ANTIBIOTIC THERAPY

[Guest guest]

newell3480@... wrote:

>

> -I have followed this anibiotic approach for a while and I am hopeful

> as you are that this might be [part of the answer, the only problem I have is

> what happens when the body buils a resistance to the antibiotic? which is

> precisely why

> medics are advising against the overuse. I'm sure this has been taken into

> consideration and would like to hear more, I plan to ask my rheumy at my

> visit, thanks

>

From what I have read on the Road Back Foundation board and in the book

" The New Arthritis Breakthrough, " by Henry Scammell and Dr. Brown, the

antibiotics used for arthritis are very different from the kind used for

other infections. They don't carry the same risks for resistance. The

book explains why; has to do with being a different makeup entirely.

(One of these antibiotics is routinely used for acne, for instance.)

--Louise

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/26/01 4:32:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

jbgreenly@... writes:

> The drugs used in antibiotic therapy, minocycline and doxycycline,

> are

> members of the tetracycline family of drugs, which has been around

> for

> more than 40 years. There are quite a few bacteria now that are

> resistant to these drugs. My doctor (who is very conservative about

> antibiotic use in general) told me not to worry about taking doxy,

> that there are alternative drugs available for the diseases these

> drugs are normally used against, and they are used in huge amounts

> for

> acne in people, and in animal feed in modern industrial agriculture.

> So for even a million of us with PA to be taking them too wouldn't

> change the overall situation for development of resistant germs

> significantly. Our use is for a serious disease and is well-

> justified.

>

> Hi - I'm still interested in starting the AP, but now with the Anthrax

> scare here in NY, I'm a little worried about building up a resistance to

> the Minocycline which is one of the drugs used to treat the Anthrax

> bacteria. (Cipro is the name brand drug that is mentioned in the news as

> the best antibiotic for Anthrax but I was told that tetracycline works

> too).

> Half of me says it's good I didn't start on the AP yet so if g-d forbid I

> get Anthrax, then I don't have to worry about being resistant to the one

> drug that could save my life.....on the other hand, I wonder if I might be

> safer being on the AP so that the minocycline could protect me

> propholacticaly (sp?) against being infected with the Anthrax in the first

> place.

> What are your thoughts on this?

> Thanks for your time.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ed -- I'd be really interested in learning what you find out. This antibiotic

approach is sounding better and better to me. I really don't want to take

medication for the PA that can be harmful to my body overall. -- Jan O', Alaska

newell3480@... wrote:

> -I have followed this anibiotic approach for a while and I am hopeful

> as you are that this might be [part of the answer, the only problem I have is

> what happens when the body buils a resistance to the antibiotic? which is

> precisely why

> medics are advising against the overuse. I'm sure this has been taken into

> consideration and would like to hear more, I plan to ask my rheumy at my

> visit, thanks

>

> Southside Ed

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

the only problem I have is

> what happens when the body buils a resistance to the antibiotic?

Hi Ed- We hear a lot about antibiotic resistance nowadays, and it is

indeed a very big concern. But there seems to be a very common

misconception out there. There is no such thing as our bodies

building resistance to antibiotics. The problem is that the bacteria

the drugs attack can develop resistance. This definitely happens,

and

is a very big problem. Unnecessary use of antibiotics is a very bad

thing because the more widely bacteria are exposed to antibiotics,

the more the resistant ones will dominate the population, so when you

catch a germ, the antibiotics may not work.

The drugs used in antibiotic therapy, minocycline and doxycycline,

are

members of the tetracycline family of drugs, which has been around

for

more than 40 years. There are quite a few bacteria now that are

resistant to these drugs. My doctor (who is very conservative about

antibiotic use in general) told me not to worry about taking doxy,

that there are alternative drugs available for the diseases these

drugs are normally used against, and they are used in huge amounts

for

acne in people, and in animal feed in modern industrial agriculture.

So for even a million of us with PA to be taking them too wouldn't

change the overall situation for development of resistant germs

significantly. Our use is for a serious disease and is well-

justified.

Hope this helps --

[Guest guest]

> I am now waiting for my appointment (next week) with a Rheumy who

> works with this protocol. I'm quite hopeful as the disease is in a

> fairly quiet state right now.

> I was wondering if this therapy seems to be more effective in men

> than women. The positive results posted here are overwhelmingly

from

> men.

> Also, if any of you who have tried this have any specific

suggestions

> on either what to ask or what (that isn't in the literature) to

> expect or watch for, I'd really appreciate your input.

>

Hi ,

I have been or the antibiotic protocol for about 10 weeks with some

pretty promising results. I don't think that your sex has anything to

do with the success rate for this treatment. A few tips that I would

like to pass on include:

1. It is best to get the Brand Name instead of the generic

antibiotic. I take 100mg of Minocin, by Lederle on MWF.

2. Take the antibiotics 2 hours from food, vitamins and supplements,

and 1 hour from other medication.

3. When having a rough time drink plenty of water and soak in a bath

of 2 cups Epson salt and 2-16 oz bottles of Hydrongen Peroxide. (it

helps rid the body of toxins).

Wishing you the very best. Good luck with the antibiotic treatment. I

believe that you made a good decision.

Joe Godfrey

[Guest guest]

Thanks -This has really given me some hope,my benefit plan resists Enbrel,

but I'm not comfortable with anything that suppresses the immune system no

matter what the results. i am sure going to search for a doc in the Chicago

area that is familiar with this or is willing to investigate.Every month I

get it in a new area, it began in one foot then the other, then fingers,etc,

but I hear a lot of folks out there suffering worse than me that deserve

relief more than me,thanks again Ron.

Ed

[Guest guest]

Ed,

From what I've read, antibiotics in the tetracycline family do not

cause resistance to build up because it attacks the cell wall of the

bacteria rather than the nucleus as most other antibiotics do. As I

understand it, bacteria develop resistance by adaptations of their

cell wall that prevent the antibiotic from penetrating into the cell

nucleus. Since the type of bacteria targeted by tetracycline,

doxycycline, and minocycline in arthritis treatment do not have cell

walls, this adaptation cannot occur.

-- Ron

See " Side Effects " at:

http://ron.dotson.org/ap/protocol.htm

" It is of additional interest that mycoplasma, unlike bacteria, do

not possess a cell wall, only a thin covering membrane. Thus, long-

term exposure to antimycoplasma substances would not be expected to

create mycoplasma resistance which is usually dependent upon cell

wall enzymatic activity. In over five decades of use, no ill effect

from medication has been experienced, except the emergence of delayed

sensitivity as with all drugs in this field, but on a level that is

very easy to manage. "

>

> -I have followed this anibiotic approach for a while and

> I am hopeful as you are that this might be [part of the answer,

> the only problem I have is what happens when the body buils a

> resistance to the antibiotic? which is precisely why

> medics are advising against the overuse. I'm sure this has

> been taken into consideration and would like to hear more,

> I plan to ask my rheumy at my next visit, thanks

>

> Southside Ed

[Guest guest]

Does medical science understand why this family of antibiotics seems

to help?

At what point do doctors usually feel it's necessary to go this

route? (I'm new to this disease and want to know what to look for

down the road.)

Thanks,

Diane C

> >

> > -I have followed this anibiotic approach for a while and

> > I am hopeful as you are that this might be [part of the answer,

> > the only problem I have is what happens when the body buils a

> > resistance to the antibiotic? which is precisely why

> > medics are advising against the overuse. I'm sure this has

> > been taken into consideration and would like to hear more,

> > I plan to ask my rheumy at my next visit, thanks

> >

> > Southside Ed

[Guest guest]

yes, go to roadback.org and read the book " the new arthritis breakthrough " .

[Guest guest]

Diane,

Most doctors do not acknowledge the ability of the tetracycline

family of antibiotics to help with arthritis at all - just as they

didn't acknowledge the fact that most ulcers were caused by the

bacteria " H. pylori " until years after it had been proven beyond a

shadow of a doubt. There is a growing body of studies that indicate

antibiotics do help with arthritis, but not enough to convince

everyone. For more information on the use of antibiotics for

arthritis, and for information on the two different views as to why

it helps, please do the following:

1. Read " The New Arthritis Breakthrough " by Henry Scammell (ISBN 0-

87131-843-1)

2. Visit either http://www.rheumatic.org/ or http://roadback.org/

3. Participate in the " rheumatic " forum at

rheumatic which is a forum specifically

for people who treat their rheumatic diseases with antibiotics.

-- Ron

> Does medical science understand why this family of antibiotics

> seems to help?

>

> At what point do doctors usually feel it's necessary to go this

> route? (I'm new to this disease and want to know what to look for

> down the road.)

> Thanks,

> Diane C

[Guest guest]

My RD has explained to me that the main stream view on this is that the

tetracycline family drugs work on PA similar to the way that sulfasalsine does

(though not as well) which is also an antibiotic. Though the mechanism of

action is different in each case these drugs are not being used as antibiotics.

Both classes of drugs have strong disease modifying and anti-inflammatory

secondary characteristics that are useful in some people. There has been no

verifiable pathogen identified to cause these diseases except in the rare case

of reactive arthritis. The massive die offs and byproducts supposedly

responsible for the famous and popular herx effect have not been identified. In

his opinion antibiotic therapy is more religion than science. It will help some

people. Especially if you believe it will. I tend to keep a more open mind. I

tried it without any long term benefit. I did see a lot of wellness clinics,

exotic test mills and authors writing padded books making quite a bit of cash

off a little bit of truth. RGDS R.E.

[ ] Re: antibiotic therapy

Does medical science understand why this family of antibiotics seems

to help?

At what point do doctors usually feel it's necessary to go this

route? (I'm new to this disease and want to know what to look for

down the road.)

Thanks,

Diane C

> >

> > -I have followed this anibiotic approach for a while and

> > I am hopeful as you are that this might be [part of the answer,

> > the only problem I have is what happens when the body buils a

> > resistance to the antibiotic? which is precisely why

> > medics are advising against the overuse. I'm sure this has

> > been taken into consideration and would like to hear more,

> > I plan to ask my rheumy at my next visit, thanks

> >

> > Southside Ed

[Guest guest]

> My RD has explained... In his opinion antibiotic therapy is more

religion than science. It will help some people. Especially if you

believe it will. I tend to keep a more open mind. I tried it

without any long term benefit. I did see a lot of wellness clinics,

exotic test mills and authors writing padded books making quite a bit

of cash off a little bit of truth. RGDS R.E.

Hi, Ron- I know you did not have exciting results with antibiotic

therapy when you tried it, and it is certainly very true that many

rheumatologists are not yet convinced. Unfortunately there are as

yot

no controlled studies for PA. But there are now eight for RA showing

effectiveness, including a new one that just announced its results.

This was a two year, double-blind study (the best kind, where neither

the doctors nor the patients know who is getting the drug until it's

all over). Included below is the summary of the results, comparing

antibiotic therapy with a standard DMARD. The antibiotic worked

significantly better. This is science, not religion. As for

expense,

I spend $7 every other month for my supply of doxycycline, prescribed

by by my GP. One of the biggest reasons this therapy is not well

strongly promoted, I believe, is that it is dirt cheap: there's no

big

money in it for the drug companies that hype new, tremendously

expensive treatments to doctors and patients. I believe strongly

that

most doctors are really trying their best for their patients, but it

is a fact that most of their information after medical school comes

from drug companies, and they are literally bombarded by this

advertising. Well, enough. here;s the study summary- the other older

ones are described at the roadback.org site.

Best regards, Greenly

:Treatment of early seropositive rheumatoid arthritis: a two-year,

double-blind comparison

of minocycline and hydroxychloroquine.

O'Dell JR, Blakely KW, Mallek JA, Eckhoff PJ, Leff RD, Wees SJ, Sems

KM,

Fernandez AM, Palmer WR, Klassen LW, sen GA, Haire CE, GF.

University of Nebraska Medical Center, Omaha 68198-3025, USA.

jrodell@...

OBJECTIVE: To compare the efficacy of minocycline with that of a

conventional

disease-modifying antirheumatic drug (DMARD), hydroxychloroquine, in

patients with

early seropositive rheumatoid arthritis (RA). METHODS: Sixty patients

with seropositive

RA of <1 year's duration who had not been previously treated with

DMARDs were

randomized to receive minocycline, 100 mg twice per day, or

hydroxychloroquine, 200

mg twice per day, in a 2-year, double-blind protocol. All patients

also received low-dose

prednisone. The primary end points of the study were 1) the

percentage

of patients with

an American College of Rheumatology (ACR) 50% improvement (ACR50)

response at 2

years, and 2) the dosage of prednisone at 2 years. RESULTS:

Minocycline-treated

patients were more likely to achieve an ACR50 response at 2 years

compared with

hydroxychloroquine-treated patients (60% compared with 33%,

respectively; P = 0.04).

Minocycline-treated patients were also receiving less prednisone at 2

years compared with

the hydroxychloroquine group (mean 0.81 mg/day compared with 3.21 mg/

day,

respectively; P < 0.01). In addition, patients treated with

minocycline were more likely to

have been completely tapered off prednisone (P = 0.03). Trends

favoring the minocycline

treatment group were seen when outcomes were assessed according to

components of the

ACR core criteria set, with the differences reaching statistical

significance for patient's

global assessment of disease activity (P = 0.004). CONCLUSION:

Minocycline is an

effective DMARD in patients with early seropositive RA. Patients

treated with

minocycline were more likely to achieve an ACR50 response and did so

while receiving

less prednisone. In addition, minocycline-treated patients were more

likely to have

discontinued treatment with prednisone at 2 years.

PMID: 11665963 [PubMed - in process]

[Guest guest]

In addition there are over 200 documented studies where antibiotics

(tetracycline, doxycycline, & minocycline) provided either remission or

significant long term improvement in people with arthritis. No other

treatment has ever proven remission and / or long term improvement.

While it may not work for everyone, it has a far better success rate than

anything else, no long term side effects, and like john said it is

inexpensive. I've tried all of the conventional treatments with no success

or only short term success. I started minocycline 4 months ago and have

gotten my life back. I'm playing Ice Hockey and golf again, fixing up my

house, feeling better all the time, and my arthritis has stopped progressing.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/09/2001 8:00:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,

paulking11@... writes:

<< I'm playing Ice Hockey and golf again >>

- I can't imagine playing hockey with PA, especially if you are in a

checking league! One good hit would probably knock me into a flare LOL.

(however, being female I don't want to play hockey anyhow - just love to

watch it - GO FLYERS!!)

[Guest guest]

Yes it's a checking league, many of the people who play are old pros so it's

pretty competitive. The Bruins rule the NHL.

[Guest guest]

Jim,

What levels of Tetracycline are you taking ? For how long? How long to first

see results? Is Tetra all that you are taking ? How are your teeth ? And any

side effects and how severe ? Thanks Debbie

[Guest guest]

rheumatic Antibiotic therapy

Valdino e ,

eu encontrei o seguinte website que responde a perguntas sobre a terapia

antibiótica na língua portugese. Eu espero que ajude.

Valdino and ,

I found the following website that answers questions about antibiotic therapy in

the portugese language. I hope it helps.

Kelli

http://rheumatic.org/faq_port.htm

_____

[Guest guest]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for sharing your experience with antibiotics. I'm especially

interested in hearing from anyone else who has tried the protocol

(with or without success). I'm thinking of trying it next (if the

Sulfasalazine I just started taking doesn't help).

Sharon

>

>

> Hi Folks,

>

> Glad to hear that the Antibiotic Therapy is treating so many of you

so

> well. Greenly- my friend, it is especially gratifying to hear

> that you are still doing so well with this treatment. Your

insightful

> posts convinced me to give antibiotics a try, and they have greatly

> improved the quality of my life. I don't visit the board as

frequently

> these days since my condition keeps getting better.

>

> My Story: I was diagnosed with Psoriatic Arthritis about 8 years

ago

> but feel that I have had this condition for well over 10 years.

> Initially, the arthritis impacted the smaller joints of several

> fingers and toes, but began to spread to my wrists and ankles about

a

> year ago. Up until last summer I was able to control the swelling

and

> pain with a number of different NSAIDS. By July 2001, I knew that I

> needed to change the medication in order to arrest this disease. My

> rheumatologist kept edging me towards DMARDS (MTX) in particular,

but

> I never felt that this was the best method for my body.

>

> In August 2001, I began taking 100mg minocin, three times per week

in

> addition to 200mg of celebrex 2xs per day. The results have been

very

> impressive. My energy level has greatly increased and I've been

able

> to indulge in physical activity that has been off limits for some

> time. I'd estimate that my arthritis has improved about 70%. The

> antibiotics have not had an impact on the psoriasis.

>

> Over the past year I have tinkered with the dose of minocin to find

> the best amount for my body. For the past several months I have

been

> taking 100mg minocin M-F, as well as 200mg of celebrex 2xs per day.

> This seems to work the best for me. Hopefully in the future I'll be

> able to lower the dose to 3xs per week and completely stop the

> celebrex.

>

> As far as medicine goes, I know that one size doesn't fit all.

> Antibiotics may not be effective for everyone but they have

certainly

> been very beneficial for me. For anyone who is interested in

learning

> more about the Antibiotic Therapy, I have the following advice.

>

> 1. Purchase a copy of The New Arthritis Breakthrough by Henry

> Scammell.

> 2. Visit the site www.roadback.org

> 3. Be patient with this treatment. The results occur slowly over

time.

>

> Wishing you the very best.

>

> Joe Godfrey

[Guest guest]

Happy Easter everyone. I was on DMARDS including Methotrexate for

almost 4 years. I stopped it on 2/8/08 due to lung infection and

ineffectivness after being on it so long.

I found out about taking Minocycline which is an antibiotic. I have

been completely pain free for about two weeks since starting it, which

is the first time I have not had ANY RA symptoms or pains in almost 6

years of having RA.

I hope everyone looks into the therapy. I wish someone had told me

about it when I was first diagnosed. Research on the computer.

I don't even take any NSAIDS anymore. I am so thrilled to have my life

back; I just want to share.

If I can answer or help anyone and you want to write personally please

do, I will do whatever I can to help you.

Enjoy the day,

Diane

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH,DIANE!!!! i will LOOK into the web site,most definetly..

did i ask how long were you on the pred.(i HATE that lil white pill)? also do

have a SPECIAL e-mail to chat on line? i would LOVE to chat with you some time.

god bless,melyndagamez 3/24/08 10:25p.m.central

[ ] ANTIBIOTIC THERAPY

>

> Happy Easter everyone. I was on DMARDS including Methotrexate for

> almost 4 years. I stopped it on 2/8/08 due to lung infection and

> ineffectivness after being on it so long.

> I found out about taking Minocycline which is an antibiotic. I

have

> been completely pain free for about two weeks since starting it,

which

> is the first time I have not had ANY RA symptoms or pains in almost

6

> years of having RA.

> I hope everyone looks into the therapy. I wish someone had told me

> about it when I was first diagnosed. Research on the computer.

> I don't even take any NSAIDS anymore. I am so thrilled to have my

life

> back; I just want to share.

>

> If I can answer or help anyone and you want to write personally

please

> do, I will do whatever I can to help you.

>

> Enjoy the day,

> Diane

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

Minocycline worked for me for about half a year last year, but its

effectiveness began to taper off to the point that it started making things

worse. It's definitely not a cure-all for everyone.

And, shouldn't anti-inflammatories be the first line?

Minocycline has side effects as well, of course.

" Lukoff " <lukoff@...>

[Guest guest]

Do you have a web link or more info on this as I want to talk to my doctor about

it

Thanks

cattlehorse67@...

[ ] Re: Antibiotic Therapy

I have a severe case of Psoriatic Arthritis that I am successfully

treating with the Harvard Antibiotic Protocol.

[Guest guest]

The web sites that got me on the right track are: http://www.roadback.org and

http://www.rheumatic.org

vinnylid

>

> Do you have a web link or more info on this as I want to talk to my

doctor about it