Roxanne

[Guest guest]

Hi and welcome! Thanks for your story - that gives me great hope

because I am so worried about how things will progress (a crystal

ball would come in handy right now

Tara

BU

15w6d

[Guest guest]

Hi, Art...I'm not Phyllis but I want to respond to this.. diabetics do NOT

need to eat carbs. Carbs actually will raise BGs of diabetics. Cut down on

your carbs and your BGs will go down. I promise you. I'm not even going to

speak to the sulf issue right now..I'm sure someone else will.

Unfortunately, many medical professionals still believe that the classic

" food pyramid " with carbs at the bottom of are necessary for diabetic health.

I'm sorry to tell you that the food pyramid is strictly a political animal.

I strongly suggest you read " Books for Newbies " and our " success stories " ,

links at the bottom of this page. Bernstein and Becker have written two

outstanding books. Dr. Bernstein is an diabetic MD and he explains why how

to control your BGs by cutting carbs and the medical reasons this works.

Gretchen Becker is a type 2 diabetic and her book covers " Diabetes, the First

year " in an easily understandable way. Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control, her book can help you.

Vicki

In a message dated 03/02/2002 5:02:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

> carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide

[Guest guest]

Hi, Art...I'm not Phyllis but I want to respond to this.. diabetics do NOT

need to eat carbs. Carbs actually will raise BGs of diabetics. Cut down on

your carbs and your BGs will go down. I promise you. I'm not even going to

speak to the sulf issue right now..I'm sure someone else will.

Unfortunately, many medical professionals still believe that the classic

" food pyramid " with carbs at the bottom of are necessary for diabetic health.

I'm sorry to tell you that the food pyramid is strictly a political animal.

I strongly suggest you read " Books for Newbies " and our " success stories " ,

links at the bottom of this page. Bernstein and Becker have written two

outstanding books. Dr. Bernstein is an diabetic MD and he explains why how

to control your BGs by cutting carbs and the medical reasons this works.

Gretchen Becker is a type 2 diabetic and her book covers " Diabetes, the First

year " in an easily understandable way. Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control, her book can help you.

Vicki

In a message dated 03/02/2002 5:02:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

> carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide

[Guest guest]

Hi, Art...I'm not Phyllis but I want to respond to this.. diabetics do NOT

need to eat carbs. Carbs actually will raise BGs of diabetics. Cut down on

your carbs and your BGs will go down. I promise you. I'm not even going to

speak to the sulf issue right now..I'm sure someone else will.

Unfortunately, many medical professionals still believe that the classic

" food pyramid " with carbs at the bottom of are necessary for diabetic health.

I'm sorry to tell you that the food pyramid is strictly a political animal.

I strongly suggest you read " Books for Newbies " and our " success stories " ,

links at the bottom of this page. Bernstein and Becker have written two

outstanding books. Dr. Bernstein is an diabetic MD and he explains why how

to control your BGs by cutting carbs and the medical reasons this works.

Gretchen Becker is a type 2 diabetic and her book covers " Diabetes, the First

year " in an easily understandable way. Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control, her book can help you.

Vicki

In a message dated 03/02/2002 5:02:59 PM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

> carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 4:02:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

Well since I got off the meds and

the carbs and my blood sugar is averaging 120 instead of the 400

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Phyllis,

Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide. Unless I misunderstand

what you are saying your observations, am I doing something wrong? My

sugars were very high when I was diagnosed a number of years ago and I have

not been good about my

> diet. In the last month I have added regular

> exercise and been much more careful with my diet. The levels have come

> down

> considerably, but are still not much below 200 except in the late afternoon

> when they fall quickly to 60-80. In the morning and early afternoon they

> stay at 200 +. when I first started to work out regularly on Jan 31, they

> were over 300.

> Thanks,

> Art

Art,

First, let me welcome you to the group. You are starting out well providing

information and questions.

First, you need to know that your numbers in the 200 range are way too high,

and put you at risk for the onset of any number of horrendous complications.

To minimize complication risk, the goal should be the range of a normal

non-diabetic (70-110mg/dl), and HbA1c of less than 6.0. I know these may

sound much lower than you were told by your medical team, but they really are

necessary to minimize the possibility of complications.

Your experience eating a lot of carbs and then medicating to control blood

glucose (bg) is a typical treatment plan given by many Drs. I think you would

have to agree it isn't working for you. Your numbers are too high most of the

time, and you are borderline hypoglycemic in the late afternoon. Are these

hypo episodes after you have taken the Glyburide? Glyburide is a sulfonylurea

class of drug that drives the pancreas to produce insulin to lower the bg's,

and people on that type of med do have to be cautious because of the risk of

hypoglycemia which is very dangerous in the short term.

Glucophage operates primarily by slowing the glucose release from the liver

and also somewhat reduces insulin resistance. Glucophage on its own is much

less likely to cause hypo's.

The short story is this. You are eating carbs which drive your bg's up, and

then take meds to drive them back down. Think about it. Does this make sense?

Would it not make more sense to not drive them up in the first place?

You were told that you " have to eat carbs " . I would ask them " why " ? There are

many here on this list that are eating very low-carb diets and doing just

fine with minimal meds (or none). There are definite body requirements for

protein and fat. The body cannot live without them. There is, to my

knowledge, no requirement to eat carbs. Yes, there are vitamins in carbs that

you do need, but that can be covered with a good multi-vitamin.

Your body will operate just fine on protein and fat and minimal carbs. For

energy, fat will provide it instead of carbs.

I know this is a lot to absorb, and directly contradictory to what you have

been told, but you need to become educated about the disease, and you will

see that at least part of what you learned so far is perhaps not the best

path to follow.

Education is your most important tool. To this end, I strongly recommend that

you read " Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " by Dr Bernstein and " Type

2 Diabetes-The First Year " by Gretchen Becker.

If you read and understand what is in both of these books, you will have an

in depth knowledge of diabetes, its potential complication, and be able to

select a treatment plan that you can work with and really get control which

you don't have now.

I was on Glyburide after my diagnosis and on the same roller-coaster that you

are on. Within a week of starting with Dr B's diet plan I was able to totally

quit the meds and have been using his plan as my guide now for 4 years. My

last HbA1c in December was 6.1. Not as low as I would like, but still at the

top of the normal non-diabetic range. This is of course just me. Everyone is

different.

Well, I could go on and on, but will try and stop now.

I am sure I have given you more to digest than I should have in one bite.

(low-carb bite)

, T2

Oregon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 4:02:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

Well since I got off the meds and

the carbs and my blood sugar is averaging 120 instead of the 400

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Phyllis,

Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide. Unless I misunderstand

what you are saying your observations, am I doing something wrong? My

sugars were very high when I was diagnosed a number of years ago and I have

not been good about my

> diet. In the last month I have added regular

> exercise and been much more careful with my diet. The levels have come

> down

> considerably, but are still not much below 200 except in the late afternoon

> when they fall quickly to 60-80. In the morning and early afternoon they

> stay at 200 +. when I first started to work out regularly on Jan 31, they

> were over 300.

> Thanks,

> Art

Art,

First, let me welcome you to the group. You are starting out well providing

information and questions.

First, you need to know that your numbers in the 200 range are way too high,

and put you at risk for the onset of any number of horrendous complications.

To minimize complication risk, the goal should be the range of a normal

non-diabetic (70-110mg/dl), and HbA1c of less than 6.0. I know these may

sound much lower than you were told by your medical team, but they really are

necessary to minimize the possibility of complications.

Your experience eating a lot of carbs and then medicating to control blood

glucose (bg) is a typical treatment plan given by many Drs. I think you would

have to agree it isn't working for you. Your numbers are too high most of the

time, and you are borderline hypoglycemic in the late afternoon. Are these

hypo episodes after you have taken the Glyburide? Glyburide is a sulfonylurea

class of drug that drives the pancreas to produce insulin to lower the bg's,

and people on that type of med do have to be cautious because of the risk of

hypoglycemia which is very dangerous in the short term.

Glucophage operates primarily by slowing the glucose release from the liver

and also somewhat reduces insulin resistance. Glucophage on its own is much

less likely to cause hypo's.

The short story is this. You are eating carbs which drive your bg's up, and

then take meds to drive them back down. Think about it. Does this make sense?

Would it not make more sense to not drive them up in the first place?

You were told that you " have to eat carbs " . I would ask them " why " ? There are

many here on this list that are eating very low-carb diets and doing just

fine with minimal meds (or none). There are definite body requirements for

protein and fat. The body cannot live without them. There is, to my

knowledge, no requirement to eat carbs. Yes, there are vitamins in carbs that

you do need, but that can be covered with a good multi-vitamin.

Your body will operate just fine on protein and fat and minimal carbs. For

energy, fat will provide it instead of carbs.

I know this is a lot to absorb, and directly contradictory to what you have

been told, but you need to become educated about the disease, and you will

see that at least part of what you learned so far is perhaps not the best

path to follow.

Education is your most important tool. To this end, I strongly recommend that

you read " Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " by Dr Bernstein and " Type

2 Diabetes-The First Year " by Gretchen Becker.

If you read and understand what is in both of these books, you will have an

in depth knowledge of diabetes, its potential complication, and be able to

select a treatment plan that you can work with and really get control which

you don't have now.

I was on Glyburide after my diagnosis and on the same roller-coaster that you

are on. Within a week of starting with Dr B's diet plan I was able to totally

quit the meds and have been using his plan as my guide now for 4 years. My

last HbA1c in December was 6.1. Not as low as I would like, but still at the

top of the normal non-diabetic range. This is of course just me. Everyone is

different.

Well, I could go on and on, but will try and stop now.

I am sure I have given you more to digest than I should have in one bite.

(low-carb bite)

, T2

Oregon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 4:02:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

Well since I got off the meds and

the carbs and my blood sugar is averaging 120 instead of the 400

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Phyllis,

Please explain the above. I've been told for years that I need to eat

carbohydrates and am on Glucophage and Glyburide. Unless I misunderstand

what you are saying your observations, am I doing something wrong? My

sugars were very high when I was diagnosed a number of years ago and I have

not been good about my

> diet. In the last month I have added regular

> exercise and been much more careful with my diet. The levels have come

> down

> considerably, but are still not much below 200 except in the late afternoon

> when they fall quickly to 60-80. In the morning and early afternoon they

> stay at 200 +. when I first started to work out regularly on Jan 31, they

> were over 300.

> Thanks,

> Art

Art,

First, let me welcome you to the group. You are starting out well providing

information and questions.

First, you need to know that your numbers in the 200 range are way too high,

and put you at risk for the onset of any number of horrendous complications.

To minimize complication risk, the goal should be the range of a normal

non-diabetic (70-110mg/dl), and HbA1c of less than 6.0. I know these may

sound much lower than you were told by your medical team, but they really are

necessary to minimize the possibility of complications.

Your experience eating a lot of carbs and then medicating to control blood

glucose (bg) is a typical treatment plan given by many Drs. I think you would

have to agree it isn't working for you. Your numbers are too high most of the

time, and you are borderline hypoglycemic in the late afternoon. Are these

hypo episodes after you have taken the Glyburide? Glyburide is a sulfonylurea

class of drug that drives the pancreas to produce insulin to lower the bg's,

and people on that type of med do have to be cautious because of the risk of

hypoglycemia which is very dangerous in the short term.

Glucophage operates primarily by slowing the glucose release from the liver

and also somewhat reduces insulin resistance. Glucophage on its own is much

less likely to cause hypo's.

The short story is this. You are eating carbs which drive your bg's up, and

then take meds to drive them back down. Think about it. Does this make sense?

Would it not make more sense to not drive them up in the first place?

You were told that you " have to eat carbs " . I would ask them " why " ? There are

many here on this list that are eating very low-carb diets and doing just

fine with minimal meds (or none). There are definite body requirements for

protein and fat. The body cannot live without them. There is, to my

knowledge, no requirement to eat carbs. Yes, there are vitamins in carbs that

you do need, but that can be covered with a good multi-vitamin.

Your body will operate just fine on protein and fat and minimal carbs. For

energy, fat will provide it instead of carbs.

I know this is a lot to absorb, and directly contradictory to what you have

been told, but you need to become educated about the disease, and you will

see that at least part of what you learned so far is perhaps not the best

path to follow.

Education is your most important tool. To this end, I strongly recommend that

you read " Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution " by Dr Bernstein and " Type

2 Diabetes-The First Year " by Gretchen Becker.

If you read and understand what is in both of these books, you will have an

in depth knowledge of diabetes, its potential complication, and be able to

select a treatment plan that you can work with and really get control which

you don't have now.

I was on Glyburide after my diagnosis and on the same roller-coaster that you

are on. Within a week of starting with Dr B's diet plan I was able to totally

quit the meds and have been using his plan as my guide now for 4 years. My

last HbA1c in December was 6.1. Not as low as I would like, but still at the

top of the normal non-diabetic range. This is of course just me. Everyone is

different.

Well, I could go on and on, but will try and stop now.

I am sure I have given you more to digest than I should have in one bite.

(low-carb bite)

, T2

Oregon

[Guest guest]

Hello moseart@...,

In reference to your comment:

ð speak to the sulf issue

ð >>>>>>>>>>>. " sulf

ð issue " ?????

i addressed it a bit, when explaining what glypuride (sp) does... its a

sulfonamide.. it stresses the pancreas.... wears out the islets of

langerhands in 3-6 yrs most people on it, need to change to insulin.

[Guest guest]

Hello moseart@...,

In reference to your comment:

ð speak to the sulf issue

ð >>>>>>>>>>>. " sulf

ð issue " ?????

i addressed it a bit, when explaining what glypuride (sp) does... its a

sulfonamide.. it stresses the pancreas.... wears out the islets of

langerhands in 3-6 yrs most people on it, need to change to insulin.

[Guest guest]

Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was first told that I was borderline well over 25 years ago and ignored it

until about 6 years ago when I really got sick from it. Sugars,

triglycerides etc off the charts. . .around 800 as I recall. I paid

attention then. took off some weight, and went on medication. Once things

cooled down a bit I ignored it again until about three years ago, but have

been good and bad since then. Only recently have I really gotten serious

about dealing with it (about the last nine months or so, but I've still been

up and down). It finally is beginning to look like I am getting some

control over it again and I feel like my exercise/work outs have helped

motivate me and have also helped with the diabetes. I sure feel good after

a couple of hour workout:-)

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was first told that I was borderline well over 25 years ago and ignored it

until about 6 years ago when I really got sick from it. Sugars,

triglycerides etc off the charts. . .around 800 as I recall. I paid

attention then. took off some weight, and went on medication. Once things

cooled down a bit I ignored it again until about three years ago, but have

been good and bad since then. Only recently have I really gotten serious

about dealing with it (about the last nine months or so, but I've still been

up and down). It finally is beginning to look like I am getting some

control over it again and I feel like my exercise/work outs have helped

motivate me and have also helped with the diabetes. I sure feel good after

a couple of hour workout:-)

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

Even if you've been diabetic for more

than a year but haven't gained good control,

>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was first told that I was borderline well over 25 years ago and ignored it

until about 6 years ago when I really got sick from it. Sugars,

triglycerides etc off the charts. . .around 800 as I recall. I paid

attention then. took off some weight, and went on medication. Once things

cooled down a bit I ignored it again until about three years ago, but have

been good and bad since then. Only recently have I really gotten serious

about dealing with it (about the last nine months or so, but I've still been

up and down). It finally is beginning to look like I am getting some

control over it again and I feel like my exercise/work outs have helped

motivate me and have also helped with the diabetes. I sure feel good after

a couple of hour workout:-)

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 10:14:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

>

> speak to the sulf issue

> >>>>>>>>>>>.

> " sulf issue " ?????

> >>>>>>>>>>.

> Art

Art,

What is being addressed here is the " Sulfonylurea " class of drugs of which

Glyburide is one of several.

This may not be a complete list.

Clorpropamide (Diabinese)-First generation sulf, use with caution in

elderly; may cause hypo's

Glyburide (Diabeta, Micronase, Glynase, Pres Tab)-May cause hypo's, This is

what I was prescribed

Tolazamide (Tolinase) May cause hypo's

Glimepride (Amaryl)-May cause hypo's

Glipizide (Glucotrol, Glucotrol XL)-May cause hypo's

These drugs operate by forcing the pancreas (beta cells) to produce insulin.

That is how they lower bg levels. More insulin overcomes the insulin

resistant cells in type 2 diabetics. Type 2 insulin resistant diabetics using

these drugs will have higher than normal levels of insulin in their blood

which can cause problems such as high cholesterol, etc. All these drugs

present a fairly high risk for hypoglycemia.

The " sulf issue " that was probably referred to is that there is a school of

thought that " forcing " the pancreas to work harder producing more insulin

will " wear out " the insulin producing beta cells and result in total pancreas

failure and the necessity to inject insulin. Recent information has shown

that this is not the case if blood glucose levels are " normal non-diabetic "

levels (70-110mg/dl). If, however, high bg levels are present, then damage to

beta cells will take place.

Just another good reason to get the bg's down into the " normal " range and

keep them there.

, T2

Oregon

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/2/02 10:14:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

>

> speak to the sulf issue

> >>>>>>>>>>>.

> " sulf issue " ?????

> >>>>>>>>>>.

> Art

Art,

What is being addressed here is the " Sulfonylurea " class of drugs of which

Glyburide is one of several.

This may not be a complete list.

Clorpropamide (Diabinese)-First generation sulf, use with caution in

elderly; may cause hypo's

Glyburide (Diabeta, Micronase, Glynase, Pres Tab)-May cause hypo's, This is

what I was prescribed

Tolazamide (Tolinase) May cause hypo's

Glimepride (Amaryl)-May cause hypo's

Glipizide (Glucotrol, Glucotrol XL)-May cause hypo's

These drugs operate by forcing the pancreas (beta cells) to produce insulin.

That is how they lower bg levels. More insulin overcomes the insulin

resistant cells in type 2 diabetics. Type 2 insulin resistant diabetics using

these drugs will have higher than normal levels of insulin in their blood

which can cause problems such as high cholesterol, etc. All these drugs

present a fairly high risk for hypoglycemia.

The " sulf issue " that was probably referred to is that there is a school of

thought that " forcing " the pancreas to work harder producing more insulin

will " wear out " the insulin producing beta cells and result in total pancreas

failure and the necessity to inject insulin. Recent information has shown

that this is not the case if blood glucose levels are " normal non-diabetic "

levels (70-110mg/dl). If, however, high bg levels are present, then damage to

beta cells will take place.

Just another good reason to get the bg's down into the " normal " range and

keep them there.

, T2

Oregon

[Guest guest]

speak to the sulf issue

>>>>>>>>>>>.

" sulf issue " ?????

>>>>>>>>>>.

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

speak to the sulf issue

>>>>>>>>>>>.

" sulf issue " ?????

>>>>>>>>>>.

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

Hello moseart@...,

In reference to your comment:

ð " islets of langerhands "  

Art.... questions are fine

islets of langerhans or some spelling similar, are the areas in the pancreas

that make the insulin....

(forgive me, i'm a nurse and sometimes talk like one, and sometimes don't and

botch up spellings and math conversions, and all sorts of things like last

night, that the rest of the loop luckily caught and corrected this am)

[Guest guest]

Hello moseart@...,

In reference to your comment:

ð " islets of langerhands "  

Art.... questions are fine

islets of langerhans or some spelling similar, are the areas in the pancreas

that make the insulin....

(forgive me, i'm a nurse and sometimes talk like one, and sometimes don't and

botch up spellings and math conversions, and all sorts of things like last

night, that the rest of the loop luckily caught and corrected this am)

[Guest guest]

Hello moseart@...,

In reference to your comment:

ð " islets of langerhands "  

Art.... questions are fine

islets of langerhans or some spelling similar, are the areas in the pancreas

that make the insulin....

(forgive me, i'm a nurse and sometimes talk like one, and sometimes don't and

botch up spellings and math conversions, and all sorts of things like last

night, that the rest of the loop luckily caught and corrected this am)

[Guest guest]

Actually, it's " islets of Langerhans " (smile) I think that's where the beta

cells are produced. Vicki

In a message dated 03/03/2002 8:13:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> " islets of langerhands " ???????????

[Guest guest]

Actually, it's " islets of Langerhans " (smile) I think that's where the beta

cells are produced. Vicki

In a message dated 03/03/2002 8:13:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> " islets of langerhands " ???????????

[Guest guest]

Actually, it's " islets of Langerhans " (smile) I think that's where the beta

cells are produced. Vicki

In a message dated 03/03/2002 8:13:30 AM US Mountain Standard Time,

moseart@... writes:

> " islets of langerhands " ???????????

[Guest guest]

wears out the islets of

langerhands in 3-6 yrs most people on it, need to change to insulin.

>>>>>>>>>

You folks will have to bear with me for a bit while I learn this

terminology:-)

" islets of langerhands " ???????????

I think I've been on glyburide for 4-5 years and glucotrol XL prior to that.

I don't really recall.

Art

Art Mc

moseart@...

or

bulbo@...

[Guest guest]

Roxanne, you have made my family immensely happy with your wonderful words for

my first grandchild. Our hearts are filled with gladness, and this is something

I shall never ever forget, thanks, Loves Pushpa grandma to Aman