Another question

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/01 8:46:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,

elizabethtobola@... writes:

<< I take a regular multi not the Atkins - they are too expensive. >>

I take Centrum with Lutein and Hair Nourish from GNC.

[Guest guest]

I take a regular multi-vitamin (currently Centrum Forte), use Half Salt for

potassium and eat all my veggies!

Kirstie

[Guest guest]

I take a regular multi not the Atkins - they are too expensive.

Beth in TX

Jenn wrote:

<<does everyone in here take the Atkins Vitamins three times a day>>

[Guest guest]

I take a regular multi not the Atkins - they are too expensive.

Beth in TX

Jenn wrote:

<<does everyone in here take the Atkins Vitamins three times a day>>

[Guest guest]

Nope I don't remember to take my vitamins alot!!

Cheryl Ü

Ok guys sorry to be a bugger, but does everyone in here take the Atkins Vitamins three times a day. I have not been taking the Atkins vitamins , yet other ones I have but I only take them once a day. Thanks Jenn

[Guest guest]

I take a generic woman's " one a day " from wal-mart.

However when I run out I'm going to switch to their

generic brand of low-carbing vitamins...it's about $10

for the bottle, but it has a lot of good stuff in it.

BB,

SK

--- july31978@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/11/01 8:46:38 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> elizabethtobola@... writes:

>

> << I take a regular multi not the Atkins - they are

> too expensive. >>

>

>

> I take Centrum with Lutein and Hair Nourish from

> GNC.

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I take a generic woman's " one a day " from wal-mart.

However when I run out I'm going to switch to their

generic brand of low-carbing vitamins...it's about $10

for the bottle, but it has a lot of good stuff in it.

BB,

SK

--- july31978@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/11/01 8:46:38 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> elizabethtobola@... writes:

>

> << I take a regular multi not the Atkins - they are

> too expensive. >>

>

>

> I take Centrum with Lutein and Hair Nourish from

> GNC.

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I's ask the chief of Surgery about it and the hospital asminstrator about the Physical theripist changing my doctors schedule. what does your doctor say about all this. The no pain- no gain saying does not apply to someone with RSD...Phaedra

Tonia wrote:

Ok......If a doctor prescribes PT once a week, until my due date, and theTherapist doesn't go by what the doc says, what is a person supposed to do?My OB prescribed PT once a week back on Halloween......unfortunately a weeklater, the therapist I had left for a better paying job closer to home. Iwas stuck with her replacement....who decided not to follow the doctor'sorders the first time I seen her. Instead of the once a week, she decidednot to bother and scheduled me for only once a month, cause I wasn't showingany improvement! Well, I'm not due yet, and today the stupid witchdischarged me today! Her excuse is because I'm not showing any improvements. I've tried to tellher over and over.....I will not show any improvement......the PT is only tokeep what muscle mass I have left, there! but, she's too stupid to realizethat if she'd do a little bit of research, she'd find that out on her own!grrrrrr.I was also told that if the Ortho puts me back in PT on Feb. 20 after thefreezing/numbing block, not to bring the prescription back to them!Is that malpractice???? or what? I'd like to know how the heck she can dothat??Tonia

[Guest guest]

I have appreciated reading all of the answers to my questions, and the pamphlets, and articles. I have had several opinions about our present situation. My husband has had a lapro removal, proton radiation last year and now his PSA has gone from .07 to .65.

I have read of men with PSA's of 200 and 2000. I don't think he has ever had a testosterone test. What are you eating? What vitamins, other than D, which we have begun taking. Has anyone seen a lowering do to something they have done apart from what I have read? I am more than amazed that this is such a mystery disease and I want to figure out some natural cure that three months from now we will see that number lower.

I have him on Vit D, potassium and E, and NO beta-carotene. I have him on selinium. We are taking cod liver oil.

He refuses to limit his diet to fish. Insists on meat and ice cream.

He has started drinking the best scotch. (never had more than a Corona before) and he is smoking cigars. (never before)

Have any of you had a PSA of 65 that went to .003 with ADT? Or 20? Or 200? Is it better to start this early? I mean, this early. Is this early or a late start? As I have said before we have the best oncologist and he has not called us about a concern about this number. He knows us well. That being said, I can also assume that he hasn't seen the results, or is going to wait until the next round.

I have found it quite interesting reading about the different labs. I know the last two tests were sent to mayo clinic. I know our previous ones were done with our doctor at the University of CO, or wherever they send them. He might also know about the differences in the labs, and from now on we should perhaps go back to where he has followed our progress for three years.

Suggestions?

Sally

[Guest guest]

Sally wrote:

> I have appreciated reading all of the answers to my questions,

> and the pamphlets, and articles. I have had several opinions

> about our present situation. My husband has had a lapro

> removal, proton radiation last year and now his PSA has gone

> from .07 to .65.

Sorry to hear that. If neither the surgery nor the radiation

stopped the cancer, the odds are that it had already become

systemic. Apparently that's something that just can't be

detected before treatment when the PSA is low.

> I have read of men with PSA's of 200 and 2000. I don't think he

> has ever had a testosterone test.

If your husband will be starting hormone therapy (Androgen

Deprivation Therapy - ADT), it might be useful to get a

testosterone measure before it starts as a " baseline " .

> What are you eating? What vitamins, other than D, which we have

> begun taking. Has anyone seen a lowering do to something they

> have done apart from what I have read?

The effects of diet on prostate cancer are still very poorly

understood. There have been numerous studies, but they are not

very conclusive. One study will find that a particular dietary

component, such as lycopene, is beneficial, and then another

study finds no benefit.

As far as I can tell, a patient might help himself with a

controlled diet, but the amount of help he gets is limited. Some

supplements that have been recommended include Vitamin D,

selenium (but not much, too much is bad) lycopene (e.g. from

cooked tomatoes), resveratrol (e.g. from red wine), pomegranate

extract, green tea extract, and turmeric. Whether any of them

really work is just impossible to say. Some of them have shown

clear benefit in cell cultures or in mice, but the effect in the

human body is always somewhat different.

> I am more than amazed that this is such a mystery disease and I

> want to figure out some natural cure that three months from now

> we will see that number lower.

As far as I know, no natural cure has yet been discovered.

Again, as far as I know, all of the people promoting natural

cures are essentially quacks.

I personally think that when some supplements have been shown to

be helpful in cell cultures, mice, and maybe humans, and IF THEY

ARE NOT HARMFUL, why not try them. I would not take things which

have not been used safely for years, and I would not take things

that cost a lot of money - because I believe that the higher the

cost, the greater the quack factor.

> He refuses to limit his diet to fish. Insists on meat and ice

> cream.

There was a famous study showing that a low fat diet did reduce

the growth of PSA. The effect was very modest. It's not a cure.

It just slowed the growth of PSA for some percentage of men.

However I suggest that your husband try to find other foods that

he likes just as much and limit his fat intake.

> He has started drinking the best scotch. (never had more than a

> Corona before) and he is smoking cigars. (never before)

I understand. Life is short and a diagnosis of cancer reinforces

the truth of that old maxim.

I think that your husband is right to do things that he enjoys.

However, he should know that, if he takes care of himself and

gets good medical care, there is a very good chance he'll still

be here, and still be symptom free, ten years from now. So tell

him not to burn the candle too brightly all at once. He's still

got a lot of living to do.

Now as far as the Scotch is concerned, I have to admit that I've

been buying better stuff myself now that I've gotten older, but I

just never could get a taste for cigars.

> Have any of you had a PSA of 65 that went to .003 with ADT? Or

> 20? Or 200? Is it better to start this early? I mean, this

> early. Is this early or a late start? As I have said before we

> have the best oncologist and he has not called us about a

> concern about this number. He knows us well. That being said, I

> can also assume that he hasn't seen the results, or is going to

> wait until the next round.

I have a friend whose PSA went from 500 to below 1 on ADT. It

stayed that way for about a year, then began to climb.

My own radiation oncologist told me that the latest evidence

showed that early ADT provides longer life extension than late

ADT. I think the reason is that it's easer to control a small

cancer than a big one. Some oncologists have suggested starting

ADT if the PSA rises to 4.0, some have said 2.0. Some have said

to start it as soon as the PSA begins rising.

There is a view by some specialists, including the famous Dr.

Walsh in his book written about 10 years ago, that there is no

reason to start ADT until the patient has a high PSA, e.g., 40 or

50 or more, and might be facing symptoms without it. However it

is my understanding that that view no longer represents the

medical consensus.

....

> Suggestions?

You're doing all the right things. You're asking questions,

looking at diet, considering when to try ADT, and so on. That's

very good. You're already way ahead of a lot of people.

There is a man on another prostate group that I follow closely

who got on ADT while his PSA was still below 1.0. That was about

seven years ago and his PSA is still below 1.0. In fact, it's

very near undetectable.

ADT changes things. It's a real libido killer. It can cause

weight gain, some reduction in energy, hot flushes, joint pain

and bone density reduction. On the other hand, it can really

stop the growth of the cancer, and if the patient eats right and

exercises, and if necessary gets a little help from his doctor,

he can mitigate many of the side effects. There are lots of guys

on this list and off it who are enjoying great lives after years

on ADT.

I wish you and your husband the best of luck.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Sally wrote:

> I have appreciated reading all of the answers to my questions,

> and the pamphlets, and articles. I have had several opinions

> about our present situation. My husband has had a lapro

> removal, proton radiation last year and now his PSA has gone

> from .07 to .65.

Sorry to hear that. If neither the surgery nor the radiation

stopped the cancer, the odds are that it had already become

systemic. Apparently that's something that just can't be

detected before treatment when the PSA is low.

> I have read of men with PSA's of 200 and 2000. I don't think he

> has ever had a testosterone test.

If your husband will be starting hormone therapy (Androgen

Deprivation Therapy - ADT), it might be useful to get a

testosterone measure before it starts as a " baseline " .

> What are you eating? What vitamins, other than D, which we have

> begun taking. Has anyone seen a lowering do to something they

> have done apart from what I have read?

The effects of diet on prostate cancer are still very poorly

understood. There have been numerous studies, but they are not

very conclusive. One study will find that a particular dietary

component, such as lycopene, is beneficial, and then another

study finds no benefit.

As far as I can tell, a patient might help himself with a

controlled diet, but the amount of help he gets is limited. Some

supplements that have been recommended include Vitamin D,

selenium (but not much, too much is bad) lycopene (e.g. from

cooked tomatoes), resveratrol (e.g. from red wine), pomegranate

extract, green tea extract, and turmeric. Whether any of them

really work is just impossible to say. Some of them have shown

clear benefit in cell cultures or in mice, but the effect in the

human body is always somewhat different.

> I am more than amazed that this is such a mystery disease and I

> want to figure out some natural cure that three months from now

> we will see that number lower.

As far as I know, no natural cure has yet been discovered.

Again, as far as I know, all of the people promoting natural

cures are essentially quacks.

I personally think that when some supplements have been shown to

be helpful in cell cultures, mice, and maybe humans, and IF THEY

ARE NOT HARMFUL, why not try them. I would not take things which

have not been used safely for years, and I would not take things

that cost a lot of money - because I believe that the higher the

cost, the greater the quack factor.

> He refuses to limit his diet to fish. Insists on meat and ice

> cream.

There was a famous study showing that a low fat diet did reduce

the growth of PSA. The effect was very modest. It's not a cure.

It just slowed the growth of PSA for some percentage of men.

However I suggest that your husband try to find other foods that

he likes just as much and limit his fat intake.

> He has started drinking the best scotch. (never had more than a

> Corona before) and he is smoking cigars. (never before)

I understand. Life is short and a diagnosis of cancer reinforces

the truth of that old maxim.

I think that your husband is right to do things that he enjoys.

However, he should know that, if he takes care of himself and

gets good medical care, there is a very good chance he'll still

be here, and still be symptom free, ten years from now. So tell

him not to burn the candle too brightly all at once. He's still

got a lot of living to do.

Now as far as the Scotch is concerned, I have to admit that I've

been buying better stuff myself now that I've gotten older, but I

just never could get a taste for cigars.

> Have any of you had a PSA of 65 that went to .003 with ADT? Or

> 20? Or 200? Is it better to start this early? I mean, this

> early. Is this early or a late start? As I have said before we

> have the best oncologist and he has not called us about a

> concern about this number. He knows us well. That being said, I

> can also assume that he hasn't seen the results, or is going to

> wait until the next round.

I have a friend whose PSA went from 500 to below 1 on ADT. It

stayed that way for about a year, then began to climb.

My own radiation oncologist told me that the latest evidence

showed that early ADT provides longer life extension than late

ADT. I think the reason is that it's easer to control a small

cancer than a big one. Some oncologists have suggested starting

ADT if the PSA rises to 4.0, some have said 2.0. Some have said

to start it as soon as the PSA begins rising.

There is a view by some specialists, including the famous Dr.

Walsh in his book written about 10 years ago, that there is no

reason to start ADT until the patient has a high PSA, e.g., 40 or

50 or more, and might be facing symptoms without it. However it

is my understanding that that view no longer represents the

medical consensus.

....

> Suggestions?

You're doing all the right things. You're asking questions,

looking at diet, considering when to try ADT, and so on. That's

very good. You're already way ahead of a lot of people.

There is a man on another prostate group that I follow closely

who got on ADT while his PSA was still below 1.0. That was about

seven years ago and his PSA is still below 1.0. In fact, it's

very near undetectable.

ADT changes things. It's a real libido killer. It can cause

weight gain, some reduction in energy, hot flushes, joint pain

and bone density reduction. On the other hand, it can really

stop the growth of the cancer, and if the patient eats right and

exercises, and if necessary gets a little help from his doctor,

he can mitigate many of the side effects. There are lots of guys

on this list and off it who are enjoying great lives after years

on ADT.

I wish you and your husband the best of luck.

Alan

[Guest guest]

Sally wrote:

> I have appreciated reading all of the answers to my questions,

> and the pamphlets, and articles. I have had several opinions

> about our present situation. My husband has had a lapro

> removal, proton radiation last year and now his PSA has gone

> from .07 to .65.

Sorry to hear that. If neither the surgery nor the radiation

stopped the cancer, the odds are that it had already become

systemic. Apparently that's something that just can't be

detected before treatment when the PSA is low.

> I have read of men with PSA's of 200 and 2000. I don't think he

> has ever had a testosterone test.

If your husband will be starting hormone therapy (Androgen

Deprivation Therapy - ADT), it might be useful to get a

testosterone measure before it starts as a " baseline " .

> What are you eating? What vitamins, other than D, which we have

> begun taking. Has anyone seen a lowering do to something they

> have done apart from what I have read?

The effects of diet on prostate cancer are still very poorly

understood. There have been numerous studies, but they are not

very conclusive. One study will find that a particular dietary

component, such as lycopene, is beneficial, and then another

study finds no benefit.

As far as I can tell, a patient might help himself with a

controlled diet, but the amount of help he gets is limited. Some

supplements that have been recommended include Vitamin D,

selenium (but not much, too much is bad) lycopene (e.g. from

cooked tomatoes), resveratrol (e.g. from red wine), pomegranate

extract, green tea extract, and turmeric. Whether any of them

really work is just impossible to say. Some of them have shown

clear benefit in cell cultures or in mice, but the effect in the

human body is always somewhat different.

> I am more than amazed that this is such a mystery disease and I

> want to figure out some natural cure that three months from now

> we will see that number lower.

As far as I know, no natural cure has yet been discovered.

Again, as far as I know, all of the people promoting natural

cures are essentially quacks.

I personally think that when some supplements have been shown to

be helpful in cell cultures, mice, and maybe humans, and IF THEY

ARE NOT HARMFUL, why not try them. I would not take things which

have not been used safely for years, and I would not take things

that cost a lot of money - because I believe that the higher the

cost, the greater the quack factor.

> He refuses to limit his diet to fish. Insists on meat and ice

> cream.

There was a famous study showing that a low fat diet did reduce

the growth of PSA. The effect was very modest. It's not a cure.

It just slowed the growth of PSA for some percentage of men.

However I suggest that your husband try to find other foods that

he likes just as much and limit his fat intake.

> He has started drinking the best scotch. (never had more than a

> Corona before) and he is smoking cigars. (never before)

I understand. Life is short and a diagnosis of cancer reinforces

the truth of that old maxim.

I think that your husband is right to do things that he enjoys.

However, he should know that, if he takes care of himself and

gets good medical care, there is a very good chance he'll still

be here, and still be symptom free, ten years from now. So tell

him not to burn the candle too brightly all at once. He's still

got a lot of living to do.

Now as far as the Scotch is concerned, I have to admit that I've

been buying better stuff myself now that I've gotten older, but I

just never could get a taste for cigars.

> Have any of you had a PSA of 65 that went to .003 with ADT? Or

> 20? Or 200? Is it better to start this early? I mean, this

> early. Is this early or a late start? As I have said before we

> have the best oncologist and he has not called us about a

> concern about this number. He knows us well. That being said, I

> can also assume that he hasn't seen the results, or is going to

> wait until the next round.

I have a friend whose PSA went from 500 to below 1 on ADT. It

stayed that way for about a year, then began to climb.

My own radiation oncologist told me that the latest evidence

showed that early ADT provides longer life extension than late

ADT. I think the reason is that it's easer to control a small

cancer than a big one. Some oncologists have suggested starting

ADT if the PSA rises to 4.0, some have said 2.0. Some have said

to start it as soon as the PSA begins rising.

There is a view by some specialists, including the famous Dr.

Walsh in his book written about 10 years ago, that there is no

reason to start ADT until the patient has a high PSA, e.g., 40 or

50 or more, and might be facing symptoms without it. However it

is my understanding that that view no longer represents the

medical consensus.

....

> Suggestions?

You're doing all the right things. You're asking questions,

looking at diet, considering when to try ADT, and so on. That's

very good. You're already way ahead of a lot of people.

There is a man on another prostate group that I follow closely

who got on ADT while his PSA was still below 1.0. That was about

seven years ago and his PSA is still below 1.0. In fact, it's

very near undetectable.

ADT changes things. It's a real libido killer. It can cause

weight gain, some reduction in energy, hot flushes, joint pain

and bone density reduction. On the other hand, it can really

stop the growth of the cancer, and if the patient eats right and

exercises, and if necessary gets a little help from his doctor,

he can mitigate many of the side effects. There are lots of guys

on this list and off it who are enjoying great lives after years

on ADT.

I wish you and your husband the best of luck.

Alan