Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Steve In the UK you can have the choice - if you are in a private insurance scheme or can pay. B Re: Re: Health Care reform > Once upon a time, In Canada, we had a Provincial leader (Minister) who > smoked his life away.> > When he got sick, he could not place himself at the top of the list for > treatment in Canada, so he went to the USA and paid part of his > millions to place himself at the top of the list down there. He died > anyway.> > What is the moral of this story, if true?.........I'm glad we did not > have to pay for his bad habit. ByeHow callous.So he smoked. So what? Should he have to face the horrors that I guarantee he did face because he was somehow a "sinner?"Lawn fertilizer.The point, as admitted by Emile, is that the Minister could not, could *not*, obtain the same level of competent medical care in Canada that he could obtain in the USA.There are no treatment "lists" (as established by government clerks) in the USA. As I know very well from personal experience, such atrocities simply do not happen.Yet.We'll see what happens after January 20.The controlling factor is the schedule of the individual medic.*Anecdote Alert* After I fired my rad onc (one of the most satisfying letters I've ever written), I alone and without any referral, hired my med onc.The point is this: *WE* are in charge.And is the treatment "free?" Of course not. The taxpayers fund the system, whether they wish to or not. The basic philosophy is this: TANSTAAFL, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Something that True Believers in Socialist Nostrums truly believe, facts to the contrary notwithstanding.Never forget: Government consists in *force*, whatever its public relations face, *force*.Regards,Steve JSantayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."Updating Santayana:"Those who cannot remember the past are a highly-sought-after voting bloc" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Steve In the UK you can have the choice - if you are in a private insurance scheme or can pay. B Re: Re: Health Care reform > Once upon a time, In Canada, we had a Provincial leader (Minister) who > smoked his life away.> > When he got sick, he could not place himself at the top of the list for > treatment in Canada, so he went to the USA and paid part of his > millions to place himself at the top of the list down there. He died > anyway.> > What is the moral of this story, if true?.........I'm glad we did not > have to pay for his bad habit. ByeHow callous.So he smoked. So what? Should he have to face the horrors that I guarantee he did face because he was somehow a "sinner?"Lawn fertilizer.The point, as admitted by Emile, is that the Minister could not, could *not*, obtain the same level of competent medical care in Canada that he could obtain in the USA.There are no treatment "lists" (as established by government clerks) in the USA. As I know very well from personal experience, such atrocities simply do not happen.Yet.We'll see what happens after January 20.The controlling factor is the schedule of the individual medic.*Anecdote Alert* After I fired my rad onc (one of the most satisfying letters I've ever written), I alone and without any referral, hired my med onc.The point is this: *WE* are in charge.And is the treatment "free?" Of course not. The taxpayers fund the system, whether they wish to or not. The basic philosophy is this: TANSTAAFL, There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Something that True Believers in Socialist Nostrums truly believe, facts to the contrary notwithstanding.Never forget: Government consists in *force*, whatever its public relations face, *force*.Regards,Steve JSantayana: "Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it."Updating Santayana:"Those who cannot remember the past are a highly-sought-after voting bloc" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Single-Payer Health Care: If Not Now, When? >> "I do not know of any such system for the "little people".> > http://www.hr676.org> > > "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway> > Re: Health Care reform> > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the "little people".> > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Single-Payer Health Care: If Not Now, When? >> "I do not know of any such system for the "little people".> > http://www.hr676.org> > > "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway> > Re: Health Care reform> > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the "little people".> > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo.> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Unfortunately, the post below appears to repeat one of the myths put forth by those opposing single payer health care based on their personal ideology rather than facts. THE FACTS: Members of Congress have the same health insurance as all Federal employees, a very efficient system called the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). It is not "free". Enrollees can select from a number of private insurance programs, including both HMOs and fee-for-service. Part of the cost is covered by the employer (the Federal government) and part by the employee. The employee share varies with the program selected and whether or not coverage includes just the individual or the family, usually between 25 and 30 percent of the total cost. There are deductable amounts and copays for all covered services, again dependent upon the company and program selected. Doctor availability depends upon the specific private program selected; whether a HMO or fee-for-service and the details of the specific preferred provider lists. Participating companies have to meet price and service criteria of the Office of Personnel Managment, which keeps the costs relatively low. Unlike many employer health insurance programs, the standard FEHBP insurance does not include dental or eyecare. Thus this insurance program consists of PRIVATE insurance companies whose costs and coverages are REGULATED by the FEHB program. The Federal regulation keeps the charges of the participating insurance programs reasonable. May I respectfully suggest that if the lending industry was regulated like the insurance companies in this program, we would not be in the current fiscal "deep doo doo." The Best to You and Yours! Jon in Nevada > > > > >> > > > > The Obama Transition Team is looking for input on potential > > health> > > > care> > > > > reform. ACOR has set up a discussion list with a survey > > available> > > for> > > > > completion by members of the cancer community.> > > > >> > > > > You can fill in the survey at:> > > > >> > > > > <http://acor.org/town-hall/survey.html>> > > > > http://acor.org/town-hall/survey.html> > > > >> > > > > You can also directly take part in the process by going to> > > > > http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory and share your story and > what> > > your> > > > issues> > > > > related to your cancer experience or those in your life. > Some> > > examples> > > > that> > > > > you might want to discuss are research funding, access to > > prostate> > > > cancer> > > > > screening, access to treatment, etc.> > > > >> > > > > You can read some of the input that the transition team has > > received> > > > about> > > > > healthcare reform by going to this link> > > > > http://change.gov/open_government/yourseatatthetable/C21/.> > > > >> > > > > If you have not already participated your time is limited > so > > take> > > part> > > > now.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Kathy> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Unfortunately, the post below appears to repeat one of the myths put forth by those opposing single payer health care based on their personal ideology rather than facts. THE FACTS: Members of Congress have the same health insurance as all Federal employees, a very efficient system called the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). It is not "free". Enrollees can select from a number of private insurance programs, including both HMOs and fee-for-service. Part of the cost is covered by the employer (the Federal government) and part by the employee. The employee share varies with the program selected and whether or not coverage includes just the individual or the family, usually between 25 and 30 percent of the total cost. There are deductable amounts and copays for all covered services, again dependent upon the company and program selected. Doctor availability depends upon the specific private program selected; whether a HMO or fee-for-service and the details of the specific preferred provider lists. Participating companies have to meet price and service criteria of the Office of Personnel Managment, which keeps the costs relatively low. Unlike many employer health insurance programs, the standard FEHBP insurance does not include dental or eyecare. Thus this insurance program consists of PRIVATE insurance companies whose costs and coverages are REGULATED by the FEHB program. The Federal regulation keeps the charges of the participating insurance programs reasonable. May I respectfully suggest that if the lending industry was regulated like the insurance companies in this program, we would not be in the current fiscal "deep doo doo." The Best to You and Yours! Jon in Nevada > > > > >> > > > > The Obama Transition Team is looking for input on potential > > health> > > > care> > > > > reform. ACOR has set up a discussion list with a survey > > available> > > for> > > > > completion by members of the cancer community.> > > > >> > > > > You can fill in the survey at:> > > > >> > > > > <http://acor.org/town-hall/survey.html>> > > > > http://acor.org/town-hall/survey.html> > > > >> > > > > You can also directly take part in the process by going to> > > > > http://change.gov/page/s/yourstory and share your story and > what> > > your> > > > issues> > > > > related to your cancer experience or those in your life. > Some> > > examples> > > > that> > > > > you might want to discuss are research funding, access to > > prostate> > > > cancer> > > > > screening, access to treatment, etc.> > > > >> > > > > You can read some of the input that the transition team has > > received> > > > about> > > > > healthcare reform by going to this link> > > > > http://change.gov/open_government/yourseatatthetable/C21/.> > > > >> > > > > If you have not already participated your time is limited > so > > take> > > part> > > > now.> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Kathy> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Absolutely right again, this health care system we have in America is absoutely terrible once you get sick. I have 12 years to go to get on Medicare or until Obama gives me health insurance not tied to any job, whichever comes first. I hope I stay healthy long enough to not lose my house. Our system of health care is so indefensible if you think about it for about 5 minutes......Alan Meyer wrote: > 5 years ago my wife had a Breast lumpectomy, and previous to> that, a biopsy. Both outpatient procedures cost just over> $9000. We seen the tally. When medicare paid the hospital,> they accepted just under $400 for each procedure. That> indicates to me that somebody fills his pockets.I'm not sure whether you're saying that you were billed for$9,000 or $18,000, but either way, the fact that the hospitalaccepted $800 from Medicare indicates that billing is 100%unfair and irrational.If you did not have insurance from Medicare or a private insureryou would have been forced to pay $9,000 (or $18,000) for whatwas manifestly an $800 medical service. If you did not pay,there is a very good chance that you would have been sued.Since you almost certainly were forced to sign a statementsaying that you were financially responsible in order to get anyservice at all, it's very likely that the hospital would havewon the lawsuit and extracted 11 or 22 times the actual cost ofthe service from you.If it came to that, I would personally prefer to pay anadditional $13,000 or even more in taxes than to pay the $13,000I currently pay to my HMO for medical insurance. I would thenknow that the amount I paid was tied to my income taxes. If myincome dropped, my payment would drop too. If I becamedestitute, I'd still get medical insurance. If my HMOdisappeared, I'd still get medical insurance.In an earlier post I said that I might not be able to getinsurance if my current insurer dropped me, but it's actuallyworse than that. Since my insurer only operates in a fewstates, I also can't move. For example, if I would like toretire in Florida, I can't do it because my HMO doesn't operatein Florida and I don't think I could get medical insurance fromanyone else. The insurance companies just don't want old guys,and especially don't want old guys who have had cancer. My onlysavior on that is Medicare, which is still 3 years away for me.We like to talk a lot about "free choice" in medical care. Butthe truth is, if we had a national, public, single payer healthinsurance plan, my free choices would expand dramatically. Asit is now, I'm stuck.Those of you who have had cancer that think that privateinsurance gives you free choice are living in fantasy land. Tryto make some other choices and see what happens.Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Absolutely right again, this health care system we have in America is absoutely terrible once you get sick. I have 12 years to go to get on Medicare or until Obama gives me health insurance not tied to any job, whichever comes first. I hope I stay healthy long enough to not lose my house. Our system of health care is so indefensible if you think about it for about 5 minutes......Alan Meyer wrote: > 5 years ago my wife had a Breast lumpectomy, and previous to> that, a biopsy. Both outpatient procedures cost just over> $9000. We seen the tally. When medicare paid the hospital,> they accepted just under $400 for each procedure. That> indicates to me that somebody fills his pockets.I'm not sure whether you're saying that you were billed for$9,000 or $18,000, but either way, the fact that the hospitalaccepted $800 from Medicare indicates that billing is 100%unfair and irrational.If you did not have insurance from Medicare or a private insureryou would have been forced to pay $9,000 (or $18,000) for whatwas manifestly an $800 medical service. If you did not pay,there is a very good chance that you would have been sued.Since you almost certainly were forced to sign a statementsaying that you were financially responsible in order to get anyservice at all, it's very likely that the hospital would havewon the lawsuit and extracted 11 or 22 times the actual cost ofthe service from you.If it came to that, I would personally prefer to pay anadditional $13,000 or even more in taxes than to pay the $13,000I currently pay to my HMO for medical insurance. I would thenknow that the amount I paid was tied to my income taxes. If myincome dropped, my payment would drop too. If I becamedestitute, I'd still get medical insurance. If my HMOdisappeared, I'd still get medical insurance.In an earlier post I said that I might not be able to getinsurance if my current insurer dropped me, but it's actuallyworse than that. Since my insurer only operates in a fewstates, I also can't move. For example, if I would like toretire in Florida, I can't do it because my HMO doesn't operatein Florida and I don't think I could get medical insurance fromanyone else. The insurance companies just don't want old guys,and especially don't want old guys who have had cancer. My onlysavior on that is Medicare, which is still 3 years away for me.We like to talk a lot about "free choice" in medical care. Butthe truth is, if we had a national, public, single payer healthinsurance plan, my free choices would expand dramatically. Asit is now, I'm stuck.Those of you who have had cancer that think that privateinsurance gives you free choice are living in fantasy land. Tryto make some other choices and see what happens.Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I guess I should have said, such a " working system " in place. Sounds good on paper but ...getting it to work as stated, well that is another story. This line scares me, (No corporate bureaucrat will ever come between you and your Doctor to deny your care). It will be worse if a government bureacrat gets involved. > > " I do not know of any such system for the " little people " . > > http://www.hr676.org > > > " il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway > > Re: Health Care reform > > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the " little people " . > > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I guess I should have said, such a " working system " in place. Sounds good on paper but ...getting it to work as stated, well that is another story. This line scares me, (No corporate bureaucrat will ever come between you and your Doctor to deny your care). It will be worse if a government bureacrat gets involved. > > " I do not know of any such system for the " little people " . > > http://www.hr676.org > > > " il faut d'abord durer " Hemingway > > Re: Health Care reform > > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the " little people " . > > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi All:Just to add my 2 cents to this discussion. I am a practicing podiatrist and deal with insurance companies, medicare and medicaid every day. I am no fan of insurance companies. They are concerned with stockholder equity, executive salaries first and the patient is dead last (I can furnish thousands of stories of unfair denials, downcoding of claims, claims that "disappear" once they get to the insurance company, companies that totally disregard their own policies and agreements, etc.). There are a few good ones out there, but in general, the people that work for them are inefficient, poorly trained, and promoted not for competence but for saving the insurance company money (my opinions, as I said I can furnish thousands of examples over the past 25 years of practice). Having said that, a single payer system administered by the government is no panacea. CMS (Center for Medicare Services) outsources management of medicare to local insurance carriers and third party administrators. These companies are free to interpret medicare rules and regs in their own manner. So a patient in Michigan has slightly different benefits than one in Florida, or New Hampshire. Is it fair? Should all beneficiaries be treated the same?Medicare also has contracted out its DME (durable medical equipment) management to third party administrators, and they are the worst!! Unfair denials, lost claims, inappropriate interpretation of the rules are the norm. Physician payments have been frozen for many years. For the same services, I get paid about what I was being paid in 1990. In fact, we were scheduled to have a 9.9% DECREASE for 2009. Why is this? The formula the CMS uses to figure out payments for services is wrong! CMS knows it, congress knows it, the president knows it. And only an act of congress can change it. But congress will not. Why? Because it gives them power. Doctors have to come to them each year pleading for justice. And every time someone tries to fix it, some congressmen try to doctor it with their own special interests, the the bill does not make it out of committee. This year, the president vetoed an attempt for a one-time fix for 2009, and congress had to overturn his veto. So fairness to physicians becomes a political football. And no one in Washington has the guts or the integrity to fix it correctly, so it goes on and on each year. So, as with any government entity, waste, payoffs, bribes, corruption, "special privileges" and behind the scenes shenanigans are always a concern. Having ranted all of the above, would I be in favor of a single payer system. Yes, if it was fair and equitable to every American, didn't squander the extra taxes that we all will have to pay for it, paid physicians fairly and honestly for all their training, education, and commitment to their patients, and was free from special interest, corruption and manipulation. A tall order, I know. Can it be done? Is the present administration the one to do it? Who knows. Thanks for listening, and sorry for the rant. To: ProstateCancerSupport From: photojax69@...Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:48:06 +0000Subject: Re: Health Care reform I guess I should have said, such a "working system" in place. Sounds good on paper but ...getting it to work as stated, well that is another story. This line scares me, (No corporate bureaucrat will ever come between you and your Doctor to deny your care). It will be worse if a government bureacrat gets involved. > > "I do not know of any such system for the "little people". > > http://www.hr676.org > > > "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway > > Re: Health Care reform > > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the "little people". > > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo. > > > It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi All:Just to add my 2 cents to this discussion. I am a practicing podiatrist and deal with insurance companies, medicare and medicaid every day. I am no fan of insurance companies. They are concerned with stockholder equity, executive salaries first and the patient is dead last (I can furnish thousands of stories of unfair denials, downcoding of claims, claims that "disappear" once they get to the insurance company, companies that totally disregard their own policies and agreements, etc.). There are a few good ones out there, but in general, the people that work for them are inefficient, poorly trained, and promoted not for competence but for saving the insurance company money (my opinions, as I said I can furnish thousands of examples over the past 25 years of practice). Having said that, a single payer system administered by the government is no panacea. CMS (Center for Medicare Services) outsources management of medicare to local insurance carriers and third party administrators. These companies are free to interpret medicare rules and regs in their own manner. So a patient in Michigan has slightly different benefits than one in Florida, or New Hampshire. Is it fair? Should all beneficiaries be treated the same?Medicare also has contracted out its DME (durable medical equipment) management to third party administrators, and they are the worst!! Unfair denials, lost claims, inappropriate interpretation of the rules are the norm. Physician payments have been frozen for many years. For the same services, I get paid about what I was being paid in 1990. In fact, we were scheduled to have a 9.9% DECREASE for 2009. Why is this? The formula the CMS uses to figure out payments for services is wrong! CMS knows it, congress knows it, the president knows it. And only an act of congress can change it. But congress will not. Why? Because it gives them power. Doctors have to come to them each year pleading for justice. And every time someone tries to fix it, some congressmen try to doctor it with their own special interests, the the bill does not make it out of committee. This year, the president vetoed an attempt for a one-time fix for 2009, and congress had to overturn his veto. So fairness to physicians becomes a political football. And no one in Washington has the guts or the integrity to fix it correctly, so it goes on and on each year. So, as with any government entity, waste, payoffs, bribes, corruption, "special privileges" and behind the scenes shenanigans are always a concern. Having ranted all of the above, would I be in favor of a single payer system. Yes, if it was fair and equitable to every American, didn't squander the extra taxes that we all will have to pay for it, paid physicians fairly and honestly for all their training, education, and commitment to their patients, and was free from special interest, corruption and manipulation. A tall order, I know. Can it be done? Is the present administration the one to do it? Who knows. Thanks for listening, and sorry for the rant. To: ProstateCancerSupport From: photojax69@...Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:48:06 +0000Subject: Re: Health Care reform I guess I should have said, such a "working system" in place. Sounds good on paper but ...getting it to work as stated, well that is another story. This line scares me, (No corporate bureaucrat will ever come between you and your Doctor to deny your care). It will be worse if a government bureacrat gets involved. > > "I do not know of any such system for the "little people". > > http://www.hr676.org > > > "il faut d'abord durer" Hemingway > > Re: Health Care reform > > > > Do not think that with government run health insurance that you will > > have the same care that congress gets. Congress members can see a > > doctor with no appointment and get the best care at no cost to them, > > just us. I do not know of any such system for the "little people". > > If congress oversees health care like they did the lending industry > > we will be in deep doo doo. > > > It’s the same Hotmail®. If by “same” you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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