, therefore it is/may be hard for him to > understand our passion and desire to be seen as a professional and autonomous > practitioner and fight these battles instead of continuously giving in to > gain a piece of the pie ($$$). Doug you say " It's that or they do it the > wrong way without you " , I don't see it that way, I see it as they are doing our > profession and the public an injustice and if we continue to stand for it, it > will go exactly the direction that you are heading things. I personally do > not like that direction and this is why I choose to give $$ to the APTA and > the PAC to continue to gain the professional autonomy and respect that we > deserve. > > I personally feel, as do many of the others on this list serve, that the > profession belongs to us as PT's and we have to continue to fight and move > forward or we will most certainly head in the direction that you are referring to > and as you do business. I harbor no ill feelings toward you or any other > layperson who decides to open rehab agencies as a non-PT owner, but I will > continue to fight to put ownership in the hands of PT's across the country. Might > be a pipe dream or an idealist point of view, but it is my dream that > someday it will happen. > > Respectfully, > > Ric Baird, MS, PT, ATC > Interactive Physical Therapy & Fitness > 4745 NW Hunters Ridge Circle > Suite D > Topeka, KS 66618 > (W) > (F) > Ric@...<mailto:Ric@...<mailto:Ric@...<\ mailto:Ric@...>> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , I have to agree with you in saying that non-therapist ownership of clinics is hindering out goal toward becoming autonomous practitioners. Non- therapist ownership of PT practices makes us more vunerable to suffer the nuances of the business world. For example, we all remember the Healthsouth fiasco a couple of years ago. They are a corporation ran by a former CEO who is not a therapist, and a board of shareholders who also are not therapist. The danger we run into when non therapists run PT practices is that patients go from being people to widgets. Productivity is a common benchmarking in the business world and will serve to become the standard of our profession if the trend of non- therapist owners prevails. Mike Connors, MPT Greater Therapy Centers Carrollton, TX > > , > > You are missing the point. I am not talking about ethics. I am talking > about PTs in autonomous practice and how non-PT owners are hurting the move > toward that. Not attacking you...attacking the concept. Did not mean to > offend. As a non-PT how could you or would you understand? I am glad your > staff is happy and I am glad you do not pressure them into performance goals > that hurt morale, ethics, and customer service. You are an exception to the > rule. My point is that non-PT ownership of a future autonomous profession > will set it back. > > > Re: where are we going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In defense of Doug, he is speaking from a " Wall Street Perspective " > > which > > > is make money and make a lot of it. I guess my point is he does not > > have the > > > ownership of the profession as we do, therefore it is/may be hard > for > > him to > > > understand our passion and desire to be seen as a professional and > > autonomous > > > practitioner and fight these battles instead of continuously giving > in > > to > > > gain a piece of the pie ($$$). Doug you say " It's that or they do > it > > the > > > wrong way without you " , I don't see it that way, I see it as they > are > > doing our > > > profession and the public an injustice and if we continue to stand > for > > it, it > > > will go exactly the direction that you are heading things. I > > personally do > > > not like that direction and this is why I choose to give $$ to the > APTA > > and > > > the PAC to continue to gain the professional autonomy and respect > that > > we > > > deserve. > > > > > > I personally feel, as do many of the others on this list serve, that > the > > > profession belongs to us as PT's and we have to continue to fight > and > > move > > > forward or we will most certainly head in the direction that you are > > referring to > > > and as you do business. I harbor no ill feelings toward you or any > > other > > > layperson who decides to open rehab agencies as a non-PT owner, but > I > > will > > > continue to fight to put ownership in the hands of PT's across the > > country. Might > > > be a pipe dream or an idealist point of view, but it is my dream > that > > > someday it will happen. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Ric Baird, MS, PT, ATC > > > Interactive Physical Therapy & Fitness > > > 4745 NW Hunters Ridge Circle > > > Suite D > > > Topeka, KS 66618 > > > (W) > > > (F) > > > > Ric@I...<mailto:Ric@I...<mailto:Ric@I... > com<mailto:Ric@I...>> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , I have to agree with you in saying that non-therapist ownership of clinics is hindering out goal toward becoming autonomous practitioners. Non- therapist ownership of PT practices makes us more vunerable to suffer the nuances of the business world. For example, we all remember the Healthsouth fiasco a couple of years ago. They are a corporation ran by a former CEO who is not a therapist, and a board of shareholders who also are not therapist. The danger we run into when non therapists run PT practices is that patients go from being people to widgets. Productivity is a common benchmarking in the business world and will serve to become the standard of our profession if the trend of non- therapist owners prevails. Mike Connors, MPT Greater Therapy Centers Carrollton, TX > > , > > You are missing the point. I am not talking about ethics. I am talking > about PTs in autonomous practice and how non-PT owners are hurting the move > toward that. Not attacking you...attacking the concept. Did not mean to > offend. As a non-PT how could you or would you understand? I am glad your > staff is happy and I am glad you do not pressure them into performance goals > that hurt morale, ethics, and customer service. You are an exception to the > rule. My point is that non-PT ownership of a future autonomous profession > will set it back. > > > Re: where are we going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In defense of Doug, he is speaking from a " Wall Street Perspective " > > which > > > is make money and make a lot of it. I guess my point is he does not > > have the > > > ownership of the profession as we do, therefore it is/may be hard > for > > him to > > > understand our passion and desire to be seen as a professional and > > autonomous > > > practitioner and fight these battles instead of continuously giving > in > > to > > > gain a piece of the pie ($$$). Doug you say " It's that or they do > it > > the > > > wrong way without you " , I don't see it that way, I see it as they > are > > doing our > > > profession and the public an injustice and if we continue to stand > for > > it, it > > > will go exactly the direction that you are heading things. I > > personally do > > > not like that direction and this is why I choose to give $$ to the > APTA > > and > > > the PAC to continue to gain the professional autonomy and respect > that > > we > > > deserve. > > > > > > I personally feel, as do many of the others on this list serve, that > the > > > profession belongs to us as PT's and we have to continue to fight > and > > move > > > forward or we will most certainly head in the direction that you are > > referring to > > > and as you do business. I harbor no ill feelings toward you or any > > other > > > layperson who decides to open rehab agencies as a non-PT owner, but > I > > will > > > continue to fight to put ownership in the hands of PT's across the > > country. Might > > > be a pipe dream or an idealist point of view, but it is my dream > that > > > someday it will happen. > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > Ric Baird, MS, PT, ATC > > > Interactive Physical Therapy & Fitness > > > 4745 NW Hunters Ridge Circle > > > Suite D > > > Topeka, KS 66618 > > > (W) > > > (F) > > > > Ric@I...<mailto:Ric@I...<mailto:Ric@I... > com<mailto:Ric@I...>> > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 , I'm not attacking non PT owned clinics. I apologize if it came across as such. I don't think I'm " morally superior " for having a PT education. I'm just recalling a corporation that prides themself on unethical behavior that just happens to be run by non PT's. Next time you want to cast the ethical or moral stone, watch where you cast it. It's not about moral superiority but in what is best for the patient. Non-PT's and PT's can exist on the same level and neither thinks they are morally superior. The only difference is that PT's, OT's, and ST's keep the patient in mind first and business second, whereas non-therapists keep in mind business first and the individual second. Personally, I would be curious as to what your background (and other PT's involved in rehab ownership) is in rehabilitation. Professionally, Mike Connors, MPT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Dave: You brought up some excellent concepts, and I was quite intrigued to read your comments. Thanks! The problem that is faced with trying to clamp down on referral-for- profit is simple. It is inconceivable that a law can be written that would not leave enough loophole(s) for everyone to find a way around it. Our governmental leaders do not have the ability to grasp the understanding of the issue, as, relatively speaking, it is a tiny speck of dust on the health care map. What % of total medicare dollars are spent on physical therapy services? Now it is more difficult for non-PTs to provide those services (we applaud CMS for hearing the dilligence from our professional association and members who commented). That was a rather non- confrontational issue, as most of the MD groups did not vociferously oppose that one. The MD groups vociferously, passionately, and aggressively will fight to keep PT in house and legal. Which group(s) do PT's have to fight this battle? The APTA has its private practice section... and the associatin has done a lot at the state level also. Now, the APTA is not able to focus like a laser on this one issues - heck, our association is fighting a few initiatives. Reimbursement issues, direct access, just to name a few. That is high on the issue list, but not alone. What I am saying is that we need more people to take their energy from this list serve and apply it somewhere within the professional association. Maybe YOU might be willing to talk to a legislator - or write some letters. Maybe this is the calling you have been waiting for. Get involved. Peace Happy New Year - > > From my perspective, the only relevant issue on this question is whether a > rehab businesses refers for profit. > > Dave Milano, Director of Rehab Services > Laurel Health System > 32-36 Central Ave. > Wellsboro, PA 16901 > > dmilano@l... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Dave: You brought up some excellent concepts, and I was quite intrigued to read your comments. Thanks! The problem that is faced with trying to clamp down on referral-for- profit is simple. It is inconceivable that a law can be written that would not leave enough loophole(s) for everyone to find a way around it. Our governmental leaders do not have the ability to grasp the understanding of the issue, as, relatively speaking, it is a tiny speck of dust on the health care map. What % of total medicare dollars are spent on physical therapy services? Now it is more difficult for non-PTs to provide those services (we applaud CMS for hearing the dilligence from our professional association and members who commented). That was a rather non- confrontational issue, as most of the MD groups did not vociferously oppose that one. The MD groups vociferously, passionately, and aggressively will fight to keep PT in house and legal. Which group(s) do PT's have to fight this battle? The APTA has its private practice section... and the associatin has done a lot at the state level also. Now, the APTA is not able to focus like a laser on this one issues - heck, our association is fighting a few initiatives. Reimbursement issues, direct access, just to name a few. That is high on the issue list, but not alone. What I am saying is that we need more people to take their energy from this list serve and apply it somewhere within the professional association. Maybe YOU might be willing to talk to a legislator - or write some letters. Maybe this is the calling you have been waiting for. Get involved. Peace Happy New Year - > > From my perspective, the only relevant issue on this question is whether a > rehab businesses refers for profit. > > Dave Milano, Director of Rehab Services > Laurel Health System > 32-36 Central Ave. > Wellsboro, PA 16901 > > dmilano@l... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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